An Early Thanksgiving
Let me count the ways I am grateful:
I’m delighted that the federal budget deficit this year is a mere $296 billion and not $423 billion.
I’m pleased that this is only the fourth biggest deficit in American history and not the second biggest.
I’m thankful that this deficit has been run up so that the top 1% of the wealthy has benefitted from tax cuts, and not just the top 1/2%.
I’m happy that job creation this month was only 30,000 short of what’s needed to meet population growth and not 60,000 less.
I’m impressed that the unemployment rate, as currently creatively calculated by the Labor Department is listed as 4.6% and not closer to 7% as reality would have it.
I’m delerious that gasoline in Los Angeles only costs $3.45 a gallon and not $5.43.
It was wonderful to read that car insurance in So Cal might soon drop around 7% and cost the average driver only about $1500 a month.
I’m proud to live in a country where adequate family health insurance only costs about $10,000 a year instead of $110,000.
A minimum wage of $5.15 an hour (not enough to buy health insurance) is a lot better than chattel slavery.
It’s great that the war in Iraq only costs about $2 billion a week and not $2 billion a day.
College tuition is a great deal at $36,000 a year when you think it could cost $65,000.
I’m happy that George W. Bush is President and Dick Cheney isn’t.
What more could I ask for?
July 12th, 2006 at 12:25 am
Who cares. The top 1% still pay an enormous amount of tax.
You want job creation ? Then get rid of the minimum wage, that will create a whole array of new jobs.
As for gasoline prices and car insurance costs.. let me think for a while… somehow it must be evil George Bush’s fault.
July 12th, 2006 at 12:41 am
You know, I wonder why we usually get cartoon caricature versions of rightwingers on this blog like Jono and Woody and Liberty Dad, instead of intelligent conservatives (I guess GM Roper is ill, he at least is reasonable and shows an ability to think.) The folks we do get give conservatism a bad name, as if all it took to be on the right was to shut off one’s brain.
July 12th, 2006 at 12:54 am
Umm whats so “cartoon caricature” about my arguments ?
I’m not a conservative, I’m a classic liberal. My pro gay-marriage and pro drug-legalisation stance hardly makes me a conservative.
Sure, I threw in a bit of sarcasm towards the end, but the main point that I make is that not all outcomes (high oil prices) can be pinned on government. Its ultimately the behaviour of individuals that determine outcomes.
In fact its usually government interference that exacerbates the problems. There is no logical sense to the minimum wage. All it does is outlaw and hence destroy all forms of employment below a particular wage. Any 2 consenting parties that wish to partake in some employment below that wage risk imprisonment or fines. How any sane person could advocate such an authoritarian role for government is beyond me.
July 12th, 2006 at 3:02 am
I’m grateful I wasn’t riding a train in Mumbai yesterday.
I’m grateful that the sectors of the Left that won’t fight the authors of such atrocities are not in power in this country–yet.
I’m grateful that both the LA Times and the NY Times are in serious economic trouble.
I’m grateful that I have the good sense to stop here.
July 12th, 2006 at 6:00 am
ahhh Marc maybe you are paying $3.45 in Brentwood but I paid $3.15 about an hour ago in City of Commerce. I paid $3.15 a gallon a couple of days ago in Santa Ana.
That’s the only “fact” you supplied that I knew was bogus without having to do some research.
I also know it’s common sense that most people working minimum wage aren’t the head of their household or feeding a family.
But don’t let facts get in your way of a good rant 8).
July 12th, 2006 at 6:07 am
I grateful only 3,000 people died on Sept 11, 2001 and not 6,000.
“I also know it’s common sense that most people working minimum wage aren’t the head of their household or feeding a family.”
No- they’re living in a refrigerator box on the side of the road.
July 12th, 2006 at 7:23 am
I think many people should be grateful that we are communicating on this blog, and that I don’t need to look at them wile I am communicating – and think of how distraught they would be if we were talking face to face….lol.
July 12th, 2006 at 7:30 am
Oh my, we have a “classic liberal” on our hands! Because of his “pro gay-marriage and pro drug-legalisation stance” he’s fulfilled the minimum requirements of the latte liberal crowd. It reminds me of the time I was at a party where a guy outed himself as “an economic conservative…” and then, with the crowd hushed in tense expectation, with a wry grin he added, “…but a social liberal”. Ahh, tres magnifique!
In other words, yes–a caricature.
Now, for someone (an economist, even) who actually has something intelligent to say about the minimum wage:
http://maxspeak.org/mt/archives/002299.html
July 12th, 2006 at 7:39 am
Sigh. And then this chestnut: “I also know it’s common sense that most people working minimum wage aren’t the head of their household or feeding a family.”
Beware the anti-intellectual “common sense” argument! It’s the classic lazy-man’s cure-all for thinking and fact-digging. So much easier to manufacture facts (ah look–”fact” is even an element of the word “manufacture”, further justifying the lazy-man approach) than actually apply some semblance of sound research methods.
So yes, Balter, we have caricature #2. Now when Woody chimes in we’ll get #3: economically “conservative” (always use quotes when referring to Woody’s confused brand of conservatism), socially “conservative”, and universally batty.
For some reason, the smart conservatives avoid this site. Which is unfortunate.
July 12th, 2006 at 9:00 am
Jono,
You’re a libertarian, not a liberal.
July 12th, 2006 at 9:09 am
Whatever Jono is, he cracks me up describing the employer-employee relationship as one between two consenting adults rather than between someone who has a job to offer and someone who has to work to avoid starvation and homelessness.
July 12th, 2006 at 11:06 am
“The folks we do get give conservatism a bad name, as if all it took to be on the right was to shut off one’s brain.”
