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Hi. Thanks for the good read….

Woody, that is absolutely false. I am mortified that you fail to understand this simple fact: AIDS is spread most commonly by unprotected sexual contact, irrespective of the sexual orientation of the participants. AIDS is most widespread in Africa, contracted almost exclusively via heterosexual contact between unprotected partners. You’re telling me that the majority of the millions of AIDS sufferers in Africa are gay and/or drug users? You know that’s a ridiculous statement. Come clean, Woody: be mature enough to admit you’re wrong.

Furthermore, you weren’t just “citing statistics”: you were using them to prove a point that was incorrect and offensive: claiming that sexual intercourse between two men is the primary (ultimate? your implication can be taken as such) cause of AIDS. It offends me, it offends homosexuals, and it offends anyone else who knows the truth. Responsbible sexual partners–heterosexual or homosexual–do NOT cause AIDS.

And no, you’re actually completely wrong on representations of others’ deities: some may be intended to offend, others to challenge, others to make a point about the vacuity of religion. You can take personal offense to this, but it would be misguided, since it’s a representation of a belief system–nothing inherent to the believer’s personhood. What you did in your comments, however, was blame a group of people for causing a disease simply through being who they are: homosexuals. That’s offensive. Think about it.

The larger issue I was raising however, was the risk of speaking in absolutes. It’s very easy to provide examples to refute your sweeping generalizations as I did. Again, don’t blame me for pointing out your sloppy rhetorical skills.

The intellectual quality of your refutation rises to the level of “I know you are, but what am I.” I stoppd that around the fourth or fifth grade. More’s the pity that you haven’t.

You cite information from a newspaper (The Washington Times) owned by a convicted tax cheat and cult leader, the Reverend Sung Yung Moon, simply because it apes your views.

Bear that in mind the next time you chastise me for reading the New York Times.

Sorry, but the “facts” are that you’re retort is very weak and off the point. If you discredit an entire entry because a “fact” isn’t interpreted to your liking, then you better toss out the entire New York Times which is guilty daily of such “factual errors.

The “rights” that I enumerated are not even rights in the technical sense, if you have enough sense to read the intent carefully. Those are more like consequences of being in violation of our laws. The “rights” term is used in a somewhat sarcastic tone. But, liberals don’t have a sense of humor, so how would you know?

Get real.

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Rich, I don’t know what kind of apology you want, but the HIV virus is contracted and spread primarily by homosexuals and drug users. The fact that the homosexual community used a kid to raise AIDS awareness may have been good PR, but it doesn’t change statistics.

Also, I don’t put citing statistics in the same class as the crude visual attack of a repesentation of God. Statistics are helpful if used rather than ignored. The other serves no other purpose but to intentionally offend without cause. If you think they’re the same, then you need some soul searching.

“1 out of 4 gay men in S.F. was infected with the HIV virus? Did you know that? Oh, but that’s just an alternative lifestyle…isn’t it?”

What, exactly, is an “alternative lifestyle”? You’re equating being gay with infecting others with HIV? That’s not a fact–that’s an offensive distortion of reality. The fact that my brother is gay and married to a man (the only man, incidentally, with whom he’s ever had sexual relations; how many heterosexual men can say that?), has absolutely NOTHING to do with the AIDS rate–certainly no more than the millions of heterosexual people in the world having unprotected sex and infecting others.

Oh, and as far as we “thin-skinned” folk taking “offense”, I’ll remind you of your penchant for invoking the “offense” cry when someone uses “piss” and “Christ” in the same sentence. I wish I could take you seriously, but when you contradict yourself like this I cannot.

So, Woody, I’m waiting for my apology.

On the issue of declassifying intelligence material, I would now refer you to Sunday’s stories in both the New York Times and the Washington Post reporting that the material which Libby selectively leaked to Bob Woodward, Judith Miller, and Matt Cooper seriously misrepresented the NIE from which it was drawn. So this could hardly be considered declassification in the public interest, and in fact as I said earlier it does not represent declassification in the normal, public spirited sense but was rather part of the Cheney-led campaign to get back at Joseph Wilson. That is why Judith Miller’s notes reflect that Libby told her about Valerie Plame during the same lunch.

I have been checking back here only for the purposes of closure in our conversation, but probably will not check back again, so perhaps we can continue this when the subject comes up again in one of Marc’s blogs.

It corrected your misinformation. Accordingly, it was relevant to the discussion.

You spew hate and use a broad brush. Don’t like my “nitpicking?” Stick to the facts. Is that so hard for you?

reg, you’re pathetic. Anyone who can’t discuss matters without foul, crude profanity is a loser. Your filthy language certainly does not “do a real service for the readers of this blog.” Calling me a “tasteless prick” might be a good indication of your culinary delights.

You made the comment using an absolute term. Don’t blame me for your piss-poor rhetorical skills.

Facts are still troublesome things, Woody

You directed this piece of verbal crap at me, among other things
“Why should you care? So, what if they are dying and infecting others as long as they can do their thing.”

And you followed this bit of ad hominem with a dig at Mark Y. as a “faggot who doesn’t know which sex his mother is”. Your idea of humor is pretty damned pathetic. If you think you’re being “intimidated” when you call people “faggots”, you’re obviously still in search of something resembling a clue. You’re a tasteless prick and a moron.

Randy, do you not think that I realize the additional information that you mention? Do you not know that your additional information is fairly useless and doesn’t address the discussion? I was highlighting a point with basic information, and you stretch essential human protections, civil actions, and international treaties into constitutional definitions. You’re such a nit-picker over matters that are not important to the debate. Can’t you do better? Oh yes, you left off that ilegal immigrants have the “right to emergency medical care compliments of our hospital owners and the taxpayers.

You’re wrong on the facts, yet again, Woody.

In New York, the State Attorney General has successfully, under threat of prosecution, forced businesses including several major regional supermarket chains to pay back wages to immigrants who were pad less than minimum wage regardless of their immigration status.

Illegal immigrants have the same right to legal protections against assault, robbery, murder, debt penury and a panoply of laws that also protect US citizens.

They also have certain rights under the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations to request contact with their embassy and/or consulate should they be arrested. Americans also have these rights in other countries that have ratified the Vienna Convention.

Facts remain troublesome things, Woody.

Woody, that is absolutely false. I am mortified that you fail to understand this simple fact: AIDS is spread most commonly by unprotected sexual contact, irrespective of the sexual orientation of the participants. AIDS is most widespread in Africa, contracted almost exclusively via heterosexual contact between unprotected partners. You’re telling me that the majority of the millions of AIDS sufferers in Africa are gay and/or drug users? You know that’s a ridiculous statement. Come clean, Woody: be mature enough to admit you’re wrong.

Furthermore, you weren’t just “citing statistics”: you were using them to prove a point that was incorrect and offensive: claiming that sexual intercourse between two men is the primary (ultimate? your implication can be taken as such) cause of AIDS. It offends me, it offends homosexuals, and it offends anyone else who knows the truth. Responsbible sexual partners–heterosexual or homosexual–do NOT cause AIDS.

And no, you’re actually completely wrong on representations of others’ deities: some may be intended to offend, others to challenge, others to make a point about the vacuity of religion. You can take personal offense to this, but it would be misguided, since it’s a representation of a belief system–nothing inherent to the believer’s personhood. What you did in your comments, however, was blame a group of people for causing a disease simply through being who they are: homosexuals. That’s offensive. Think about it.