Like most of you, I was rocked by the events in Haiti. I was also morbidly fascinated by the round-the-clock cable news coverage that included absolutely no news. At some point, I don't remember when exactly, in the anchor/reporter banter on CNN, there was actually a line uttered that went something like this: "So, Bob, what exactly do we have to know about Haiti so we can get a picture of what this quake means?"
Right. Why should we
already know anything at all about a country a few hours off our coast that is the poorest in the hemisphere, that struggled under one of the most retrograde dictatorships for decades and that we actually invaded and briefly occupied as recently as 1995?!?!?!
After all, neither Britney Spears, the Octomom, Jay Leno or Conan have been there recently. Most of the folks who live there are dark rather than light-skinned negroes. So how could we possibly know anything about that place if it really doesn't matter or, more accurately, really doesn't exist in the scope of the Great Mainstream Media? If you want to hear what I mean try this experiment. Sit through any of the half hour network news shows on the tube. Then, on the Web or on cable, find the BBC newscast of the day. The latter is like Tolstoy compared to a 5th grade reading primer.
Any news at all coming out of the island during the first 24 hours was on Twitter and facebook. And even CNN had to stoop to using Skype to pactch in some regular folks on the island who still had a Web connection.
Choire Sica at
The Awl has something to say about all this that's worth reading.
There's also a great comment under his piece by reporter Ken Layne who vigorously sets the record straight. We don't have international news because the monster NOT because the Internet forced all those magnificent newspapers out of business. Hardly! We don't have it because, at least for most of my adult life, the U.S. media has generally ignored the Third World...unless there is some sort of conflict that supposedly affected U.S. national security -- or......... a horrible natural disaster exploded! There will be more U.S. reporters in Haiti this coming week than the cumulative total of the last 50 years.
Here's Layne's acerbic but correct comment:
It’s a funny (not really) thing about the newspaper industry people always bitching about the internet took their moneys, etc., because news organizations deliberately began shutting down their news gathering operations about twenty-five years ago.
Maybe there was no real need for the LA Times to have, say, two or three full-time correspondents in Toronto. (And in the late ’80s, they did.) Maybe there were a few African nations with not very much breaking news that you could serve okay with, say, one bureau in a regional capital city with good transportation and communications and a solid chief and a couple of good translators/fixers with heavy knowledge of the surrounding countries/cities.
I wanted to be Graham Greene filing three pieces a year from some crumbling colonial city or another and smoking opium and fucking hookers like most of you hanging out at The Awl and crying to Morrissey songs on YouTube today — ha ha, how far we’ve come, etc. — but always figured that required a fancy university degree and lots of contacts within the diplomatic corps and press club.
But by the early ’90s, I noticed that a bunch of college dropouts from California were covering the Balkan Wars, as stringers, because the foreign bureaus were shutting down and the full-time w/ benefits correspondents were not being replaced when they retired. I ended up stringing for wire services, too, based on nothing more than a scratchy phone call. “Oh yeah so-and-so [another 25-year-old stringer and dropout] told me to call, I’m in ____, okay great I’ll start filing stuff.” It turns out *nobody* got to be Graham Greene ever again, and now you can’t even find work as a $25-per-brief-we’ll-pay-you-in-two-years-maybe stringer in some dangerous hellhole.
Remember when that Canadian radio program got kind of famous for just calling a payphone in some hot news spot because they had no budget or bureaus? Now that’s the fucking New York Times, and the payphone is fucking Twitter.
Well said.
I read this a half hour after I read
this incredibly self-pitying piece from former
Chicago Tribune reporter
Don Terry. After getting axed by the Trib, this chap has spent the last year moping around his house, crying in his beer and weepily watching Lou Grant re-runs. And you wonder why newspapers can't keep pace with reality. I wouldn't let this guy within 500 feet of my Journalism School students. They are no Pollyannas, but they don't have time to watch 25 year old re-runs and pine for the clatter of typewriters. They are too busy perpetrating acts of journalism.
Memo to Don Terry: Shut off your TV, wipe your nose, get off the couch, and get your ass down to Haiti.
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Like most of you, I was rocked by the events in Haiti. I was also morbidly fascinated by the round-the-clock cable news coverage that included absolutely no news. At some point, I don't remember when exactly, in the anchor/reporter banter on CNN, there was actually a line uttered that went something like this: "So, Bob, what exactly do we have to know about Haiti so we can get a picture of what this quake means?"
Right. Why should we already know anything at all about a country a few hours off our coast that is the poorest in the hemisphere, that struggled under one of the most retrograde dictatorships for decades and that we actually invaded and briefly occupied as recently as 1995?!?!?!