Amen to that. I think the same thing all the time as I peruse this comments section. I know there are smart, intellectually honest conservative debaters out there, but they certainly are in short supply around here. GM is about the only one who comes close to fitting the description, but even he comes around here with his cool aid breath sometimes. I don’t think it’s asking too much.
Be gone you trolls!
July 12th, 2006 at 11:13 am
What more could you ask for? How about a kleenex, crybaby?
July 12th, 2006 at 11:30 am
Regarding “conservatives” and their “bona fides”, check out this Glenn Greenwald commentary on double standards and hypocrisy that prevail in the right-wing blowhardsphere. A lot of time was spent here on the Great Frisch Fight – which pretty much ended before it began with the perpetrator of some wacko blog comments exposed, recanting and out of an academic job in about 24 hours – and there were some attempts to draw great meaning from it about “liberals”. But apparently right-wing bloggers and authors who issue fantasy death threats aren’t considered persona non grata and get a pass. Indeed, some become millionaires off of these antics. The bar is indeed low for “conservatives” these days. I’d say gutter-level, and I’m not talking about obscure cranks, but quasi-iconic and well-accepted figures among the right-wing crowd, including familiar figures on mainstream media like Coulter and Malkin.
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/07/prominent-right-wing-blogger-today.html
July 12th, 2006 at 11:41 am
Congratulations, Marc! According to Ugly, you’ve moved from your suburban tract deep in the steaming hot valley to a cool mansion in Brentwood! Where’d you get the scratch for that??
(Or maybe you could explain to Ugly why your born-in-the-usa muscle car needs premium gas to feed 350 horses…)
July 12th, 2006 at 11:53 am
Incidentally, the “Misha” mentioned in Greenwald’s blog – a guy who’s reaction to the Supreme Court’s Hamden decision was “5 ropes, 5 robes, 5 trees – some assembly required” is a member of the Wide Awakes Radio thingy along with one of the esteemed conservative commenters who shows up regularly here. My point isn’t to smear anyone with guilt by association, because I know that this approach to “commentary” isn’t shared by our own reliably decent denizen – only to reinforce the fact that this garbage isn’t coming from some completely obscure or isolated entity and to suggest that some house-cleaning might be in order.
July 12th, 2006 at 12:27 pm
One more thing on this – the Dean of Conservative Blogging, Instapundit Prof. Glenn Reynolds’ sole reaction to Greenwald’s charge was linking to another conservative commentator who stated that he refused to disavow or condemn these comments because they were free speech and, after all, mere hyperbole.
I get it. When folks “we” associate with say ugly, deranged things it’s mere hyperbole, but when some crank on the left says ugly stuff, no matter how obscure they might be, it’s time to declare a cause celebre and haul out the hatchets. And, with any luck, oust them from their job.
Well, that line of reasoning certainly works for…uh…them !
July 12th, 2006 at 12:40 pm
Instapundit links some more…to a flurry of righteous folks who attack Greenwald for hysteria. This is really rich. The scumbag quotient is pretty damned high and apparently getting higher. Doncha get it? It’s all a joke and Greenwald’s a gasbag for taking offense at lighthearted hyperbole and comparing it to the potential horrors inflicted on Jeff Goldstein’s family and the attendant hysteria – I mean serious and necessary response to death threats that the rightwing blowhardsphere felt compelled to launch in his defense.
They don’t call ‘em wankers for naught.
July 12th, 2006 at 1:21 pm
Reynolds puts the ass in bombastic.
July 12th, 2006 at 3:18 pm
Well actually Jono is a “liberal” in the classic 19th Century meaning of the term. 19th century liberals, like their 20th century Libertarian counterparts, worship the market and believe that laws like child labor restriction and the minimum wage violate the “right” of “free” labor to contract for their services with employers at a mutually beneficial condition. Yeah right!
“Say Mr Wal Mart, I’lll work for you at 12.50/hr!”
“”No kid $5.15 or hit the road!”
“(sigh) OK!
There you have a typical contract negotiation.
Oh, and of course Jono every economic study has shown no correlation between the minimum wage and job loss. In fact those states with a higher minmium wage have created more jobs and are the most dynamic parts of the economy.
I swear I’m not going to do any more essays on political philosophies. There must be other escaped Government/Poly Sci people here!
July 12th, 2006 at 4:40 pm
Firstly Samuel, that link wasn’t to a real economist at all. You guys have got to be kidding yourself to think that there is no correlation between minimum wage and
unemployment. Let’s push the minimum wage up to $50/hr tomorrow and see.
As for richard – gee if Walmart aren’t willing to offer more than $5.15 per hour to a kid, then are you in favor of government intervening and forcing Walmart to offer a higher wage ? Isn’t it remotely possible that perhaps, just maybe.. hear me out.. Mr Walmart might not be willing to make the offer of employment at the new minimum wage ?
In that case, a job has been destroyed. Ultimately, market forces decide how much a person’s wage should be. It all depends on their marginal productivity to the employer. Government regulation cannot change this reality.
July 12th, 2006 at 4:57 pm
So, is your glass 5/6 empty or 1/6 full?
July 12th, 2006 at 5:23 pm
Jono, you miss the point. The idea that prospective Wal-Mart employee can negotiate the terms of her employment with that company is ludicrous.; Yet that is just what “liberals” like judge Richard Posner argue when he deplores all jurisprudence since the New Deal because it places “barriers” between willing actors and deprives them of the freedom of the marketplace to enter into contracts! And you did not respond to the evidence that minmum wage laws don’t cost jobs.
