Condi’s Tears
Well, now we at least know what it takes to make Condi Rice “sad” — the death of 60 civilians including a couple of dozen children in the Israeli bombing of Qana. The Associated Press quotes the U.S. Secretary of State saying:
Rice said she was “deeply saddened by the terrible loss of innocent life” in Israel’s attack. But she did not call for an immediate cease-fire in the fighting between Israel and Hezbollah militias.“We all recognize this kind of warfare is extremely difficult,” Rice said, noting it comes in areas where civilians live. “It unfortunately has awful consequences sometimes.“
Yeah, gosh, Condi, sometimes it does. Now we can only wonder how many civilians would have to have been blown up to convince Condi that a cease-fire should be immediate?The true tragedy here is that in the wake of the horror show in Qana, Israel itself has had to declare a 48 hour unilateral bombing pause. Strange isn’t it? For three weeks now we have heard just how awful, terrible, impossible it would be impose any halt in the violence. But now, as world opinion convulses over Qana, it’s all of a sudden feasible. As of yesterday, anyone who dared suggest such a halt was branded an anti-semitic appeaser of Islamo-fascists. But now that Israels finds it in its own p.r. interests to interrupt its bombardments, it’s all just fine. I see.I suppose it is rather obvious to say that if Rice and Bush had demanded a cease-fire ten or fifteen days ago not only would the victims in Qana be alive, but so would several hundred other people but it, nonetheless, bears saying. The long-term consquences of these past three weeks are going to be incalculable, devastating, almost unthinkable. And for what? The Israelis have already been seen to have radically misjudged the situation. Their military campaign not only has not eradicated Hezbollah, it hasn’t even stopped the rain of incoming rocket fire. Hezbollah, meanwhile, has been promoted into the new heroic symbol of a seething Arab world. And whatever thin shred of credibility the U.S. might have retained as an honest broker in the region has been immolated in the fires of Qana. What has been gained, and at what cost?
I was away this past weekend and rather purposefully disconnected from the news. I re-enter the wired world tonight only with fear and trembling. The political short-sightedness, the pure ideological blindness, the staggering ineptitude of this administration is truly breathtaking.
Dare we ask what now lurks on the other side of the bombing pause? Will the bloodshed in Qana and international pressure now tamp down the conflict? Or are we edging toward the precipice? As Josh Marshall has put it, has the Bush administration decided to go for broke on this one:
“…There do appear to be forces in Washington — seemingly the stronger ones, with Rice just a facade — who see this whole thing as an opportunity for a grand call of double or nothing to get out of the disaster they’ve created in the region. Go into Syria, maybe Iran. Try to roll the table once and for all. No failed war that a new war can’t solve.”
Could that possibly be?
Â
July 30th, 2006 at 9:55 pm
Gee, I wonder if Iran and Syria will do the same, or if they will continue to supply Hezbollah and provide safe harbour to Sheikh Nasrallah in Damascus ?
No I don’t wonder at all.
Well, its clear that Marc and all those with a 1-minute attention span would be happy with a ceasefire.. Hezbollah will re-arm, re-group, and not release the kidnapped soldiers. (Just forget about the past 6 years of violent escalation since Israel withdrew from Lebanon and UN resolution 1559 was passed). Short term peace has been acheived !
July 30th, 2006 at 10:06 pm
Now we can only wonder how many civilians would have to have been blown up to convince Condi that a cease-fire should be immediate?
I suspect such a number is astronomically large, unfortunately.
July 30th, 2006 at 10:41 pm
Good post, Marc.
About, “Could that possibly be?”
Answer: yes. At least that’s what I’m hearing. Although I’m getting the reverse of what Josh Marshall said; namely that Syria’s the “maybe” while Iran’s the highest on the list.
July 30th, 2006 at 10:56 pm
Jono sounds like one of those Israeli “cyber-warriors” that the Jewish government is deploying throughout the Internet.
