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I'm going to firmly side with my USC colleague Jonathan Taplin in heartily endorsing the new Matt Damon BUY PROTONIX NO PRESCRIPTION, political thriller, Green Zone. Indeed, order PROTONIX online c.o.d, Buy PROTONIX online cod, I would call it required viewing. (Also a tip to A.O Scott who pretty much also gets Green Zone), online PROTONIX without a prescription. PROTONIX samples, Based loosely on Rajiv Chandrasekaran's excellent Inperial Life in the Emerald City: Inside Iraq's Green Zone, the fast-paced, PROTONIX street price, PROTONIX for sale, gripping flick more closely tracks the grim origins of the war in Iraq and the collective responsibilities of our politicians, military brass and, buying PROTONIX online over the counter, Doses PROTONIX work, yes, media elites in embroiling us in a tragic and senseless quagmire, PROTONIX long term. PROTONIX steet value, They're all there in fictionalized and sometimes composite if totally accurate form: The ideological stumble bums from GW Bush to Douglas Feith to the unspeakable Judith Miller, the crook and huckster Ahmed Chalabi, PROTONIX pictures, Buy PROTONIX without prescription, failed pro-Consul Jerry Bremer and the hordes of clueless chino-clad Young Republicans who staffed the Coalition Provisional Authority and scarfed down hamburgers and Domino's pizzas while playing at global politics.

It's a film that actually made me seethe, BUY PROTONIX NO PRESCRIPTION. And also made me remember that we are exactly one week away from starting our eighth year in Iraq -- with no real end in sight to us keepinh 50-60-75, where can i cheapest PROTONIX online, PROTONIX over the counter, 000 troops there for decades to come. Or is there anyone out there naive enough to believe that we will extract our forces from Iraq before we leave Japan, PROTONIX without prescription, Online buying PROTONIX hcl, South Korea and...Germany. Welcome to an eternal war, where can i order PROTONIX without prescription. PROTONIX from canada, Taplin and I, however, PROTONIX online cod, Kjøpe PROTONIX på nett, köpa PROTONIX online, seem to be in a minority of critics who are generally trashing the film, comparing it unfavorably to The Hurt Locker, PROTONIX natural. BUY PROTONIX NO PRESCRIPTION, I saw Locker and I liked it a lot. PROTONIX forum, It's an excellent film based on a morally weak if not feckless story and which consciously punts on what is arguably the single most tragic political event of the last 35 years. I don't go as far as Bob Scheer did it knocking Hurt Locker, where can i find PROTONIX online, PROTONIX from canadian pharmacy, but his central point is a valid one. If nothing else, order PROTONIX from United States pharmacy, PROTONIX no rx, by omission,  The Hurt Locker endorsed the overwhelming imperial hubris that underlies the war in Iraq by refusing to directly confront it, PROTONIX from mexico. PROTONIX photos, Bigelow's movie is about the emotional trauma inflicted on one solider.  Director Paul Greengrass' Green Zone, is about the collective psychosis that allows the most powerful country in the world  to delude and lie itself into wreaking havoc on  millions for no good reason, effects of PROTONIX.

The rap on Green Zone is that its characters are stereotypes and that, anyway, by now we all know the uncomfortable truths that undergird the war in Iraq, BUY PROTONIX NO PRESCRIPTION. PROTONIX canada, mexico, india, On the first point, I won't even raise a counter-argument. Suffice it to say that the actual human beings who got us into this war were themselves role-playing. How morally deep and complex, anyway, are zealous ideologues who are ready to send others to kill and die in defense of illusions that exist only in their pointed little heads.

The second point, raised by many critics, that this is all old hat is the real stomach-turner. BUY PROTONIX NO PRESCRIPTION, The last I looked, we still had 100,000 troops in Iraq, car bombs we're still going off, the government was still wobbling and the Iranians mullahs were all having a great laugh about it. All that, and COMPLETE silence on the war on the political front. The only change I'm aware of is that it's the Democrats, not the Republicans, who are now running The Pottery Barn and the enterprise remains morally bankrupt.