After all, neither Britney Spears, the Octomom, Jay Leno or Conan have been there recently. Most of the folks who live there are dark rather than light-skinned negroes. So how could we possibly know anything about that place if it really doesn't matter or, more accurately, really doesn't exist in the scope of the Great Mainstream Media? If you want to hear what I mean try this experiment. Sit through any of the half hour network news shows on the tube. Then, on the Web or on cable, find the BBC newscast of the day. The latter is like Tolstoy compared to a 5th grade reading primer.
Any news at all coming out of the island during the first 24 hours was on Twitter and facebook. And even CNN had to stoop to using Skype to pactch in some regular folks on the island who still had a Web connection. Choire Sica at The Awl has something to say about all this that's worth reading.
There's also a great comment under his piece by reporter Ken Layne who vigorously sets the record straight. We don't have international news because the monster NOT because the Internet forced all those magnificent newspapers out of business. Hardly! We don't have it because, at least for most of my adult life, the U.S. media has generally ignored the Third World...unless there is some sort of conflict that supposedly affected U.S. national security -- or......... a horrible natural disaster exploded! There will be more U.S. reporters in Haiti this coming week than the cumulative total of the last 50 years. Here's Layne's acerbic but correct comment:
January 13th, 2010 at 10:25 pm
Well, facts have a liberal bias, so I am not sure that these pictures and film footage are little more than an Obama conspiracy to pour our hearts out for people in his birthplace. And even if it is real – these people just weren’t financially responsible, so they brought this on themselves. And to think that we should sacrifice our money in the form of donations to a country that…allows Cuba to help them out! And allows dark, shadowy socialist outfits like “Doctors Without Borders” to come in and help with the dying and sick!!! Blah! Blah! Blah!
January 14th, 2010 at 5:59 am
A good primer on Haiti is the book Mountains Beyond Mountains, by Paul Farmer, M.D.
January 14th, 2010 at 6:17 am
The book (which I heartily recommend) is actually by Tracy Kidder, but it”s about Paul Farmer
January 14th, 2010 at 9:49 am
And even if it is real …
Yeah; I’m sure Getty Images, the NYT, Reuters, and the AP just staged it all like a theater production. Talk about set designers.
Earthquake in Haiti – 48 photographs [Not "safe" for dial up connections.]
January 14th, 2010 at 9:51 am
*sigh* Link fail.
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/01/earthquake_in_haiti.html
January 14th, 2010 at 10:18 am
When you point out a direct contradiction in Marc
Cooper’s thinking, you are likely to be told you
are dumb, that you can’t “keep two ideas in your
head at once.”
Well, I guess. Because everything in this laudable
post directly contradicts everything Cooper wrote about
the Gary Condut fiasco in 2001, where bottom of
the barrel journalism was a O.K. in an instance when it
could be twisted (that’s for sure) as ammo against
The Clintons.
Bob Somserby has started blogging his book
“How He Got There” about Bush in 2000. Everyone
owes it to themselves to face up to this work.
the story of what happens to a country when it’s
“thinkers” write from the perspective of Jay Leno’s
Junior High Yuk Yuks.
Ask yourself, if Bill Clinton got caught with a woman
this week, would Marc Cooper give a damn about
Haiti?
January 14th, 2010 at 10:46 am
Clearly, some people are less worried about the Haitian deaths and more focused on personal psychological drives, like personally attacking a conservative commenter by using a fake name, and others are too stupid to know what’s real and contrived. No compassion and no brains there.
Let this be a warning to you people in California waiting for “the big one” and expecting everyone else to bail your out. Make your contingency plans now or get out of there while you can.
When you give money to help the Haitian rescue efforts, if any of you do, make sure that it goes through an American organization, like the American Red Cross and CARE, rather than some anti-American outfit like the U.N. or Obama.
January 14th, 2010 at 11:50 am
Yeah, how could anyone possibly be so “brainless” at to confuse the poster of a screed (10:25 pm) blaming the victims, attacking Obama, and attacking relief efforts….with a poster blaming the victims, attacking Obama, and attacking relief efforts? (10:46 am)? We are totally different. What those Haitians really need instead of food, water, medicine, etc. is a new copy of Sarah Palin’s book! What a purty woman! Blah! Blah! Blah!
January 14th, 2010 at 11:51 am
Just like Woody to tell me how to donate my money.
January 14th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
“Ask yourself, if Bill Clinton got caught with a woman this week, would Marc Cooper give a damn about Haiti?”
Um…yes.
Stay charming, Charmer!
