Contra-Cronkite
George Carlin, who I had the privilege watching perform two days before he died recently, had a great opening for what would be his final routine.
He would strut out on stage and open his act by yelling at the top of his lungs:
“F*** Lance Armstrong! And while we’re at it, f**** Tiger Woods!” Since when do we have to be told who are heroes are?”
All last month it wss Michael Jackson.
As of today, it’s Walter Cronkite.
Never met the guy except once. He seemed avunvular enough (even if did use to hang out for parties at the National review).
He did his job — for what it was– well enough it seems. He was serious and dedicated and competent. He was certainly respected if not admired by millions. Fair enough. By why the unabashed, relentless hagiography of him and the CBS Evening News –as if this was some golden period in our history. And as if we are all helplessly adrift now without the reassuring voice of Uncle Walter to tell us all this is the way it was.
I would LOVE to see just one retrospective on the Cronkite Era that had at least a whisper of critical sense about it.
Yes, Cronkite’s 1968 commentary on Vietnam and his advocacy of negotiation was memorable, pivotal, from the heart, and a couple of years too late. At least it seemed that way to many in my generation who had already been clubbed, tear-gassed and jailed for a couple of years before Cronkite found his voice. Better late than never. But then again, nobody I knew back then was counting on CBS to end the war.
No fault of his, but let’s keep things in perspective. Walter Conkrite’s tenure at CBS News overlapped with some of the most virulent and dangerous moments of the Cold War, of a perilous nuclear arms race which has still not found its historical terminus, of an era of almost delusional American Exceptionalism, and of legalized racial discrimination and Jim Crow. CBS News was hardly responsible for these societal ills, and not by any stretch was Cronkite. But anonee who denies that the dominant networks did not directly contribute –at least 90% of the time– to the national consensus that kept such deplorable stuff in place is kidding themselves.
Nor was this some golden period for the news media itself. If you were a black, a latino or a woman for that matter, you could pretty much forget about working for network television (and for a number of other newsrooms). The obsessive notion of objectivity was, in reality, a narrow ideological litmus test that found absolutely NO room on the air (and almost none in print) for any professional who might wish to dissent from the Official Cold War Consensus (How many times was Izzy Stone invited on to CBS as a guest commentator?).
So, Walter Cronkite, rest in peace. You seem a very decent fellow who led a dignified and fulfilling life.
But, I reserve the right to choose whom I will worship.
July 18th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
Thank you! I thought it was just me.
July 18th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Tiger Williams ? More likely “Fuck Tiger Woods” – because “Fuck Serena Williams” doesn’t play quite the same way…
I’m not going to debate the Sainthood of Walter Cronkite, but there was some pretty good reporting on civil rights by CBS correspondents that caused open conflict with network executives and southern affiliates. Howard K Smith left the network over this issue. I think Cronkite was pretty good on this score. He also did some very courageous frontline reporting in WWII – accompanying the 101st Airborne on a glider mission into occupied Holland and flying on B17s over Germany. (As a kid I really liked the old “You Are There” tv series with Cronkite – many of the episodes were directed by Sidney Lumet and John Frankenheimer, with scripts by writers like Paddy Chayefsky and Reginald Rose.) The only coverage I’ve seen of Cronkite’s passing was Maddow’s show Friday night, which featured mostly reminisences by Dan Rather and Tom Brokaw and it was pretty good – gave some insight into what Cronkite brought to the job of broadcast news anchor and how the business has radically changed in the years since. As relatively intelligent TV journalism, it beat the shit out of the Michael Jackson Death Marathon.
July 18th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Tnx for heads up on Woods/Willaims. Age is a terrible thing. CBS did lots of good reporting on lots of things. Ands lots of very bad reporting as well. We haen’t gotten yet to a new model of news. But I am nostalgic for the old model where Walter told you that is the way it is. RIP
July 18th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
I certainly don’t worship Cronkite, but compare him to the current crop of clowns occupying the anchors’ chairs on the Big Three networks these days. Gibson? Couric? Williams? Ugh, actually, I’d rather not.
Tiger Williams is an interesting character
.
July 18th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
You’re going to hate me – I’m not usually one to haul out the red pencil – but…
My guess is you left “not” out of this line: “I am nostalgic for the old model…” I’d be shocked if you didn’t, given your general POV.
July 19th, 2009 at 6:00 am
Interesting bits, reg.
I met one of Cronkite’s daughters. Good friend of mine was friend of hers. I will remain mum on the dysfunctional elements of the family I was privy to.
July 19th, 2009 at 7:11 am
Yesterday, in between some work stuff, I caught some of the tribute thingys to Walter Cronkite and they (sorry can’t recall the station I was watching, CNN?) showed a couple clips from the “You Are There” series. The set-up to the clips noted that in 1950 only 10% of American households had TV. By 1960 it was 90%. The opening narration that started each show was crazy, kinda a ‘Big Brother’ sounding Twilight Zone lead in. But then entered WC… In retrospective the theme for YAT comes off as quite educational. The clips shown were of WC trying to take the political temperature of the Roman Senate as Caesar was about to become Emperor. The other clip was a court room re-enactment of the Salem Witch trials — which aired right after Murrow blasted McCarthy. It made me think of YAT as a televised version of the Everyman Publishers who tried to bring classic literature to the masses. The impression I came away of WC in the ’50′s was one of a guy who was very innovative in trying to use the new medium of TV. Was also impressed in how WC embraced the space age.
July 19th, 2009 at 9:08 am
“die soon.” Like your boring little soul, Surge ?
July 19th, 2009 at 9:13 am
Marc: I would LOVE to see just one retrospective on the Cronkite Era that had at least a whisper of critical sense about it.
Is this a request for me to comment?
July 19th, 2009 at 9:41 am
Rob – I’ve actually checked out a bit of internet info on “You Are There”, looking to see if old episodes were available online (they’re not -CBS is far too saavy about copyright) and, while I’m actually questioning whether Chayefsky and Rose – two of the great writers of early television – wrote for it (I think that’s based on a mixed recollection by Sidney Lumet, in which he was confusing their work for the live plays he directed for TV) an interview with John Frankenheimer confirmed that a bunch of the “You Are There” writers were folks who were blacklisted by McCarthy. I think it was probably one of their last TV gigs under their real names – or else they were writing for “fronts.” It sounded like the entire production was a labor of love for most of the people involved. Frankenheimer also recalls that they had some of the greatest acting talent of the era because the show originated from NYC and the timing of rehearsals and live broadcast didn’t conflict with Broadway schedules.
July 19th, 2009 at 10:00 am
reg – this is cool. My local L.A. library has DVDs episodes of YAT hosted by WC featuring the flight of the Wright Brothers and final days of the Graf Spee.
http://catalog1.lapl.org:80/cgi-bin/cw_cgi?fullRecord+6399+965+2012649+1+2
Going to check it out when I get back to CA.
July 19th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
I don’t hate you reg. I just want you to die. soon.
I knew you didn’t like reg, but I didn’t know you were 6. It’s nice of your parents to let you use the computer now and then.
July 19th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
“(How many times was Izzy Stone invited on to CBS as a guest commentator?).”
Hear! Hear! I definitely would have wanted to hear Pancake’s perspective on the Cold War.
July 19th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Sergio is making a strong push for the role of resident troll. This is the second time with the “death wishes”–even Woody has more class than that.
FYI, Sergio, reg’s comments are infinitely more informative and interesting than your vapid, ankle-biting, tiresome sneers. Cut out the infantile behavior, already.
July 19th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
sergio. go fuck yourself.
reg thanks for the first post. i didn’t know any of that information
July 19th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
“Politicians, old buildings and whores all grow respectable if they last long enough”
Cronkite was a distinguished-looking talking head.
July 19th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
What did you do in the war, Ed ???
July 19th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
Rob – check out this link…
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1480691
This NPR interview with Cronkite about YAT claims that ALL of the writers were blacklisted…
July 19th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
I vaguely recall a time long ago when Sergio made an intelligent comment, before he developed this fixated animus toward reg, who appears in every discernible way to be a far better person.
July 19th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
“Politicians, old buildings and whores all grow respectable if they last long enough”
Cronkite was none of those, and was respectable before he grew old, so apparently you’re too stupid to even grasp the point of your silly line.
Cronkite was a distinguished-looking talking head.
And too stupid to read and/or grasp any of the material that has been posted here about him.
July 20th, 2009 at 4:48 am
I might add that CBS had probably one of the smartest correspondents as a contemporary of Cronkite: David Schoenbrun.
July 20th, 2009 at 4:58 am
A brief interruption – Breaking news in the places other than the liberal American press!
Following up Marc’s recent post titled Honduras: Mala Onda
Authorities in Honduras seized computers of former president Zelaya which contained “official” election results for his constitutional referendum that was never held. In other words, he was going to change the law no matter what.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
July 20th, 2009 at 5:35 am
More breaking news, America! This related to another of Marc’s recent posts, which said:
As a bonus, this update is from the LA Times!
Many Nicaragua revolutionaries feel betrayed by the revolution
Someone notify Obama. Maybe he can send troops there and to Honduras to restore socialist order.
I’m sure that Marc and the Leftists here have perfectly good…. Hey, look over there! Is that a 60′s GTO peeling off!
July 20th, 2009 at 6:04 am
Back on topic: Battle Over Walter Cronkite Nasty Tell-All Book – - “That’s the Way He Was: My Ten Years with Walter Cronkite.”
July 20th, 2009 at 7:07 am
Wow, Woody – a 92-year old man suffering from cerebral vascular disease had dementia ? That’s incredible !
July 20th, 2009 at 10:01 am
An age of cheap “icons” and even cheaper “iconoclasts.”
July 20th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Yeah, Bob – otherwise how would Ronald Reagan be revered for singlehandedly “bringing down The Berlin Wall” or Bill O’Reilly even have a job ?
July 20th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Reg:
Re:
“What did you do in the war, Ed ???”
Actually, I DO have a war injury dating back to the Viet Nam years. I slipped on some ice crossing the border into Canada.
July 20th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Cronkite was a sort of transitional figure–from the Consensus Era post-depression/post-WWII, thru the explosive late 60s-mid 70s, to the Nostalgia-for-Consensus Era of the early 80s. I suppose you could replace the word “consensus” with “imperial” or some such designation. Most people in that era were looking for evidence (1) that America was really as good as we were saying it was, and (2) that it would hold together during times that we were asking very difficult questions (about racial equality, about poverty amid plenty, about nuclear disaster…)
My memory of the early 60s was that Cronkite did not inspire the loyalty or the criticism that Huntley & Brinkley did (or “Chet and Davit,” as our Chicago based Sisters of Providence called them).
The Wolf Blitzers and all seem hell-bent on replicating the iconic moments we remember Cronkite for, but they do it by overwhelming us with video and technology, and substitute a sort of appearance of competence for gravitas. It’s like they are betting on the come that America is going to look back fondly on the week that Michael Jackson captured world attention, and remember them as the thoughtful analysts who brought us the news. It isn’t going to work and I wish they would just stop trying.
July 20th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Does it really take a genius to figure out that a lot of the Chrokite Obits are going to be laced with nostalgia and sentimentality? Yes, a lot of middle of the road people are going to take his editorial breaking from Vietnam as evidence that the system somehow works. Golly, what a tough oversimplification to see through. For a little context, we might also note CBS’s mostly forgotten 1971 “The Selling Of The Pentagon,” perhaps the last time the mainstream media (or perhaps, the progressive media?) had the stones to challenge
the War Industry in any significant fashion.
What, one hopes, effects Cooper here is bad conscience. Having endorsed the worst of modern journalism (Jeff Gerth on Whitewater) the comparative decency of old Walter must shame his long buried decent instincts. Walt was, after all, worth more than a truck load of twisted, lying war mongers like Christopher Hitchens. And that’s the way it is.
July 21st, 2009 at 3:56 am
Yeah, reg, given your last two comments, it’s obvious that you aren’t capable of gleaning useful and correct information from what you read.
July 21st, 2009 at 6:19 am
I’m still waiting for you to post something here that’s either useful or correct…
July 21st, 2009 at 8:10 am
“I don’t hate you reg. I just want you to die. soon.”
I don’t see the comment so I can only assume it has been deleated. If so, good on Marc.
A repulsive comment at best, and totally uncalled for. I’m not fond of reg (as if anyone here didn’t know that) but calling for him to die is beneath contempt.
I’ve watched these two battle and since I’ve no dog in the fight, I really didn’t care. But the old Markie Yorkie once wished the same for me and reg (as I recall) stood up and called York a slimeball or something.
reg, you didn’t ask for it, but I’m hereby on your side in this brouhaha.
GM out.
July 21st, 2009 at 11:27 am
“reg, you didn’t ask for it, but I’m hereby on your side in this brouhaha”
Right. Yet you stand by your co blogger who routinely launches pathetic homophobic and racist attacks against your new pal and has once even accused him of being a pedophile. Cut the phony earnest crap Roper.
“GM out”
This on the other hand is great news. Lets keep it this way
July 21st, 2009 at 11:30 am
How wonderfully bipartisan of you, GM.
Just like our excellent health care reform.
July 21st, 2009 at 12:18 pm
I assume GMR’s earnestness on this one…but I want to correct Ahmed on another poiknt:
“(Woody) has once even accused him of being a pedophile”
Way more than once, over at WitnessLA. For a while it was his stock comeback when I countered one or another of his bogus claims or outrageous assertions. (The key to understanding Woody’s utter childishness is that he NEVER, EVER admits to getting anything wrong – not even a little bit when it’s there in black and white. He’s way too insecure to acknowledge any capacity for error – the sign of a fragile ego masquerading as some sort of delusional all-around expert.)
And his latest comment is this gem:
“Woody Says:
July 21st, 2009 at 11:28 am
I nominate reg to be the first gay person on the Moon.
“That’s one small step for homosapiens. One giant leap for homosexuals. We “come” in peace for all mankind, and we do mean men!”
You’ll have to fatasize about a President named Dick calling you.” (end clip)
I don’t give a shit about being called “gay” (insert the old Seinfeld line) but this puerile bullshit does reflect poorly on a clown who serially uses gay or “fag” as an insult – Woody’s MO time and again. He further – after blaming a gay kid, shot by a classmate who felt “harrassed”, for “creating a murderer” – states this bit of the way too obvious : “Where I live, we call normal what you call homophobic and bigoted.” (although I think it’s probably accurate about Woody’s refuge in Gingrich County, it’s not as true of Atlanta.)
Since he’s too much of a moron to be much more than a petty annoyance to liberals, Woody really should be an embarrassment to “conservatism” – unfortunately I don’t think he is in many of those circles.
July 21st, 2009 at 1:42 pm
G.M., there’s no reason to side with reg, who has been personally abusive to every conservative and has run off most. Pacifying him is as effective as sitting down with terrorists hoping to pacify them, as Obama wants. It’s totally useless and gives him an excuse to create more problems and gives him the idea that you’re weak. Plus, you can’t raise his opinion of you.
- – -
Excuse me, reg, when have you ever admitted to being wrong? I’d admit it if I was wrong, but your faulty logic and analysis don’t prove me wrong except in the eyes of raving left-wing lunatics.
- – -
Unlike reg, I’m not going to carry fights between blogs. At least I have respect for Marc Cooper for that. But, one is welcome to follow this link for a more accurate portrayal of reg’s pschosis.
reg quotes – Rated R
July 21st, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Psychosis indeed, Woody.
…and a sad, lonely parasite.
July 21st, 2009 at 2:53 pm
This song expresses the conservative view of Uncle Walter..and, likely that of Marc Cooper.