Worse, as Taplin points out, there is no apparent cost for all this. The architects of the greatest American foreign policy catastrophe are not only not in jail, they are out playing golf, making the rounds of the Sunday hot gas shows, raking in multi-million dollar book contracts, or, as in the case of Mister Campell Brown, running for elected office.

All old news I guess.

Go see Green Zone.

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47 Responses to “BUY PROTONIX NO PRESCRIPTION”

  1. PatrickKelley Says:

    Just for grins, I’d love to see somebody put out a PRO Iraq War film. I’d get a kick out of watching and counting all the riots, property destruction, assaults, and maybe even random murders the Left would conduct in protest of such a movie.

  2. Bob G Says:

    PK’s comment is a complete inversion of the truth. I suspect that the only left still remaining in the U.S. are all contributors to this comments section, and rioting is not what they do.

  3. qdpsteve Says:

    Just for grins, I’d love to see somebody put out a PRO Iraq War film.Just for grins, I’d love to see somebody put out a PRO Iraq War film.

    PatrickKelley: it’s been done. And even Ebert (who gave Green Zone four stars) liked it:

    Brothers At War

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  6. Marc Cooper Says:

    Patrick:

    I doubt if many people would go see it frankly. Hollywood runs on a profit, not political, motive. They know there is no audience to pay $12 to watch a movie rooting for an 8 year old war that has bankrupted America.

  7. PatrickKelley Says:

    Well, if somebody were to actually make a film about the Iraq War, one that was objective and unbiased, that looked at the totality and approached all the pros and cons of the different reasons (good and bad) that we went to war, displayed all the different elements of Iraq-the political, religious, the social, economic, and of course realistic portrayals of combat, the insurgencies, etc., it would not be well-served by a two or three hour movie. An HBO or Showtime mini-series would be a far more appropriate venue.

  8. reg Says:

    To Patrick Kelley – as someone who opposed the war from the outset on my belief that the “evidence” for war was being hyped and the notion that Saddam posed anything approximating a clear-and-present danger to our national security was absurd, who was critical of the decision to go in without troop levels that could provide some semblance of stability and safety once the Baathists were overthrown, who thought it was nuts just to disband the Iraqi armry, who distrusted the Iraqi exile class represented most prominently by the international fugitive Chalabi who has turned out to be an ally of Tehran more than his old friends at Heritage and AEI, and who believed that the the al Qaeda elements who were handed a golden opportunity by BushCo with the invasion could only be destroyed in the long run if they Sunni warlords turned against them and who believes that the final outcome over the next decade will be a strong Iraq-Iran Shiite alliance dominating the Gulf – which is “normal” given the demographics of the ares – I’d welcome your HBO miniseries if it were comprehensive and honest. I doubt that many “pro-war” folks who still rationalize that devastating, crackpot decision on the basis of anything remotely approximating the bar for a “just” or “necessary” war would be enjoying it and would have a lot of ‘splainin’ to do.

    Bring it on. Just make sure it’s historically accurate. Your notion of a “pro-war” film sounds suspiciously like the FOX News version, dramatized by some right-wing hack. I would actually love to see the series done by someone who initially had accepted the BushCo case. That would make the reality even more painful.

  9. reg Says:

    Also you can shove your “random murders” slur up your psycho ass. If you want to play that game, take my relatively polite response like a man.

    Just saying.

  10. reg Says:

    On Marc’s point, I saw Green Zone Friday and it’s an enjoyable entertainment of the Bourne-lite persuasion that is wrapped around some “fictionalized” – as in names changed to protect the producers from lawsuits – essential truths about this war. The story is compressed to fit the 120-minute format for an audience eating popcorn and sucking on giant Cokes, but the admittedly broad brush strokes of characters and background have been well documented by such Commie bastards as Tom Ricks, Chandreskarian, Michael Gordon, Larry Diamond, et. al.