January 14th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
It’s fictional, but Madison Smartt Bell’s trilogy of novels on the Hatian revolution is good. I also liked CLR James’ the Black Jacobins. But enough of that….time to go donate some money.
January 14th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
As if Pat Robertson’s insanity wasn’t enough, we get more compassionate conservatism – of the Troll Boy stripe – from Limbaugh…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/14/limbaugh-weve-already-don_n_422958.html
The right-wing has gone completely off the rails. Nothing is too scummy or too stupid. I don’t believe there’s any such thing as a conservative movement in this country anymore, only a noisy contingent of cranks, reactionaries and opportunists that overshadow pockets of old-school conservative commentary that are isolated and increasingly embarrassed.
And if you haven’t seen the Beck/Palin interview clip yet about “favorite founding father”, go to HuffPo or wherever and check it out. The emptiness of these two is stunning. Only PT Barnum’s maxim can explain their celebrity. Even Rupert Murdoch has got to be laughing at his audience, all the way to the bank.
January 14th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
Any conversation which attempts to talk about the montrous disastor in Haiti while negating the political history, which drastically worsened the impact of the earhquake’s impact, is to indulge in the American media’s game of disastor porn. No political analysis and no history. Can we not at this point mention that Haiti represented to the world the triumph of liberty and equality when it launched a successful rebellion against slavery. That France especially, should be held legally responsible for the criminal levy it imposed on the newly-liberated Haitian republic after the world’s first successful slave revolt and pay reparations; the US owe the Haitians for their role in ousting the democratically-elected Aristide government.
January 14th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
Reg,
She’s more like Bart Simpson than anything else.
January 14th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
Actually, that first night Maddow got right to the core issues of what was going to be done and who was going to do it. She was immediately covering the tactical-logistical issues involved which is what is on one one’s mind who is sitting dumbfounded and helpless in front of a tv set. It was a breath of fresh air. Then I turned to CNN which was full of sensational garbage.
For a few minutes late this morning I caught their screaming tinight at nine earthquake horror announcement. And Anderson Cooper slobbering over dead bodies on the pavement. I was going to call CNN and make complaints abou the sheer monstrousness of their reporting. Realized it was pointless.
Maddow does seems to be able to grab relevant talking heads and cover relevant issues and given she had that shit up and on air within 4 hours of the quake one has to be amazed.
Whenever there is a crisis the Guardian does a great job of giving a sensible overview…lots of links to blogs and other relevant sites to the story at hand…for anyone interested in not hand wringing over American solipsism.
January 14th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
First off, I agree with Marc that the major US media outlets have been exposed (again) for their skimpy understanding of matters that go beyond celebrity culture.
Second, the ‘hoakster’ meme is getting stale. Could folks simply attempt to rebut others arguments. Would really appreciate it.
Third, reg the Limbaugh link is precious. Precious in its example of how ahistorical the loudmouths can be. I’m on a little work gig in Missouri. Been dialed into the local npr affiliates which have been great. Fascinated by the Haitian diaspora in greater St. Louis (who knew?). Great comment called in by this lady who pointed out that Napoleon was prompted to sell the Louisiana (territory) to the US for pennies on the dollar because that re-enslavement campaign at Saint-Dominque wasn’t going to well.
January 14th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
PS: Olbermann tore Pat Robertson, Fox and Limbaugh at least ten new assholes each over their depraved comments.
I also saw my first Palin for President 2012 bumper sticker, yesterday. Its on a car around the corner from where I live.
January 14th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
To Ahmed Hoakster: re your mention of Haiti’s liberation…the Haitian ambassador was on Maddow and he eloquently flattened the Robertson et al rant with a steam rollin’ litany of how much the US and others owe to the Haitian rebellion which also allowed the US to gain the Louisiana purchase for a mere 3 cents per acre…
January 14th, 2010 at 1:53 pm
Only a brainless liberal and imposter would find fault with a suggestion to allow the United States to get credit for its charitable works rather than allowing credit for American donations to go to anti-American camps.
To a liberal, if the United States does good and looks good to the world, then any suggestion that encourages that is bad and is labeled as “attacking relief efforts.” Ohhhh, let’s not allow the evil, capitalist U.S. to be seen in any light other than greedy, bad, and evil. Send your donations through Cuba.
But, liberals don’t generally give to charities, anyway, so why worry about the suggestion? Just keep demanding that tax money be taken away and spent how you want it spent rather than use your own money.
A liberal is only compassionate when he sees a political gain to be made.
January 14th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
Guardian has excellent coverage and a live news blog…which notes that the NY Times is running an awesome blog from Haiti.
