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Yes the fallacy of ambiguity. Many, most, all. “Many” never means “few” in my experience with the term. It translates into “a lot.” Which was your design.

“you truly are one sad simplistic mo-fo.”

Either I concede your slam to most Americans, (who likely don’t know their ancestors’ legal immigrant status according to your statement although not backed up with immigration data or carries with any appeal to authority contained therein) or I’m the above ad hominem. Yeah I get the message you sniveling little pissant.

I don’t know if I should be amused or horrified that you received an “A” in logic class, considering you couldn’t apply a simple fallacy like Ad Ig properly. I guess you missed that day in class, huh? (Care to guess who else received an “A” in logic?) What’s even more hysterical is that you come back at me with Ad Ig once again, clearly demonstrating that you haven’t a clue. CSUN’s standards must really be slipping.

One of the things I find amusing about you is your uncanny knack for putting words in my mouth and twisting the context around so it will fit within your tortured logic. In your latest screed, you state that, “You’ve implied that most people don’t know whom they’ve descended from and thus they could very well be illegal.” You go on to say that I’m claiming, “we are all likely to be descended from illegal immigrants whether we know it or not.” That’s not what I said. Once again, your dreadful reading comprehension skills rear their ugly head. Here’s the actual quote from my post:

“The point is, unless you know for a fact that your ancestors arrived here in full compliance with U.S. immigration laws, you would be pretty hard pressed to be certain if your ancestors originally came to this country legally or not. Many native born Americans are in fact descendants of illegal immigrants, they just aren’t aware of it.”

Do you see the distinct difference between what I actually said and what you claim I said? Do you understand the difference between the words MANY, MOST, and ALL? Spotting these subtle distinctions are in important part of understanding logic, something a brilliant “A” student like yourself should surely grasp… but evidently, not. The fact still remains, most people do not know the immigration status of their distant relatives, and many people are descended from illegal immigrants without their knowledge. That’s a factual statement. If you can’t understand why Ad Ig doesn’t apply here, you should consider returning to your logic class for a refresher.

BTW, You can quit sobbing about Rueben’s immigration status. I merely put forward the question to you as a way of illustrating a point. Your reply clearly demonstrated that you know his status. Bravo. You continue to harp on that, despite the fact that I have never contested your answer, which leads me to believe that you suffer from a wee bit of an insecurity problem. (Didn’t daddy give you enough approval while you were growing up?) Besides, whether or not any individual can positively identify the status of their ancestors in no way invalidates my point. If you can’t see that, you truly are one sad simplistic mo-fo.

Okay… that’s a low blow. I really shouldn’t call you names. I confess, it’s juvenile, disrespectful and entirely uncalled for… but damn, you do make it so easy for me. You keep coming after me, unwittingly displaying your remedial reading skills, tossing out laughably tortured logic and repeatedly demonstrating what a clueless moron you are. (OOPS! There I go again! Sorry about that.) The saddest part is that you have no idea just how badly your are embarrassing yourself. You are like some unfortunate autistic child who just can’t help banging his head against the floor over and over again.

Well, I for one have grown increasingly bored with you. As anyone who reads your posts here can plainly see, you have had nothing of substance to offer the debate… a lightweight in every sense. Continuing the conversation with you is just a waste of my time. I have no doubt that you will reply with yet another worthless screed, marred by your usual deficiencies. Go ahead and rant away, because I’m not playing with you anymore. I surrender myself before your towering intellect. I’m leaving the thread. The sandbox is all yours.

Well I got an A in the logic class so it’s not the first time a infringer didn’t like having it pointed out. You’ve implied that most people don’t know whom they’ve descended from and thus they could very well be illegal. You asked me could I prove it:

“You do know that for a fact, right? I mean, you aren’t just assuming that Grandpa York was legal, right? You know what happens when one assumes…”

Yeah make an ass out of you and me, but in this case it’s just you since I can prove it and did, you can’t. What is the conclusion
of doubting if anyone can? I’m saying this is a permutation of Ad Ig since the idea is we are all likely to be descended from illegal immigrants whether we know it or not according to your statement and only proof can get one a pass from this lumping. Conviction by implication.

My conclusion stands as does the original statement on NAFTA that brought you into trolldom. People hang with their ideas regardless of evidence against.

I suppose calling people simpletons and sad mofos isn’t namecalling?

Yeah pardon me I’m choking on hypocrisy.