    Matt Damon is dropped into this with an action-hero story that works very well. The movie is currently being slimed as “anti-American” by the usual suspects of the tear-down-America Right in media outlets funded primarily by such great Ameican patriots as an Australian mogul bent on maximizing his global fortune, a South Korean theocratic-fascist demagogue and an Saudi oil tycoon who is the biggest investor in NewsCorp after Murdoch himself. The notion that Green Zone is “anti-American” or “anti-military” is far-fetched to the point of absurdity. It’s anti-asshole and anti-dishonest political hacks who treat the military like their toy in service of ideology and hidden agendas.

    But – of the two movies, Hurt Locker and Green Zone – I think Hurt Locker had a more powerful story. Hurt Locker did what movies do well, which is look at individuals dealing with particular circumstances. They are on two different planes – and IMHO movies like Hurt Locker are more important over the long run because they deal with humanity in more depth. I thought Hurt Locker, while it was “apolitical” was a devastating critique of how we’ve compartmentalized the folks we expect to carry out the task of war for us. The isolation from “normal life” of our warrior class is a very scary and painful thing. Obviously Hurt Locker dramatized the issue, showed it in extremis and “cowboyized” the unit depicted in order to conform to the demands of even the margins of Hollywood, but it was a great movie in a way that Green Zone doesn’t attempt to be. My two cents on the two, which probably shouldn’t be compared at all they are so different in intent and concept.

  11. reg Says:

    I should probably add that I’m glad the “big picture” lies and hypocrisy that drove the decision to invade Iraq and the astounding hubris that assumed occupying the country and installing some exile in place of Saddam would be a “cakewalk” were portrayed in a classic action-adventure genre film with a star and director who have the track record of getting asses in seats for these movies. The “individual soldier drama” of Hurt Locker was far more “perfect” as it ultimately played out in the Bigelow-Cameron Academy Awards melodrama, with the woman and her independent documentary-style tale of a handful of soldiers beating out the Billionaire King of CGI. Perfect.

    Green Zone won’t be up for any academy awards, but I’m hoping it will draw lots of folks into movie theaters looking for a good ride and walking away reminded – in the midst of a the right-wing crazies attempting a revival with their Hate-Obama Fests – of just what a bunch of cranks and criminals populated the Bush administration and are still running wild. Also perfect.

  12. pablo Says:

    Patrick:

    Your desired portrayal of the war in film would necessarily then take into the account the feelings of ordinary Iraqis?

    The sadness of the comparisons being being made between Hurt Locker & Green Zone is that each portarys the catharsis of Americans in Iraq whch would be presumably eschewed in a film which would would glorify pax americana.
    What else would be the point except for a greatful populace abroad to validate the fetish at home?
    But wait. There are no documentaries showing the liberated placing roses in the barrels of the soldiers guns. For Hollywood to portray such gratitude would require too much explaining: a perhaps than the mini-series you envision, Partick. Much like the warm thank-yous from the people of Hiroshima, Mon Amour.

  13. reg Says:

    Actually, Pablo, Green Zone has a very interesting, fairly complicated Iraqi figure who is central to the story and who makes the utlimate critique of all of the American characters involved in the action/intrique conflict at the end of the film. The Iraqi throws a wrench into the works of Matt Damon’s efforts to resolve his own dilemma in exposing his opponent in the Provisional Coalition Authority and puts every aspect of the enterprise into fundamental question. A more “fraught” and interesting ending than I’d anticipated, given the “action hero” template that the film uses.

    I wouldn’t expect an American film-maker to make the definitive film from an Iraqi perspective for obvious reasons. Hopefully such a film will emerge within the near future from within Iraq or a member of the Iraqi diaspora.

  14. Hester Says:

    “Also you can shove your “random murders” slur up your psycho ass. If you want to play that game, take my relatively polite response like a man.”

    “Just saying.”

    I laughed so hard with this one. Big man on blog has spoken, Patrick!
    Good grief.