July 30th, 2006 at 11:40 pm
The viewpoint of Jono and others like him is that Israel’s right to defend itself against Hezbollah automatically triggers the right to behave in whatever manner it wishes without restraint, including destroying Lebanon (remember that the very first Israeli bombing target was the Beirut airport, which last I knew was not Hezbollah International) and raining death upon civilians (because Hezbollah was launching rockets NEAR the building where children were sheltered), even when such actions are ultimately not in the bests interests of even Israelis themselves. How many young Israeli men and women have died over the past 40 years defending the rights of 200,000 or so settlers to illegally occupy Palestinian land? Such is the cynicism of Israeli leaders. And such is the dishonesty of those who continue to accuse Israel’s critics of being pro-terrorist. We’ve seen that canard already and already called you on it.
July 30th, 2006 at 11:41 pm
“The long-term consquences of these past three weeks are going to be incalculable, devastating, almost unthinkable. And for what? The Israelis have already been seen to have radically misjudged the situation.”
You are sadly very right about this, Marc.
July 30th, 2006 at 11:48 pm
Finally, I pointed out yesterday that Israel’s admonition to civilians to leave south Lebanon did not absolve it of responsibility. These first graphs from a NYT story today make clear why.
QANA, Lebanon, July 30 — The dead lay in strange shapes. Several had open mouths filled with dirt. Faces were puffy. A man’s arm was extended straight out from his body, his fingers spread. Two tiny children, a girl and boy, lay feet to head in the back of an ambulance, their skin like wax.
In the all-day scramble to retrieve the bodies from the remains of this one house — backhoes dug for hours at the site after an early-morning airstrike — tallies of the dead varied, from as many as 60 to 27, many of them children.
This was the single most lethal episode in the course of this sudden war. The survivors will remember it as the day their children died. For the village, it is a fresh pain in a wound cut more than 10 years ago, when an Israeli attack here killed more than 100 civilians. Many of them were children, too.
The Israeli government apologized for that airstrike, as it did for the one here on Sunday. It said that residents had been warned to leave and should have already been gone.
But leaving southern Lebanon now is dangerous. The two extended families staying in the house that the Israeli missile struck — the Shalhoubs and the Hashims — had discussed leaving several times over the past two weeks. But they were poor — most worked in tobacco or construction — and the families were big and many of their members weak, with a 95-year-old, two relatives in wheelchairs and dozens of children. A taxi north, around $1,000, was unaffordable.
And then there was the risk of the road itself.
Dozens, including 21 refugees in the back of a pickup truck on July 15, have been killed by Israeli strikes while trying to evacuate. Missiles hit two Red Cross ambulances last weekend, wounding six people and punching a circle in the center of the cross on one’s roof. A rocket hit the ambulance convoy that responded in Qana on Sunday.
“We heard on the news they were bombing the Red Cross,†said Zaineb Shalhoub, a 22-year-old who survived the bombing. She was lying quietly in a hospital bed in Tyre.
“What can we do with all of our kids?†she asked. “There was just no way to go.â€
They had moved to the house on the edge of a high ridge, which was dug into the earth. They thought it would be safer. The position helped muffle the sound of the bombs.
July 31st, 2006 at 12:46 am
Marc, good to have you back – it has been a mixed bag since your absense (read for yourself). In some instances we have reached new heights of fatuity, but there have been some simply brilliant posts. To bad you had to return to such tragedy in the Lebanon/Israel saga – Qana is like 1996 all over again, but good to see how fast you have come up to speed. That’s all I have to say.
July 31st, 2006 at 1:02 am
The problem isn’t that the Israelis are acting “without restraint,” it’s that this is restraint. Theoretically the Israeli way of war is more legitimate than for instance suicide bombing because it’s a military operation with a military objective, and not simply killing for the sake of killing. However, when the level of death and destruction gets this high and the level required to achieve the objective is likely to be much higher then the question of legitimacy becomes moot.
July 31st, 2006 at 1:06 am
To recap: On Friday, there was at least the first inklings of a peace proposal on the table.
“BEIRUT, July 28 — As fighting raged on in southern Lebanon, Hezbollah joined the Lebanese government in a peace proposal calling for an immediate cease-fire with Israel followed swiftly by a prisoner exchange and reinforcement of U.N. troops along the embattled border, senior Lebanese officials said Friday.
