Chile’s Deeper Faultlines
Since the moment the monster quake hit in Chile I sort of self-appointed myself as a translator/aggregator for Chile-related Twitter activity. You can find my long list of tweets here. I’m a former translator to Chilean president Salvador Allende and have been married into a Chilean family for 36 years so it’s a place I know something about.
Now, I’m going to take a few minutes out to offer at least a bit of a deeper analysis. There have been a lot of absurd and sometimes self-serving if not subtly racist ovations to Chile for suffering — so far– only about 750 deaths compared to the tens of thousands in Haiti.
Pointless twaddle. Haiti is the poorest nation in the hemisphere and we expect it to collapse when hit. The Haitians are not dumber or more irresponsible. They are poorer.
Chile is also a third world country, but a more developed one and with a superstructure light years ahead of Haiti. Yet, the expectation that Chile was going to hit by the seventh strongest quake ever recorded, that a thousand or perhaps more were going to die, that a fifth of the country was going to have their lives deeply damaged, and yet somehow all was going to be peace and love and stiff upper lip demonstrates just how damn delusional people can be.
Even the Chilean government participated in this fantasy by initially saying it didn’t need foreign aid. Fortunately, it has reversed this ridiculous notion.
It is impossible this early on and from this far away to make any serious judgment on the response of the Chilean government.
But in the days to come there are a few points we have to keep in mind.
First, this is a full-on catastrophe that would rend the social fabric of any society.
Second, Chile is by far not the poorest place around but it does have one of the most UNEQUAL economies in the world. It suffers from the deepest of class and regional divisions with a not so subtle thread of apartheid-like racism laced through the whole thing. And the region hardest hit by the quake is precisely the poorer, darker southern half of the country for whom much of the capital’s elite have open scorn. The elites have plenty of epithets they love to toss around in referring to their inferiors: “rotos, rotos de mierda, indiocitos, and the worst of all, “ordinarios.” Broken ones, shitty broken ones, little Indians, and….. “the ordinary.”
Immersed in Twitter as I have been for 48 hours, I can say that Chileans in general have demonstrated an admirable humane-ness and compassion. But as soon as the sacking of supermarkets began, the predictable venom comparing the poor to “delinquents” and worse began to sprout (some of that rage expressed by the Good People of Santiago might be better focused on the war criminals and torturers who still populate their golf courses and country clubs).
I don’t think anyone is comfortable watching mobs tear apart supermarkets. But no one should be comfortable watching thousands sleeping in the streets and wondering from where they will get any food and water.
The Chilean government has a responsibility to maintain social order. Yet, its deployment of riot police, tear gas, water cannons, army troops and the imposition of dusk to dawn curfews does not seem the best of responses.
I doubt seriously if Chile will now descend into social chaos. People are too busy figuring out where to sleep rather than to go out and riot.
I just as much doubt, however, that this episode is going to be just some passing and unfortunate moment. Economic and social frustration has been mounting for years, creating great dissatisfaction with the centrist and timid administration of the last 20 years which has been loathe to radically reverse the free market policies of the Pinochet era. Four years ago when President Bachelet was elected she was almost immediately met by a massive student rebellion protesting the deplorable state of public education in Chile.
Indeed, though Bachelet remains personally popular, her ruling coalition lost last month’s presidential election and conservative billionaire Sebastian Pinera assumes the presidency in a few weeks. People wanted change and they wanted it bad enough to elect someone least likely to give it to them.
Pinera has, nevertheless, promised jobs, jobs, jobs. Well, he certainly will have that opportunity in trying to rebuild a devastated land. The environment he will be operating in, however, will be quite volatile to say the least.
He’s going to have to come through and come through big time given the current circumstances as there is no room, time or margin for error.
The only good news for Pinera is that he doesn’t come in to power for another ten days or so. And between now and then, who knows what will happen?
February 28th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
Mi casa quedo inhabitable en la ciudad de Concepcion.