Jo Dee Messina – My give a damn’s busted
July 21st, 2009 at 3:09 pm
GM deserves credit on this one. Why is everything so binary all the time? Who cares if he sides with Woody?–he’s making the right call on Sergio.
Sergio, of course, is not capable of apologizing it would seem. The resembalnce to Woody is more than passing, which is actually pretty funny, since he thinks he’s Woody’s arch-enemy.
July 21st, 2009 at 3:36 pm
“Unlike reg, I’m not going to carry fights between blogs”
My, how considerate of you. Instead, you serial post on Marc’s site by picking sissy fights with reg on a near-daily basis, lower the discourse to AM radio levels, make non-stop silly generalizations about liberals, and embarrassingly claim you’ve “won” when you’re repeatedly out-argued–a tactic common on school playgrounds among the intellectually undeveloped.
DanO, GM, reg: kudos. Woody, Sergio: get a room, please.
July 21st, 2009 at 3:39 pm
There’s something strangely satisfying in watching Sergio and Woody kiss and make up.
July 21st, 2009 at 4:00 pm
Hopefully it’s totally boring to 90% of you but if anyone’s interested in further observing the ravings of a degenerate, be sure to click that “reg quotes” link above, scroll to the top, read Celeste’s post and follow the disintegration of the Woodster from an annoying moron into a full-tilt bigot offering rationalizations for shooting a gay kid in the back of the head, topping it off with a fit of rage at the notion that he might be subject to any criticism when he shoots off his mouth and topped off with a stream of bigoted invective and a mega-dose of crank “science” from Focus on the Family. Kind of a funny thread really, if this circular bullshit hasn’t already put you to sleep. If anyone ever wondered why I treat this lame weasel so dismissively with utterly rude vulgarities, this is a prime example.
July 21st, 2009 at 4:03 pm
I “topped off” the “topping” – terrible sentence…
July 21st, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Talk about meltdowns. reg has his monthly period and starts making raving, lunatic serial comments, sometimes six or eight in a row. As I’ve stated before, reg is not competent to make any judgments on me.
reg, still, you can’t refute my points and always resort to personal attacks and false claims of victory. reg, you have never beaten me in an argument, and a fair jury would agree with me on that.
Logic trumps emotion.
July 21st, 2009 at 6:47 pm
and a fair jury would agree with me on that.
And you know this how? Do you have to data to back it up? Have you conducted mock trials to make these determinations? If so, who represented the other side? Are there transcripts or videos available to review? If not, please explain how a “fair jury” would make this detemrination.
July 21st, 2009 at 6:53 pm
Yes, I do have data on it. Check with the commenters at GM’s site.
July 21st, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Why would you consider a “fair jury” to be those consisting only of individuals presupposed to your beliefs? Are you unaware that jury selection involves both parties selecting jury members?
July 21st, 2009 at 6:58 pm
Make that predisposed to your beliefs.
July 21st, 2009 at 7:24 pm
Woody – I proved indisputably that you made a totally false statement about “page 16″ of the health care reform bill. The problem is that you’re too stupid and/or childish to understand when you’ve had your ass whipped. I doubt that anyone who reads this site with hasn’t noticed that your steady diet of horseshit shoved back up your butt with what would be an alarming and humiliating frequency – for a sane person.
“Check with the commenters at GM’s site.” That pretty much seals my argument…
This is really some tired, ridiculous shit. Your narcissism is totally out of control.
July 21st, 2009 at 7:27 pm
Also, refuting your points isn’t a “victory” – it’s almost absurdly easy and the irrefutable case against me is the fact that it’s not worth the time spent. On that score, yes, I’m an idiot. Everybody who reads your ravings already knows what a fool you are – even relatively conservative commenters here who consistently disagree with me on issues like Jim R.
July 21st, 2009 at 7:31 pm
that 7:24 should have read “I doubt that anyone who reads this site regularly hasn’t noticed that your steady diet of horseshit gets shoved back up your butt with what would be alarming and humiliating frequency – for a sane person.”
July 21st, 2009 at 7:58 pm
You guys are pathetic.
Randy, ever since you got a job running the copy machine at a law firm you fancy yourself as some Walter Mitty attorney.
A fair jury is one in which truth and logic rule, which is GM’s site, versus raving emotions here.
reg, you’ve moved past the crazy category to the liar one. You’ve gotten so emotional that you’ve made serial posts typing as fast as you can without thinking or checking your repeated mistakes, but you know what you’re saying and you NEVER proved me wrong.
July 21st, 2009 at 8:14 pm
You wrote (snipping from IBD, as I noted and you didn’t): “Right there on Page 16 is a provision making individual private medical insurance illegal.”
This is so false it’s beyond crazy.
You’re a lying sack of shit.
Go to hell. I’m sick of your childish whining when you’re whipped. You’ve got no balls. Just a ridiculous crybaby.
July 21st, 2009 at 9:33 pm
17 bullshit-laden internet rants just on this site, just on this thread.
Absolutely no political power.
July 22nd, 2009 at 3:11 am
Randy, ever since you got a job running the copy machine at a law firm you fancy yourself as some Walter Mitty attorney.
A fair jury is one in which truth and logic rule, which is GM’s site, versus raving emotions here.
Woody, you just insulted me after I politely asked you reasonable questions. You have no moral authority to lecture anyone about “raving emotions.”
July 22nd, 2009 at 7:33 am
Sergio – who has Mike Davis’ autograph – is giving irony a bad name…
July 22nd, 2009 at 8:20 am
Woody, asking someones death over what is essentially a political argument is dispicable. reg is right in that particular disagreement. Give him (and me) that one please.
God knows I’ve pounded the progressiveness of reg numerous times, and received pounding at the same time. But, I don’t call for his death (perhaps I call for him to pay the taxes he wants every one else to pay – but to die? No way.
July 22nd, 2009 at 9:39 am
“Woody, asking someones death over what is essentially a political argument is dispicable. reg is right in that particular disagreement. Give him (and me) that one please.”
I’m not prodding you GM but all Sergio’s contribution are extremely brief, rather cryptic and reg focused. I defended the guy for awhile and still think that his style, super reductionist, is odd and a bit funny. The die soon though was gross. That said, why would you expect Woody to show sympathy. He, as has been mentioned, continually makes racist and homophobic attacks (asking me once if its embedded in my to “kill infidels’) and this has included calling reg a pedophile. Im sorry but what he says on a regular basis is as bad if not worse than Sergio’s gross attack. And this is your man…..
July 22nd, 2009 at 10:05 am
I think Marc Cooper is paying off both Reg and Woody to make sure his posts aren’t talked about in any meaningful fashion. I see this morning that that “birther” movement is edging towards the mainstream.
The “birther” movement is Woody writ large, played out in our discourse through the legitimacy it is granted by major outlet of our “liberal” media. Doesn’t matter that it’s a lie. Doesn’t matter
that it’s so stupid it can hardly be debunked. What matters is they keep talking and are treated as legit.
If you talk to Marc Cooper about how the same thing was done (thus far, on and much greater scale) with Whitewater, Marc will get hot and bothered and sputter something about how Whitewater was aimed at working class families. The Vince Foster hearings? Hey, Marc has another Monica Lewinsky joke he prepared for the fourth grader in us all.
So, here we go again. Hopefully, owing to a few stray wisps of shame, Cooper and some others are closer to the right side of the fence this time. Think it all couldn’t happen again? Reg? Don’t kid yourself….
July 22nd, 2009 at 10:36 am
Aside to Reg: Channel 101 on DirectTv is playing reruns of both Deadwood & Oz, two very good shows.
July 22nd, 2009 at 10:38 am
One thing that a rightwinger and a liberal might agree on is that Texans can’t tell Californians a damned thing about paying taxes…
July 22nd, 2009 at 10:39 am
Before the age of the Sopranos, The Wire et cetera Oz seemed revolutionary to me. Easily one of the best, most fascinating TV series of all time
July 22nd, 2009 at 10:49 am
Thirdcharmer – for what it’s worth to you, here’s a very astute observation about Obama and the birthers…
http://ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/07/giving_them_more_rope.php
I think about this stuff all the time…but I’m not lost in the Clinton Ozone, thinking that if only Sid Blumenthal was back in the White House we’d have those darned GOPers on the run. Obama, Axelrod, et al have got much shrewder moves and more political capital than the Clinton crowd…and Barack causes the crazies even more pain where they live. Coates nails it.
July 22nd, 2009 at 11:27 am
G.M., another commenter here told me to die, after I did something else first.
A flash from the past:
You’re not dealing with gentlemen, G.M.
More from the past that applies today.
G.M., you don’t need to take up for reg. If he has so much time to take up offenses and curse out people on the other side, then he surely has time to take up for himself…plus, he doesn’t deserve your support.
I’m wasting time here when I should be making money. Obama is counting on my taxes.
July 22nd, 2009 at 12:11 pm
This thread is starting to make me long for the days of duels…
July 22nd, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Woody, you set the tone long ago thinking that you’d get a pass with your crazy hatemongering statements about shit you either imagine liberals believe or that you spread as deliberate slander. You’re a pig. You have been since the day I first read your crazy deranged natterings here. You get what you deserve. And don’t lecture me about “profanity” when you post racist and homophobic slurs…that’s more obscene than anything I’ve ever put to words here. If you want to know why people hold you in such contempt, look in the mirror.
It’s also kind of fun to see the “radical anti-imperialist” (actually a nihilist, but no matter) Surge taking sides with Woody and Woody lecturing GMR for being a sap and defending the left. Strange bedfellows…
Woody posts the most outrageous, offensive shit and then he does this really creep Eddie Haskell routine, sucking up to his hosts. It’s another bit of evidence of how immature and cowardly he is.
July 22nd, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Does Woody sound like a third-grader rationalizing his bad behaviour by telling the teacher how bad the other boys have been ?
No ?
Okay – I’m wrong. A first-grader.
July 22nd, 2009 at 1:49 pm
i was going to say something but reg said it best on the post at 1:23 pm.
i actually…i know very weird of myself…followed all the links he left on a post one day…
he’s definitely on the intellectual level of flat earth god made the world in 7 day “birthers”
and he devalues marc’s posts. i end up just smirking over his absurdity than taking other people’s responses seriously
July 22nd, 2009 at 2:55 pm
What are we at now, 22 pleas for recognition?
What a lifetime zero.
July 22nd, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Sergio-
So what? You have 2 posts today whining about reg.–whoopee! Go away. I promise no one will miss you. k thx bye.
July 22nd, 2009 at 3:44 pm
For some crazy reason, Sergio reminds me of the guy dressed as a girl that did the `Leave Britney alone’ rant.
July 22nd, 2009 at 4:47 pm
I think this is Marc’s cue to comes in, and demand that everyone who has been arguing back and forth with put-downs and name-calling has to donate money via Paypal.
My question is – why do you guys indulge this moron troll? Why even address this simian by name?
July 22nd, 2009 at 6:18 pm
Ahmed: “And this is your man…..”
Ahmed, you have always tried to make one person responsible for the statements of another. You’ve done it on my blog numerous times and it is nothing more than a silly-assed attempt to sound erudite and oh so reasonable. But this is not about Woody.
This is about an asshole comment from someone you said you frequently supported. So, are you now responsible for what Sergio says? Your panty-waisted dumping of him, “The die soon though was gross” notwithstanding.
Woody, this is not about reg or you, this is about Sergio or anyone else that asks for someone to die. That is beyond the pale no matter how you slice it.
God-dammit folks, can’t we disagree honestly and call out the flaws in each others arguments without the nastiness? Is that really necessary? Or is that just how it is?
Sheesh!
And reg, you are absolutely right about Texas taxes and California taxes… that’s one reason Texas is the better place to live, has a constitutional mandate not to spend more than we make and our congress only sits 180 or so days out of every two years. But, if you decide to move to the better state, I’ll buy you a beer and help you unload your moving van!
July 22nd, 2009 at 6:38 pm
To quote from “passing through” this is now the freak show thread. And since we’ve devolved into talking about personalities, where is Balter he is really missed.
ps Marc let’s hear about the debate with my man Hedges. It doesnt seem like Truthdig has it up nor is it on youtube. Folks wanna know, son
July 22nd, 2009 at 6:40 pm
As I recall, Woody, I wrote ESAD without the link. So if you’re going to quote me, don’t add things in the quote without acknowledging so. That’s dishonest.
You’re right: I made a comment in anger after succumbing to your troll comment three years ago. Recently I’ve made an effort to be polite and your response was to hurl insults. Apparently with you it’s a matter of damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
As for your own history, there has been a long stream of your referring to me as psycho and any number of other insults. Somehow, you’re being an arbiter of taste and gentlemanly behavior is as sensible as John Yoo being made the UN’s Special Rapporteur on Torture.
On the other hand, while I disagree with just about all of GM’s political views, we’ve not insulted each other to my knowledge. It would not be unreasonable then, to attribute the problem to you.
Warm regards.
July 22nd, 2009 at 6:44 pm
‘This is about an asshole comment from someone you said you frequently supported. So, are you now responsible for what Sergio says? Your panty-waisted dumping of him, “The die soon though was gross” notwithstanding.”
I said he is funny sort of like a performance artist, who is so pissed at reg that he just writes a line or two without seemingly finding a need to explain it. I get a kick out of him and I dont mind it that once in awhile he reminds us that as this blogviating hasnt translated into a sensible health care program. Single payer. That said, the “die soon” was not funny and should be denounced. Good on you.
My problem is this. Your man, co blogger and homeboy has and continues to say ten times worse on a daily basis so to pretend now that all of a sudden you stand for civility is a stretch. I also remember you calling the president an anti semetic, jew hating, black supremist marxist, arab loving man or something like that. Im curious as to whether you’ve calmed down since then or at least got some good meds
July 22nd, 2009 at 6:50 pm
To change the direction of this stupid thread, please be informed that there has been another celebrity death which causes me greater grief than that of Michael Jackson. And, it may surprise you that this celebrity is Mexican.
Sad Celebrity Death
July 22nd, 2009 at 7:43 pm
Other diversions….
and
Let’s hear the excuses.
July 22nd, 2009 at 8:27 pm
GMR – I lived in Austin in 1965 for a minute and have often thought that it might have been a mistake to leave (went back to Chicago – which I also love, but wasn’t the coolest place back in the late ’60s.) But I’ve got a wonderful family in the Bay Area, a house, great work connections and a ton of friends – so I’m quite happy paying a bit more taxes to maintain California – especially the Bay Area – as one of the most hospitable places on the planet. The reason we have so many “problems” is because so many people want to live here. Paris ain’t cheap either…
July 22nd, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Randy – Woody is digging up stuff from three years ago ? That’s incredible. (“Incredible” is, in this instance, spelled p-a-t-h-o-l-o-g-i-c-a-l. Or maybe just “OCD.”)
July 22nd, 2009 at 11:42 pm
it all stops here. marc 99 percent of the time posts things that should give rise to heated but sincere debate. and when every spectrum of the political ilk is welcome….well can you all only imagine if nietzsche, an aristocratic radical, were here debating karl marx or gramsci? do you all know what that would look like? i’d cut off my left nut to read that here.
again and again i say this, i only tune in here because it was about 8 years ago that marc was opening me up to all different ideas…and it wasn’t paperboard liberalism. it was liberalism..what ever that fucking stupid term means..that had a nasty tongue, a tongue that was not submissive and did not follow the party line. i think he wanted to carve a way for real and meaningful and intelligent change.
like maybe the promise of allende. maybe. even marc would’ve been highly critical of. actually i know so. because change can not come about unless there is real, brutal intellectual dialogue.
and the right leaning thoughts should be welcomed…i mean aristotle, nietzsche. those are real right leaning philosophers that you can cut your teeth into.
but these right wing nuts in america. you’re dumb as fuck. nietzsche wrote, concerning the conservatives of his time (and trust me, he was no lefty in the sense of the term of what it would mean back then) but he said of conservatives: it’s the party that makes you want to walk backwards.
can anyone say woody?
or the birthers?
maybe marc should be,…..nah let the idiots speak.
cause when they do, it only justifies the mission of being rational all the more.