“The agreement for the first time put Hezbollah and the rest of the Lebanese government in a unified position on how to end the 17-day-old conflict…”
Then, late on Friday and Saturday a plan was being drawn up to be delivered to the Security Council on Monday or Tuesday.
AND THEN…. Saturday night, in the middle of the night…. Qana.
And suddenly all bets are off.
Perhaps there’s no correlation, but the sequence of events is….bothersome.
PS: Neutral observers—both UN people and reporters— say that Hezbollah was certainly firing lots of rockets, but not near or around Qana. Nor were there Hezbollah fighters in evidence. (Which doesn’t mean they weren’t there, of course. Rockets launching, on the other hand, are tough to hide.)
July 31st, 2006 at 2:14 am
Interesting conspiracy theory coming out of Israel right now: Qana was staged.
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Diplomacy/8997.htm
Some of the “facts” used to marshall support for this hypothesis wilt fast under scrutiny and careful thought.
How could rigor mortis have set in so fast? they wonder. Could these corpses be days old, brought in from elsewhere?
Well, rigor mortis actually can start setting in after about 10 minutes.
Ashen faces? Well, if a lot of concrete and plaster crumbles around you, you’ll have an ashen face.
Very little blood? If someone has already bled to death, or has died of non-bleeding injuries, and is caked with dust, you won’t see much blood, which isn’t very conspicuous when dry.
The building had not fully collapsed and the roof was relatively intact? Nothing prevents an internally damaged building from collapsing only internally.
Ben Wedeman is paraphrased describing the scene at a level of detail that I didn’t hear him going into in the CNN videos (2, so far) that I could find about the Qana incident. (Those some of those details appear to be correct–but it’s hard to tell from the footage.)
I don’t think this incident is quite as black and white as either side is painting it. Let’s assume that what the IDF is saying about timing and targeting is correct. Then it would appears that the basement of a building in an area Israel had struck earlier in a helicopter attack had become a refuge, a place to sleep, for displaced residents who didn’t have the means to leave Qana (or who chose to stay in the area for other reasons). These refugees may have reasoned that a building with an intact roof was probably OK for the night, and probably wouldn’t be hit again soon, a “lightning doesn’t strike twice” argument. (The environs of the building, from CCN videos, appear to be pretty devastated already). The Israelis are saying that it’s possible that tremors from bombs falling about half a kilometer away might have triggered the collapse, though they still hold out hope, obviously, that it was an explosion from stored Hezbollah munitions, or maybe even something more nefariously and elaborately staged.
Expect this story to be spun wildly over the next few days. Even if “shit happens” turns out to be a fair summary of investigation results from any “reality-based” point of view, the recriminations will coninue to fly from both sides based on assertions starting “yeah, but this shit would NEVER have happened if ….” And it won’t stop the conspiracy theories on both sides anyway.
In other depressing news ….
I found an LA times article including an interview with a woman whose daughter had died in the collapse. At one point, according to the story, she starts talking about how this daughter was about to start school, and begins to cry, then says she’s glad her children are dead, they are now martyrs.
You can look at this report several different ways (she’s sincere in her delirium and shock, or maybe just delirious, or a Hezbollah interpreter started putting words in her mouth, etc.) But none of them are pleasant.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-qana31jul31,0,301525.story?coll=la-home-headlines
July 31st, 2006 at 3:21 am
Would be a very good time for Democrats to unite around the issue of pushing for a sustainable policy toward Israel.
This is one of the few “wedge” issues available to Democrats in that it cuts through some of the GOPs biggest constituencies: namely the “Bubba” vote.
Bubba’s gotta be tired of seeing his tax money being used to let Israel make endless mischief. And the Hispanic voter surely has more and more simpatico with the racial element in Israel’s attempt to eliminate the Palestinians…
It’s going to happen eventually, but may take a decade or more, or maybe now is the time….
July 31st, 2006 at 5:21 am
Now we can only wonder how many civilians would have to have been blown up to convince Condi that a cease-fire should be immediate?
Amen.
You know what tires me about both sides in this issue? The unceasing desire to place blame for everything on the opposition. It’s as if there is an unceasing supply of childish leaders screaming at each other: “He started it!”