But I’ll tell you what. I bet the economy would just bloom if we eliminated:
a) mimimum wage laws
b) worker health and safety laws
c) workweek standards – i.e the 40 hour week and overtime
d) child labor laws
e) all zoning and pollution control laws and repeal of the Pure Food and Drug act while we’re at it.
There. Is that your ideal society? Funny. Dickens had a few problems with it as you’ll find out if you read any of his novels. And I’ve previously mentioned Engles but there is also Lincoln Steffens, Upton Sinclair, Nellie Bly and a host of others who wrote about such societies. But go ahead Jono. You argue that that is the ideal society. And wait for the real Leftists on this thread to countdown to revolution!
July 12th, 2006 at 5:47 pm
The Democrats have won a new convert! Just like them, Marc Cooper can only find negative things about our country. That’ll win elections, huh?
It’s too bad for them that most of those problems are not controlled by the President and have been made worse by Democrats. (Exp. Higher gas prices–More dependence on foreign oil and less supply because of opposition to drilling in ANWAR, off the coast of Florida, etc. Also, the Federal tax per gallon is fixed while California’s tax on gas is per dollar and goes up with the higher prices.)
Balter, how sad that you used your entire first comment to attack selected conservatives and rallied your allies rather than address Cooper’s post. Then, you fawned over G.M. Roper–a popular ploy of the left, thinking that it would divide us and that he would fall all over himself for praise from his new friends on the left. That has worked to convert some national conservatives, but they were weak minded and weak willed. Roper is neither of those nor is he stupid. And, I take it as a compliment when the left objects to me and other conservatives. It’s confirmation that we’re doing something right.
I’m thankful that our people look like this rather than this.
July 12th, 2006 at 5:55 pm
Of course most of those “red” counties are empty spaces – rather like Bush, actually, And Woody’ please check Survey USA which is a compendium of polls. You’ll find that Bush is popular only in a few Southern states. The typical Bush supporter is a White Southern Male with a high school education. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. But a majority position it ain’t.
July 12th, 2006 at 6:12 pm
Michael B, John Mc, thanks for the semi-encomium. I’m not to ill to comment most of the time; although there are times when the chem-therapy kicks my butt (but, the good news is only three more treatments to go), I just object to the character assination from some members of the left anytime any person here to the right of center expresses an idea contrary to the left of center’s ideas. For example, reg above says he is not tarring all conservatives with “Misha’s” post, yet that is exactly what he is doing. Some balance would be to show what others are saying and why, and yes, that would include a conservative or two.
Another example is that not too long ago, Mark York made that comment that “…something else is eating you now,” referring of course to my cancer (which I am whipping by the bye). I did not read very much condemnation in the comments section here about that, with a couple of notable exceptions.
Reg is upset about Misha, but not apparantly by Dr. Fritsch (other than calling her a loon). I don’t agree with Misha’s point of view, but he was talking about adults with the ability to defend themselves. Debbie Fritsch, Ph.D. was making threats against a child hoping for a colorado Bonet’ treatment for a little boy… reg didn’t tell you that side of the story though he did call her a loon.
And so, I’ve been reading here, but not compelled to answer via a comment most of the time. I’m more than capable of making comment, I just choose not too much of the time.
By the way, if minimum wage doesn’t cause major problems, let’s do increase it to $25.00 an hour… but I really don’t think you would like the results… It does sound good however… and notice the commenter that suggested that MOST minimum wage earners live in refrigerator boxes on the side of the road… why didn’t anyone on the left of center call out that hyperbole?
Cheers, enjoy the rest of the day. I’m headed to fill my car up with gas that is routinely $2.69 per gallon, high, but I watch carefully how I stop and start, don’t drive an SUV (unless you consider a Subaru Baja an SUV)and don’t make unnecessary trips… by the way, until most recently, Woody too drove a most sensible Volvo
July 12th, 2006 at 6:40 pm
“Reg is upset about Misha, but not apparantly by Dr. Fritsch (other than calling her a loon). I don’t agree with Misha’s point of view, but he was talking about adults with the ability to defend themselves.”
Pathetic…really. Your “not apparently by Dr. Fritsch” is a false assumption, incidentally and doesn’t work as effective ass-cover in any event. What we learn from you, having gathered your thoughts and decided on full disclosure is that you “don’t agree” with lynching most of the Supreme Court (which is, of course, just a “point of view”) . Thanks for that. Thanks a whole hell of a lot.
Scumbags…really. I thought Roper wasn’t quite this much of a sorry case. Wrong!
July 12th, 2006 at 6:44 pm
And what’s the crap about “reg didn’t tell you that side of the story” ? There was a whole goddam thread devoted to long discussion of “L’affaire Frisch”. Everybody who followed this knows what that one was about. For you to suggest I’m being deceptive here in some fashion is as obnoxious as it is disingenuouys on your part. You really are just full of crap.
July 12th, 2006 at 6:47 pm
That’s not how you spell “disingenuous”. Don’t tackle the hard words when you’re pissed off.
July 12th, 2006 at 6:54 pm
“if minimum wage doesn’t cause major problems, let’s do increase it to $25.00 an hour… but I really don’t think you would like the results”
- Jono already proved HE’S also an idiot by hauling out that straw man. RLC gave the appropriate, if too polite response. Pay attention.
“”notice the commenter that suggested that MOST minimum wage earners live in refrigerator boxes on the side of the road… why didn’t anyone on the left of center call out that hyperbole?”
Maybe because the commenter didn’t, “Misha-like”, also suggest that the coutnry would be better off if folks living in refrigerator boxes on the side of the road were run over by Mack trucks.
