Impeachy Keen
The suggestion that a special prosecutor be appointed to investigate Gonzo seems a tantalizing notion. It would be gratifying to watch the AG do some more squirming.
Put aside all the dissembling about Gonzales’ dubious testimony on the NSA spying program/s. His role is promoting a policy of torture should be enough to get him grilled.
I’ve also come around to supporting Senator Feingold’s idea of a congressional censure for the President. When he first proposed the move last year, I thought it wasn’t viable. I’ve changed my mind– mostly because there is now a Democratic majority on the Hill. Harry Reid has already let us know, though, it ain’t gonna happen. The usual sort of invertebrate response.
What makes censure attractive is that requires nothing but a imple up/down majority vote. In other words, it’s immediately within reach of the Democrats — but they don’t want it.
Which is what continues to make impeachment of the president such an absurd notion. Those who keep insisting on it are but stroking themselves. If you can’t get the Dems to vote a simple censure, how you gonna get the Dems plus 17 Republicans to toss Bush from office? On the eve of an election no less? Josh Marshall, though tempted by impeachment, spells out the political realities:
Congress at present can’t even get to the relatively low threshold of votes required to force the president’s hand on Iraq. Coming out for impeachment under present circumstances is like being so frustrated that you can’t crawl that you come out for walking. It seems to elevate psychic satisfactions above progress on changing a series of policies that are doing daily and vast damage to our country. Find me 17 Republican senators who are going to convict President Bush in a Senate trial, and maybe we’ll talk.
We don’t even need to talk very much. A simple show of hands for censure would be enough right now.
July 29th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
Congress gets lower ratings than Bush. Censure truly would be the pot calling the kettle black and would only represent more wasted time rather than substantive legislation.
Why don’t the blue states just consider secession? We’d all be happy. New York could even keep the U.N.
July 29th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
“We’d all be happy”
“All ? ” You’re a fucked up little minority Woody. Get used to it.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:28 pm
Let’s follow Marc’s logic here:
Democrats who are unwilling to pursue censure and/or impeachment are “invertebrate,” presumably because they’re unwilling to stick their necks out for such an obviously a noble cause.
Activists who stick their necks out for this obviously noble cause are “absurd” and ”stroking themselves.”
Make up your mind, Marc. Why do you expect activists to be less idealistic or active or radical than their elected representatives?
Impeachment doesn’t have to succeed to have achieved something noble. Give every Senator a chance to record his or her vote for history, for or against and let them, their conscience and their career, live with the results.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
Well, maybe the “activists” should start out by lobbying the Democrats to support Feingold’s censure motion, just to demonstrate that they can actually influence what the Democratic Congressional leadership does. Then there might be a stronger case that impeachment would be possible. As things stand now, there is little hope of either happening because the “activists” mainly talk and blog and little else.
July 30th, 2007 at 6:32 am
Michael Balter:
Oddly enough, I agree with Michael. However, I doubt that the nutroots have enough clout or are determined enough to make it happen. As Marc and others have said, if they can’t even get their act together enough to do the things that they CAN do, what makes anyone think they could pull this off.
But, I’d love to see them try. It would make them more ridiculous than they already seem to be.
Minority reg… you mean the 15% that hold Congress in high esteem? That minority?
July 30th, 2007 at 6:43 am
Nice try Roper – but tell me about the coming Republican victories. And your “wisdom” regarding the “good news” in Iraq – how “purple fingers” were a harbinger of democracy and we were “winning”. (I said at the time that the elections had ratified sectarian divisions. I also remember you deriding me when I told you that Bush’s war had effectively expanded Iranian power more than ours in the region.)
Come up with somthing better than the fact that people are frustrated by a Congress held hostage by GOP deadenders, and I’ll quit laughing at you.
July 30th, 2007 at 6:44 am
Oh and Roper – how about that Attorney General ? BushLove has really paid off…
July 30th, 2007 at 6:48 am
Given that Blue States send much more back to the Federal Government in taxes that in it receives in services and Red States – with a few exceptions – do not, good riddance. Please, by all means secede – again. We’re tired of carrying you.