July 31st, 2006 at 6:09 am
“This is one of the few “wedge’’ issues available to Democrats in that it cuts through some of the GOPs biggest constituencies: namely the “Bubba†vote.”
I think this idea is about as likely as Mel Gibson for President, at this point.
July 31st, 2006 at 8:07 am
Um, I think Gibson’s campaign might have a better chance; but like I say, I really like that “Beyond Thunderdome.” So far Bunkerbuster, the Dems seem, cynicaly and perhaps fairly, to simply let the Republicans self destruct.
Clearly, the Neocon wing feels Rice has served her (token) purpose. Which brings us back to Bush. His ability to not grow
is his life, his legend, his love.
I’d start praying.
July 31st, 2006 at 10:46 am
Best Gibson commentary thus far, from LA Times Steve Lopez.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-lopez31jul31,1,3238844.column?coll=la-headlines-california
July 31st, 2006 at 11:02 am
I’ve been reading some Israeli blogs and other internet forums this past week, and I’m struck by the smug, self-righteous tone many of them adopt. They remind me a lot of the outlook of the white South Africans before the Apartheid regime was dismantled. Some of the sicker ones sound like the “good Germans” who had “no idea” that anything bad was happening to the Jews.
July 31st, 2006 at 11:18 am
Why no mug shot? Nick Nolte should sue……
July 31st, 2006 at 3:08 pm
Yeah, and what do you wanna bet that the media lets this blow off, with at most a teary-eyed, softball pitch Barbara Walters interview?
Imagine the outrage that we’d be hearing if it had been Michael Moore behind the wheel that night. We’ve sure heard plenty of vitriole from the punditocracy about out-of context remarks that Moore unwisely made, but since Gibson is a favorite his far more offensive remarks will probably not be scrutinized nearly as much.
July 31st, 2006 at 3:35 pm
Hmmm. An indication that Josh Marshall may be right after all. (read down to the last ‘graph)
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153292032964&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
July 31st, 2006 at 4:24 pm
“Business is Good.”
Colonel ****** remarked when asked about these wars and rumors of wars. So easy to fall into that mode, after all it is a business and we are good at conducting these transactions. And so is Israel and the rest of the region. Its a growth industry, and unfortunately morality is no longer an issue, the water is so muddied by tit-for-tats.
Somethings gotta give to change this business mentality, and fighting in perpetuity is not the answer, now more than ever, we need a break-from Israel, Hizbollah, insurgents, and guerillas, and a superpower trying to make it just another day at the office.
July 31st, 2006 at 4:32 pm
Could it be? Hell yes. Does anyone really believe that the architects of the incursion into Iraq were not whispering into the ears of Israeli military and political leaders when they decided that kidnaping of 2 soldiers constituted provocation for war? Again, that’s Wolfowitz and Perle and all those neocons who are unmatched in their support for Israel, save maybe Pat Robertson.
It is obvious from the interviews conducted by Pravda-right–Fox News–that the neocons and their allies are viewing what’s going on in Lebanon as the start of World War III. Do I see that? No. But maybe they know something I don’t…like this vast overreaction to kidnaping of 2 soldiers was maybe a PRETEXT the global net of neocons decided to use so that they could expand the depleted forces of the Coalition of the Willing into other points on the Axis of Evil. And if we can’t do it on the ground, as we can’t, and conventional airstrikes, even apocalyptic shock’n'awe pyrogenics prove fruitless, well, maybe it’s time to unleash our (tactical, of course) nuclear force on some of Israel’s bad neighbors.
Could this be? Hell yes it could. But if we catch them in time, keep a couple of steps ahead and call a spade a spade, they may be forced politically to back down and of course label us as
paranoid liberals who think the worst of America and even want to cut and run from conflicts, like Iran and Syria, that we’re not even involved in yet.
July 31st, 2006 at 4:35 pm
Excuse me, them was pyrotechnics….”pyrogenics” probably means something but I’m too tired to try to parse it etymologically.
July 31st, 2006 at 5:23 pm
“Defense officials told the Post last week that they were receiving indications from the US that America would be interested in seeing Israel attack Syria”
That’s a pretty mushy anonymous quote. It sounds like wishful thinking.