July 22nd, 2009 at 11:57 pm
i actually stand behind obama even more now, even if the health care plan might not be perfect, or actually might be flawed to the core…just to the watch the right wingers talk like they cared about health care. like they cared about people. our people. our people whose name they evoke when they want to go off to fight a war in iraq that was based upon all lies. anybody here ever watch a person die and have all the bills be sent to the grieving family afterwards? and how that sent them into debt beyond belief? and we are supposed to just accept that? to let the party of morality tell us that is ok?
but guns god and church are FUCKING GODDAMN SACRED?
please. the left should fight hard against these crippled intellects, these haters of america.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:56 am
reg, gotta agree with you vis-a-vis Austin (damn son, that’s two or three times we’ve agreed… a record). Moving there in December to be closer to grandson and open a new practice dealing with chronic pain… so, might have to come to Marc’s place here just to get more practice on you progressives.
July 23rd, 2009 at 6:15 am
Justin, you just won’t quit attacking me personally and you won’t give it up for even a moment’s peace. reg keeps it up, even more.
The problem on these threads isn’t about what I say but all about the raving, lunatic responses and attacks from those on the Left.
Why can’t your guys either ignore what I say or just simply disagree with rational and honest thought? Why? Because you have an agenda and the only way that you think that you can prevail is to insult and drive off conservatives and moderates who see flaws in your ideas.
Don’t blame me. You believe in change? Change and clean up your own house.
July 23rd, 2009 at 6:39 am
Woody, this has been said to you a million times: start engaging here seriously, and you will be taken seriously. Act the troll, and you will be treated as a troll. Why is this so hard for you to understand? It’s very, very simple. Honestly.
Unfortunately, your chronic behavior suggests either you don’t understand something this simple, or, more likely, you enjoy being belligerent, superficial, and childish. That’s your choice, and one with consequences: you will continue to be treated as a child here. See? Very simple.
I am almost certain I have wasted two minutes composing an explanation that has been expressed to you ad nauseam over the last several years(!). But you need to hear it again. And I hope that eventually it will sink in.
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:10 am
Samuel, your troll is another’s reasoned commenter. Frankly, you guys simply get emotional and rabid when you’re shown to be wrong.
However, if I accept your argument that I’m to blame for your bad behavior, then you must agree that the boy who flaunted his homosexuality by wearing dresses, makeup, and high heels to school, was resonsible for his own death by driving another kid to murder him. Or, do you?
One difference between that murdered kid and me is that he knew that he was dealing with people of teenage mentality and I assumed that I wasn’t.
I hope I didn’t waste two minutes explaining this to you, but I probably did.
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:12 am
Hey check this out. Our old friend Steve has an article up over at Alex’s domain
http://www.counterpunch.org/philion02272008.html
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:32 am
Thanks, Ahmed! I wondered what happened to good ol’ steve, but that interview is a year-and-a-half old.
Go ask steve about anti-war protestors spitting on returning Vietnam vets!
More: The Myth of the Spat Upon Vets
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:28 am
“However, if I accept your argument that I’m to blame for your bad behavior”
I stopped reading here, because of your faulty premise. Re-think what you’re saying, respond honestly, and try again. You need to decide for yourself if you’re going to be a troll or commenter–no one else is going to do it for you.
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:50 am
Samuel, give it up.
The problem is with your typical liberal tolerance of everything bad and no tolerance of conservatism. You are what you are, so the best thing is for you to quit focusing on me and try to focus on the subject.
Walter Cronkite has died.
If he went to Heaven, he’s meeting dead Vietnam vets upon whom he led encouragement for the anti-war protestors to spit.
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:12 am
Stephen Philion – Note the link to an NPR interview of steve concerning workers’ protests in China. This raises NPR to new heights.
July 23rd, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Woody, you’ve made your choice, apparently: trolldom. You’ve been playing the same games here for years, and no one expects this to change. But what also doesn’t change is that no one takes anything you say seriously. That’s trolldom. I’m not sure why you waste your time doing this, as it seems rather fruitless.
At the very least, you should no longer be surprised why you are treated as a child here.
July 23rd, 2009 at 12:51 pm
Samuel, a child calls other people names rather than discuss issues.
I assume that you will address reg next and tell him that he will be treated as a child — unless, you agree that calling people names represents mature discussion, in which case you are no better than him and your opinion of me means nothing.
We’ve been down this road several times, with some of you insisting that Marc ban me. However, Marc, to his credit, has said that he won’t censor ideas and views, but he has said a multiple of times to cut out the personal attacks that have driven so many away from this site.
Make your choice, and then quit hassling me.
July 23rd, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Reg established himself as a regular and valued contributor on this site long, long ago, and for a simple reason: he makes informative comments. What he doesn’t do is endlessly repeat vacuous partisan generalizations (“Conservatives blah blah blah, while Liberals blah blah blah blah”). And you know what? It actually makes for informative reading, whether one agrees with his specific points or not, and therefore contributes much to the conversation.
You, on the other hand, for reasons known only to yourself, insist on the vacuous slogan route. As I mentioned above, I have no idea why, since no one here learns anything from what you have to say. Trust me: if they did, you would be well received.
You seem to fancy yourself some kind of gadfly, or truth-teller, but the truth is that we already know all of your “arguments”: you’re just re-hashing talking points that we’ve heard many times before. This is another reason why you come across as an un-serious poster and troll.
I’m not sure why you insist on this approach, since “conservative” arguments (an important distinction from boring partisan sloganeering) are, like “liberal” arguments, ideas that can be debated and discussed. This would be a much more effective approach–you must realize this, right?
And as far as the “name-calling” is concerned, I think you might need to find another place to comment if you don’t have a thick enough skin to handle profanity. Our esteemed host can cuss with the best of ‘em, and we enjoy it. I think I even read a guttural “God-dammit” from our clean-tongued friend Mr. Roper up above
So your fixating on this name-calling thing is a bit odd given this blog’s history, and Marc’s embrace of the salty side of the English language.
July 23rd, 2009 at 2:28 pm
zzzzzzzz.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:09 pm
Ok. No one really cares if Walter is dead.
This news item is riveting:
http://www.theroot.com/views/lawyers-statement-arrest-henry-louis-gates-jr
That is the lawyers statement so you get the full picture.
In another article its mentioned that black Harvard students and professors have been harrassed in similar fashion.
Is there no end to this shit?
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Justin, you are righteous.
July 23rd, 2009 at 5:09 pm
Samuel, read this. Forty-five years later Hofstadter’s words ring true with Mr. McNair.
July 23rd, 2009 at 5:34 pm
Samuel, you just don’t get it…you don’t get it at all. And, now Randy chimes in with his nonsense.
It’s not about being thick-skinned. I can take it and have. It’s about you and reg and Randy having the intellectual ability to discuss matters on their merits rather than your resorting to name-calling as your primary defense.
If you don’t like my arguments, then fine. Ignore them. Just ignore them.
I say what comes to mind when I see the news. I don’t have to wait to get my talking points. But, a large number of conservatives agree with me, and it’s not like you know more or are more educated than them or me.
Now, can you just drop it? You get sillier and sillier with each response. And, it’s really boring.
July 23rd, 2009 at 5:52 pm
Obama – ‘stars are aligned’ for healthcare reform
I couldn’t believe it when I heard Obama say this in his speech. Has he consulted Nancy Reagan’s astrologer, called the Dionne Warwick psychic hotline, or consulted his Magic 8 ball?
Obama’s urgent and extremely important” speeches on health care are providing no information and are <b.boring. Maybe it would have helped him if he had ever read the bill, which he hasn’t.
Maybe the stars told him that his “transparent” administation should block information to the public. Democrats Block GOP Health Care Mailing Didn’t the death of Hillary-care come about in large part because of her secrecy on it?
Obama’s socialist medicine plan is pulling up to the emergency room and appears DOA. Good!
July 23rd, 2009 at 5:55 pm
It’s not about being thick-skinned. I can take it and have. It’s about you and reg and Randy having the intellectual ability to discuss matters on their merits rather than your resorting to name-calling as your primary defense.
You’ve called me psycho, asked if I was touched inappropriately as a child, called me stupid, pseudo-intellectual and a host of other names. You’ve called others far worse.
Why, then, do you persist in acting as if you are as pure as driven snow, when anyone can clearly scan the comments section and see the sweeping generalizations, insults and any huge number of ad hominem comments directed towards anyone with the temerity to say what you are saying is utter nonsense?
I can’t honestly remember you ever making an argument on its merits.
Is your level of denial that great? Do you believe that you live in an alternative universe in which everyone else is guilty of ad hominem comments while you can make the same sort of comments with impunity, simply because your insults are devoid profanity?
I will fess up to my sins and they have been more than a few. You, however, have unclean hands in this regard as well, yet you refuse to take responsibility for them.
Speaks volumes about you.
July 23rd, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Woody, I’m telling you like it is: you’ll be taken seriously when you make serious comments. Since you don’t, you aren’t. It’s a simple as that. So what ends up happening, is that you have a dialogue with yourself, posting silly and partisan links, until someone like reg or Dan O calls you on it. (Why reg indulges you, I don’t know, but ironically he’s the only person who’s wasted his time taking you “seriously”).
And regarding your saying “what comes to mind”, perhaps that’s the problem. No one wants to hear your knee-jerk reactions to the news, particularly when they consist of sarcastic, frivolous, partisan remarks. Why would anyone want that, particularly on a blog as interesting as Marc’s? So you don’t get taken seriously, and are treated as such. When you continue the incessant and childish baiting, repeating your superficial partisan arguments (analogous to blasting “Fuck the Police” in a gas station parking lot with your windows down), people here get annoyed. Most of us are generally too polite to walk over to you and hand you your ass. But not all of us.
You have a huge, huge blind-spot. Or else you take an unhealthy pleasure in derailing discussion (i.e., trolldom). Either way, the result is that you offer nothing useful to the conversations here. You know it, I know it, the rest of us know it. And you won’t be taken seriously until you change that.
July 23rd, 2009 at 6:11 pm
You guys(?) are like women who follow you around the house, up and down the stairs, bitching and moaning and not letting whatever it is drop. I’m going to my man cave, so don’t follow me.
July 23rd, 2009 at 6:15 pm
No it’s not that. We were trying to appeal to your good sense. Silly of us to think you had any.
July 23rd, 2009 at 7:15 pm
“I’m going to my man cave, so don’t follow me.”
Your surrender is accepted. Hat tip to Samuel and Randy and a few others for pinning the dude down.
July 23rd, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Marc – haven’t heard from you in a while. Hopefully it’s because A. you’re really busy doing important things about stuff, or B. you’re very busy having too much fun.
At one of my favorite watering holes in Motown I had a brief conversation with a journalism undergrad from Wayne State. I asked this bartender/student what he thought of his chances of landing a job in journalism and he said he had no chance. He was going to try to parlay is Journalism degree into a gig with a PR firm. A bit sad but perhaps understandable. One of his profs is Jack Lessenberry who had this to say about Walter Cronkite:
http://metrotimes.com/news/story.asp?id=14198
In the same issue, there’s this gem by Curt Guyette (Metrotimes News Editor) about how the major dailies — the Free Press & News — have played a significant role in Dave Bing’s coronation into the run-off for Mayor. The last 10 paragraphs beautifully argue why this this shouldn’t be.
http://metrotimes.com/news/story.asp?id=14201
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:57 pm
GM,
My fat friend. You really show your total lack of self-awareness almost whenever you write something. To lecture anyone about civility is just a tad bit of a stretch. You blog is a shit whipe of right wing paranoid lunacy. All sorts of bad manners mixed in with you and Woody’s latent homosexual fantasies found in your constant need to prove your tough guy manhood. GM, my friend, you really need to spend some time reading the bile that your write.
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:44 pm
Samuel Says:
Samuel, I wish that were true, but my experience as a conservative commenter is that serious comments are met with immediate vile insults, especially from reg.
Reg is one of the most vile commenters I have encountered on the net, and that’s saying something, since my internet activity goes back 25 years. His approach to my comments has always been immediately and viciously and profanely hostile.
I disagree with Marc on almost everything, but I respect him for his intellect and humanity (and great writing). Reg fails utterly on the second of those. Oh, and I love it that Marc the Marxist has a nice suburban lifestyle and can ideologically justify it (with a bit of a grin if you look closely).
Conservatives learned long ago that posting on left-wing sites is asking for vicious, nasty personal attacks, no matter the subject.
In fact (and I mean this in all seriousness), it’s interesting to many that left wing blog comment sections tend to show far more hatred than right wing blog comment sections (not that any are a place for the timid).
I’m not going to comment much on Woody’s behavior, other than to say that while I agree with much of what Woody says and know his frustrations, I think some of his recent posts do fall way into the troll category. If he keeps moving in that direction, he will approach a significant fraction of reg’s trolldom.
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:47 pm
As for the situation in Cronkite… he betrayed us with his lies about Vietnam – starting with his shameless behavior during Tet (including pretending to be in danger while at a rooftop bar in Saigon). I too marched against the war, as a Vietnam Veteran who felt we should get out if we weren’t willing to win (and because it was a fun thing to do – the primary motivation of 90% of the attendees).
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:34 pm
woody says:
You guys(?) are like women who follow you around the house, up and down the stairs, bitching and moaning and not letting whatever it is drop. I’m going to my man cave, so don’t follow me.
i would love it if you stay there in your “man cave”
July 24th, 2009 at 3:17 am
John Moore:
I hate to add now to what has become the daily tedious hijacking of Marc’s threads, but you protest too much.
Woody acts in bad faith. It’s that simple. You know it. We all know it. Woody knows it because he does it on purpose.
Now you two stand there with your mouths agape, hands delicately placed on your chest, indignant like a couple of Victorian prudes. Please.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:40 am
It’s interesting that an person who wrote in his blog that New York Times journalists should be shot for treason and rattles on about Walter Cronkite “betraying his country” could assert that I make some of the most vile comments on the internet.
Neither Moore nor Woody has ever been worth the effort expended in countering their crap. They’re extraordinarily limited individuals who function as self-parodies of clownish, ultimately vile contemporary wingnut “conservatism.”
Taking out the trash with these midgets has become too easy and boring beyond belief. Oh…and to keep this in appropriate context, they can go fuck themselves.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:14 am
I also have to say that one of the reasons I went dismissively profane with Woody – and Moore and the like – way back when is because they think they can hold me to “polite” or “civil” discourse while they glibly and serially demean liberals’ patriotism and love of country – along with a whole host of other slimy, wacko charges that are pre-conditions to any “argument” or “analysis” they might have tried to pass off here. That doesn’t play with me. My feelings about this country and my experience living here are fundamental to me. Don’t come at me with some reductive horseshit you’ve cribbed from the John Birch Society or some such and tell me that I have to be as stupid and unreflective as you are to love America. I can’t think of a grosser insult to the very idea of patriotism, much less to the nation.