January 14th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
Woody, one can only wish you had been in Haiti 48 hours and about 10 minutes ago.
January 14th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
I agree with “Hoakster” to an extent that of course the mainsteam media is missing the larger important narrative which really needs to be discussed. I’d reccomend that people who are ignorant of the washington consensus’ imperial meddling in Haiti read my homeboy Max Blumenthal’s exceptional new piece over at his website for a primer. All that said, with a nod to history, it seems unneccesarily critical to me to attack the media for showing the shocking extent of the devastation and soliciting aid. Unlike alot of aid money pumped into the development complex, immediate relief money is often more effectively and directly used to deal with the very urgent realities on the ground. Maybe this truly horrifying footage that we are seeing will shock us out of our complacency, even if only for a moment. Im just so saddened by this situation that I can’t bring myself to be critical of people who are trying to help. Its time to open up our wallet book while not forgetting that we ought not to pay attention to palces only in moments of crisis
PS an amazing movie about Haiti and Aristide’s corruption/connection with violent gangsters is called ‘Ghosts of Cite Soleil’, if you haven’t seen it i -highly- recommend it.
January 14th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
Only a brainless Wookie and imposter would find fault with a suggestion to allow the Rebel Alliance to get credit for its charitable works rather than allowing credit for Rebel Alliance donations to go to Galactic Empire camps.
To a Wookie, if the Rebel Alliance does good and looks good to the world, then any suggestion that encourages that is bad and is labeled as “attacking relief efforts.” Ohhhh, let’s not allow the evil, capitalism Rebel Alliance to be seen in any light other than greedy, bad, and evil. Send your donations through Endor.
But, Wookies don’t generally give to charities, anyway, so why worry about the suggestion? Just keep demanding that tax money be taken away and spent how you want it spent rather than use your own money.
A Wookie is only compassionate when he sees a political gain to be made.
January 14th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
“Only a brainless liberal and imposter would find fault with a suggestion to allow the United States to get credit for its charitable works r….”
‘But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.’
-Matthew 6:16-18
January 14th, 2010 at 7:48 pm
Here’s a little line of inquiry I did not learn from the news-readers on the telly:
The population of Port-au-Prince in 1982 was approximately 450,000. By 2005 estimates put the population up around 1.2 million and nearly 1.8 million if the surrounding towns and villages are included. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Haiti
So the question is why? Why did the population jump so much in the course of a generation?
Before the political turmoil of Aristide’s tenure, Haiti imposed a 35% tariff on imported rice (the main dietary staple). After the US invasion of 1995, a hyper-liberalization of trade was insisted upon and demanded of Haiti. The tariff was chopped down to 3% (!!!). Haitian markets became awash in “Miami Rice.”
http://www1.american.edu/TED/haitirice.htm
In the Haitian countryside, one can guess what this lowering of the tariff meant to farmers and field workers. Farmers couldn’t get a decent price for their crops. Field workers were unemployed. Where did they go? Probably Port-au-Prince.
Since it’s still impossible to interact with the news-readers on the telly, maybe these questions and comments are worth sharing with the dude next in line to us the next time we’re standing in line at the grocery store.
January 14th, 2010 at 8:34 pm
Of course one has to be careful not to be pegged as some sort of vulgar Marxist, but when Hurricane Mitch whipped out Honduras about 11 or so years ago, wasn’t it true that due to the collapse of the indigenous agricultural sector there, the peasants were forced to constantly move further and further uphill in the countryside? Too much concentrate of crops for export by the big fruit companies constantly forces the poor off the land. Didn’t the removal of too many trees and over-farming of the countryside adjacent to Tegucigalpa so degrade the top soil to the degree that when Hurricane Mitch struck, the city below was virtually helpless to the massive mudslides. The damage and cost to rebuild Honduras then exceeded the value of Honduras’ entire GDP? Ah, but what’s all this ‘natural disaster’ stuff got to do with economics?
http://www.bananas.org/f300/yes-we-have-no-chiquitas-8904.html
Forty-fooking-nine cents a pound at Wal-Mart!
January 14th, 2010 at 9:44 pm
One thing I did and do care about is how the Clinton Admin continued the disgraceful policy of intercepting and returning the famished leaving Haiti. Quite a record.
January 15th, 2010 at 6:51 am
“And if you haven’t seen the Beck/Palin interview clip yet about “favorite founding father”, go to HuffPo or wherever and check it out. The emptiness of these two is stunning. Only PT Barnum’s maxim can explain their celebrity. Even Rupert Murdoch has got to be laughing at his audience, all the way to the bank.