Comenzaste hablando de allende y ya sabia que tu opinion seria una opinion comunista .. hasta hablando en contra de Pinochet y del orden en la entrega de comida y del toque de queda.. tu viste los robos de los supermercados .. es la mejor medida.. nuestra sociedad chilena no es como la de los ingleses o norteamericanos que tienen mejor cultura.. la mayoria son ladrones y oportunistas.. cuando las cosas como hoy suceden.. es lo mejor el de imponer este tipo de orden para una mejor paridad en la entrega de alimentos y ayuda por igual a todos.
no tienes idea perro comunista.
February 28th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
My house is uninhabitable in the city of Concepcion.
You started talking and I knew beyond your opinion would be a common opinion .. to speak out against Pinochet and order delivery of food and curfew .. you saw thefts from supermarkets .. is the best measure .. our Chilean society is not like the English or American culture that are better .. most are thieves and opportunists .. when things happen like today .. is it better to impose such an order for a better rate in the delivery of food and aid equally to all.
Communist dog you have no idea.
February 28th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
I think the point is made quite eloquently by the above. Sad to live in a state of mind in which you think your own people are inferior to more advanced cultures like America where looting would NEVER occur.
February 28th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
looting occurs at my U.S. workplace every day, and we don’t even have momios with internet access
February 28th, 2010 at 1:55 pm
I think your analysis was extremely on point. I’m definitely feeling some Katrina-esque vibes from all of the “beautiful (white) people” looking down upon the “rotos ordinarios”/”delinquents” who are looting to survive (which is entirely different from just stealing a plasma screen TV because you can).
And yes, while Chile definitely isn’t Haiti, it is still, like you said, one of the most unequal societies in this hemisphere. Hopefully something good can come from such a tragedy and Chile can seriously examine such really terrible economic inequality
February 28th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
Marc, you write eloquently enough, but you are clearly in the Allende camp of intractible socialist thought – not that rabit right wing Pinochetistas are any better.
Thankfully Chile has been pragmatic and generally distant from the latin american lunacy – right or left.
I am of the centre, I know what it is like to try and debate issues with Frei – Pinera supporters.
But I simply do not understand why you seem to deny the obvious criminality in Chile.
This looting is opportunism.
Entirely predictable of course.
Yet you rail against the “curfew”. I wonder what your agenda is – you you secretly want anarchy ?
Do ordinary Chileans complain ? No. They know its in their best interests, yet you try and put a salacious pejorative spin on it. And this under an ex Communist Concertation President.
You do your commentary a disservice with such unworthy polemic.
You wrote for Allende but havent learned anything since.
Disastrous as the Golpe was and the sort of civil war, Pinochet did indeed save the country in my view. Dina atrocities and the like get bad press, rightly so, but only with a balance of the actions of leftists before during and after.
The fact is Chile has developed apace – and for that the left wing coalition should be rightly praised (corrupt politicians aside).
It is time Chile had a taste of something centrist-right for a while. Certainly Pinera seems to be a man whose time has come.
As argued in the press you will recall by a leading left leaning journo.
Not your political persuasion I know, but better by far than UCI/Lavin.
As for the aid issue. What aid exactly, where and when ? Sure we could all do with more but it has to be organsised and channelled. Chileans are pretty practical in my view. I would see a mix of Kiva style entrepreneurial loans and Soft international loans fed through Banco Estado for personal finance and rebuilding.
Its big and complicated enough
but to rail against “curfews” as some political return to dark agaes is crass nonsense and unworthy of you
traditionally looters are shot – too bloody write
when so many peoiple are suffering already
… and you want these criminals rampaging through the streets.
Thank God for Bachelet pragmatism and social conscience God help us any move towards nutty Allende extremism.
I dont like the snotty rich Santiaginos any more than you do, nor the ignoring of the poor and mapuches; but we are going in the right direction in my view.
Allende ? God help us indeed !
We have enough destruction on our plate without a call to anarchy.
February 28th, 2010 at 2:13 pm
[...] Allende, Marc Cooper (now a member of the journalism faculty at University of South Carolina), writes about what may happen there in the coming weeks… I doubt seriously if Chile will now descend into social chaos. People are too busy figuring [...]