As soon as you go there, you’ve dirtied the conversation. You’ve engaged in intellectual and verbal profanity and dragged the discourse to the gutter. And you deserve a verbal kick back in the balls, because you’ve already started punching below the belt. At that point, fuck you ! Unfortunately, more often than not, that’s Woody’s starting point. Some folks, like Celeste who I admire for her cool and generosity, will still maintain a polite demeanor when confronted with that garbage. That’s not me. And when Woody whines about that reaction or acts like, in supreme bad faith, hasn’t already poisoned the atmosphere with bigoted bullshit that’s more vile and offensive than a couple of f-bombs or s-heads he’s being dishonest, cowardly and – if I were to put it in overtly sexist terms I try to avoid but for Woody’s benefit that he might “get” – acting like a little girl. When I call Woody a shithead, it’s because he’s demonstrated by his own hand, time and time again, that he’s a shithead – and a shameless one.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:20 am
You guys, especially reg, remain stupid — very stupid.
It’s not so much that the vile talk is offensive, and the Lord knows that I’ve tolerated plenty of it. The problem is that your vile talk represents the core of your arguments, which means that your arguments are worthless.
If only you would respond in honest debate (yes, I know it’s hard for you), discussions would be more meaningful and you might not look upon conservative points that you can’t beat as troll-like but maybe see value in them and a sincere desire to debate an issue.
I’m not the only person in this country who shares conservative values and holds dear individual liberties over group identity and government control. Wouldn’t it better to understand that and to learn from it than to drive conservatives off of this site?
What drew me to Marc’s blog was his even-handedness on matters and his open attitude that not all liberal solutions are valid. What gives you guys the nerve and authority to proclaim that Marc’s site is dedicated to the Left only?
Also, reg screeching ad nauseum that he has beaten my arguments despite the lack of substance, even when ommitting cursing, as he did with the health care issue, borders more on troll-speak than the logical and fact-based arguments that I presented. Don’t point fingers at me just because I refuse to budge over repetitive and meaningless chanting and slogans like that.
But, so far you have continued on like the liberals you are, who think that, if your solutions to a problem don’t work, you need more of whatever those solutions are rather than change course; e.g. if pouring money on a problem doesn’t help, use more money. If cursing Woody doesn’t stop him, then curse more.
You’ve heard that insansity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Most of you fall into that category.
And, yes, reg. It’s true, liberals typically disdain patriotism and mock conservatives who show pride in their nation and its military. The yellow ribbons have been a typical laughing point for you.
For all of you, admission of your own sickness is a better step to being cured than cursing the doctor who diagnosed the disease.
Change your own attitudes and you might see change in how you view the responses.
But, if you go on with more of your attacks and blaming, then you will have proved that one can’t reason with liberals. In that case, I will simply stick with my points and not fall into that insanity category of trying to debate with you and expect different results.
Learn and grow or remain what you have been.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:44 am
Woody – you’re dishonest and childish to the very core of your being. Also, you’re too stupid to know when your idiotic crap has been soundly trashed. Or you’re not enough of a man to admit that you’ve said or linked to things that are indefensible on reflection. That would be sad if I gave a shit about you. I don’t. You’re trash.
I’m done with you on this thread. You’ve proven beyond a doubt by your own hand that my low opinion of you is justified.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:56 am
Why can’t we be friends, why can’t we…
Oh, never mind.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:02 am
Running Tally
Learn and Grow – 0
Stubborn and Stupid – 1
- – -
Another lying poll?
July 24th, 2009 at 7:35 am
“zzzzzzzz.”
Thanks Serge for the most informative comment since.
OK, a hat tip to Anna for trying to wake us up.
On that issue Anna, and Mr. President, shouldn’t we wait for the evidence to determine who was behaving more racist? I understand there are ‘tapes’.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:46 am
http://www.theroot.com/views/lawyers-statement-arrest-henry-louis-gates-jr
Marc, please blog on the Henry Louis Gates debacle.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:48 am
Rasmussen tends to be an outlier.
This, by the way, is what we call proof.Several polls show radically different numbers than Rasmussen.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:50 am
Jim R. what is so wonderful about you knee jerk right wing racists is that despite mountains and years of evidence to the contrary you will insist that even a bespeckled, internationally known academic is somehow guilty of breaking into his OWN house and his justified outrage of how the police treated him and some cunt who was walking by seeing him–A MIDDLE AGED BLACK MAN IN A FUCKING SUIT–struggling with a stuck door and calls 911 to report a break in.
You are a pathetic piece of shit and all like you. The man was at his OWN house and was descended upon. There are no disputes of the facts.
Grow one, you moron.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:03 am
This isnt a left or right issue but an issue of human rights and a glaring further indictment of the Cambridge police department who, apparently have been stalking black Harvard students and faculty– the few that there are. And if you know anything about the vile endemic racism in the white working class males around that area of Mass–which you obviously dont–or assume that its normal–that shows further what an ignorant jerk you are.
Just once, Jim R, show that you have a shred of intelligence and try to look at a news incident without troweling on the Fux “facts”. Try to use common sense.
a middle aged man in business attire is seen in broad daylight struggling with a front door. Does that mean you call the police?
Havent you ever struggled with your front door– had a lock problem or its stuck?
Why would that stupid cunt of a woman have called the police?
Because she was a stupid racist cunt of a woman and saw a black man struggling with a door in a middle class neighborhood and assumed he must be a criminal. Despite logic saying that he hardly lookded the type and it was midday in view of all to see.
Tapes? what tapes? If Gates had gotten a baseball bat and bashed the cop over the head he would have been justified.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:14 am
And keep remembering while you spin the facts that HE WAS ON HIS OWN DOOR STEP AND THEN IN HIS OWN HOME WHEN THE POLICE DESCENDED. NOT ONE BUT THEN A WHOLE RAFT OF THEM. HE WAS MADE TO PROVE HE WAS WHO HE WAS DESPITE ANSWERING THE DOOR OF HIS OWN HOME AND A LOAD OF OTHER SQUAD CARS DESCENDED ON HIS HOUSE.
For what? Do you think that Harvard police arent going to know that he is a well known black man and thats his house? You think police departments in areas where there are high profile people and a high profile institution that constantly has high profile visitors arent going to be apprised of who is who?
July 24th, 2009 at 8:23 am
http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/003027.html
July 24th, 2009 at 9:58 am
AC: “If Gates had gotten a baseball bat and bashed the cop over the head he would have been justified.”
Talk about stupid statements.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:16 am
“Talk about stupid statements.”
And what precisely gives you the right to judge what Gates appropriate reaction should have been, you being a white man who would never encounter such a situation with the cops and therefore don’t know the feeling of being profiled or harassed because you’re black
July 24th, 2009 at 10:30 am
A gem from Sergio’s link
“Don’t misconstrue my target here. It’s neither the caller nor the cop. It’s the people who accept that living in a police state is a small price to pay for our security. It’s the people for whom authority is something not to challenge, but to defer to. I see that among my own undergrads. And it’s gotten worse over the years. It’s the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics in reverse: slouching toward tyranny.”
July 24th, 2009 at 10:37 am
Its interesting that the CNN story on the internet where I first saw the item ( I never watch TV news and Comcast cable has banished MSNBC to some channel in another galaxy that would cost some foolish sum to get–and since its all trash anyway…) (The issue of Comcast banishing MSNBC from their $60 package…but of course leaving CNN and Fux has raised the ire of one woman in our region to file suit. They also, apparently, banished one of the PBS stations sometime ago. Its thought to be a political move. Duh)
…anyway: the CNN story was so oblique only glaring that Gates was arrested and conveniently left out how or why. And it was really hard to find the copy that actually gave any details.
Wonder how Walter would have reported the item. Would he have been honest the facts?
July 24th, 2009 at 10:45 am
There’s a sale on snowcones today in Hades, and I’m going to agree with Roper. Ahmed, you can’t actually believe that Gates would have been justified in bashing the cop with a baseball bat. That’s so stupid and childish it’s beyond belief.
Roper would probably disagree with me on whether the incident ended “stupidly” from the perspective of professional police work and smart community relations. Maybe not. Stranger coincidences have happened here. But you’re engaging in puerile nonsense by defending that bit of hysteria. GMR doesn’t have to have experienced racial profiling to know that assaulting a cop in that situation would not only not be”Justified” but totally fucking insane. This is an area where someone who doesn’t have certain experiences should tread lightly when discussing, but tagging that wild assertion as “stupid” doesn’t require a Ghetto PhD. It was obviously ultra-hyperbolic, at best – but not even useful hyperbole that throws light on a rational POV. Yes, it was stupid.
(Go over to Ta-Nehisi Coates blog, follow the discussion there for a wide range of useful discourse on this event – and get a fucking grip. If anyone had posted a comment like that in the course of the extensive discussion, TNC – and the rest of the African-American commenters – would be the first to tell them they’re broadcasting from another planet.)
July 24th, 2009 at 10:59 am
I have to agree with Reg, here and GM as well. From a legal standpoint, if Gates had done that and had been arrested for so doing, indicted and gone to trial, the only thing that probably would have gotten him acquitted – absent any procedural error or chicanery by the prosecutor – would have been jury nullification.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:00 am
Despite one’s views of Rasmussen, I think that we can all agree that the trend line of Obama’s approval rating is on a downward course and that approval for his programs is waning.
The Gallup oranization tends to give favorable headlines to Obama rather than report its data purely objectively. However, they have a longer history which makes for some useful comparisons among Presidents.
Presidential approval tracker
Obama has fallen behind Jimmy Carter at the same point in his Presidency. Help us all if his misery index tops Carter’s.
- – -
This doesn’t help Obama. It sure took the wind out of his sails for government takeover of health care.
Yeah, right. Obama wasn’t off-base. The only people who are wrong are those who reported and reacted to his statement. Anyone who criticizes Obama must be doing it because he’s a black man…well, at least half-black.
Next….
Obama: No Apology — Obama says he continues to believe there was an ‘overreaction’ in arresting Harvard’s Gates.
Gates acted like a raving madman when law enforcement attempted to protect his house, and Obama makes things worse for the police and race relations with his knee-jerk response unfitting for a President.
- – -
Ahmed, this is for you.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Incidentally, it is much less likely that a black person who experienced racial profiling in “the hood” on a regular basis would have allowed that situation to escalate into an arrest – a false and totally unjustifible arrest, such as it was – than an elite Harvard professor. Skip Gates has written articles – published in the NYTimes, for one – lecturing black folks from the lower echelons that they need to get their shit together and learn appropriate English and the proper “codes” if they are going to succeed in predominantly white institutions. In fact, somebody from those lower echelons would have been doing him a favor if they’d spent an hour with the esteemed brother from Harvard and explained to him how you survive bullshit and/or annoying encounters with cops so that you don’t end up getting dragged down to the station just because you pissed off some guy who can counter any display of attitude by arresting you (or knocking you over the head if there aren’t any witnesses around.) Gates acted stupid and the cop acted stupid. The difference is that the cop was in his professional element and Gates was being hassled on his own property, even after he showed ID, and was probably jet-lagged and in a bad mood. So the cop’s “stupid” is way worse. But I can guarantee a thousand or more instances of much more serious harrassment, including folks getting bashed and busted with little or no recourse, have happened since Professor Gates’ got treated like an average black dude and sucked the oxygen out of our newsrooms with his indignation.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:03 am
Oops, here is the corrected link for Ahmed: LINK.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:06 am
Fuck the police union on this, incidentally. If the cop in question didn’t act “stupidly”, how come the charges were immediately dropped. A more professional and cooler cop would have walked away from this, even if he felt that Gates was being a jerk – which he probably was. Cuffing him and arresting him on his front porch for a non-crime – not showing the deference the officer expected – was a display of typical police arrogance. Total bullshit that reflects very poorly on the union when they defend it. They’re asking for folks to hold them in contempt as a boys club protecting their own, whether it makes sense from the perspective of the public that pays them or not.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:08 am
Reg, there you go again with being literal. First of all, since you aren’t black and can’t imagine what that might feel like– having the indignity of that kind of assault…now in the year of Obama 2009 you are a hollow, hollow man. It is precisely the type of incident that would cause anyone to just explode. The fact is all he did was have a normal reaction to an abnormal and outrageous assault on his rights and dignity.
Reg, you come across as a usually decent man but you have quite a talent for invalidation. You reduce what is very serious down by a series of rationalizations so you are left with nothing human in the situation. And the situations are all caused by humans.
You are going off into a whole pedantic discourse and quoting what people in an African American blog might think of a comment made here.
Just react as a man, reg. With a sense of outrage. There is no reducing this incident down to some pedantic exercise.
The man was violated by racist cops. End of story.
And by the way…cases have been made in defense of otherwise, law abiding people blowing their tops when driven to by extraordinary circumstances.
Try to imagine yourself as someone like Louis Gates. Just try. And then have that bullshit come down on you.
In fact, take black out of the equation and you still have an outrageous assault. Look at the facts of the situation. He was already IN HIS HOUSE when the cops came. HE ANSWERED THE DOOR. Gee, maybe he wasnt a burgler after all. THen the cops kept at him even after he produced identification. So what if he then yelled. Whe wouldn’t. Only a robot wouldnt. And also if you do happen to be Louis Gates or someone high profile and you know you havent done jack shit wrong you know you can raise a stink with impunity.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:14 am
I’m not sure that the policeman’s actions were “way worse stupid.” Prof. Gates copped an attitude. The policeman just took him to school for it.
Next time, send a non-prejudiced snarling police dog into the house to get information.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Anna – don’t defend your stupid statement. You’re sounding like….oh shit…Woody !!!
July 24th, 2009 at 11:18 am
Dropping the charges against Gates was a wise judgment call on what made sense and was politically expedient — not any repudiation that Gates acted like an idiot.
However, if Gates has any problem with rich blacks being treated better than poor blacks, then he should go back to the police station and insist on being jailed.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:19 am
“The policeman just took him to school for it.”
Even assuming the worst about Gates, that’s a ridiculous argument. Totally fucking unprofessional on the cop’s part. But you’ve got to defend that bullshit because it’s the only way you can perpetuate your compulsive attacks on Obama.
That’s my polie response. That said, I also mus note tha you’re a racist little prick with your fucking joke about the police dogs.
Just shut the fuck up. You’ve got nothing to add to these discussions that any sane person could possibly take seriously.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:20 am
OMG, reg, now you go off on Gates for talking down to the “brothers” as some excuse for his letting his emotions get the better of him in a shocking situation. You completely ignore the reality of the situation and start judging it with all this political/sociological horse shit.
Is Gates a criminal? No. End of story. Was he in a suspicious place doing something suspicious? No. The only political/sociological horse shit is that he is black and so some bitch decided that he and another black man–the cab driver–were suspicious in broad daylight in a middle class neighbor hood trying to get into HIS door.
Don’t go off on what you think is how the “brothers’ might feel. You couldn’t possibly know. Just try to be human for a moment and think how YOU would feel if minding your own business and that sort of assault happened.
And where do you get off calling Gates’ reactions “stupid”. You moron! All he did was REACT. He was sitting in front of his computer being an arm chair critic.
As we used to be told in acting class: stay in the moment.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:20 am
uh…that’s “polite” and “must”…sorry.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:21 am
correction: he WASN”T sitting in front of his computer….
July 24th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Anna,
A friendly suggestion: hyperbole is a rhetorical device most effectively used on occasion, not as your everyday discourse.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:28 am
John Kerry must be advising Obama. Obama is doing flip-flops, sort of. Obama said that his choice of words was wrong but not that what he intended was wrong.
Obama says regrets remark in racially charged case
Oh, great. Talk about acting stupidly. Get those two drunk and let the real fighting begin.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:29 am
The statement was a manner of speech, reg, and you know it. Its also very close to the truth. You are a man who continually rationalizes behavior and probably makes a lot of people angry by always diminishing the truth of people’s righteous anger. That is an infuriating trait in and of itself.