You can see the details from 2000 here:
http://tinyurl.com/2otwfw
July 30th, 2007 at 7:01 am
Randy, you’re such an idiot. Do you think that businesses and wealth would not migrate to the U.S. if New York stopped being part of the union? New York City would go bankrupt, again, and businesses would desert by the handfuls. New York and California have collected wealth only because they are part of the U.S. But, even now, businesses relocate to the sunbelt to get away from abusive union laws, high state taxes, and mandated benefits.
Having said that, don’t get too far off topic from Marc’s post of encouraging censure by an already failed and unpopular Democratically led Congress.
July 30th, 2007 at 7:02 am
Amen to that sentiment. But is it fair to leave our “true blue” brothers and sisters in the clutches of the “red meanies”, who happen to have a temporary numerical advantage in certain regions ? African-Americans, in particular, might consider that a betrayal, given their negative experiences with some of these same folks in earlier eras.
July 30th, 2007 at 7:13 am
Woody – your “economics lesson” leaves a lot to be desired. I guess bean-counting doesn’t entail any broader knowledge. I’ll take California’s economy over that of the South any day. Stack your entrepreneurs and innovation up against ours. Or productivity, for that matter. No comparison. If you think our economic success has anything to do with the fact that rednecks half a continent away happen to exist primarily as a consumers of our federal tax dollars, you’ve got your own neck stuck in your posterior. And of course, the “low-tax” states are always hanging around, sort of like cheap hookers in back alleys, trying to attract our businesses to move (generally low-end) operations there once they’ve grown and become successful in the places that provided the cultural/educational environment, infrastructure and human capital that lend themselves to innovation and growth. This is a broad brush, but it’s on PhD thesis level compared to your inept response to Randy’s facts about Gingrichites sucking merrily at the federal tit while blowing “anti-gummit” smoke out of their asses.
July 30th, 2007 at 7:25 am
Randy, you’re such an idiot. Do you think that businesses and wealth would not migrate to the U.S. if New York stopped being part of the union?
Woody,
Your mother should have tossed you out and raised the placenta instead as it probably has a better grip on reality.
What makes you think the red states represent America? Here’s the mainstream:
http://tinyurl.com/32sj8u
Choke on the truth, cretin.
July 30th, 2007 at 7:30 am
reg, you and Randy are birds of a feather. If Silicon Valley was in Baja California instead of California, USA, it would still be a deserted wasteland ,and its people would be trying to slip across the border to the U.S. Hollywood would be in Florida. You are going from “what it became” rather than “what it would have been” if California had remained part of Mexico or become an independent state.
BTW, the “low-tax” states are getting jobs for poor people, who slipped through the glorious and expensive war on poverty waged by people like you and which has only succeeded in making people more dependent on government than less dependent, which accounts for much of the influx of federal dollars tot he South. Go away, and we can do a lot better.
Also, don’t forget Marc’s topic. Maybe you can defend a Democratically controlled, big-talk, do-nothing Congress trying to censure a President.
July 30th, 2007 at 7:33 am
In short, Woody, it is more likely that your side would secede – again – from the Union, not mine.
July 30th, 2007 at 7:35 am
Woody – you don’t make any sense. Totally incoherent rambling. Which makes it difficult to respond…
As I said – a fucked up little minority that sounds crazier with each passing day.
July 30th, 2007 at 7:40 am
Randy, check the last election results. Look at it closely. Map I would say that the red reflects Ameica a lot more than the blue.
The blue’s French guy couldn’t beat the red’s American guy, and that is the “poll” that counted. Pictures Even today, I would still vote for Bush over Kerry.
When Democrats are exposed and people understand, the Democrats lose. The polls show that people are catching on and have “censured” Congress in public opinion.
Stay in New York. The South is doing fine without you.
July 30th, 2007 at 7:41 am
reg, if what I wrote doesn’t make sense to you, then it’s you, not me.