  15. Marc Cooper Says:

    Pablo,
    I’m going to double down on what Reg said here. Sorry, but you are just wrong. The Green Zone comes as close as any American film — other than a avowedly pro-Iraqi documentary– in putting the Iraqis into decisive and complex roles in this film. Indeed, the entire story resolved in the film through the highly personal and complex motivation of fully developed supporting actor playing the unwitting Iraqi interpreter to Damon. Even one of the more problematic Iraqi character in the film, Saddam’s top general, is depicted in a highly nuanced manner. To suggest that Green Zone’s intention is to glorify Pax Americana through the back door is patently absurd. The message of the movie – if anything delivered to ham fistedly, is that America has NO IDEA what is doing when it it intervenes as in Iraq and, that, precisely the will to impose a Pax Americana inevitably results in tragedy. Indeed, the entire purpose of the Iraqi interpreter character is to shift the emphasis of the story AWAY from Damon’s sense of personal betrayal to exposing the catastrophe that we have wrought on the Iraqi people. Please.

  16. pablo Says:

    Thanks Reg:

    I expect that progress can be measured even in baby steps. I have yet to see released, “We Blew It in Nagasaki” though I suspect that Patrick would intimate that the film is the work of Kurosawa.
    FTR I have not seen either film and will probably not in the future. These strike me as offensive much like the construction of the billion dollar embassy: a rapist renting a room in the house of its victim.

  17. Hester Says:

    “I doubt if many people would go see it frankly. Hollywood runs on a profit, not political, motive. They know there is no audience to pay $12 to watch a movie rooting for an 8 year old war that has bankrupted America.”

    The American public did not go to see any of the Iraq war themed movies in large numbers, and yet the studios still produced them. Green Zone is not opening very well at the box office, either.
    Perhaps, it is just too soon and many Americans feel it a bit unseemly to be watching a thriller about Iraq when our soldiers are still there and so many Iraqis are still suffering the consequences of the war.
    I think that in times of economic stress, most people want an escape and want to be entertained at the movies….they do not want to dwell on what went wrong.

  18. PatrickKelley Says:

    “Also you can shove your “random murders” slur up your psycho ass. If you want to play that game, take my relatively polite response like a man.”

    Not to be applied necessarily to any leftist individual, reader of this site or otherwise, but all I can say in response is, when I see a leftist protest, I want to stay as far the hell away as possible.

    And if there ever was a pro-Iraq War movie, I wouldn’t even dream of crossing the demonstration line of protesters to try to see it, assuming that would even be possible.

    “Bring it on. Just make sure it’s historically accurate. Your notion of a “pro-war” film sounds suspiciously like the FOX News version, dramatized by some right-wing hack. I would actually love to see the series done by someone who initially had accepted the BushCo case. That would make the reality even more painful.”

    If it makes you feel any better, I thought the war was dreadfully mismanaged. By the time it was finally turned around by the Surge and the Anbar Awakening, it should have already been settled.

    Where you make your mistake is assuming that we were “lied into war” or that “Bush lied and people died”. I don’t buy that for a minute. Besides, Saddam just simply needed to go. WMD was far from the only issue.

    Luckily, something like seventeen UN resolution violations and countless attacks on US jets after the fact, he is gone. My only regret is that he didn’t live long enough to stand trial for the totality of his crimes against the Iraqi people, which means the vast majority of his victims never got the satisfaction of facing him in a court of law, nor of having their own individual grievances heard in any kind of official capacity. That kind of sucked.

    But as for how the whole thing might play out on film, I see “BushCo” as a little too eager to give impetus to those bits of intelligence that tended to support their drive to rid the world of Saddam, at the expense of what very little evidence to the contrary that there was.

    Saddam dug his own grave. It’s my opinion that he wanted people to believe that he MIGHT have something, or he might not. The fact that he used chemical weapons against both the Iranians and the Kurds is a pretty good reason to have believed the WMD story, and to disregard as false intelligence any claims he did not have them. He gambled, and he paid the price. All he had to do was let the inspectors do their job, and he might have avoided all of this. He might still be alive today, making millions of dollars annually by the little scam he had going with UN officials, paying suicide bombers thousands of dollars to blow up Israeli pizza joints, encouraging his soldiers to play Duck Hunt with US jets over the No-Fly Zone, and pretty much probably by now being a more obnoxious prick than he ever was before in all kinds of ways we can only guess at. Ouday and Qussay of course would still be snatching young Iraqi schoolgirls and raping and killing them. Yeah, buddy, good times.