July 12th, 2006 at 7:06 pm
Woody, gotta ask, given the way you people carried on during The Clinton Years ( relative peace, to put it mildly, record deficts turned into record surplus, a booming stock market) do you ever feel a LITTLE silly when you pull the old “you people are so NEGATIVE ploy?” I know, to the right wing American conservative, HYPOCRISY is the basis of Christianity, rather than kindness or humility, but don’t you at least once in awhile crack yourself up?
I don’t know, maybe because the lion’s share of below the belt
stuff you threw at Clinton/Gore (as tax dollars went down the drain or to second rate Republican D.A.s) was b@llshit on the face of it, it’s ah, …. did Jesus say it was O.K. to smear your enimies as long as it wasn’t the truth?
Relative peace, getting less relative every day, as there are now too man fires for one White House to cover. The big mistake, I suppose, the Dems made was overplaying that loyal opposition jazz. We all made much to much of a fuss over the Dunce for two years after 9-11; and balls to buck the trend were in short supply. James Wolcott is probably right, we are stupid to ask if you at long last have no sense of decency. You had none from the start, and the suckers bet of trying to win credit for being “fair.” This will only be lost on a party, and a President, who’s article of faith is not only that the buck does not stop with them; but rather, the buck was made for the little people.
July 12th, 2006 at 7:19 pm
One final outburst, because this guy is really showing his butt with that last post, I reiterate that Roper and Misha are both part of an internet radio platform that he promotes heavily on his “GM’s Corner” website, so his reaction to this outburst and his association with this Misha character is far, far more relevant than, say, my reaction to reading about some person I’ve never heard of before making insane and vile comments on some blog that I’ve also never heard of before.
Far from “tarring” Roper, I gave him more credit than he deserved.
July 12th, 2006 at 8:17 pm
Reg, you are not only a piece of work, but you are also a true believer, and as I’ve said before, that ain’t a compliment.
July 12th, 2006 at 8:21 pm
At this point a compliment from you would be very, very disturbing. Save ‘em for Misha.
As for “true believers”, maybe you better turn around and check out the genius who shares your site for a perfect specimen.
You’ve shown your colors.
July 13th, 2006 at 3:49 am
reg, I comment here noting that one of the reason’s I don’t comment more often is the character assasination from some on the left. To that single post, you spew 5 or 6 posts like a compulsive person. Grow up reg, I can share the radio with someone and not agree with them fully, or even at all.
You stated above “I thought Roper wasn’t quite this much of a sorry case. Wrong!” You are such a prevaricator. You have never been polite or even accepting of any conservative that comes in here to comment and anyone here can tell you the same.
Hmmm, should I tar them with the same brush since you are such an ass and they share this platform with you? Nah, you aren’t worth the effort. Last comment on this reg… grow up if you can.
July 13th, 2006 at 4:57 am
Keep up the good work! Your thinking and writing like this is just what keeps Republicans winning national elections. Your comments, like most Democrats, offer no solutions just complaints while confusing the true facts. Your long laundry list, that no elected person could possibly deal with in a term, keeps the left trying to deal with too many issues and splinters your base. Pres. Bush has focused on our primary concern and future Republican Presidents will do the same. Way to go, keep it up Marc.
July 13th, 2006 at 5:18 am
Is anyone thankful that there hasn’t been another 9-11, despite the NY Times and the left?
July 13th, 2006 at 5:46 am
$18,000 a year in car insurance for the average CA. driver????? Most of CA drivers must being driving some very expensive cars with very bad driving records. My brother lives in No CA and last time we talked about it he was paying about $1500 annually for his two cars.
Also, why would someone from the left complain about high gas prices? Don’t you all want higher gas taxes so less gas is used and therefore potential greenhouse gas emissions are reduced?
Finally, can someone comment more fully on Mr. Cooper’s assertion that the unemployment rate is 40% higher (reported 5% to the “real” 7%) than is currently claimed?
July 13th, 2006 at 6:10 am
Hey, I spelled “refrigerator” correctly and its not a small word. I especially enjoy using it hyperbolically, even if it appears to upset some individuals.
GM,
Kick cancer’s ass! ( I mean that only anthropomorphically, cancer really doesn’t have an ass). Glad to hear you’re making progress.
July 13th, 2006 at 6:37 am
Is anyone thankful that there hasn’t been another 9-11, despite the NY Times and the left?
ESAD. I work two blocks away from Ground Zero. I neither need nor deserve you to lecture me on terrorism.
July 13th, 2006 at 7:05 am
Randy, how cordial of you to start your comment to me with an acronym telling me to eat s%^# and wanting me to die. How typical. And, to think that you promised Marc Cooper that you would stop such personal attacks. Tsk, tsk. Not to disappoint you, but I’ll do neither.
Why do you think that I was lecturing, why do you think that I was even thinking of you, why is terrorism suddenly important to somone who defends those who subvert our efforts to fight it, and why do you think that your working closer to the WTC makes you any more special than every American who cares about that tragedy?
It seems that you never were taught proper manners, that your outrage is a little over the top, and that you have an inflated view of yourself.
I’ll say what I want, and it might be smart if you just skipped reading my comments and stuck with soccer coverage–as if anyone here really cared about that or how you feel.
July 13th, 2006 at 7:27 am
why is terrorism suddenly important to somone who defends those who subvert our efforts to fight it,
That’s a damnable lie, Woody. I’m not subverting again, yiou liar. As for personal attacks, pot/kettle/black. You lecturing anyone on personal attacks is risible.
It seems that you never were taught proper manners, that your outrage is a little over the top, and that you have an inflated view of yourself.
Projecting again.
as if anyone here really cared about that or how you feel.