Murdoch, the Queen of Tabloid, is definitely laughing reg. But money making Roger, on the other hand, may very well think this stuff is NEWS, which probably makes the Queen bend over from both laughter and lauding allegiance.
It’s only a matter of time before Pat Robertson get his gig on Fox. Woody would qualify too, if he were able to make himself an ass more publicly, TV style.
January 15th, 2010 at 6:52 am
Clinton se kriminèl, wi!
January 15th, 2010 at 7:03 am
The handpicking of FOX, WSJ, Brietbart, WingNutDaily and TownHall in covering the Teabaggers’ convention – to exclusion of any other press – is the greatest coup for independent journalism since the People’s Daily was given full access to cover the CCP convention in Beijing last year.
January 15th, 2010 at 7:05 am
Now for my right wing style. If only the other tight-ass networks would report to the people the ‘whole story’, then Fox News would not have audience it has.
It doesn’t and never has, so therefore, Fox is needed as competition, too ‘keep them honest’ as President would say, regardless of Fox’s obvious bias also.
I find CNN a pretty good balance between MSNBC and FOX. I go to MSNBC to get the left’s ‘story’ and to Fox for the rights ‘story’. Then to CNN for the whole ‘story’.
January 15th, 2010 at 7:14 am
I want help to go to Haitians, but these should get it last.
A new tv would look good over the fallen mantle.
Looting on Rise amid Haiti’s Growing Desperation
Brilliant idea. This should help.
Angry Haitians block roads with corpses: witness
January 15th, 2010 at 7:15 am
Re-do on that last one.
Angry Haitians block roads with corpses: witness
January 15th, 2010 at 7:25 am
I am really sicker than my namesake. Help Me!
January 15th, 2010 at 7:28 am
…not the Haitians.
January 15th, 2010 at 8:17 am
Everyone in here who thinks that reading Haitian history or the history of european pillaging of the Carib islands or making jokes about this tragedy rather than looking for a chance to help these folk should be ashamed. This is not a time to pontificate.
International Red Cross… and others are gearing up. Donate people, don’t pontificate.
January 15th, 2010 at 9:04 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uBDU9NMG0U&feature=related
January 15th, 2010 at 9:08 am
I don’t quite understand how reading Haitian history is on par with making jokes about a tragedy. Obviously the moment calls for reaching out, but it only takes a few minutes to donate – so trying to find out more about why this country is uniquely ill-equipped to cope, aside from the magnitude of the disaster, doesn’t strike me as obtuse. (Lord knows, Haiti is off most peopel’s radar unless something awful happens beyond the grinding poverty and bad government.) Equating Rob’s or other comments about Haitia with some of the other crap on this thread from folks whose names I refuse to mention is nonsensical. Making jokes and attacking the victims, telling people NOT to donate or suggesting this thing was brought on by devil worship or some such is another thing entirely. I’m wondering, incidentally if Limbaugh still gets interviews with the Bushes and the Cheneys, and invites to be the hero of CPAC – or is there actually a line on the “conservative” side that ever gets drawn ? Actually, I already know the answer…
January 15th, 2010 at 10:17 am
Science on 2010 Haiti earthquake
Haiti was warned in 2008 about the fault under Port-au-Prince
They couldn’t do much on that while trying to survive. At least people in California could be doing something for themselves with their knowledge.
- – -
I guess he’ll deny the existence of evidence on this, too.
I hope that a certain person on this site has a problem with that.
January 15th, 2010 at 10:43 am
Wow.
January 15th, 2010 at 10:48 am
“or making jokes about this tragedy rather than looking for a chance to help these folk should be ashamed. This is not a time to pontificate.”
Why can’t we simply do both? As I said earlier on, the enormity of the sufferring, which is both horrendous and beyond our understanding, obviously calls us to do what we can. To evoke a Hatian proverb “Tout moun se moun / All people are people”. That said after that if the crisis offers us an opportunitty, in a country where so many people know next to nothing about the world outside their borders, to learn about Haiti and its history that’s a good thing. I’d argue that if we don’t dig deeper and onlhy look at the damage, then abandon thinking critically about politics and history, we run the risk of engaging on what my friend Max called “disastor porn”.
As for Rope a dope perhaps he should show some good faith here and denounce the hate mongerers and unreconstructed racists on his side of the political spectrum, who are using this time, in the face of the deaths of over 100 000 people, to further their men spirittted and toxic political agenda. Time for you to call out Robertson and fucking Limbaugh. Then your condemnations of pontificating might get a hearing.
ps here’s Max’s piece
http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/01/how-washingtons-plot-against-haiti-worsened-the-disaster/
January 15th, 2010 at 11:07 am
“Why can’t we simply do both?”