Great fiction has been written about decent men who have been driven to terrible violence by a last straw of indignity being heaped upon them.
How you can even suggest Gates did anything stupid is incredible. Given the circumstances where he was accosted in his own home because someone reported he was trying to get into it.
Tant pis.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Woody, go shove your head back up your ass.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Forget the police dog and the police then, reg. Send over firemen with their high pressure hoses to flush out possible burglars. What difference would it make? Obama and Gates want to liken all public safety officers to Bull Conner.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:33 am
Randy, your patronizing gibber hardly adds anything. And since when is it hyperbolic to suggest the comments stick to the FACTS rather than windy, pointless rhetoric?
July 24th, 2009 at 11:33 am
Anna – I absolutely believe the arrest was totally unjustified and the act of a resentful cop, acting totally out of bounds and “unprofessionally”, dragging his department and fellow officers into his own personal psychological issues. Beyond that, I’m assuming that Gates is an adult and generally able to act strategically and rationally. He would have better served himself had he done that in this situation. Apparently he didn’t. I think a lot of his resentment was class-based – he’s also used to a certain amount of deference. Inciddentally, don’t tell me I couldn’t possibly know about shit like this because it happened to me several times in Chicago in the late ’60s when longhairs were routinely subjected to police harrassment – especially after ’68 when scores were being settled. I was young and stupid, but after I got busted once for shooting off my mouth – even though I was in the right by any objective measure. But that was a lack of street smarts – acting stupid, assuming I have a survival instiinct, not evidence that I was righteously “in the moment” or “showing them I’m a man.” In fact Anna, I think you’re arm-chairing this thing. My wife’s kids deal with this shit all the time. They wouldn’t go into an “I’ve got a college degree – who do you thing you are?” mode – they’d chill and not give an asshole an opportunity to prove he had more power in the situation than they do. They’ve been schooled by family because they don’t live in some cloistered compound. The oldest doesn’t even drive at night in certain areas to avoid this bullshit, even though it’s inconvenient. Nobody tells him, “give that cop a piece of your mind if he stops you.” That’s fucking suicidal and most black men know it.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Woody, shove your head back up your ass.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Sorry, correct the spelling to Bull Connor.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:38 am
I’m destined not to win any outrage contest with Anna. Guess I’m a wuss…
July 24th, 2009 at 11:47 am
I would to reconcile the postions Reg and Anna. I tend to agree with the former that to a great extent the reaction of Gates (a member of the “talented tenth”, no?) and for that matter Obama, the seething anger, the conctept was surely class based. We are after all talking about a guy who filmed a documentary about Africa where he consitently walked around in some knitted t shirt, with a Harvard logo attached. It’s the anger and resentment of someone with priveledge being treated like another nigga, and being associated with a mass of people, he in some ways has tried to create a distance from. Reg, too, a smart fella, is right about the codes and strategies emplyed by different people dependng on circumstances. On how folks at the bottom who may face harrassment on a daily basis learn to deal with it to protect themselves and others and how far away Gates is from that reality. Word.
That said Anna, too, is right. Her indignation is nothing if not a cry from the heart. All that pedantic bullshit, all these strategies are based on an undersranding of how this world operates, about blacks as suspect anmd dangerous about defenrece and power. But fuck that world. Anna was speaking in metaphorical, not literal language. In a just world, a world which we should begin to start imagining Gates would be in his right to tell the cop to fuck off or worst. Thats what Anna is saying.
ps As for the racist baiting, troll Woody if he lived in another time I have little doubt that he would be with those blocking blacks from entering schools, apologising for the bombing of churches and the like. His humanity is corrupted and his very essence would be an assault against a man he claims to worship–Jessus Christ.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:50 am
And since when is it hyperbolic to suggest the comments stick to the FACTS rather than windy, pointless rhetoric?
It’s hyperbolic when you believe that an appropriate response to a bogus arrest is to bash someone over the head.
If you believe that isn’t “windy and pointless”, then both you and Woody are grossly lacking in self-awareness.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Oh reg, now your being a “long hair” makes you an expert on racism. give me a fucking break. and you are dragging Gates’ social standing into the mix as a way of trying to make a meal out of the incident and suggesting that he should have controlled his emotions because everyone knows a black man is always a target and because he was an uppity black man he felt he should have had been shown some respect. Man you just fall right into every fucking trap.
The issue is an asshole, racist piece of shit felt he had the right to harass citizen with no cause. He showed no judgment and deliberately forced the confrontation to humiliate. The cop knows all he has to do is act surly and he will get someone to react in a situation like that so he can create a false arrest.
Yes, we all know you dont give a cop an opportunity to accuse you of being belligerent or resisting. We have all shuffled for the man when getting stopped for ticket if not something else. The circumstances in this instance were he knew he hadnt done anything wrong and that the police were in clear violation. ANd he was pissed and he did bring to the mix a supra conscious awareness of these types of incidents and his position and in a small part of his brain knew he could make a fuss. But to be honest I think he just acted human and fumed.
And as a “long hair” you knew you were in a context that was going to create a confrontation with the police so mouthing off was stupid. you were not minding your own business on your own door step trying to get into your own house. big difference.
if you go to a protest rally you know the police are looking for any excuse to bash the shit out of you. Thats why i have only been to one . Ever. And it made me sick to feel herded by scores of anti riot police all along the protest route. It felt stupid. And that was in 2001 in England.
And never mind a black man mouthing off to a cop were they to be stopped on the street or in a car…if you are white you will also get nailed.
So we are back to the point that this was an outrage of such monumental proportions given that there was no indication of any wrong doing or suspicious circumstances. It was clearly a cop being an asshole and he should be taken down.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Incidentally, since he was responding to a 911, I don’t think the cop was wrong to knock on Gates door, ask a few questions or ask for ID. Where he was wrong was not either taking Gate’s understandable indignation at being hassled in his own house in stride or actively defusing it, not recognizing the obvious racial component implicit in these exchanges – even when they are innocent on both parties side – and once it was established that Gates was the legal resident, showing the kind of self-confidence and rationality that would say – even if Gates was shouting at him, which we don’t know – this guy’s an asshole but I’m not going to feed his anger by being the asshole he’s assuming I am. If a cop doesn’t have the common sense to do that, he shouldn’t be on the force. As soon as Gates showe him the ID, the cop was, in effect, trespassing on someone else’s property and should have conducted himself with absolute discretion. Gates broke no law….that’s the bottom line. The cop abused and violated his public trust. Police work isn’t a pissing contest – like these comments threads.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Randy, come back to me after you have experienced some outrageous violation of your dignity and rights as a citizen leveled against you. Then tell me if there wasnt a moment you might have contemplated physical violence against the people or person responsible. And of course, add to the mix that it was the last straw after suffering years of the most vile, pointless attacks on your person in countless ways just because of the color of your skin. And that you had just come back from an engagement where you were maybe the guest of honor of a foreign country known for its violation of human rights…back to your country that supposedly protects them…and you are threatened by the police because you are tyring to get into your front door.
If you don’t feel like picking up a bat metaphorically speaking, or other wise, then you are not a man.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Ahmed, I did live in “another time” and my reactions and beliefs were entirely opposite of what you said. However, giving people their Constitutional rights doesn’t require me to give them free passes on bad behavior or special rights that discriminate against others.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Is Marc in the hospital?
July 24th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
And there is a wonderful description of just such an incident in one of Henry Miller’s memoirs. He was already an old man. Coming home one night to his house in Pacific Palisades. Some little shits were threatening him. Can’t remember the details. He describes the rage that boiled over in him and realized he could have killed one them and it left him shaken. His sense of violation and rage. And the ability to feel murderous left him shaken.
But its human. Its part of the survival instinct.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
Anna – you’re full of shit. I didn’t say that being a longhair made me an expert on racism – I said that in the extreme environment of Chicago in the late ’60s I had a window into police harrassment and smart vs. stupid ways of responding to it. You’re officially the one making a meal out of this – and even though you’re supersizing it, you’re missing a few french fries. I’ve followed and particpated a bit in long discussions about this elsewhere and I have to say, this is pretty lame shit by comparison. Kind of sad.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
If you don’t feel like picking up a bat metaphorically speaking, or other wise, then you are not a man.
So now it’s a metaphor, whereas before he would have been justified in literally so doing. Gandhi and MLK, Jr. must be spinning in their graves.
I will concede that if bombast were testosterone, you would have the biggest pair of balls possibly in the world. I have to exist in the real world.
Sure, there are plenty of times when I have contemplated flattening someone. Fortunately for me, restraint and good sense have reined in my baser instincts.
I have hope for you.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Forgot…just last week my neighbor was coming home late driving down the street a few blocks from where we live. Her window was open and she hears gun shots and what bullets hitting the car! Kids were in the bushes firing off BB guns at passers by. a foot higher and it would have hit her in the head. We live in a quiet little area just near a world class beach destination.
she came home and called the police who could have cared less. But by golly dont be a black man in the middle of the day trying to get into your own house.
maybe now you see the irony?
July 24th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
AC showing the typical rhetoric of the left, full of obscenities and wrong assumptions:
I suspect that if the prof had been white, you would be silent about this.
The idea that this was racist is utter bilge. When police are in a situation, they act to calm things down and prevent violence. When someone, a possible suspect, is going out of his way to follow them and harass them, the typical thing is to arrest them, take him down town to cool off, and then drop the charges.
Take the officer’s perspective… he has a report that someone has broken into a house and is inside – a potentially dangerous situation. When he investigates, he is confronted by a hostile, angry, arrogant (“do you KNOW who I AM?”) subject who initially refuses to provide ident. When they attempt to leave, this angry person follows them and harasses them. OF COURSE THEY ARRESTED HIM.
It is a sign of the sickness on the left that they instantly see this as a racist incident, and that Obama, who admittedly knew none of the facts of the case, pronounced, as President of the United States, that the police had acted “stupidly.”
It is clear that Obama is infected with the race sickness, and that he does not have the timbre to be a national leader.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Randy, the fact I am able to post should suggest I am probably not in jail for committing violence. And actually committing it makes me sick. I was one of those people in high school who when two boys would go through the obligatory ritual of beating the shit out of each other and the crowd would form would walk away in disgust. I have always had contempt for those who get off on watching violence or just stare stupified when an animal or human is in trouble. I have more than once been the one who had to call an ambulance because everyone else sooner to the scene than me just stood and stared.
Randy, it is normal to feel and express rage. Committing acts of violence for which you can be convicted of…not so much.
Now can we stop being so literal.
And thanks for the complement, by the way. I wish I had those pair on me back in the fall when one of the little fuckers sitting having a beer outside the little concession stand on the jetty went off about “n—–s”. I wanted to walk up to him and just lift him up by the neck and squeeze.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
By the way, Randy, dont confuse feeling passion with the intention of committing violence.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
John Moore, you are insane.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
“However, giving people their Constitutional rights doesn’t require me to give them free passes on bad behavior or special rights that discriminate against others.”
You’re talking about the policer officer in this case, right? Wow, Wooster check it out we’re in agreement
July 24th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
John Moore Says:
July 24th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
AC showing the typical rhetoric of the left, full of obscenities and wrong assumptions:
Jim R. what is so wonderful about you knee jerk right wing racists is that despite mountains and years of evidence to the contrary you will insist that even a bespeckled, internationally known academic is somehow guilty of breaking into his OWN house and his justified outrage of how the police treated him and some cunt who was walking by seeing him–A MIDDLE AGED BLACK MAN IN A FUCKING SUIT–struggling with a stuck door and calls 911 to report a break in.
You are a pathetic piece of shit and all like you. The man was at his OWN house and was descended upon. There are no disputes of the facts.
Grow one, you moron.
I suspect that if the prof had been white, you would be silent about this.
If you had bothered to read anything I wrote you would see that I have addressed this, you sick, racist moron.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Anna: I suspect that if the prof had been white, you would be silent about this.
Yeah, uh…a white man wouldn’t say that he was being picked on by the police because he’s black.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Woody why waste your time commenting at all on this story when there is a growing national movement which desperately needs your energy abnd support. How goes the birthers activism in your hood?
July 24th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Here’s a great quote from Jim McNulty (the Irish cop on The Wire) that I’m shamelessly ripping off from another blog:
“The beat cop is the one dictator in America. He can arrest a man on a humble or look the other way. And no one tells him how to spend his time; if he wants to drink under a bridge, he can do that.”
July 24th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Ahmed, just to show you how loony the right has become, even Charles Johnson of LGF has been regularly ridiculing the birthers (or ‘nirthers, as they’re also called):
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/34260_GOP_Politicians_Pandering_to_Nirthers
As long as the right continues to be hijacked by its lunatic fringe, its days in the wilderness will continue.
July 24th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Agreed – the birthers are way out there. On the other hand, a whole lot of Obama’s history has been suppressed – seen any of his law review articles? How about his grades in school? What did he publish while a law prof?
If you have links to this, I’d love to see them.
July 24th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
I want to congratulate reg, Ahmed, Kyle, Justin, Anna, and many of their friends for getting a raise today from $6.55 to $7.25 per hour.
An exception exists for California wages which incredibly requires pay at the $8.00 rate, which is above their level of competence but didn’t go up with the federal increase.
How many teenagers will be on the streets tomorrow after losing their jobs due to this minimum wage increase? Who cares? The liberals asked for it and the press certainly doesn’t want to discuss it.
July 24th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
“Is Marc in the hospital?”
No, he’s playing poker with the boys up at Bohemian Grove, but it’s supposed to be a secret.
July 24th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
“I want to congratulate reg, Ahmed, Kyle, Justin, Anna, and many of their friends for getting a raise today from $6.55 to $7.25 per hour.”
Why are you personally attacking and making false claims about me?
July 24th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
“seen any of his law review articles? How about his grades in school? What did he publish while a law prof?”
Eh, I don’t know, probably lots of “progressive” stuff, like Marc writes. If you’re implying there’s some sort of conspiracy involved, I highly doubt that. But then, I know people who have spent thousands of hours investigating fluoride in water and 911 cover-ups, so whatever gives you energy to get up in the morning…
July 24th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Hey Anna, I think Obama was talking to you when he said that this was “a teachable moment where all of us instead of pumping up the volume, spend a little more time listening to one another.”
July 24th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Watch trhe video; the guy is just masterful.
http://bit.ly/DiT7j
July 24th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
“How many teenagers will be on the streets tomorrow after losing their jobs due to this minimum wage increase?”
None, of course. American business is pretty damn efficient when it comes to employing the minimum labor necessary to get the job done.
Instead, the price of your Big Mac may go up.
July 24th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
“Agreed – the birthers are way out there. On the other hand, a whole lot of Obama’s history has been suppressed – seen any of his law review articles? How about his grades in school? What did he publish while a law prof?
If you have links to this, I’d love to see them”
Right because Obama who was the president of the Harvard Law Review had a far less distinguished personal and academic history than the man you liked as president George W Bush, an alchoholic for much of his time in school, who acheived little of any consequence and, if not for his name and his dad’s ability to continuosly bail him out of trouble would have gone on to live a rather mediocre life. This isn’t about what Obama has or has not shown. Its about his foreign sounding name, “otherness” and the fact that to many “bithers” he is an uppitty black man unaware of his place. JM its time for you to grow up
July 24th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
“Hey Anna, I think Obama was talking to you when he said that this was “a teachable moment where all of us instead of pumping up the volume, spend a little more time listening to one another.”
Bullshit. Obama is by his personality someone who strives for concensus and seeks some kind of way to bring diverse vocies together. That’s why he ended up in the White House where in some ways, he is probably more constrained by power than he was in his days as a communitty organiser. That doesnt mean that there’s no space for other voices whose outrage at injustive can be called cries of the heart. They can be heard in the sermons of the good Jeremiah Wright, the columsn of Chris Hedges (Marc how did the debate go) and dare I say the commentary of an Anna Churchill….