I thought for sure that even you would be able to understand my last post, but much to my amazement, you demonstrate that you have the reading comprehension skills of a house plant. How you confuse a statement that most people don’t know the immigration status of their ancestors as meaning that YOU don’t know the status of YOUR ancestor is beyond me. Either your emotions are getting the best of you or you don’t have a grasp of the language… most likely a combination of the two.

One last thing before I allow you fade into Cooper induced oblivion… although I am mildly impressed by your attempt to apply rules of logic to our conversation, I’m afraid all you did was demonstrate, once again, that you have no grasp on what you are talking about. Argumentum ad ignorantiam (aka argument from ignorance) refers to an argument where the writer declares something must be truthful simply because there is no evidence to the contrary. For example:

You can’t prove that Santa Clause doesn’t exist, so therefor he must exist.

A nifty fallacy to be sure… unfortunately for you, it doesn’t apply here. When I state that most people don’t know the immigration status of their ancestors, that’s a factual statement. Argumentum ad ignorantiam doesn’t apply. When I state that many American’s are descended from illegal immigrants without their knowledge, that is also a factual statement. Again, argumentum ad ignorantium plays no role here.

Had I said that most people don’t know the immigration status of their ancestors, therefore their ancestors must have been illegal… well, then argumentum ad ignorantiam would apply. Understand the distinction? Somehow, I doubt that you do.

A few words of advice: if you want to use the principles of logic to declare an argument fallacious, make damn sure you understand the principle behind the fallacy you are quoting, otherwise you just make yourself look like a bumbling fool. What I find especially amusing is that not only did you erroneously declare a fallacy that doesn’t apply, you also provided a link to a web site that very clearly explains the fallacy. Either you didn’t bother to read the web site, or as I suspect, you simply don’t understand it. You really should consider getting some help with your reading comprehension, because it’s painfully obvious to even the most casual observer that you are severely challenged in that department.

Now, go in peace and troll here no more.

Cooper: Sorry about that. I couldn’t resist… I just don’t suffer fools well at all. I promise, I’ll be good.

Don’t flatter yourself. After repeated warnings I have asked you to cut back your avalanche of comments so that you do not monopolize discussions. Ive let u slide. But when you become abusive and start calling other commenters derogatory names you’re put on leave.

Anyway, Im putting York on a time out. Im worried he’s gonna get karpel-tunnel syndrome.

They came here “legally” — not with the approval of the INS but by the grace and will of God himself.

Of that’s good to know.

That sounds like it to me if you can’t prove they weren’t they could be, thus we have the argument from ignorance. Yup I read it correctly, and I didn’t fit the premise. The thesis is this: don’t bitch about illegals because you may have illegal blood coursing through your veins and thus are hypocritical.

http://papyr.com/hypertextbooks/comp1/logic.htm#ignorantiam

I must confess, I am quite amazed at how willing you are to make yourself look like a complete idiot, time and time again. I can only surmise that you suffer from a sever learning disability.

Here is the exact text from my post. Read it over one more time, very slowly. Take your time and use a dictionary if the big words stump you:

“Finally, I’m glad to hear that your ancestors arrived legally in the United States. (At least, that’s the impression I get from your response.) I guess that means that your family arrived here recently enough that you know Grandpa York landed on these shores with all his paperwork in order. You do know that for a fact, right? I mean, you aren’t just assuming that Grandpa York was legal, right? You know what happens when one assumes…

As for me, I can’t say for sure. I’ve traced my family back to the early 1800’s, but actual knowledge of when the original Grandpa BornToBurn first stepped on U.S. soil seems forever lost to my family. Whether or not Gramps entered the country with the full blessing of the U.S. government, or merely stepped off the boat and blended into the crowd like the millions of other new arrivals to the New World have done for hundreds of years, I can only guess.

The point is, unless you know for a fact that your ancestors arrived here in full compliance with U.S. immigration laws, you would be pretty hard pressed to be certain if your ancestors originally came to this country legally or not. Many native born Americans are in fact descendants of illegal immigrants, they just aren’t aware of it. It only takes a few generations before Grampa’s origins, let alone his immigration status, are long forgotten.”

As any simpleton, even simpletons like Mark A. York, can see, I did not state that everyone’s ancestors may be illegal. I stated that most people cannot be sure of their ancestors immigration status, and that many Americans are descended from illegal immigrants without even knowing it. Big difference.

Mark, if you can’t understand that distinction, then perhaps you should demand a refund from CSUN, as they seem to have failed miserably in your education. At the least, you should return for a remedial reading comprehension refresher. You owe it to yourself.