  19. pablo Says:

    Patrick;

    I agree that justice delayed is justice denied which is why I’m sure you’ll agree that the trials of Cheney and Bush should move with all aclarity now the Obama administration has shown that it too places a premium on power over morality.
    What say you? The Hague perhaps? Spain?

  20. pablo Says:

    Marc:

    I refer you to my response to Reg which must have crossed yours:

    I wrote:

    I expect that progress can be measured even in baby steps. I have yet to see released, “We Blew It in Nagasaki” though I suspect that Patrick would intimate that the film is the work of Kurosawa.
    FTR I have not seen either film and will probably not in the future. These strike me as offensive much like the construction of the billion dollar embassy: a rapist renting a room in the house of its victim.

  21. Randy Paul Says:

    Well, if somebody were to actually make a film about the Iraq War, one that was objective and unbiased,

    How about we start with Ronald Reagan sending Rumsfeld to make nice with Saddam?

  22. Julia Says:

    The most amazing film I’ve ever seen about Iraq is the Kurdish Iranian film director Bahman Ghobadi’s film “Marooned in Iraq.” “Marooned in Iraq” is about the Kurds during the Iran-Iraq War and stars a famous Iranian Kurdish musician and his two musician sons. The elderly Kurdish musician, who lives in Iran, hears that his ex-wife, who has returned to Iraq, needs him, so the musician and his two sons set out walking up and down mountains during wintertime through a war zone to get to the ex-wife. It is a haunting, beautiful film celebration Kurdish culture and strength. Also, it has Kurdish music–wonderful

  23. reg Says:

    Patrick – “dreadfully mismanaged” doesn’t even begin to address what was wrong with the Iraq war from Day One.

    Invoking the UN etc. is bullshit and you know it – you’re still drunk on Kool-Aid buddy. “If it makes you feel any better” I hold a whole bunch of Democrats fully complicit in this crap.

    Anyone who defends the decision to launch Iraq war has such a low bar for launching full-scale use of our military, it’s fucking frightening. Pretty much will fall for anything that can be dressed up in “patriotic” garb. Feith, et. al. knowingly ginned up the “evidence” and the nonsensical conflation of “WMD” that Saddam might have had his hands on as a national security threat to the US is beyond absurd. Childish, really. Far more than “a little too eager” – more like “how can we take advantage of the post-9/11 hysteria ?” I have no idea whether Bush “lied” – just that he was an irresponsible, easily-manipulated, reckless little bastard in way over his head and surrounded by some very dangerous ideologues who had zero scruples.

    And compounded with the shift of resources away from the war in Afghanistan that actually was an attempt to target the forces that struck us on 9/11, this was a betrayal of our military and of the American people. And, for the sake of reality if not Pablo, please acknowledge that the war unleashed on Iraq a catastrophe that will rival Saddam’s civil wars against rival sects and the Iran-Iraq war in pain inflicted on Iraq’s people. Moreover, it’s a chapter that is still being written – I’m moderately hopeful that the trajectory is toward some kind of modest stability after the last round of elections, but continue to be appalled at how much death, destruction and displacement was triggered by the invasion.

    “Dreadfully mismanaged” – uh, yeah – but also willfully “mismanaged” in the service of various factional interests in the Bush administration. I just don’t believe pro-war types who yammer about Saddam, since many of the same administration hacks who launched the war were eager to assist him in war crimes back in the ’80s and were not willing to give the Shiites and Kurds air cover when we had the resources at the Iraq border in the 90s. The curious relationship of these characters to Saddam over several decades is just too fucking sick of a scenario to allow for anything even remotely associated with humanitarian or “noble” intentions to stand in the lame-ass, absurdly hyped “case for war.” As you might guess, I’m still outraged by the dishonesty and hubris of the entire enterprise.

  24. reg Says:

    Also, Marc – good points about the Iraqi general’s character. A very compelling and credible character in context.