July 31st, 2006 at 6:34 pm
Just to play devil’s advocate with myself (and the above cite of mine), here’s an interesting interview with Newsweek’s Christopher Dickey on today’s Fresh Air. It’s a sober-minded, forthright, knowledgeable centrist view. And while those on either side of this ghastly mess won’t agree with all of it, it’s definitely worth a listen.
http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=13
July 31st, 2006 at 6:40 pm
I wish the Dems had some spine but the idea that they will call for so much as an “even-handed” approach is as likely as Mel Gibson being the next Man-of-the-Year at the UJA! (sorry, couldn’t resist piling on). As usual it requires someone from the GOP (Sen. Hegel) to come out and call like he sees it – “Sheer Madness” and for Bush to demand an immediate cease-fire.
But I agree Marc, that won’t happen. More and more this looks like William Lind’s “1914″ scenario with our boy-king playing the part of the Kaiser and the Israelis Austria-Hungary. Yes they have a legitamate grievance. But does that allow them to start a Greater Middle East War? Tonight I understand that the Israli War Cabinet has decided to expand the ground war in S. Lebanon after several more bombing runs (Cease fire?) proved ineffective. Meanwhile the call up of three Israeli Reserve Divisions has frightened Syria into placing its armed forces on “High Alert”. What Next? A headline announcing “Iran Mobilizes”? And there were large demos in Sadr City today calling for Death to Israel and the US. And Turkey is still massing at the Kurdish Frontier. If ever there were a time for statesmanship it is now. But we have this crew which was once described, laughingly, as adult leadership! No, Condi might as well go shopping for all the good she does. And with a Congress slavishly proclaiming its fealty to another state nothing seems to be around to stop this nonsense. I don’t think the Europeans can. Maybe China can call in its loans but they don’t seem to care either.
This is about as serious a situation as I can remember and future historians will have a lot to say about the sheer size of the incompetence and ideological madness shown here. Yep its August and the lights may be going out.
July 31st, 2006 at 6:40 pm
TOP 3 HITS OF THE THREAD:
FROM DAVID B: “Jono sounds like one of those Israeli “cyber-warriors†that the Jewish government is deploying throughout the Internet…”
FROM TWISTED B: “The viewpoint of Jono and others like him is that Israel’s right to defend itself against Hezbollah automatically triggers the right to behave in whatever manner it wishes without restraint, including destroying Lebanon …”
FROM BUNK: “And the Hispanic voter surely has more and more simpatico with the racial element in Israel’s attempt to eliminate the Palestinians…”
A glimpse into a parallel universe, perhaps..
David B: When you find some evidence of your ugly joke, do show.
Twisted B: You keep overcompensating, Balter. I thought journalists of any repute were able to discern and reflect the truth. Hopefully, one day you will awaken and realize that, by george, Israel and its defenders are not in the same cartoonish league of inhumane enemies as Lex Luther and other action villians. Stop the distortion! Clearly your comment is outrageously off the mark.
BUNK: Where did you get this latest brilliant idea of yours, from the Fringe Left Manual On How To Be
A Lefty-Correct-Moron
July 31st, 2006 at 6:44 pm
Rosedog: thanks for posting WAGING WAR OR WINNING PEACE, By HRH Prince Hassan bin Talal
A good read, hope all will take the time to check it out.
July 31st, 2006 at 7:19 pm
And for those who say the Dems don’t have a position on Iraq today twelve congressional leaders – including Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, John Murtha, Dick Durbin, Steny Hoyer and (!) Tom Lantos – wrote a letter to President Bush urging a withdrawal plan be set up to extricate us from Mess-O-Potamia. Now if they could only join Sen Hegel in demanding more action on a cease-fire . . .
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????? ???? ??????? ?????? ????????? ????????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ????????? ???? ?? ?????? ??????? ????? ?????????? ??????
December 19th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
Hey, thanks for that link to get the free gift card for toys from Kmart, I tried to use it but its only open to those in U.S.A. which sucks because my mom got hers in 3 days in the mail, but she lives in Denver.
March 29th, 2011 at 7:26 am
E1wk6Z http://djUhw3m9CapHj49gLldr41b0v.com
May 31st, 2011 at 7:23 pm
Rice said she was