You’re right, Ahmed. Also, very interesting post by Blumenthal. There’s a lot to chew on there…
For the record, I did send some $. Thanks to handy links over at BH.
January 15th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
In all its horror and tragedy, this event reminded me of a long-ago essay by Garrett Hardin, titled “Nobody Ever Dies of Overpopulation.” It was written in response to a hurricane that hit southeast Asia (referred to as a cyclone in the article), killing perhaps hundreds of thousands of people. Hardin fleshed out the argument further in other writings, pointing out that when hundreds of thousands or multi-millions of people live in areas that are vulnerable to storm flooding and other natural events, it is likely that there will be mass casualties. When millions are malnourished, they are highly vulnerable to epidemics. The current spate of articles that analyze the inadequate construction, bad design, and so forth in Haiti implicitly make the same case without realizing it.
Hardin made a harder case, one that was generally unpopular amongst liberals, that the United States has a right to protect itself against becoming overpopulated by refusing to accept the overflow from other countries that were themselves not only overpopulated, but were also exporting their excess population to the U.S., western Europe, and other places. Paul Ehrlich’s Population Bomb was the 1960s version of Hardin’s later work. The social consequences of adopting these policies are painful and contentious (re: Marc’s view of Clinton’s treatment of Haitian refugees). The question is whether there is some way around the mathematics of population growth.
It may be that there is, namely educating women (that appears to slow population growth by itself) and making birth control available and understood. These became so effective in western Europe that some of the European nativists have been openly worrying about decreasing population. Unfortunately, the Bush administration was politically hostile to spreading birth control and did a lot of harm.
http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc0104/article_54.shtml
January 15th, 2010 at 1:01 pm
“Cybercriminals quickly mobilized following the news of a massive earthquake that hit Haiti on Tuesday, by introducing several hundred compromised domains embedded with bogus blackhat seo (search engine optimization) content related to Red Cross donations and general Haiti earthquake relief information.”
More info: http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=5244&tag=nl.e539
January 15th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
Thanks for the security update, Roper. Since you were the one who (in a wrong headed sense, IMHO) brought up the issue of “pontificating” and politicizing can you show some good faith by firmly taking on the moral cretins on the right, who have demonstrated a callous indifference border on psychotic to Haitian lives–Limbaugh and Robertson. Thanks, man
January 15th, 2010 at 3:01 pm
Isn’t Scott Ritter a Republican? If so, that is yet another member of the GOP embroiled in this type of scandal.
January 15th, 2010 at 4:20 pm
The paradox is that Ritter was a Republican outraged by scandal.
January 15th, 2010 at 5:21 pm
can you show some good faith by firmly taking on the moral cretins on the left, who consistently use foul language rather than deal with those on the right argument for argument?
Actually, I’ve had several hostile email exchanges with some on the right who don’t believe in reaching out to the folk in Haiti. Have you had some on with the left for any reason or do you just like to make “Do you still beat your wife” comments such as “…can you show some good faith by firmly taking on the moral cretins on the right…”
January 15th, 2010 at 5:43 pm
“Actually, I’ve had several hostile email exchanges with some on the right who don’t believe in reaching out to the folk in Haiti. ”
Fellow tea baggers, moral cretins who comment on your web site, those who are aligned to you politically and personally? Im curious as to how you know these folks who would be so cruelly callous to the death and suffering of so many people in the first place. When this story vanishes from the paper will you continue to count them as allies in the brave struggle against Barack. Will Limbaugh still count as a voice of some kind of authority for you? Listen guilt by association is not a tactic I’d employ but I’d be frankly stunned if anyone who I shared some kind of political affinity with didnt believe in helping those dying on the streets of Haiti .You on the other hand field email. exchanges from them and count them among your allies. Dig deeper Roper
ps I also asked specifically about your reaction to Robertson and Limbaugh as you brought up the issue of pontificating
January 15th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
Sometimes Roper comes in here with a clear-headed and unadulterated plea on behalf of something very sensible. In this case he says, “Hey let’s make sure we’re not just talking, and find a way to help these people,” but somehow he’s getting loads of shit for it. He’s being asked to defend who his friends are and justify who sends him email.
And even though I don’t really get his rather dainty sensibility about swearing, he’s just echoing and reinforcing that we ought to do what we can. I think you should lay off already. I think shooting off calls for good faith can just stop. Not necessary. Silly. Insipid and beside the point right now.