July 24th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
and dare I say the commentary of an Anna Churchill….
Utterly priceless.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
News flash Anna–This ain’t Selma.
Wait let me get this straight. Obama got to the White House because he was a consensus builder, but now he has a straightjacket on, and we’ll be better served by you having a shitfit over a cop who acted like a dick in this instance.
Now I get it. Carry on.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/v-print/story/72270.html
Who cares about people who are Black AND Latino and immigrate to the US Empire?
While Obama’s favorite secretary of State says,
“President Zelaya’s effort to reach the border is reckless. It does not contribute to the broader efforts to restore democratic and constitutional order in the Honduras crisis.”
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/07/24/honduras.political.turmoil/index.html
A blood- stained military coup according to Obama’s State Dept. is now a “crisis”. much like our vacationing-in August health care “crisis”.
vacation in august.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
This from the Village Voice
“President Obama said he wished he could “have calibrated those words differently” when he said the arresting officer in the Henry Louis Gates case acted “stupidly.” He now says the cop and Gates probably both overreacted and were “two good people in a circumstance that neither of them were able to resolve the incident in the way that it should have been resolved” blah blah blah. Obama said he had talked to the offended party, Sergeant James Crowley, whom he called an “outstanding officer,” and expressed interest in having a beer with him and Gates, which will be the lead skit in this weekend’s Saturday Night Live. The President added that he hoped the controversy would become a “teachable moment.” And it is: even the President can’t mouth off to a cop in this country, especially if he’s, well, you know. Rumors swirl that conservatives will push to nominate Sergeant Crowley on a Presidential ticket with Joe the Plumber in 2012.”
July 24th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
News flash DanO: I never mentioned Obama in any of this.
This is a wonderful lesson in how rumors and bullshit just gets splattered about and no one deals with the facts.
The incident was a perfect representation of the total lunacy and venality of the whole racist thing that culminates in a black man with as about as much status as one can have and as about as unthreatening in appearance and demeanor as you can get on the door step of his own home being accused of breaking into it.
Its the end of an era. What it does is highlight the stupidity. There is no way the police department can justify what was done; it points a finger at the demented woman who called in the 911 and the pervasive racism still alive and then the police who used the incident to humiliate a black man who had achieved a high status.
Its just perfect
The only difference between Boston and Selma is in Selma they would have found an excuse to shoot him.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
Brilliant VV commentary. Thanks for posting it, Ahmed.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Correction:
# Woody Says:
July 24th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Anna: I suspect that if the prof had been white, you would be silent about this.
I did not write that line. I pasted in a reply to that line which was end of a post by which ever right wing jerk wrote it and accidentally inserted my reply inbetween
and it came up at end of my reply.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
John Moore, by the way have you ever heard of common sense and good judgment? Defending the stupidity of a policeman to waste taxpayers money because he has poor judgment and defending the idea that Sarah Palin is a viable candidate for high political office only shows that you are a moron.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
From another comments section in a galaxy far, far away dealing with the factual issues:
“…The police informed Mr. Gates that two people were seen trying to jimmy the door. It was then up to Mr. Gates (the homeowner) to invite the police in if he wished. He obliviously did not invite them in. This is a 4th Amendment violation because the Policeman entered uninvited.
Mr. Gates has a Constitutional right to be an asshole if he wishes. The policeman asked Mr. Gates to step outside after he knew Gates was the home owner. This is a police ploy and we should refuse. For instance you can go naked inside your house but you can not go naked in your front yard. You can be arrested for that. So the police got him to come out on his porch so they could claim he was disruptive in public. It is the police presence that caused people to rubberneck. If they had not been there no one would have paid attention.
It is perfectly legal to refuse a police request to “come outside” if you are the home owner or a resident. The police can not enter your home without a warrant and they did. It is far more important to me that the rights granted to us as individuals under the Constitution are upheld then it is that someone who is acting like an ass to go to jail for a night. We should not “waive” these rights and when we uphold these individual rights there should be no presumption of guilt. If the police stop you for a traffic ticket and asks if you mind if they search your car without cause (smelling dope etc) you should always say no. We have lost the presumption of innocence because in large part we have failed to uphold our rights. These rights do not say that if we say no we must have something to hide, but that is what it has come to, and it is our own damn fault. “
July 24th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
And someone supposedly unearthed the nugget that it was a “concerned neighbor” who called the police because there had been a rash of daylight break ins.
Ya think the bitch might have known Gates was her neighbor if she was such a nosey cunt?
July 24th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
Ahmed:
Ahmed demonstrates the usual lefty trick: when pinned in a corner, change the subject to BusHitler.
Anna demonstrates that calling someone a moron is a liberal way to rebut an argument. And, of course, the concerned neighbor is a “bitch”
Anna, you’re a “peach”
Pathetic.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Anna – for what it’s worth, the woman wasn’t a neighbor of Gates. She worked nearby.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
“Anna – for what it’s worth, the woman wasn’t a neighbor of Gates.
This would be worth something to a rational person reg.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
Kyle: Why are you personally attacking and making false claims about me?
Sorry, Kyle. I shouldn’t have included you in that group of low-lifes.
- – -
Dan O. (re. Obama and Gates) Watch trhe video; the guy is just masterful.
How many “do-overs” does Obama get? He messed up his first attempt, messed up his second, and is given even a third try to get it right, and then he’s called “masterful.”
There are a lot of major league pitchers who would like to have “do-overs” after leaving a slider hanging over the plate that gets knocked out of the park. Obama qualifies for the sand-lot rather than the major leagues.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
Given Professor Gates age, I would suspect he has been a victim of actual racism. Given his age, and regardless of how he reacted, short of getting physical, the Police should have been wise enough to leave him after verifying his ID.
But given this Policeman’s young age and Policeman’s arrogance toward suspects regardless of color, and especially if uncooperative, I can see how this worked out badly for both.
Thanks to President Obama for cooling this down.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Kudos – JR.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
Don’t you have some tax loopholes to find for clients Woody?
July 24th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
Ouch !!!
July 24th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Hardy har har har har ROFLMAO
It was Obama that inflamed the whole issue with his “stupid” stupid comment.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Some people need to be reminded of what our police face. Just the facts, ma’am.
For example:
Henry Louis Gates, Jr. Police Report
“I’ll speak with your mama outside,” Harvard prof told Cambridge cops.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Prof. Skip Gates should be forced to attend an anger management class and required to watch this.
How Not to Get Your Ass Kicked by the Police
July 24th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
The facts are still the facts. The woman would never have called the police if she saw two white men on a porch in broad daylight. Not even criminals operate in such an obvious way…in daylight.
my aunt in uncle live in a wealthy LA area. Years ago over a period of years were robbed twice, in broad daylight. By professionals. They usually have a service type van, scope out the targets to get an idea of comings and goings then enter under the guise of being some kind of service person. Two guys barging the door on a front porch is highly unlikely. Since we are accusing Gates of not behaving rationally and thinking logically in the heat of the moment how about accusing the racist bitch of the same.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
Anna: Two guys barging the door on a front porch is highly unlikely.
Haven’t you ever seen the realistic Brinks (now Broadview Security) ads where there are bad guys busting down doors? It happens. and, as in real life, they’re always white!
July 24th, 2009 at 8:21 pm
“Don’t you have some tax loopholes to find for clients Woody?”
Nothing better than seeing conservative, nice guy Jim R undercutting wacko Woody
July 25th, 2009 at 12:08 am
as in real life, they’re always white!
my point, exactly.
July 25th, 2009 at 2:08 am
“Sorry, Kyle. I shouldn’t have included you in that group of low-lifes.”
Of course you realize that what you’re doing is making personal attacks, immediately after whining that this a “liberal tactic”. Which, as everyone continues to point out, is yet another of the myriad reasons why you are troll. You know it, we all know it–even John Moore knows it. You can’t even play by the arbitrary rules you set for others.
You won’t be taken seriously here until you stop being a troll.
July 25th, 2009 at 7:14 am
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17512830/Gates-Police-Report
and wonderful commentary from the CHICAGO police blog from where it was obtained:
http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com/2009/07/police-report.html
July 25th, 2009 at 8:49 am
Samuel, you can’t see the difference between a clean, tongue-in-check remark made in jest, like mine, versus sincerely felt hatred with vile, crass names that you guys spew? Probably not, but there is a difference.
July 25th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
So claiming that I spit on Vietnam Veterans and hate America or that I’m a pedophile are “clean, tongue-in-cheek” remarks ?
You’re a vile little weasel, Woody. Vile. Dishonest. Cowardly. Childish. Contemptable. And none too bright, despite your having achieved the towering intellectual heights of a Masters Degree in…Accounting.
(Some of the dumbest, most shallow people I know have Masters Degrees. Just saying…)
July 25th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
reg: “If the cop in question didn’t act “stupidly”, how come the charges were immediately dropped.”
Probably because the DA dropped the charges not willing to prosecute a somebody as opposed to a nobody of any race. Especially after Obama stuck his foot in the crap by admitting he didn’t know all the facts (and of course neither do we – most of the comments above are based on our own internal prejudices) and then saying that one party acted stupidly.
I honestly don’t know if the fault lies with Gates or the Officer, the stories conflict. I do know that there are race baiters just as there are racist cops. I also know, dear Ahmed, the names I was called when I a white boy was in Virginia in the early to mid 60′s signing up black folks to vote. N-Lover was the least of these names. But then, I’d never recommend someone taking a baseball bat to someone else except in a life or death situation to protect one’s self or one’s family.
July 25th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
reg: “I’m destined not to win any outrage contest with Anna. Guess I’m a wuss”
You could try opening up on her like you do on some of us folk on the right.
July 25th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
GMR – let’s assume Gates was ticked off and acted like an asshole. I had a friend who worked with him and he’s got a reputation for being a bit of an asshole. There’s still no equivalency here. The officer had the power to redress his abused feelings by handcuffing Gates and arresting him. I’m sorry, but best case that’s bullshit. A smart, professional officer would have read the situation for what it was – an old black guy upset at being hassled in his own home and acting out injudiciously. How difficult was that to figure out and not respond by actually becoming the asshole you’re accused of being. Obama was more discreet than me and called it “stupid.” Obvious. Of course it was stupid. I’m sure the chief of the Cambridge police called it “stupid” when he had to start devoting resources to cleaning up such a petty, pointless act by one of his officers. Then Obama committed the “gaffe” of answering a question honestly. That can be a mistake for a politician. It’s also important for a President to recognize that a casual observation on the part of a private citizen can take on a more charged meaning coming from him. He did and re-framed his criticism of the police officer’s judgment. Even the police officers’ union applauded his second statement and called a truce on it. On the other hand, if a moment of honesty about a controversial issue considered “stepping in it”, I guess I understand why you so loved a President who specialized in nonsensical double-talk. Obama handled himself well, both in the original presser and in the follow-up. Obama-bashing in this instance is a sign of nothing less than malice.
July 25th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
“DA dropped the charges not willing to prosecute a somebody as opposed to a nobody of any race.”
You don’t honestly believe that the disorderly conduct charges would have stuck or even been taken to court if Gates had been his driver rather than a Harvard guy. This “I’m going to take you down to the station” is a routine way for cops to punish folks who don’t show the deference they demand. I understand why they hate being yelled at, but Gates didn’t even come close to committing a crime. That it happened in his living room and front porch, in the course of trying to decompress from a long flight, makes the notion that an arrest could possibly be warranted ludicrous. At the point that Gates showed the cop his idea, the cop was trespassing and should have gotten his ass out of there. He could tell his buddies what a jerk Gates was. That’s what the rest of us do when subjected to what is nothing more than unpleasantries. Police are asking to be disrespected when they pull this shit. They are supposed to be experienced professionals, carrying arms and with the power to subdue and put handcuffs on folks. If they use that power because someone isn’t polite, they’re projecting a psychological profile of themselves and a face of “law enforcement” that’s, frankly, pretty scary. Do you think that black folks are going to be more or less likely to cooperate with the Cambridge police department when they are pursuing leads, following up on complaints or asking for information after this type of bullshit incident gets publicized ? Talk about “stepping in it.”
July 25th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
That should have been ID, not “idea”
July 26th, 2009 at 6:09 am
reg: “You don’t honestly believe that the disorderly conduct charges would have stuck or even been taken to court if Gates had been his driver rather than a Harvard guy.”
No, I don’t believe that the charges would have stuck, but I’m not privy to how its handled in Cambridge. I do know that there are parts of the country where that kind of thing happens all the time.
And, barring a bar fight or something similar, I can’t believe that any officer wouldn’t just walk away. I would, and have walked away from similar name calling and stupid behaviors and I suspect that most of the folk in this thread have also.
July 26th, 2009 at 9:19 am
“I can’t believe that any officer wouldn’t just walk away.”
But they don’t have to and often don’t. And that’s probably more common than we would like to believe. I mean, I’ve seen videos of an old white lady tasered because she mouthed off to a cop. Which is bad policing. The Miami Chief of Police made precisely this point when asked about the incident – that he tells his men, “just walk away” in these instances. But the fact that he’s got to push this “calm, cool, collected” approach down to his men is proof that there’s a problem. Throw raw nerves about racial profiling – which is a fact of life in police work, no matter what they tell us – into the equation and it becomes an even worse problem.
Frankly, at the point of the arrest it wasn’t about racial profiling, if it ever was – it had become a pissing contest between two guys’ egos. Gates’ should have known better, but he’s not paid by the city of Cambridge to make sure that police-community relations are handled professionally and with some sensitivity to citizens’ perceptions – or even their quirks and bad judgement. The cop is.
July 26th, 2009 at 11:31 am
No, I don’t believe that the charges would have stuck
Thereby contradicting yourself.
Reg, you’re wasting time on this intellectually dishonest slimeball.
July 26th, 2009 at 11:33 am
Probably not, but there is a difference.
Yes, the sincerely felt hatred people have for you is deserved.
July 26th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Passing through (the alimentary canal) geeze fella, watch who you are calling an intellectually dishonest slimeball. Please show where I contradicted myself. If you are referring to “Probably because the DA dropped the charges not willing to prosecute a somebody as opposed to a nobody of any race.” then you are an idiot, of which no one in here has any doubt anyway. prosecution is a whole lot different than the “charges sticking” which is what is typically meant by a conviction. But then, that is probably a little too nuanced for you. Of course, you aren’t an intellectually dishonest slimeball, you are an intellectually challenged slimeball. Asshole!
July 26th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
“Asshole!”
This from a man who supposedly quit commentating here because he couldnt take the use of profanity. Right. More like he left after making a complete and total fool of himself around the elections, falling all over that nitwit Palin all the while proclaiming that Barack Obama to be Farrakhan loving, America damning, jew hating, arab ass kissing, black seperatist, marxist and a snob to boot!
July 26th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Okay, GMR. We have to stop meeting like this. You’re destroying my credibility with these polite exchanges.
ASSHOLE !!!
(Now THAT’S the ticket…)
July 26th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Reg, back atcha…
Ahmed, you’ve used that before… copy and paste all of your favorites do you? You should turn in your street creds… you ain’t up to it feller.
July 26th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
Ahmed, you are one ridiculous human being you know that? Other than you like to paste your little tirades (awwww, go ahead little feller, do it again after this comment of mine – its cute) just what the hell does that little asshole being called an asshole have to do with anything. Oh, and it wasn’t that I couldn’t take the profanity, I chose not to. There is a difference little feller, but then, I wouldn’t expect someone as intellectually challenged as one who is reduced to cutting and pasting snarky comments to understand that. I bet you and AC have a lot of fun exchanging comments.