February 28th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
Bronwyn
“looting to survive”
heavens above where do you get that idea ?
this is (lets say mostly) criminal opportunism
pure and simple
- nicking tvs, washing machines, clothing and robbing banks and peoples houses has nothing to do with survival
where do you people get these ideas ???
just ask any Chilean and you will get the truth told easily enough
February 28th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
Marc
I think you commentary on the student “demonstrations” early in the Bachelet Presidency is looked at through a biased eyepiece
yes
activists will stir up trouble on such matters, fuel prices etc
but common thievery and corruption are the main issues for most people
Sure we have no minimum wage, shop assistants earn a pittance, teachers nurses etc struggle to fund eduction and medication
but the AFP system is working well enough for the future
and
yes
my mother-in-law gets 75,000 pesos a month pension to survive on
so dont preach to me about the poor
she lives in fear of being robbed and mugged more than anything else – I would wager your family has bars on its windows too ?
but things are getting better in Chile absolutely
Allende-ism is certainly no solution
Heavens above, God has punished us enough this weekend without us suffering that as well.
February 28th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
Marc did you translate Eduardos original comment ?
IF you did
it is particularly interesting that you turned “communist” into “common”
and that would be very suss – naughty and unprofessional
and tarnish you accordingly
“say it ain’t so Joe”
February 28th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
In America those that defend the Right usually have sub normal IQ’s. In Latin America its an affectation of the middle class determined to dissociate from the indigenous culture and prove their European provenance. God its so fucking atavistic.
Yes, enough of nutty Allende types and more murderous pricks like Pinochet. Jesus, go crawl back under one of the many pieces of rubble…
How is it people can be so fucking selfish and pathological within minutes of having their own country LITERALLY decimated?
It shows just how thin the veneer of civilization really is. The Haitians whose history is so rotten and lacking in civility or humanity behaved with far more grace.
What I always wonder is why shop keepers who have vital supplies and are able don’t just open their doors in the aftermath of an event like this. Individuals share in time of crisis all the time.
One of the creepiest scenes that was a sort of background blip to an Anderson Cooper broadcast from a street in Haiti was that of a shop owner driving up with a big panel truck to load up what was in his shop from what seemed like a completely demolished building…I thought: why isn’t that mother fucker hauling people to and from hospital in that nice fancy truck? It was in the midst of desperation to get people to and from medical care and there he is with this swish truck the size of an emergency truck materializing out of the rubble that supposedly no one could get through…
February 28th, 2010 at 3:01 pm
I am so deeply sorry for the loss and sadness to your country, Chile, and her people. My heart and help that I can give, are with you. Marc, thank you for this blog, will help me to help you.
Leesa
twitter@viequesbound twitter@hugsforhaiti
February 28th, 2010 at 3:09 pm
Anna
re shopkeepers give aways
the only shops open are the family run ones out of one street front room with drinks sweets and biscuits, they are in no financial position to give anything away
the large shops and owners are (generalisation i know) in my experience well wealthy –
I remember at the time of the San Fransico a hindred years ago Cuthbert Heath made his reputation by paying out insurance claims promptly without fuss
- thereafter everyone wanted to insure with him
altruism or smart business ? or both
but people want utilities services and food and medication
only a few shops relate
or should the poor small holder farmer or fruit and veg poor folk give it all away ?
its a mess
we need rationing probably
another admin nightmare
and can we get regular resupply ?
In Curico we are advantaged by being in a region with plenty of farmland, fruit etc
… how much can government do in such a time across such a scale ?
In Curico we have water and electricity and phone lines now operating – so yet again well done Chile
if we didnt ahve these a**hole looters the police could be helping the needy and not saving us all from these bloody criminals who make it worse for everyone and especially the poor and desperate at this terrible time.
“shoot he bastards” is my view
then we can all get out and do our bit for Chile without fear of being robbed and attacked in our houses or in the street
February 28th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
Dear Mark,
I share your “Katarina-like” felling. It grew stronger and stronger for every hour of missing information from small coast towns south of Concepcion in the region Bío-Bío. Instead, reporters were analyzing the possible opening of public transportacion (metro lines) in Santiago…
The huge economic inequality in Chile is indesputable. It was brutally displayed in the choice and bias of media coverage. Lets just hope now that basic humanitarian aid will not follow that agenda.
Thanks for your twitter-coverage during these intense and terrifying hours. It has been helpful.