I mean I think it’s reasonable to conclude that if Roper says we shouldn’t pontificate, instead we should help, that he inherently rejects Limbaugh’s argument, and I’m not sure why he has to make some public show of that to make Ahmed happy.
Sheesh. (Although I agree with reg on the history point).
January 15th, 2010 at 6:41 pm
At least we get to see the (magical!!!) crocodile tears that the Republicans have been shedding over Harry Reid and his comments go away in light of Oxymoron’s rather virulently racist remarks regarding Haiti.
Interesting how that story has completely disappeared from the press, huh? No liberal bias there…
January 15th, 2010 at 7:25 pm
Dan O thanks for a rational response. Turn turn there is a season for everything. This is a season for material aid. I notice the Israelis sent a sprecial team to Haiti. This does not change my view of Gaza but i am pleased the israelis are there. Hugo Chavez sucks. I applaud the Venezuelan relief effort. US history in Haiti is abhorrent. I am proud if our vigorous response and the awesome projection of our power for something useful. Too bad we can’t yank our troops out iof Iraq and occupy Haiti. It would be cheaper and more useful.
As to Scott Ritter it would appear he is neither a Repub or a Dem but rather a sad ass pedophile. We of course will await ajudication for final determination.
January 15th, 2010 at 7:26 pm
Roper – you’ll get no quarter from me when you come here shouting “foul” but let your comrade’s garbage trucked into this thread go unremarked. Personally, I think you’re one of the biggest morons I’ve ever come across (check out his pean to Palin that graces the top of his blog), one of the most steeped in self-regard (“IQ 140″) with nothing but barrages of bilge to back it up, that you’re absurdly sanctimonious (which is the provenance of your huffing about anyone noting Haiti’s history in the wake of this disaster) and a fucking hypocrite (ignoring your blogmates cesspool diviing while sitting on your high hobbyhorse rattling about the “moral cretins” of the left.) Most folks who read this blog know who the moral cretins are…
You’re a phony IMHO. And frankly, I’ve already wasted more time debunking you than you deserve.
January 15th, 2010 at 7:30 pm
Before we discuss any particulars regarding Scott Ritter, I would ask anyone who is still awake to consider exactly what the purpose of his even being dragged – absurdly I might add – into this discussion was. It was an extension of a rotting piece of shit attempting to slime another commenter here as a child molester, which he’s done serially (probably mostly over on Celeste’s blog) because he got called out for anti-gay bigotry. Moral cretinism run amok…which, of course, the Pious Mr. Roper pretended not to notice.
January 16th, 2010 at 8:52 am
Did the Obama administration change the policy on Haiti? They haven’t changed much of Bush Policy’s in general, and Mr. Cooper has had zero to say about it. But I will take Mr. Cooper’s evasion as an honest “no” to my question. Sorry Allie, Mr. Cooper has celebrated trashy, gutter journalism (when they are going after people he does’t like, of course) too ofter to make your certain answer very credible.
January 16th, 2010 at 9:42 am
Me (earlier): I hope that a certain person on this site has a problem with [Scott Ridder].
Well, I should get used to disappointment. His concern was that it was brought up rather than it happened. Does it matter that a young girl was the target rather than little boys?
January 16th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
A very sick, dishonest little sack of rotting garbage we’ve got waving his arms here…
January 16th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
I wonder why Woody has such an interest in Scott Ridder. Worried about getting caught maybe?
January 16th, 2010 at 1:14 pm
I was impressed with this org and its where my donation is going and have sent email to all I know about it.
Scrounging between the disaster porn I discerned that it has been the on the ground Christian orgs that have had better response time, sensible responses and are always chronically underresourced.
Amongst constant image replay on CNN is the result of a UN truck trying to deliver packaged survival rations that were rejected and a truck of locals handing out containers of real food and being civilly accepted plus another piece of footage with nuns in Mother Theresa like habits fanding out food and no chaos. There was no commentary but I noticed….plus amongst the slobbery reporting one could grab at telling information as to who was actually making headway.
Anyway: http://www.artistsforpeaceandjustice.com/
January 16th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
“I am proud if our vigorous response and the awesome projection of our power for something useful.”
Actually, this is one of those cases where the bathwater needs to be thrown out, too. Haiti hasnt made a “pact with the devil”, no it’s northern neighbor has too often drown it in sadness and misery. The fact that the US even has an ability to project “awesome power” is in fact the problem, and out inability to allow nations to develop sovereign from our political and economic dictates shaped the entire policy towards Aristide. We sit on top on a global system of apartheid and its time to take in our own complicity as opposed to celebrating some one off way of helping, in a time of need. For saying this Im sure that Cooper will no doubt accuse me of being some Amy Goodman following acolyte even if I share many comment friends with him such as Doug Henwood!