    I also want to note that the film does a good job – and the general’s character underscores this – of showing how once we launched the invasion and ousted Saddam the notion that there were some “good” choices that an outside power could simply impose on a country as complicated and politically volatile as Iraq is just loony toons, even under the pretense that the invading force could possibly “know what they were doing.” What played out was a civil war that killed, minimially, a hundred thousand and displaced millions. The face of the country was changed radically. An utterly criminal dictator is gone, but at a very terrible price. There is no moral calculus that says guys like Patrick Kelley – dressed up with titles like “assistant to somebody” and briefing memos – are the rightful arbiters of that country’s fate. The hubris is astonishing. The fact that “we” sent in interns from the Heritage Foundation lists to manage the country is so surreal, you really have to assume that contemporary “conservatism” is, as I’ve noted elsewhere in reference to more current absurdities, little more than an “I’m with Stupid!” tee-shirt.

  25. One Source Talent Says:

    This film looks pretty good. I know they had real vets in the film as well. They did make it clear it is nothing like the Bourne films too. Matt’s a great actor, guess it will be hard to judge until we see it, and even tougher to compare to The Hurt Locker which was fantastic.

  26. pablo Says:

    So I gather that both Reg and Marc liked Green Zone because it validates their assumptions about events leading the USA to invade contrary to international law and then following a fool’s errand in attempted nation building:

    Marc:
    “the fast-paced, gripping flick more closely tracks the grim origins of the war in Iraq and the collective responsibilities of our politicians, military brass and, yes, media elites in embroiling us in a tragic and senseless quagmire.”

    Reg: ”
    “I also want to note that the film does a good job – and the general’s character underscores this – of showing how once we launched the invasion and ousted Saddam the notion that there were some “good” choices that an outside power could simply impose on a country as complicated and politically volatile as Iraq is just loony toons, ..”

    Neither needed see Green Zone to come to the above understanding.

    Reg then ends with this comment about the war: “I’m still outraged by the dishonesty and hubris of the entire enterprise.”

    Perhaps the validation of these views in the film Green Zone will be the closest thing to satisfaction that either will get. Certainly the government is not pulling out any time soon.
    What I find puzzling is that neither seems to express this outrage by holding the party in power accountable (a similar response I noted in the debate over healthcare) and seem contented with this vicarious depiction in film.

    And what has been depicted is the conspiracy to commit and not the crime itself. The missing are 1/2 million innocent dead; the unspoken tableau where the protagonist can come to a grim realization about the folly of american policy, and so that we can have validation along with our popcorn.

  27. reg Says:

    “Neither needed see Green Zone to come to the above understanding.”

    No shit ?

    At least my comments on the film were based on the “vicarious” experience of actually having seen it.

  28. pablo Says:

    That indeed is your problem, Reg.

  29. Marc Cooper Says:

    Pablo:

    You make a fool of yourself. You should have had the good sense to lie and say you had seen the film! There is nothing you say that is contradicted by the Green Zone story line,

    But, I know your type, pal. Been around it my whole life. You would actually be DISAPPOINTED if there was every any progress anywhere, if any reform actually made anything better than it was, and if any capitalist war monger movie had a clear anti-war message. God forbid. It would strip of you of your martyrdom and your ability to bask in absolute purist marginality.

    Read your comments out loud to 10 people and see if one doesnt laugh their ass off at you.

    I know War & Peace sucks though I’ve never read it because it was written by a noble.

  30. PatrickKelley Says:

    Pablo-

    “I agree that justice delayed is justice denied which is why I’m sure you’ll agree that the trials of Cheney and Bush should move with all aclarity now the Obama administration has shown that it too places a premium on power over morality.
    What say you? The Hague perhaps? Spain?”

    Maybe after we try Hugo Chavez and Castro, Mugabe, etc., for all their various crimes against humanity, along with maybe a few hundred of the higher ranking members of Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, and maybe a few thousand Iranian Shi’ite and Sunni clerics, the more radicalized ones, maybe somewhere down the line we might find time to consider the possibility of trying Bush and Cheney. To put Bush at the top of such a list seems like a ludicrous proposition to me. That would be about like devoting the resources of the Department of Justice to the monumental task of apprehending and prosecuting litterbugs while rapists, murderers, and drug smugglers are left alone.