/Terese (Sweden)
February 28th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
Illapulito:
I didnt translate Eduardo’s, sad and pathetic post. I woudnt touch it with a pole. He did it himself and translated Communist Dog perfectly. The only thing he left out was the ultimate Chilean epithet “ordinario,” Ordinary — because what could be worse than that?
Chile, indeed, has a high percentage of pickpockets and petty thieves. As does Guatemala, Peru and East St. Louis, all of them places wth high concentrations of people living at or near or below the poverty line. Or do u believe it is something genetic about Chileans that makes so many of them petty criminals? Or is it perhaps lax societal standards? Perhaps not enough crucifixes in public school class rooms or just not enough electrical and water board based discipline imposed by the Saviour of The Nation Augusto Pinochet? You better hope he saved Chile because it turns out that he charged your public treasury something like $30 million in embezzled funds for his services!!!! Of course, that is nothing compared to the outrageous vices of a roto de mierda living in La Pincoya. As you suggest in one of your recent Tweets, if only those Carabineros would show a little more backbone and shoot some of those scum looting the Unimarc, all of ur problems would be over. Why just shoot them by the way? Why not torture them a bit, shoot one of their children and toss their wives out of helicopters. That ought to show them what law and order really means.
I hope Chile recovers from this tragedy soon and that along the way some humility is achieved.
February 28th, 2010 at 4:00 pm
Hm, I’d rather be nutty and impractical than a sociopath. But that’s just my own personal preference.
February 28th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
Marc, excuse me “pinochet supporter” ? ye Gods and little fishes
a choice between nutty Allende types on the left and reactionary types on the right ? some choice.
on balance Allende was worse. just
we may always have earthquakes
but I pray we have no more Allende, Pinochet, corruption and criminality
and you want no curfew so people can run riot
in Europe people can see why Pinochet was bad bad bad
maybe they can see quite how screwed up Allende and his mob were to make even Pinochet seem good by comparison
we have so many opportunities in Chile, a hundred years of peace, stable government and many resources
the last thing we need at an time, let alone now, is a return to anarchy
but its a fact of life we have hard core politicos on the right and left in Chile and there is no talking to either of them
luckily we have Bachelet and now Pinera
and not the loonies running the show
February 28th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
Bronwyn, I guess it depends whether you are the one being robbed and attacked.
But if you prefer all the food and resources to go to a criminal minority and let everyone else starve and suffer
its not my choice
why is it everyone suggests its ok to rob and steal from everyone
and that that is the best solution ?
all these suggestions by people for folk to give everything away
a case of do as I say, not do as I do – as usual
February 28th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
so lets have a vote ?
hands up for no curfew, looting robbery violence and anarchy
(imagine you are in the middle of it mind, a victim)
or an organised effort to get utilities working, and food and fuel to the poor and needy
for criminals and anarchists vote A
the rest vote B
(by the way, to start, my terrified mother-in-law votes B)
February 28th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
Earthquakes, Allende and Pinochet – what did Chile do in an earlier life to deserve such suffering ?
February 28th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
Bravo, bravo and bravo Marc — for the post and the response to the momios — I guess one reward for all that tweeting (a valuable service I might add) was to invite momios to your blog. I can barely read through them without my blood starting to boil. I have to take a moment now to calm down…
February 28th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
marc, pinochet was indeed corrupt as discovered late in the day and I am no supporter of his other than to say allende was worse, god help us. some choice
no shops open for 2 days
everyone is going without
i hope it ll opens and there is some rationing and no panic buying
i have no idea how and when they get restocked
so you say looting unimarc is right, theft and damage and destruction
and who suffers
the poor the old the weak the handicapped who cannot go shopping at unimarc tomorrow
you may support the criminal classes, I dont
nor does the government
nor do chileans,
ask them
February 28th, 2010 at 5:39 pm
“on balance Allende was worse”
The tell…
February 28th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
marc, you translated for allende
it sounds like you write for the north koreans too
i do not support dina tactics and atrocities
and well you know this
disingenuous indeed
but in truth
i really do not understand
insofar as if you did want to support the weak, elderly, poor and disadvantaged
then looting prolongs the suffering and injustice
and likely increases the death toll, directy or indirectly
allende like pinochet considered folk expendable
why so squeamish now ?
those advocating give aways
are they offering open house ?