January 17th, 2010 at 3:06 am
What have you done for Haiti Steve? Nothing but hold up a political protest sign?
I figured as much.
January 17th, 2010 at 10:54 am
Steve Hoakster has really brought me to my senses. Given our record of decades of colonization of Haiti, support for the DUvaliers and lots benign or malicios neglect, we were wrong to have projected our power in earthquake relief. Instead, we should have committed and act of penance and ordered the 82ns Airborne into L.A to pillage Beverly Hills and set the city afire in solidarity with Port Au Prince. Of course.
January 17th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
You forgot the part where you call me an amy goodman worshipping acolyte even though we shares Henwood as a pal, Cooper. As for our “awesome projection of power” here are the countries that had relief teams in Haiti before the USA: China, Cuba, Iceland. And USS Comfort hospital ship arrives when? Heck of a job!
January 17th, 2010 at 7:47 pm
I’m amazed that many of the folk in here don’t more often get on reg and Ahmed’s case about them consistently wanting to make any conservative responsible for other conservatives because they know them.
Dan, thanks for the comment.
reg, kiss my ass!
January 17th, 2010 at 7:48 pm
hmmm, broke my own rule about cussing… My apology reg.
kiss my fanny… there, that better?
January 17th, 2010 at 7:51 pm
Ahmed: “ps I also asked specifically about your reaction to Robertson and Limbaugh as you brought up the issue of pontificating”
I think responding to the above a complete waste of time since it will have either no effect or next to no effect on you. I therefore choose to ignore your request a being unworthy of you.
January 17th, 2010 at 7:59 pm
Dan O. Actually, when I got out of the Army in 1970 (Christmas Eve to be exact) we gathered at my mom’s house for Christmas dinner. My mother’s dad was a Methodist preacher and my mom’s mom was a dear little old lady typical of many preachers wives. At any rate, gathered around the table I turned to my dad as we were discussing local politics and I said “What the Fuck did they do that for?” My grandmother halted her soup spoon half way to her mouth for a second or two, I turned to dad and said “I didn’t really say that did I?” Which he answered in the affirmative.
Since then Dan, I’ve always tried to remember that my words may reach people that I had not necessarily intended for them to reach. Therefor, I should be careful of my speech and respectful of the possible sensibilities of others. Besides, adding an occasional cuss word is fine. Using them like a machine gun uses bullets is simple minded and shows a lack of erudition methinks.
January 17th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
Since then Dan, I’ve always tried to remember that my words may reach people that I had not necessarily intended for them to reach. Therefor, I should be careful of my speech and respectful of the possible sensibilities of others.
Which makes your silence at the comments by someone who referred to a decorated disabled veteran who left three of his four limbs in Vietnam as “Stumpy” all the more puzzling.
January 18th, 2010 at 6:30 am
Randy, you have no idea what goes on outside of this forum between woody and me. I notice that there is a wall of silence between the more moderate members of this group and reg who routinely uses language that I very much doubt he would use in front of his (or your) mother/grandmother. I would also like you to consider this: God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the person I can and the wisdom to know that that person is me. I am responsible for my actions, not yours, not anyone else’s Your silence on the foulness of some of the fascistic behaviors of the Obama administration is troublesome Randy.
January 18th, 2010 at 7:11 am
Randy, you have no idea what goes on outside of this forum between woody and me.
If reg – or anyone – made fun of someone’s disability or used racist language, or he would be booted from my blog. In my opinion that’s a far greater obscenity than an occasional f-word.
Your silence on the foulness of some of the fascistic behaviors of the Obama administration is troublesome Randy.
That argument is so lame it doesn’t rise to the level of tu quoque as a logical fallacy.
The day when the Obama administration starts finding ways to justify the use of torture, sets up secret prisons around the world, and aggressively uses signing statements to expand his power, you might have an argument.
Until then, however, all you’ve really demonstrated is why it’s hard to take you seriously.
Warm regards,
Randy
January 18th, 2010 at 8:17 am
Well said, Randy.
January 18th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
Thanks, Kyle. I think it had to be said.
January 18th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
For what its worth Roper, who acts like Mr Manners over here, while fraternizing with the truly deranged fringe on his blog, has on his blog offered up a truly pathetic apology to Rush Limbaugh for his earlier mild criticism regarding Haiti. So much for not pontificating or exploiting a human crisis…
March 10th, 2010 at 9:50 am
The are really the sexy girls I like