More personal atatcks. Pot/kettle/black
July 13th, 2006 at 7:46 am
Woody, I lost two friends on 9/11: Jane Simpkin and Peter Owen. How many did you lose?
The idea that I or anyone else from my side of the political aisle would not be thankful that we hadn’t had to live through another day like that is beneath contempt. Coming from you that’s no surprise.
If you don’t want reactions like mine, don’t be provocative, Woody. I don’t have the problems with GM that I have with you. Indeed, think about the number of people who find what you write objectionable here and what GM writes objectionable. You’re trolling with comments like the one that just pissed me off.
Tom Grey doesn’t troll. GM doesn’t troll. You do. Grow up.
July 13th, 2006 at 9:15 am
R.P., your definition of a troll is anyone who want put up with your nonsense or let you get away with false statements.
So, we rank our right to comment on a subject vs. how much we have personally and immediately at stake on it? Randy, the fact that you lost two friends has absolutely nothing, NOTHING, to do with my right and ability to express an opinion on a topic. You can comment on Iraq, people living in refrigerators, and soccer as much as you want and I won’t tell you to stop–even if you don’t have friends in Iraq, don’t live in a refrigerator, and can’t kick worth a flip.
Now, get over your hissy fit (yes, hissy fit) and stay on topic rather than at attacking me over what I say and how I say and why you (incorrectly) think that I say it.
The people who read this site care a lot less about how you feel about me than what I might say on a subject.
July 13th, 2006 at 9:16 am
That’s “won’t”–not want.
We have a spelling critic that I wouldn’t want (used correctly) to cross.
July 13th, 2006 at 9:28 am
Troll:
Which is exactly what you did with that hateful, ad hominem, baseless comment.
I haven’t made any false statements, Woody. I just object to your trolling comments. If you don’t want anyone to respond to those deliberately inflammatory comments of yours, Woody, don’t make them. That’s textbook trolling.
Why you think that we have to sit back and not respond to your pathological insults is beyond me.
You’re right about one thing, however: due to the volume of shit that repeatedly emanates from your head, I’m sorry I squeezed it.
July 13th, 2006 at 9:41 am
I’m thankful for the opportunity to:
*Subsidize the wealthiest 18% of the county with the mortgage interest deduction while I struggle to keep the rent paid on my own apartment
*Subsidize the richest generation in human history with a regressive, means-neutral payroll tax
*Subsidize breeders’ children with 40% of my state taxes while I’m denied the right to marry my spouse of 15 years
*Subsidize defined benefit retirement plans for bureaucrats while I have to scrimp to fund my 401k
*Subsidize health care for illegal immigrants while I can’t afford my own insurance plan
*Listen to a bunch of whiny tit-for-tat debaters who obviously have lost touch with the experience of the working class of this country
Viva America.
July 13th, 2006 at 10:07 am
I think we can see the line that runs from Coulter to the Woodyesque trolls who, let’s face it, hold all the cards in Washington. Woody claims you don’t care about 9-11. You point out how stupid that is, and make the mistake of mentioning you lost friends in 9-11. AHA! HOW DARE you use them to make such a claim, you are oppressing my rights with you special pleading, in fact, (HA HA HA) you’re probably GLAD they got killed, what with all the (HA HA HA) attention you are getting.
Yes, it’s all quite sick, but we should not pretend it’s “on the fringe.” It’s house rules at Horowitz Mannor. Hey Woody: after the first 9-11 that happened on YOUR WATCH, you managed the KATRINA debacle. One massive, catostrophic security failure per term.
So far.
July 13th, 2006 at 10:37 am
“Grow up reg, I can share the radio with someone and not agree with them fully”
Absolutely. And when they make a comment – in response to a judicial decision – that the Supreme Court should be lynched, you can sit on your hands, calling that “a point of view” that you “don’t agree with” when it’s brought up (in the wake of a long discussion about the significance of some far-left wacko’s vile outbursts on an obscure right-wing blog). And I’ll draw the appropriate conclusion when you come back spewing self-righteous crap about my “character assassination” or, frankly, damned near anything else you might have to say about the myriad sins of “the left”.
I wasn’t trying to torment you, but thought the tweak was an opportunity for you to show some class (which I had actually come to consider a likely prospect.)
Woody’s subsequent wingnut non-sequitur about 9/11 was the perfect two-step from your corner. Okay, now I’ve had my say. I’m going to go back to to more pressing business – like polishing my bust of Stalin, smuggling secret documents to al Qaeda and planning my next character assassination.
July 13th, 2006 at 11:06 am
“Randy, the fact that you lost two friends has absolutely nothing, NOTHING, to do with my right and ability to express an opinion on a topic.”
Leaving your ability aside, you’re absolutely correct that Randy’s personal experience and loss on 9/11 has nothing to do with your right to express an opinion. It does, however, have a lot to do with his right to tell you to go fuck yourself when your comments about liberals and terrorism are unhinged and deliberately provocative, at best. Take some goddamned responsibility for randomly spewing like a Coulteresque crackpot. Take some responsibility for pimping 9/11 to push your pre-fab, narcissistic, bigoted, ill-informed “politics”.
For ignorant, inflammatory McCarthyite assholes, your type spend an awful lot of time whining about how others aren’t polite in their responses to your unhinged, intentionally offensive assertions.
July 13th, 2006 at 11:45 am
I would have hoped that some of you, and you know who you are, would have enough respect for Marc Cooper to allow him, not you, to decide whom may or may not comment here.
I hoped that you had enough respect for Marc Cooper to keep your previously given word about stopping the personal attacks.