for people to take their food tvs and furniture
with menaces
we are all victims here
advocating robbery and violence
makes no sense
… other than for political revolutionaries
the average age of my neighbours is above pensionable age
they suffer more
but you ask
is chilean genetics predisposed to criminality ?
a good question
when going into Santiago by bus or train it seems a distinct possibility
I used to give cash and clothes (from americanas) to my chosen local charity until I discovered the manager was keeping it for themselves
the reasons ? lots I suspect but its a scourge we can do without
however one observation
its mostly guys that do the thieving
yet
women in Chile get such a raw deal
following the poverty logic then there would be more women doing it
but the governments help for the poor (subsidies)
and general legislation
is moving in the right direction
I sincerely hope Pinera keeps much of it going
Chile is a case history proof, in my view, that trickle down conservative political economy doesnt work
but the nor did communism and aint that a fact
I am no pinochet supporter
but I will support anyone who gets us away from communism
if we get stuck with that disastrous choice
so much is paid by ordinary folk for schooling and medical
it leaves so little
and insurance is so expensive
and now
our houses fall down
and businesses get robbed
Pinera is a billionaire
no social justice there
especially when he was convicted for insider share dealing
not so long ago
but he is likely; and clearly by popular choice
the best option currently
(personally I would like Bachelet to stay on, if the constitution had allowed – I think she would have been elected too)
I hope we have some rationing this week, rich people stockpiling stuff would be unconscionable
looting in another form in effect
you’d like to shoot a few “rich fascists” no doubt though ?
and if so I would understand your sentiment
sigh
what a mess
but the prospect anarchy is even worse
February 28th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
“why is it everyone suggests its ok to rob and steal from everyone and that that is the best solution ?”
Yeah Marc, why did you do that ?????
February 28th, 2010 at 5:47 pm
‘it sounds like you write for the north koreans too” because I don’t speak North Korean and I’ve had increasing problems understanding your posts.
Marc, this Communist dog stuff has got to stop. By the way, where the F is your goddam birth certificate ?
February 28th, 2010 at 5:49 pm
“Pinera is a billionaire
no social justice there
especially when he was convicted for insider share dealing
not so long ago
but he is likely; and clearly by popular choice
the best option currently”
Just saying…
Where the fuck is Sergio when, finally at long last, we need him ?
February 28th, 2010 at 5:50 pm
Marc, and fianlly
although i dont agree with your politics
I have to say most sincerely
excellent work on the information and the like over the last 2 days
exceptional
so
my congratulations and best wishes
I know too well the allende and pinochet views in Chile, and they are not uncommon either, but I dread the thought of any return to such extremes
macho and injustices abound. its true
but I do think we are going in the right direction
fast enough ?
practically speaking, probably
we need less corruption
and better tax collection (from the wealthy)
for sure
vamos chilenos
February 28th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
“There have been a lot of absurd and sometimes self-serving if not subtly racist ovations to Chile for suffering — so far– only about 750 deaths compared to the tens of thousands in Haiti.”
*****************
What is Mark reading? Most people I talk to are just amazed that such a strong earthquke did not result in more deaths, nothing to do with race. More talk is what type of building construction is used in Chile and if and 8.8 hit California how many bridges and building would collapse.
February 28th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
“Where the fuck is Sergio when, finally at long last, we need him ?”
C’mon, reg, isn’t it obvious? Just like Pat Robertson always defaults to blaming the gays for natural disasters, I’m sure Sergio is piecing together how the U.S. EMPIRE is responsible for sending invisible shockwaves across South America to crush leftist revolutions. I mean, as we’ve observed from our interesting visitors here, the deplorably extreme differences between rich and poor in Chile are not at all the fault of Chileans, so it must be because of the U.S. EMPIRE–specifically, Obama. ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrome) clearly exists with the leftist loons in the same way as with right-wing loons.
Of course, I’m sure these momios here are just plants of the U.S. government.
February 28th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
I was actually just out and thought of doing a similar post, not necessarily with the political commentary but simply showing the difference in the neighborhood I live in (Estacion Central) and the rubble and damage compared to the barrios altos where I just was (Vitacura — back to order, neat and clean already).