July 26th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
My street creds are being challenged by a Palin hanger on. Whatever. Anyways, perhaps Reg is right, your arrival here has seen you using a more genial and less hostile, bitterly partisan tone. Now whether you are willing to lay into those nut cases on the right wing, the xenophobic and deranged “birthers”, that my friend is an interesting question…
July 27th, 2009 at 4:27 am
ever the Pollyanna, reg says: “…If a cop doesn’t have the common sense to do that, he shouldn’t be on the force.”
These are the kind of surreal statements that you make, reg, that are mind bending. Along with “he or she will grow into the job.
Thats a pretty big IF considering in the history of the world cops rarely exhibit common sense. That is why the incident occurred. That is why that one cop started a now famous blog and when out of his way to mention that a cop on his beat is a dictator– and why you felt moved to post that comment.
Back in the 70′s I worked for a little company started by some Phd from UCLA who created the first computerized test result service for the MMPI and an IQ test. This is when a computer was a monitor in a little room with the brains rigged up all over the place and a few of us were hired to run the logic rules on the MMPI and then those answers were fed into some sort of primitive application. Any way, the MMPI was used by a lot of police departments and they would pay the company to score the tests.
I am sure most of you are familiar with the MMPI 500 True/False questionnaire originally created to test alcoholics. It was expected that viable police recurit candidates should show to be somewhat paranoid and hyper vigilant…that when they got to the famous question about “do you sometimes hear voices” that the answer would be yes. A good police candidate is not one who would have tested well to be a wooly academic teaching an ethics class, reg.
They are hired to be crazy, like weapons, like using them and both be the authority and kiss its ass.
July 27th, 2009 at 4:36 am
Since this is only a taste of an abstract it is telling that usually policeman are expected, traditionally, to be tested more for their pathological traits rather than not ( at least that is what I think this little blurb indicates):
Psychodynamics and Psychopathology
Assessment of nonpathological personality styles of policemen
Joseph T. Kunce, Ph.D. 1 *, Wayne P. Anderson 2
1Department of Educational and Counceling Psychology, University of Missouri-Columbia
2Department of Psychology, University of Missouri-Columbia
*Correspondence to Joseph T. Kunce, Department of Educational and Counseling Psychology, University of Missouri-Columbia, Missouri 65211
Abstract
A total of 24 normal personality characteristics of 67 policemen were investigated with The Personal Styles Inventory. The concurrent validity of the composite profile of this sample was significant (r = 0.45, p = 0.05) as evaluated by its correlation with a composite ideal policeman profile constructerd from staff judgments of the importance of each of the 24 characteristics for effective police work. Salient attributes were (1) showing restraint in terms of emotional expressiveness without being eiter overly enthusiastic or reserved; (2) being a disciplined team worker without being overly dependent on others; and (3) having a realistic and pragmatic thinking style without being disdainful of authority. These results contrast with findings of research studies that have used personality tests oriented more toward assessing psychopathology.
July 27th, 2009 at 4:45 am
reg, police, by their job description, have to be assholes–mostly–for obvious reasons. They are expected to thave to kill people and possibly get killed. Its a certain personality–especially in America and other NON WESTERN countries–especially where the para military ideal is worshipped and the constitution is maybe weak or non existent.
In UK and most European countries the average cop doesn’t go around with a gun.
And reg, you gave a long windy summary of what I had already stated about the issue; the post I pasted in about the actual laws around the issue ….yet you think your grasp is superior.
Your ego is the size of LA
July 27th, 2009 at 9:57 am
“he or she will grow into the job’
WHERE ?
Anna, I’m sorry if you think I’m repeating your stuff that, in fact, I’m tending to skip over as you amp up the hysterics.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:04 am
Ta Nehesi Coates gets us away from the specific nature of this incident and makes a very good point which perhaps both my man reg and my sometimes ally anna, when she isnt calling me deranged, can agree on
“When we think about the cops, it’s scary, on one level, to conclude that a cop can basically arrest you on a whim. It’s scarier still to think that this is what Americans want, that this country is as we’ve made it. And then finally it’s even scarier to understand that no president can change that. It’s not why he’s there. He is there to pass health-reform–not make us post-racist, or post-police power, or post-whatever. Only the people can do that. And they don’t seem particularly inclined. Here is what the election of Barack Obama says about race–white people, in general, are willing to hire a black guy for the ultimate job. That’s a big step. But it isn’t any more than what it says.”
July 27th, 2009 at 10:25 am
TNC has had great discussions of the myriad aspects of this event and broader issues.
July 27th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
No Ahmed, your creds are challenged by anyone with a lick of sense. Which you don’t seem to have.
Now, having said that, I’ve come in here the way I’ve always come in here. I’ll also note that you, like too many on the left (and damn too many on the right) pick up what ever is current….. “birthers?” Oh please! I looked into that see nothing there worth pursuing and will doubtless note you probably also pushed the bush dui meme. But that is about your speed, pick up what others say, no original thought when it comes to discussion with a conservative.
July 27th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
Now reg, that you have got the “asshole” out of your system, about that beer?
July 28th, 2009 at 12:01 am
“will doubtless note you probably also pushed the bush dui meme.”
I never once even mentioned this nor did I find those kind of attacks on Bush to be at all helpful. The case against W rested on some much firmer stuff whether it be launching a disastrous imperial war predicated on willful deceit, an illegal wiretaping program and a flagrant disregard of civil liberties, the flouting of international law and the normalisation of torture, guatanomo not to mention his domestic agenda. No need really to mention that he as an individual was rather slow, ineloquant, surrounded by creepy figures et cetera. No thats just extra
July 28th, 2009 at 4:31 am
“about that beer?”
Only if President Obama agrees to mediate…
I can’t forgive and forget that you were thrilled to put a crazy person a heartbeat away from the Presidency….and actually thought she was better than the irresponsible mediority who picked her. IMHO you’re still a danger to our Republic.
July 28th, 2009 at 5:35 am
Obama can mediate, because I can’t forget that you supported an empty suit who still can’t figure out how to get anything done, who has associates who are compulsive tax cheats while expecting everyone else to pony up and who picked a useless blowhard for VP.
I’ll even buy!
July 28th, 2009 at 5:47 am
You’re totally full of shit, as ever. Honestly, no offense, but I don’t socialize with people who have run as much bullshit past me over a period of years as you have. We live on different planets – and while I don’t question your patriotism or intentions, I really do believe that your views are not just delusional but dangerous. I’m not kidding. The whole Iraq misadventure – at a time when our country could have benefitted from a unifying politics, not divisionand incompetenc – proved that. I refuse not to harbor bitterness and anger toward people who defended that shit – and particularly those who defended it mindlessly, like you and Woody. I really don’t like people who spewy the kind of shit that you happen to spout routinely and I don’t like discussing things with folks who I see as blindered ideologues. I don’t associate with certain types of people on the left for the very same reason.
July 28th, 2009 at 11:27 am
zzzzzzzzzzz.
July 28th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Notice, GM, how reg essentially denies your essential humanity, as he does to everyone he dislikes. He is, at heart, a bitter misanthrope.
Normal human beings have not problem dealing civilly with those with whom they have strong political disagreements.
To many of the deluded on the left, like reg, have no respect at all for anyone who disagrees with them on certain issues, thus liberating themselves (in their minds) to insult and berate and obscenely insult. These are the people who, in the French revolution, sent so many to the guillotine. These are the folks who, under Stalin and Castro, became the local snitches who had their neighbors executed or sent to the gulag for their improper and dangerous ideas. These are the people who, under Pol Pot, agreed with the necessary measures to purify the population of bad ideas – by executing those with contrary ideas, or even those who appeared dangerous (for example, those who wear glasses).
Reg’s form of logic indicates a truly dangerous, fascist mentality. What he does here with words, he might do with deeds given the chance.
July 29th, 2009 at 5:05 am
John Moore – you’re completely crazy and none too bright if you actually believe your own nonsense.
I detest you – that’s a fact. You’ve proven yourself a fascist beyond the pale with your own calls to hang American journalists for treason. So your disingenuous bullshit about “normal people” is a total fucking joke.
I don’t drink beer with dishonest, unpleasant, none-too-bright types tossing off random partisan nonsense because they live in a constricted universe.
Sort of like Pol Pot…
Jesus, you’re a stupid fuck. What’s incredible is that you’re not embarrassed to post that crap. More evidence of your rancid stupidity. Go have a beer with someone who doesn’t have a sense of smell…
July 29th, 2009 at 7:11 am
Wow! I can see why reg went to great lengths to route us down here for the “humor alert” from the Palin thread.
Pretty funny stuff! (Just thinking…wouldn’t that keep reg from having a beer by himself?)
But, wait. There’s more!
Has reg tried to become a writer for the Letterman show? That has liberals peeing in their pants. Thanks for the “humor alert.”
Let me remind G.M. of an earlier response to him.
Truer words haven’t been spoken.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:20 am
“You’ve proven yourself a fascist beyond the pale with your own calls to hang American journalists for treason.”
Reg has mentioned this more than a few times and obviously, if its true, its pretty pathetic. So, since this is a dead thread, Moore, did you ever advocate “hanging” journalists?
July 29th, 2009 at 8:20 am
I’ll leave it to Moore to deny it, and I’m not going to run down the link – he’s probably scrubbed it. But years ago during one or another of the Iraq war revelations, yes, Moore wrote – seriously so far as I could tell – that journalists (I’m pretty sure it was in reference to the Times) should be hung for treason (maybe shot – I could be wrong on the means of execution.) I copied some of the insane shit on his blog here, which didn’t sit well with him since he was trying to impress Marc, et al as some kind of sage conservative.
If Moore denies it, it’s because he’s a liar. My word against his, but his accusations of “betraying America” against Walter Fucking Cronkite above are evidence of a pretty far gone bitter winger state of mind. Remember that Moore was also active in the “TruthBoat” liars movement to trash John Kerry’s war record. Jerome Corsi – who helped drive that one – is now part of the “birther” anti-Obama bandwagon of racist hysteria. This guy Moore is a sick individual…his projections about me, wiith my not wanting to have a beer with people I consider total fucking assholes incapable of honest dialogue turned into my being a genocidal maniac is evidence of just how tenuous his grasp on reality happens to be. I think he’s telling us more about what lurks in his mind with that bit of apparent projection than we would care to know.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:21 am
Sorrr – that was “Swiftboaters for Truth” or something like that…
July 29th, 2009 at 8:23 am
I would like to reiterate that I didn’t question GMR’s intentions or patriotism, and I’ll also reiterate that I appreciate his comments re: Sergio’s peculiar rant – although I don’t for a minute take Sergio seriously or find his nonsense other than irksome.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:32 am
Ahmed,
I’m not sure. I have advocated prosecuting journalists for releasing secret information (NSA phone call surveillance, for example). I believe those journalists are responsible for the loss of many American lives and willingly chose that course out of ideological reasons. They are not traitors (in the sense of treason) but they certainly are beneath contempt.
Note, unlike reg, I am not condemning them for their attitudes, but for overt actions involving law breaking and directly aiding our enemies (without collusion).
Beyond that, I don’t know what reg is referring to.
But since I, unlike reg, post with my full name, and have posted many thousands of blog articles and comments, who knows.
More specifically, I do not think journalists should be prosecuted for treason unless they meet the constitutional criteria, which involves “adhering to the enemy” (interpreted as directly working with them). AFAIK the only folks I have advocated treason prosecution for in this regard are Jane Fonda and John Kerry, both of whom did work with the enemy.
But it doesn’t matter, because reg can always find an excuse to call people names and dehumanize them. He is incapable of considering people who strongly disagree with him as being worthy of normal human courtesies.
In other words, reg’s politics override any humanity he might have in him – a sure sign of a dangerous extremists.
Notice, though, how reg manages to turn the discussion into attacks on people. No matter what I post, because he despises me, he feels free to use the public forum to viciously and profanely attack my person. He feels that his classification of me as “fascist beyond the pale” grants him the privilege of responding to honest discourse with vitriolic personal attacks – which is off-topic, disruptive, and discourteous.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:58 am
“I don’t know what reg is referring to.”
Of course you do. You’re a liar.
July 29th, 2009 at 9:02 am
And no, I don’t think anyone who could make the kind of unhinged leaps of nonsense – in essence accusing me of harboring genocidal impulses because I don’t want to have beer with bores who are so delusional that they consider Sarah Palin qualified to become President – is necessarily deserving of courtesy.
You’re a joke. And boring beyond belief…perhaps your worst sin.
July 29th, 2009 at 9:11 am
Incidentally, Moore – who attacks me for making personal attacks on political opponenst, currently has posts up comparing Sean Penn to a “feminine hygiene product” and one particularly egregious asserting that “there’s not a dimes worth of difference” between the murderers who cut off the head of an American hostage on video and the CBS reporters who released the Abu Grahib photos.
I’m sure he can explain that shit…because, you know, he’s such a reasonable sort who harbors no pathological “political” views.
July 29th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
No I fucking don’t.
Stick it.
July 29th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Links, reg, links.
And yes, I thought the Sean Penn comparison was rather fun. It hardly justifies your hijacking every thread I post in to throw insults at me.
Even were I to harbor “pathological political views”,” which I do not, your behavior is uncalled for and adds nothing to the topic at hand.
Even if you contribute all sorts of insightful, deep posts to this blog (as some claim), it doesn’t jusify that sort of behavior.
So, perhaps you can tell us what is the purpose of making posts merely to insult? How does that contribute to the discourse?
July 29th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Oh, I forgot
Why Sean Penn Is Like A Feminine Hygeine Product
July 29th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
The point John – and I provided links to your calls for journalists to be hung back before you scrubbed them, and really don’t care about the rest of your deranged shit – is to clarify just what kind of scumbags are posting here. Basically dropping your drawers for you, so that you can’t get away with the fiction that you’re a decent, honest, rational human being who happens to have relatively conservative views. You’re precisely the kind of wacko you accuse me of being. It’s useful for folks to know what they’re dealing with. This pathetic whining and attempts at projecting your pathologies back on me is your last refuge when cornered and it’s weak.
Also, you’re more than welcome to go to Beautiful Horizons and try to find some shit I wrote that’s as deranged and offensive as the claim that CBS News, for broadcasting Abu Graib evidence, is even remotely on the same moral plane as terrorists who cut people’s heads off. You know that rant is on your blog. Or you can scrub and deny it…
I’ll let that call be between you and whatever serves as your conscience.
July 29th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Reg, what do you mean “scrubbed them”? I think you are imagining things. I don’t scrub my blog.
Put up or shut up. If you don’t provide a link, it doesn’t exist.
You respond to everything I write by making sure, every time, that everyone reading it, hears, after every one of my posts, what a despicable creature I am.
That is inappropriate behavior and very tiresome. That you choose to do so, and to do so in such a rude and profane manner, tells a lot about you.
I post the links to my blog and I use my real name. Anyone is free to go find out what I really think and what I thought and wrote in the past. That’s more than you do.
I am just engaging in this particular dialog to understand, and let everyone else understand,why you feel compelled to behave in such a manner both here and on Celeste’s blog (where I think the language is inappropriate).
You have yet to show I am any more than a decent, honest rational human being with conservative views, which is not surprising.
July 29th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
John Moore is a liar – he advocated hanging journalists from CBS and/or the New York Times for reporting on war crimes and I’m dead certain he knows exactly what I’m referring to – but here’s his best case as a decent honest rational human being with coservative views…
“Moore, did you ever advocate ‘hanging’ journalists?”
“Ahmed,
I’m not sure.”