I would hope that you had enough respect for Marc Cooper to stop trying to drive away alternative opinions at HIS site where he wants multiple views presented.
I would also hope that you would have enough knowledge and ideas so as to make a contribution to the subject of the post.
But, you obviously do not respect Marc Cooper, you hate other view points, and you are not making a contribution to the subject. You are rude and often irrational and emotional. You are a waste of time. Not to necessarily speak for Marc: but, why should he or I respect you, cater to your demands, or care what you say?
This is a big internet, thanks to Al Gore. If you don’t like it here you can find like-minded zombies who will agree with you at other sites. Otherwise, until Marc Cooper employs censorship against conservative views or against me, I’ll stick around.
If that bothers you, then learn to be more tolerant or go have your fun over at Kos. You will never find me commenting there, and that site if full of people like yourselves. Have fun and good luck!
July 13th, 2006 at 12:16 pm
Pot kettle black. I have no problem engaging GM Roper or Tom Grey, but if your commentary is so asinine as to think that those of us on the left aren’t thankful that we haven’t had destruction rained down on our heads, then I’m going to call you on your bullshit.
If that bothers you, then stick with the freepers.
July 13th, 2006 at 12:25 pm
The shorter Woody: When I make insane, insulting comments, please show some respect for Marc Cooper by treating me nice.
July 13th, 2006 at 12:31 pm
Special K wrote: I’m thankful for the opportunity to: Subsidize breeders’ children with 40% of my state taxes while I’m denied the right to marry my spouse of 15 years
SK, you’re attacking your own parents and the men and women who are raising the next generation to help this nation progress, raise your standard of living, defend you, and help you in retirement.
These parents go through the process of investing their energy, emotions, and dollars in children. They’re the ones who stay up all night when the kids have a fever or stomach problems, and they’re the ones who worry about them day and night without government workers coming over to help them or take up the slack.
Your 40%, which I know is inflated, is still quite a bargain. Oh, and you received the benefit of someone else’s 40% when you were growing up. It seems like the fair and right thing to pay.
(And, not necessarily about you, but don’t liberals care about the chillllllldrennnnn, or is that just a theme to try to get attention and votes?)
If your real beef isn’t about the 40% and breeders but is really about gay marriage, then that’s a reasonable point to discuss.
I was at the Atlanta Pride Festival a few weeks ago, which had 2 or 3 hundred thousand attendees. No one there attacked me as a breeder or complained about their taxes for education. I discussed the gay marriage issue with someone who has become my friend (not that kind of friend.) He lives in Georgia and lamented that he cannot marry in that state.
I was extremely sympathetic to him and had to question whether or not my traditional views needed revisiting. On the personal level, I wanted him to have what he wanted. In the larger sense, I didn’t see that equating same sex marriage with a man-woman marriage was right. I had to step out of the emotional and personal conversation to find the answer that was best for me. There are other ways to solve the problem.
The daughter of a friend of mine recently had a marriage ceremony with her partner. Another lady that I know had a similar ceremony with her’s. It’s done all the time. So, marriage can be achieved and commitments can be made. You can, and may, have done that.
But, I know there is more, and that involves the legal aspects. With few exceptions, laws define marriage as between a man and a woman. That has been the case for thousands of years throughout nations and world cultures. That distinction can impact taxes, social security, medical benefits, and a host of other issues for non-traditional marriages. However, those issues can be overcome. (I do draw the line at adoption by gay parents, though. It just goes against all instincts within me.)
So, after a religious or other symbolic ceremony, available to anyone, a civil union might be able to accomplish what you want without offending those who cherish the traditionally established institution of marriage. And, besides state law, many companies offer spousal benefits for gay couples, too.
Rather than complain about the costs spent to raise you and the next generation or complain about not being able to get married, maybe it would help to respect the views of those with traditional values and obtain your marriage benefits with other routes available. We don’t all have to be the same to get to the same place. You just need to look at other options which can get you there.
I certainly am no expert on this issue, but I have given it some thought whereas I used to summarily dismiss any consideration of the idea. If you want these other things from marriage, then I think that it can be done and changes are being made to accommodate that.
A place where we may have a difference opinion is if you want there to be no distinction as all between gay and traditional marriages. I don’t believe that will happen in this nation or in the hearts of most people. Some differences must be accepted.
Let me know what you think. I’m more open to opposing views than some others here.
Anyway, I’m thankful for the right to dissent, even if it doesn’t always work out like I want.
July 13th, 2006 at 12:37 pm
Randy Paul aka Pot, I mentioned 9-11, because Marc Cooper made a long list of things to complain about, but I intended to show that we can sincerely thank the administration that another 9-11 has not taken place on our soil. Give credit where credit is due. I believe that Roper and Grey would be thankful for that, too.
reg aka Kettle, my point was valid about showing respect. If you don’t like the way Marc Cooper runs his site, then you are welcome to start your own.
July 13th, 2006 at 12:42 pm
After my experience and the time spent tussling with you and GMR over the last couple of days, my only regret about the way Marc runs his site is that he didn’t really ban me, sparing me the temptation to engage in “debates” with the likes of you.
July 13th, 2006 at 1:06 pm
Again Woody, why you think anyone regardless of their political leanings wouldn’t be thankful that destruction hasn’t been rained down on them again is beyond me.
Of course I’m thankful, but I don’t agree with your reasons why. I have more faith in the NYPD in protecting me than I do the Bush administration. I say a brief prayer to myself every time I enter the subway.
July 13th, 2006 at 1:20 pm
As for why I have more faith in the NYPD this is why.