February 28th, 2010 at 7:55 pm
I want to see more relevance like reg’s sclerotic ramblings attributed to his mother in Missouri.
Do St. Louis pickpockets have health care?
February 28th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
The bigger issue is to recognize what terrifying times we are now in when geo physics will one up the geo political as will the weather. This calls for co-operation and a better way of doing things.
Its up against the wall time. Do it right, be civilized… or die.
The gods are angry.
February 28th, 2010 at 8:40 pm
To Lilliput or illapaulito: No need to make political pucky over whether or not one should be civilized in a crisis. Its not about some poor shopkeeper being made to give all away. Its about anyone who is standing and can mobilize to help one who isn’t.
A catastrophic earthquake is probably almost worse than a war…almost. In any catastrophe there will be opportunists and those with a pathological bent be they haves or have nots will have their innate madness be excited by all the potential prey around them. All this is exacerbated by what the culture has spawned and will tolerate. You find out what your country really is about in these moments. Or what your government is really about…
I have often thought community courses in survival and self organization should be taught.
February 28th, 2010 at 9:21 pm
Aaah, Sergio – you had an opening and you blew it ! Change your diaper.
February 28th, 2010 at 10:13 pm
More tedious ramblings from Sergio, looking for the American villain in the earthquake.
I’ll give him some credit, though. At least he’s not that fascist Eduardo.
March 1st, 2010 at 7:28 am
Nothing is more important than politics.
Even in the suffering caused by natural disasters, there be ‘must’ blame found. The guilty punished.
What better time to find the racists, the fascists, those who do not meet our ideological ‘purity’ test.
I mean, what better time than this. Never let a crisis go to waste.
Pathetic.
March 1st, 2010 at 7:37 am
‘we must blame found’ is ‘there must be blame found’
And of course, what better place to look for it than those who disagree with our religion for the solution to all that is wrong in the world. Even earthquakes.
‘
Extremism. More dangerous and caused more suffering in the world than all earthquakes put together.
March 1st, 2010 at 10:10 am
Well, I think that the strength and resiliancy of the Chilean people in the wake of this tragedy, and the fact that the country actually is viable economically (no. 1 per capita GDP in South America), IS in large measure due to the type of people that make up the nation. About 2/3rd of whom are white (full European), and only around 1 % of whom have African ancestry.
March 1st, 2010 at 1:35 pm
bur reg is “white”, so that analysis fails.
March 1st, 2010 at 1:36 pm
“and only around 1 % of whom have African ancestry”
Well there you go–that must be why Chile is a much more successful nation than the U.S., where the black population is around 12.8%.
March 1st, 2010 at 1:38 pm
“bur reg is “white”, so that analysis fails”
You just got your ass handed to you by Kevin, Samuel, and Jim R, and your response is continue to obsess about reg. Hilarious. Don’t you have some students to teach, or is LA County paying you to surf the net?
March 1st, 2010 at 4:55 pm
oh, god. white boy from under the rubble in the corner is back…still beating the white renaissance drum. tea baggers getting on your nerves?
March 1st, 2010 at 5:14 pm
on balance Allende was worse.
Did Allende send his secret police around the world killing his political enemies, including car bombings in Buenos Aires and Washington, DC?
Did Allende even have secret police?
Not to my knowledge.
Did Allende have his opponents sent to Dawson Island or other concentration camps? Did Allende dissolve Congress and censor the media?
Did Allende have his opponents killed and buried in closed lime kilns in Loquen or two to a grave in Santiago’s general cemetery? Did the bodies of Allende’s opponents end up floating in the Mapocho?
Did Allende systematize torture?
Surely you know the answer to all of these questions is no and if you don’t know that, your lack of knowledge of your nation’s history is disgraceful. If you do know that and you still believe the above comment, then you’re morally bankrupt.
March 1st, 2010 at 5:15 pm
Nice to see White Cornerback show his true color again. Racist nitwit.
March 1st, 2010 at 6:36 pm
Hey Randy, welcome back !
March 2nd, 2010 at 11:23 am
Practicalities:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/03/02/earthquake.resistant.building/index.html?hpt=C2
March 2nd, 2010 at 11:30 am
http://earthbagbuilding.wordpress.com/tag/sandbag/