    Is it actually your position that no one should make a film about the Iraq War, with either a pro or a con viewpoint? Or perhaps the subject should never be broached at all on film, even without a viewpoint? Art is more than just displays of talent and pretty pictures. The purpose of art is to make a person think, and to inspire, sometimes to repulse. Mindless entertainment is all well and good, and I’m all for it. Frankly, at times I prefer it. But some of the greatest art, literature, and film etc., does present a point of view, one which I don’t necessarily always agree with, nor do I have to. It might be a thin line at times, but art is just the difference between looking behind the shroud (even if with faulty vision) and fabricating propaganda out of whole cloth. The latter when done effectively does admittedly take talent, but with equal parts hubris. You should learn that when it comes to propaganda, the end product is in reality far less than the sum of its parts.

  31. pablo Says:

    No Marc (insert Jeopardy horn here) You are making me laugh.
    My first reply was to Patrick who would not see the film precisely because it is not a pro-war film.
    Partick was in turn derided for his view by Reg who enjoyed the film because it vaildated his own assumptions about the conflict (yours too).
    As you’ll recall the world was in firm opposition to the war prior to itws commencement and in London the largest crowd ever was amassed PRIOR to hostilities.
    Now we are treated to Green Zone eight years into the conflict with almost a million dead so that a film charecter can remind us of the hubris of war.

    The leads me to two conclusions: 1) There is no need for me to go and see Green Zone and 2) the film serves to assuage the impotence of a citizenry unable to confront the government to take action by ending this horror simply because it prefers the party in power over the immorality of war.

    My personal views on the free market are not at severe odds with yours and at any rate would not be at issue.
    I don’t believe we have ever met.
    You have stated your views as to why Green Zone is a must see and invite comments.

    Here is what I wrote which seemed to have struck a raw nerve:

    “Perhaps the validation of these views in the film Green Zone will be the closest thing to satisfaction that either will get. Certainly the government is not pulling out any time soon.
    What I find puzzling is that neither seems to express this outrage by holding the party in power accountable (a similar response I noted in the debate over healthcare) and seem contented with this vicarious depiction in film”

    (I’m looking for a Leninist interpretation of that line, Marc, and can’t seem to find one)

    Was is it Woody Allen who commented that War & Peace is about Russia? I must confess I haven’t read the book. Was it the author?
    Hmmm. I think probably more the length.
    Let me rethink the possibly of a political motive. I have El Monstro on my nightstand now and that must be at least as long as the Russian tome. I have recently re-read The Gulag Archipeligo. So to your point (with this evidence) I must demur.

  32. pablo Says:

    Or perhaps the subject should never be broached at all on film, even without a viewpoint? Art is more than just displays of talent and pretty pictures. The purpose of art is to make a person think, and to inspire, sometimes to repulse. -PATRICK KELLY
    ——————————————

    Our ghost concedes that Green Zone is not a work of art.

    To your comments about the efficacy of trying Bush in light of Mugabe: Prisons are peopled by criminals including murderers so it must be okay to go and kill someone.

  33. pablo Says:

    Sorry… I meant OUR HOST, not our ghost.

    Apologies to Marc… and nothing freudian there! It’s was just a typo.

  34. Anna Churchill Says:

    Terence Malick’s The Thin Red Line.

    He nails it.

  35. Michael Turmon Says:

    I enjoyed GZ — I have a weakness for that sort of thing. I found it reminiscent of the political thrillers of the 70s, another time when mistrust for govt was on people’s minds. Alas, the comparison is off because GZ is not “conspiracy theory”, it’s a simplified version of what did happen.

    As reg says, HL is a different film, so no sense comparing. I found it more powerful and unsettling than GZ by far. Most know that the imperial wars we have entered, we have done so for trumped-up reasons. To me, HL was more about the nihilism that is present in young men (and the young at heart) and how it affects our whole society.