July 13th, 2006 at 1:20 pm
reg, you and I agree on something: my only regret about the way Marc runs his site is that he didn’t really ban me
Randy, I didn’t say that the left wasn’t thankful for no more terrorist attacks. I said that Marc didn’t express that particular gratitude and only expressed negative views of our country and Bush.
The NYPD doesn’t have jurisdiction outside of NYC and is not likely to have intelligence regarding terrorist attacks planned from abroad and outside of the city. As I remember, the FBI was involved in stopping a planned attack on the Holland Tunnel.
The terroists have to be very confused about targets in NYC, as the main paper and many of the liberal residents seem to be helping them.
I’m thankful that I’m not a liberal.
July 13th, 2006 at 1:42 pm
Woody, you seem to be confused. No one is upset with Marc; it’s you who’ve earned the compaints. Marc’s the one who writes the posts. You’re the troll in the comment section. Just FYI.
July 13th, 2006 at 1:46 pm
Woody,
Read the article. NYPD officials are stationed at embassies all over the world gathering intelligence that protect the citizens of new York. Once again you demonstrate that you don’t know what you are talking about.
As for giving credit where credit is due, I’ve got no problem with that.
The terroists have to be very confused about targets in NYC, as the main paper and many of the liberal residents seem to be helping them.
I’m glad I’m not such an asshole as to write stupid statements like the above italicized statement. I’d rather be a liberal any day than be witless.
July 13th, 2006 at 2:33 pm
Woody: “Is anyone thankful that there hasn’t been another 9-11, despite the NY Times and the left?”
Translation: The actions of the left and the New York Times are undermining the war on terror and, consequently, were lucky not to have had another 9/11 event.
While this claim may be dubious I don’t find it offensive and I can’t understand the deranged misreadings made in this thread.
And just to get all dialectical and shit…
Woody: “It seems that you never were taught proper manners”
Do you remember making the following statement, Woody? “Democrats have long lines because they are stupid.” How about this one? “Bias also distorts public perceptions, which is a goal of the left.” You aren’t Miss Manners, Woody, and you’re not right for the role of a shrinking violet who’s delicate sensibilities have been offended by someone else’s insults.
July 13th, 2006 at 3:20 pm
Woody and others:
What Marc listed is common knowlege in these here glorious United States. Check the Michigan or Pew surveys. We don’t have to tell people the economy ain’t working for them. They already know.
As for the unemployment numbers. As you should know the figures only list those looking for work. If you have given up, are a “discouraged worker”, you’re not counted. And the labor force participation is down from the Clinton years. So you could probably double the current number and, if you count workers working part-time but desiring full time jobs, raise it even more.
Finally, I can’t let Woody’s cheap shot at Gore go by. Did Gore invent the internet? No some people at BBN, Stanford, Utah, UCSB, and UCLA did that when they created the ARPANET for the DARPA in 1970. Government program by the way (evil! evil!) But when Gore was in the House he pushed the legislation that enabled the modern Internet to be born. So, yes, he is one of the “Founding Fathers.”
July 13th, 2006 at 3:21 pm
Mavis, it’s a valid point that the radical left fringe seem to think that they should be censoring Marc’s site for him. Marc makes a post, I express my opinion and facts, and wild-eyes liberals wet their pants when they read that someone doesn’t agree with them. Yes, they are disrepectful of Marc and they are criticizing him for not banning many of us on the right, whom only deranged liberals could consider trolls.
Some of you need to get out more and learn that there’s a broad nation between NYC and LA that is different and better than the cities of extremists on the opposite coasts.
=====
D.C., while your response was more cordial, your translation was not what I intended. I think that I clarified it above by saying that there are some good points about this country and administration, such as the one that I mentioned, that should be recognized–despite Randy Paul’s contention otherwise…although he has this notion that he knows everything.
On the manners issues, please note that my statements, taken from whatever context, were generalizations and observations of a political party and movement rather than direct attacks against an individual–which distinguishes me from Randy Paul who, above, told me to eat s#!+ and to die.
=====
I’m sorry, guys, but you’ve accomplished what you wanted but not the way you wanted. I have to get out of here and do some work that is a lot more productive than trying to reason with many of you, which has wasted a couple of hours of my time. I don’t have a job where I can sit on the computer trying to change the world all day. My views mean nothing, but you wouldn’t know it from the way you react. Try to get some rest tonight. There will be more conservatives to try to slay tomorrow.
July 13th, 2006 at 3:23 pm
rlc, just saw your comment as I was signing off. Does it count that more Mexicans are working here under Bush than did under Clinton?
July 13th, 2006 at 5:17 pm
“Another example is that not too long ago, Mark York made that comment that “…something else is eating you now,†referring of course to my cancer (which I am whipping by the bye). I did not read very much condemnation in the comments section here about that, with a couple of notable exceptions.”
Well also read an apology for going a bit too far on that one, but I notice the kind of “balance” roper seeks goes one way like a quota of useless quotes from biased partisans. For example two wingnuts on Exxon’s payroll versus to legitimate scientists working for our government. Yeah these two southern clowns love it whrn the Bushies do something they like, but attack their own public servants when facts get in the way of true belief. If that’s fair I want no part of it. Such blind shillery.
July 13th, 2006 at 5:29 pm
If they took jobs from Americans and depressed wages, yes.
July 13th, 2006 at 5:37 pm
On the manners issues, please note that my statements, taken from whatever context, were generalizations and observations of a political party and movement rather than direct attacks against an individual–which distinguishes me from Randy Paul who, above, told me to eat s#!+ and to die.
Coming from a guy who repeatedly referred to me as psycho and pseudo-intellectual. You lack of self-awareness must make you proud.
July 13th, 2006 at 7:37 pm
rlc, I agree.