July 29th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
To that charge, absolutely not.
Reg, back up your bullshit with some links, or STFU.
If you can’t provide a link, then why should anyone believe you.
BUt… arguendo… let’s say you were right. Does that justify you throwing out ad hominem comments every time I post anything, on any topic?
If so, please explain.
If not, please explain why everyone shouldn’t consider you an immature, lying fascist asshole?
July 29th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
Based on your previous comments here regarding Cronkite-as-traitor, your fascistic frame of mind is well-exposed. That your accusations of fascism – and genocidal impulses, no less – against me are based on my not wanting to have a beer with somebody who pals around with Palin, your utter lameness is also pretty obvious.
I don’t owe you links when you know you scrubbed your site and you know exactly what deviant expressions I’m referring to. This goes back to 2004, when you were sliming John Kerry with the ravings of Mad John Corsi, now a leader of the birthers.
Lie down with dogs…
July 29th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
sorry, that’s “Mad Jerome Corsi”
July 29th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
Links, asshole. Links. Wayback machine. Something.
Why should ANYONE believe your rants?
And yes, I went after Kerry with tooth and tongs. And yes, Corsi is a weirdo – it wasn’t his stuff I was using. It was John O’Neil’s, who is anything but weird.
July 29th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
You touted Corsi…
I could link, but I don’t give a shit. You’re worthless and ridiculous.
July 29th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
Moore – the “logic” of your statement in response to my not wanting to have a beer with GMR – or any of you – speaks for itself. I didn’t need to cite the rest of what I know about you. It was a bridge too far – since Marc’s archives have been disappeared. (I could have found it there if I were intent on getting the exact quote, because I posted it here under your name – you remember all of this, of course.) You drown in your own undeniable black-and-white bullshit, based first on your characterization of Cronkite, and then even more bizarrely the craziness about me wanting to kill you because you wear glasses, or some such hysterical raving, on this thread.
I should have anticipated that you’re too much of a chickenshit to acknowledge the stuff you scrubbed on your blog and not bothered with it.
July 29th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
nibble
July 30th, 2009 at 3:55 am
reg, you (like Ahmed) go on and on about Palin. Obviously you are fixated on her as a love object and your poor denial is more proof, methinks you doth protest too much.
Then again, you want someone like Biden who NEVER got more than a few measly percentage points of popularity to be a heartbeat away from the presidency. Biden, the guy hoping around on one foot because the other is stuck in his mouth, Biden who continuously runs his mouth and comes off like the stupidest politician ever.
Then too, I remember the “hanging journalists” remarks very well because they were as funny as some of reg’s rants, which are truly off the wall.
John was commenting about some jerkoff reporter who had released some intelligence and said in an off handed joking mannner something like Journalist, Tree, Rope. Some assembly required. Certainly said in jest, but ole reg picks up on that like Ahmed picks up on something or other else. Hey, maybe they’re the same person…. anyone on this thread ever see them in the same room at the same time?
Then again, you want someone like Biden who NEVER got more than a few measly percentage points of popularity to be a heartbeat away from the presidency. Biden, the guy hoping around on one foot because the other is stuck in his mouth…
July 30th, 2009 at 5:57 am
“Obviously you are fixated on her as a love object and your poor denial is more proof, methinks you doth protest too much.”
Lame…
The truth is you treated John McCain as a pariah among conservatives UNTIL he picked Palin. I’m no fan of John McCain’s – although compared to Palin, he’s a giant – but that is weird, magical thinking.
“Certainly said in jest” – maybe, but when the same person accuses some mainstream journalist like Walter Cronkite of “betraying his country” because of disagreements over assessing the rationality of the Vietnam War (which IMHO was indefensible from the very start, if one has even a minimal grasp of the history of the war and US intervention) and of Cronkite’s judgement it was going to be a stalemate, a certain mindset is operative. The same mindset that joined forces with the likes of Jerome Corsi to slime John Kerry.
I like Joe Biden fine. Yes that’s true. I didn’t suddenly switch to Obama because he picked Joe Biden, but he’s a credible Veep if a sometimes clumsy pol. Palin is a wack job and both you and John McCain should be ashamed of suggesting she should possibly be President.
We’re never going to agree and when I went meanspirited and said I wouldn’t have a beer I wasn’t trying to question your humanity. I know in your personal life you are probably a good guy. But there are some political-social perspectives that drive me nuts and that I don’t feel like letting creep into my personal space or discussing while I’m trying to enjoy a good scotch. One is the tack by rightwingers that someone like me – a pretty conventioinal liberal at this late date – is somehow less in love with the country than they are because I’d like to see less bullying and bullshit and more stuff like socialize medical insurance (which undeniably works well in numerous countries – certainly compared to our crazy system) or because I mock childish, reductive notions like “Reagan won the Cold War” or “lowering taxes will balance the budget.” I’m really sorry, but I don’t think that leaving your brain at the door is the price of entry into responsible citizenship. I especially resent such insuations from folks who claimed that Iraq was a mortal threat to the US or that Bush knew what he was doing when he plotted “regime change”, who mock the notion of regional alliance between the dominant Shiites in Iraq and the Iranians becoming a more important ground-level reality in the Gulf than whatever “status of forces” agreements we haphazardly negotiate (see the news about Maliki restricting US troop movements in the last couple of days) or who calls Barack Obama – of all people – an empty suit while touting a certified ditz like Palin as some kind of real deal. (I guess by your deep psychological insights, I should assume that you have a thing for Barack, since you won’t let go of simply mocking him childishly. Let’s not tell Woody…)
The more time I spend stuck in these ridiculous, puerile pissing contests, the more I wish I could just have a beer with you clowns and then never see you again. If you want to play psychologist, I’m really disturbed that I spend so much time in this “somebody’s wrong on the internet” back-and-forth. Makes all of my protestations that sent John Moore into outer space when I went into my “no beer with crazy rightwingers” suspect. I guess it’s some idiotic thing about wanting to have the last word. But when I give a clownish character like Woody the satisfaction of biting at my ankles, I know that I have some character flaw I should probably work on…
July 30th, 2009 at 6:52 am
“I like Joe Biden fine. Yes that’s true. I didn’t suddenly switch to Obama because he picked Joe Biden, but he’s a credible Veep if a sometimes clumsy pol.”
And that is precisely what makes you a danger to the republic. Obama the empty suit picks another empty suit. You liked O before he picked B but you think B is just fine too and I guess is a compliment to O. Awesome reasoning. (NOT)
July 30th, 2009 at 7:04 am
Sorry, but a Palin guy is really struggling against the tied here. You look silly in the wake of the political choices you’ve made as a “responsible adult.” Thankfully, you guys aren’t likely to get the keys to the car any time soon. You fucked us royally with the Iraq bullshit and Phil Grammonomics and the deification of Dick “Reagan taught us deficits don’t matter” Cheney as cop on the block. But we’re adults. We’ll clean up. We don’t even expect you to thank us. But you might tamp down on the patently absurd declamations a bit. If you’re looking for folks talk politics with you over a beer, you’re really tightening the circle of likely takers.
July 30th, 2009 at 7:05 am
that’s “tide”, not “tied”
July 30th, 2009 at 8:24 am
I didn’t accuse Cronkite for his differing opinion. It was because he slanted his news to achieve the results his opinion supported, and he did so covertly while being “the most trusted man in America.’ He only admitted later that he had done so. That is both betraying his country and his profession.
Then there’s your typical McCarthyite smear… that I joined forces with “commiesthe likes of Corsi.” I joined forces with a lot of Vietnam Veterans who were revulsed by John Kerry, and Corsi was one who “contributed” to the cause (we didn’t know about his weirdness until late). I never “joined forces with him” – I did know him. But, hey, in your mind, that’s enough to condemn me forever.
Furthermore, we did not “slime” Kerry – we told the truth about Kerry where the mainstream media would not. And that truth was not pleasant. It was Kerry who slimed Kerry, by joining forces with our enemy to cause our defeat in the very same war where he claimed his own “heroism” made him uniquely qualified to be president, and the lapdog media ate that right up, ignoring little things like the very bad discrepancies in Kerry’s record.
Do you support those who “slimed” Bush’s military service?
July 30th, 2009 at 8:25 am
okay, so the strikeout tag didn’t work…
“joined forces with the likes of Corsi”
BTW, what the hell does the clause “with the likes of” really mean?
July 30th, 2009 at 9:05 am
Hey John…as of now I officially don’t give a shit.
July 30th, 2009 at 11:07 am
“Then too, I remember the “hanging journalists” remarks very well because they were as funny as some of reg’s rants, which are truly off the wall.”
Okay, this comment now speaks for itself. What exactly is funny about hanging journalist who you accuse of “treason” simply because they may be doing their jobs reporting on egregious violations of international law conducted under an administration you shilled for? Even if you’re right and they are wrong, causally evoking murdering them is pretty wacko, some crazy militia style shit of the domestic terrorist variety. And the dweeb John Moore is now on record saying he isnt sure if he made the comment. You guys are a piece of work. Reg stop responding to these neanderthals
July 31st, 2009 at 12:22 pm
liberals obviously not only can’t think, they have no sense of humor… and there is NOTHING funny about reg’s rants… they are filled with foul mouthed vituperation and slimeball tactics. As are your’s cometothink of it. So, go back and read what I said again.
I suspect that in deference to my bloodpressure I need another vacation from you folk.
August 1st, 2009 at 9:28 am
GM,
Reg is right when it comes to you with regard to Sarah Palin, which, with respect, makes your argument claiming Biden and Obama to be empty suits rather hollow.
Say what you will about them, but Obama is a graduate of Colombia and a graduate of Harvard Law, while Biden is a graduate of Syracuse University Law School. Obama has taught constitutional law.
Ms. Palin can’t string a coherent sentence together. There’s no comparison.
August 1st, 2009 at 4:54 pm
August 1st, 2009 at 8:13 pm
They are almost forced to pass (the center of the curve at these colleges is B+). And, of course, if they get in there on affirmative action or legacy admit, they may not even be all that bright.[my emphasis]
This is why I can’t take you seriously, JM. Bush was a legacy admit to Yale. Obama got in on his own to Columbia and was the first African-American to be editor of the Law Review.
As for Bush’s practical experience in the business world with his MBA, he started one business that failed and bought shares in the Texas Rangers that resulted in a 20 fold increase in less than ten years through a combination of corporate welfare (the new stadium) and crony capitalism (the sale to Tom Hicks, his dad’s buddy).
She does have more experience in government than the big O, has infinitely more practical experience in economics and the real world, and can speak quite eloquently – she just isn’t the polished pol enough to realize every time she opens her mouth, the press will be there to make sure we all know her mistakes. . . I think a lot on the left despise Palin because the isn’t one of the new upper class of the US, but rather one of us from fly-over country.
You really whine a lot. Palin couldn’t finish a full term as governor. She’s a quitter. her political career is likely over and if she wants to see why she need look no further than her bathroom mirror.
August 1st, 2009 at 9:24 pm
RP – just love how you have to personalize your response, rather than just addressing the issue.
Obama didn’t finish a full term as Senator either, before leaving for better pastures.
That’s exactly what Palin is doing.
Whether she will turn out to be someone of substance remains to be seen – exactly what I was thinking about Obama on Jan 20.
The answer is in on Obama – he’s way out of his league. With Palin, we don’t even know what her ambitions are, so it’s pretty hard to judge.
I find it pretty ironic that these days, the left is on the side of the elite establishment – i.e. is the reactionary side of things.
August 2nd, 2009 at 5:39 pm
Oh please. Nothing personal, but the fact is you do whine a lot. I did address the issue, principally the fact that Bush, whose presidency you extolled is an empty suit making you someone sitting in a class house with a stone in your hand.
That’s exactly what Palin is doing. . . . With Palin, we don’t even know what her ambitions are, so it’s pretty hard to judge.
So when someone leaves one position for a more significant position and someone else leaves a position without a clear indication as to what they are going to do, it’s the same thing in your world?
My, but you are obtuse.
August 2nd, 2009 at 6:30 pm
I find it pretty ironic that these days, the left is on the side of the elite establishment – i.e. is the reactionary side of things.
Hardly.
August 2nd, 2009 at 8:32 pm
And there you go again, RP, personalizing the dispute.
August 3rd, 2009 at 7:15 am
So whenever anyone criticizes your reasonig or lack of same, it’s personal to you?
keep whining.
August 3rd, 2009 at 8:37 am
No, Randy, it’s when, instead of criticizing the reasoning, you personalize the response (make it ad hominem).
Perhaps you don’t know the difference.
So, here is an example:
That is not criticizing the reasoning, now, is it?
But then, with you hard lefties, it always seems to be a dispute with the person whose ideas you don’t like, instead of the ideas themselves.
August 3rd, 2009 at 11:23 am
Your reasoning in my opinion is obtuse. Nothing ad hominem about that.
You said that Sarah Palin leaving her job with no definite prospects is the same as Barack Obama leaving his to become president.
Sorry, but I find your reasoning obtuse.
But then, with you hard lefties, it always seems to be a dispute with the person whose ideas you don’t like, instead of the ideas themselves.
I’m hardly a “hard leftie,” finding much to criticize among the left.
If you could effectively articulate your ideas, perhaps I could address them. Saying that leaving a job for no job is the same thing as leaving a job for a more significant job, frankly reeks of tu quoque more than anything else.
August 3rd, 2009 at 2:17 pm
The issue was attacks on Palin as a quitter. Palin served as governor, got done what she went in there for, and left with a replacement who had her same philosophy (to carry on the good work). Obama was elected to the Senate, spent the whole time campaigning for president rather than representing his constituency, and left without having accomplished anything at all. He was replaced by a buffoon who got their through the acts of a crook.
August 3rd, 2009 at 3:21 pm
“got done what she went in there for”
You mean the myriad corruption charges? Terrible and partisan leadership? Abandoning her state to become a celebrity? That can hardly be called “serving” as governor. Sarah Palin is a fraud and a corrupt politician.
Your arguments are absolutely unconvincing.
August 3rd, 2009 at 3:52 pm
All but one of which were shown to be without merit, and were simply being filed to harass her once she became a national figure? The one “with merit” was trivial. The idea that she is a corrupt politician can only be sustained by people whose ideas of corruption are bizarre.
August 3rd, 2009 at 5:22 pm
The issue was attacks on Palin as a quitter. Palin served as governor, got done what she went in there for, and left with a replacement who had her same philosophy (to carry on the good work).
She has never given a coherent explanation as to why she quit.
You establish an obtuse and false equivalence. You’re not a serious person. Sorry if you find that personal, but it’s hard to take you seriously when this is the best you can do. It would make sense if you were her PR person, but as far as I can tell you’re not.
The idea that she is a corrupt politician can only be sustained by people whose ideas of corruption are bizarre.
If she were an employee in most businesses and filed for per diem expenses while living in her own home – as she did for some 300 nights of expenses – she would probaby be fired. I’ve known a few who’ve been fired for far less. The idea that this is a “bizarre” idea of corruption is in and of itself, bizarre – and morally obtuse.
August 3rd, 2009 at 6:58 pm
“The one “with merit” was trivial.”
Nice. Good to see you keeping your partisan techniques honed: “Just a trivial lie. Just a trivial crime.” It’s okay if republicans do it; it’s not okay if liberals do it. Yawn.
Intellectual dishonesty is transparent. Ergo, another unconvincing argument. Maybe you should go back to your anecdotal pronouncements of what the flyover states believe. I’m a Midwesterner, but I’m sure an Arizonan can click on a few partisan links and make sweeping generalizations of what the flyover states think of Sarah “Fraud” Palin.
Or… not.