  36. Anna Churchill Says:

    Re the nihilism element, etc…doc I saw few years back while still in UK was about studies done during WW2 maybe included WW1 indicating only something like 25% shot to kill. Meaning instinct NOT to kill was stronger. Talked about war unleashing some people’s inner psychopath etc. Made a lot of very interesting points. The upshot being by the time Viet Nam arrived soldiers were desensitized and everything was done to unleash that inner psycho. A sort of juggernaut of psychological conditioning from every angle. Sorry can’t be more specific as only remember the overall points.

    The whole culture since before Viet Nam has been about bravado, demonizing anyone or idea that doesn’t suit the commercial agenda and glorifying killing.

  37. reg Says:

    “Reg who enjoyed the film because it vaildated his own assumptions about the conflict (yours too).”

    Pablo – I haven’t read all of your final responses but I have read some bits which were…uh…stupid. Like “That indeed is your problem” – WTF ? I literally don’t know what that’s supposed to mean, other than that you value talking totally out of one’s ass. As to the quote above, I actually enjoyed the film because it was a very well-made popular genre film that validated not any of my assumptions about the conflict but because it re-iterated some known – and extremely problematic – underlying and well-known, well-documented facts about the conflict. That the Pentagon intelligence agencies – working closely with the VP’s office – ginned up “evidence” of WMDs because it was necessary to make their case for an invasion (a necessity even Karl Rove has admitted in his bio) that was disputed within the CIA and turned out to be even more bogus than even I had anticipated- as someone who knew the “US national security/9/11/al Qaeda” case against Saddam was total bullshit – isn’t an assumption, it’s documented history. I had a few (essentially correct) assumptions going in that turned out to be not nearly dire enough, as I learned more and the reality unfolded over the next couple of years. But FWIW, I also noted that I “liked” Hurt Locker more, which didn’t validate any of my “assumptions” but showed me an aspect of the war that was more visceral and not based on my meta-views of the politics. Nut I did like the way Green Zone used well-documented reporting on the context of the war as a key element in building its obviously fictionalized story and characters.

    All of that said, I’m not sure what your point is…except something about the Obama administration being as bad as Bush in it’s designs on Iraq. That’s completely nutty IMHO, if that clarification helps.

  38. reg Says:

    Sorry for the ridiculous run-on sentences and odd typos – I can’t edit worth a damn in these little boxes and keep adding clauses. Terrible…

  39. Third Chamer Says:

    Though marred by a weakish ending, I can’t imagine a non-fiction film doing a much better job on Tony Blair than “The Ghost Writer”, which is at least one half of a damned good thriller.

    It’s not surprising the critics are not gaga over this movie, if it is a good one. They write for the same publications that made Iraq possible. It’s sad to note there have been quite a lot of films done on Iraq (docs and non-docs) but SOMEHOW they just didn’t get much distributed.
    We really need, of course, a hard hitting documentary on the most intellectually dishonest, morally bankrupt,
    racist and hypocritical cheer leader for the invasion, and the
    week kneed fanboys on the left who help maintain his
    credibility.

    “The Trail Of Christopher Hitchens”, anyone?

  40. reg Says:

    A conservative takes on Ross Douthat’s dumbass critique of Green Zone in today’s NYTs.

    http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2010/03/14/we-wouldnt-want-to-be-simplistic-and-naive-now-would-we/

  41. Michael Crosby Says:

    RE: War & Peace. Read it. It has a lot to say about war and imperialism, and how to resist it.

  42. Anna Churchill Says:

    Resistance=consciousness

  43. Joe Donnelly Writes » Feelings About The Green Zone and Handling the Truth Says:

    [...] For my first post I was going to write about the experience of seeing The Green Zone. Well, I guess I am writing about it, but I also came across Marc Cooper’s excellent post, which pretty much says everything I was going to say about it.  Here it is: http://marccooper.com/green-zone-must-see/ [...]

  44. Joe Donnelly Says:

    Reg, you’re awesome. Where can I read more?

  45. Randy Paul Says:

    Joe, try here.

  46. Joe Donnelly Says:

    Got it. Thanks, Randy.

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