R.P., I haven’t done that in a long time, but that comes from my lack of reservation to state the truth. Maybe it would be better if you quit reading my comments or increased the meds.
July 13th, 2006 at 10:55 pm
Hey Woody, you guys in the “Corner” are truly chickenshit. When some deranged pyschopath suggests I’m a murderous pedophile on a blog, such as happened on yours and GMR’s, it strikes me as odd that I’M the guy who gets banned and doesn’t get the benefit of at least calling him a necrophiliac with bestial tendencies. The level of discourse among your buddies is not terribly impressive. Even dumber and more coarse than the crap you peddle here.
Adios amigo.
July 14th, 2006 at 5:58 am
reg, I was totally out of the loop on that. Even if the discourse over at G.M.’s Corner is below my comments here, that still leaves a lot of room for it to be excellent.
I didn’t realize that you were banned–if you are. I know that G.M. wrote you a very cordial email wanting to bury the hatchet and to have some positive conversation–even offering to buy you a beer and take you out for some good Mexican food. Of course, given your privacy concerns, the email address that you provided was phony and his reconciliation was bounced back to him.
It was probably a good idea to block someone temporarily and at that point just to stop the back-and-forth attacks, like we avoid here.
I agree that calling you a murderous pedophile damages the image of those people. Okay, I’m kidding. I agree that is over the line and I’ll try to straighten that out, but not by calling the offender a necrophiliac of animals. But, they might rather be called that than a liberal.
Forgetting differences in political philosophy and the fact that we don’t have busts of Stalin on our desks, there is just a totally different thinking process that you bring to the table versus those of others, who are ususally conservative. It’s like me, an accountant, trying to discuss something with my daughter, an artist.
Maybe we need a translator. The commenter Civil Truth brings reason to the discussions and maybe he can help to moderate some of the tension.
I’m actually sorry for the extreme offense against you and will check with G.M. about righting the situation.
Check back. It’s good to hear other sides when the conversation can be calm.
July 14th, 2006 at 10:35 am
Woody, I like your ideas most of the time, but you are hung up Randy, which I’ve said before (even before RP said I’m not a troll.)
Reg, like so many Dems, has what I call a potty-mouth. I’m tired of reading such junk, so I skim most of his now. And seldom respond.
One of the key ideas I try to express is one of good and bad points of different alternatives. What I like about Marc Cooper is that he’s usually pretty honest about the bad points of both alternatives.
What’s a drag here, and most places, is the lack of comparing both bad and good points.
I’m really glad that the USA hasn’t suffered another major terror strike. I’m also really glad Iraq has had 3 elections, and now has an elected Iraq gov’t — and I suspect is on track for long, slow, successful nation building.
No Leftists here, or elsewhere, seem willing to offer numbers. What unemployment rate would look good? What’s the average of the G-7?
It’s kinda easy to complain about “results” when one denies that the official results (4.8 unemployment) are accurate — why should I believe some other estimate?
I’ve been paying over $4/gal for gas for years here in Slovakia — but high, higher, and ever higher prices are the “peaceful” way to change people’s behavior. Which is what prices do in a “free market”.
In accordance with classical liberal (in Europe) = libertarian thought.
It’s pretty hard to accept that the Left cares more about the poor on minimum wages, when it’s clear most on the Left do NOT want to allow the really really poor Mexicans to offer to work for $5/hr, or $4, or perhaps even less.
Similarly, it’s increasingly hilarious to me that the Left refuses to make the minimum wage unnessary, by offering higher paid jobs! Oh yeah, the Left doesn’t offer jobs to poor people, or almost anybody — they want to gov’t to do it, or the rich, or somebody else.
Lazy anti-peaceful unsustainable solutions.
War with Iran before they get nukes?
Or after?
July 14th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Tom, please note that Randy Paul unnecessarily attacked me personally against his prior promise to Marc Cooper to clean up his act. I simply defended myself after he called me a liar and told me to eat s%!+ and die. That’s not being hung up. That’s just taking up for myself. It’s not normal to tell people to die just for stating their political or economic positions.
———-
You know that the Democrats have no intention of solving any of the problems that they use to get votes. In fact, they aren’t even competent enough to do that. They want people top stay poor and dependent on government so that the Democrats can keep counting on their uneducated votes.
July 14th, 2006 at 5:29 pm
Why does a super patriot live in exile in Slovakia?
The Republicans are good at running up bills they can’t pay and leaving it for Democrats to clean up as Clinton did. This is a fact not an opinion framed in an ad hominem overgeneralization fallacy. Counting the votes sure would change the outcome but when enough minders throw away the ballots anyone can win. They couldn’t have done it any other way. Purge the lists and spoil the ballots. That’s the Bush Paradigm.
July 15th, 2006 at 9:33 am
We’re still cleaning up bills from FDR, but his bills keep growing rather than shrinking.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:44 am
Yeah, all those bills from FDR:
The Social Security Bill
The GI Bill
The Farm Bill (AAA, Price Supports)
What was he thinking? Really screwed it up for later generations.
August 8th, 2006 at 7:37 am
autoinsurance autoinsurance
August 10th, 2006 at 8:23 am
carinsurance carinsurance
August 27th, 2006 at 1:27 am
Dave…
Interesting topic… I’m working in this industry myself and I don’t agree about this in 100%, but I added your page to my bookmarks and hope to see more interesting articles in the future…
April 24th, 2007 at 8:13 am
little nude sexy teen…
Reviews on little nude sexy teen….
February 28th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
gay muscle pay per view…
Bovine colostrum is identical to that found in human colostrum but at higher levels. Muscle Milk helps you grow muscle like never before….