July 30th, 2007 at 7:58 am
“reflects America” – actually Woody, as anyone who’s not a partisan hack knows, the real map of America has been purple – a mix of opinion and party loyalties nearly everywhere, including the midwest, southwest and south. But it’s gettin “bluer” overall and will continue to get more so, thanks in large part to the zealots, wingnuts and BushCo incompetents who’ve shown us “conservatism’s” ass over these past years (see the recent in-depth polling of young people, who are trending heavily Democrat and liberal.) America is its people. Long swaths of blacktop where few people live is definitely part of the picture, but the population centers are hardly “red”. Your sleight of hand with that silly map just proves what a clueless and increasingly desperate little wingnut you are.
July 30th, 2007 at 7:58 am
Woody,
The last election was in 2006. You can find the results here, in a much more intellectually honest form:
http://tinyurl.com/yhlghw
As this shows 2004 in a much more intellectually honest form:
http://tinyurl.com/6ptjb
You see Woody, as you clearly don’t know, people vote in elections, not plots of earth. I can understand why you want to use the great expanses of emptyspace in states like Montana and Wyoming as the remind you and me of the space between your ears.
July 30th, 2007 at 8:00 am
“The polls show that people are catching on and have “censured†Congress in public opinion.”
So you’re predicting GOP electoral victories in ’08 – or are you just blowing that last bit of smoke out of your butt ?
July 30th, 2007 at 8:09 am
While you keyboard warriors argue with internet crafts, war criminal torturer GW Bush is sending billions of dollars of weapons of death to Israel and Egypt for years to come, and (S)Hillary is stating US Imperial troops will stay in Iraq during her entire term.
Keyboarding won’t do much.
July 30th, 2007 at 8:17 am
What’s your plan Sergio (other than continuing to cruise Wilshire against the wishes of Michael Balter) ?
Frankly, you strike me as the biggest wankers here. I have yet to actually learn anything or derive anything concrete or constructive from one of your comments.
July 30th, 2007 at 8:18 am
The Obama campaign needs willing “warriors”. Maybe you could harness your obvious frustrations into something useful and do some legwork. (Showing your class Woody Allen films ain’t gonna turn the tide.)
July 30th, 2007 at 9:05 am
reg, seriously, we agree on lot of things, but why do you spend so much time on this blog wanking away with your fellow wankers, including me, Woody, Randy, Sergio, et al? Couldn’t your time be better spent stumping for Obama? Is it some kind of compulsive blogging syndrome? Your verbosity is truly awesome.
July 30th, 2007 at 9:10 am
Look hard and you will see “do nothing” is the key phrase in Woody’s latest talking points from Limbaughsville. The Repubs in Congress are dancing the obstructionst mambo with a fever the Dems simply would never have been able to get away with… they would have been slaughtered in the press who treats this epic hypocracy as “politics.”
Gonzo is simply the public face of shame for a White House that even now contiunes to get a pretty easy ride in the Press. Someone of Scooter Libby’s level convicted and pardon in the Clinton White House? Washington might be burned to the ground by the Heritage Foundation with Cummings cheering them on.
So I guess, by the way, Bill Clinton’s big mistake was (sort of) commiting purgery in a political nusance suit too early in his second term. Remember that the next time Marc Cooper calls Hillary Clinton an opportunist.
July 30th, 2007 at 9:24 am
I used to think that this might be a useful forum to express some semi-coherent opinions, blow off steam, etc. Not so sure anymore. I’ve also been blogging at Beautiful Horizons which is more satisfying and less knee-jerk wanky. If this takes time away from anything more urgent right now, it’s a speculative writing-research project that I don’t want to face.
I find it a bit ironic that I’m the one getting criticized for not doing enough to stop Hillary. As for managing my life, it’s going pretty well, thank you very much. (A lot of my commenting here I do when I’m “working” because my work often entails a lot of waiting for other people to get their shit together and I’m usually ahead of schedules.)
July 30th, 2007 at 9:25 am
I believe that Woody purports to be an accoun tant so I guess he got his degree from the Enron School of Number Crunching. That is the only way that his “Economic” comments make any sense. I know that this will be useless – sort of like trying to explain Matrix Mechanics to a five year old – but I’ll try.
Woody seems to be under the delusion that the great burst of Economic Activity occurs in what he calls the “Low Tax” states and that beneighted areas like California and New York are able to exist because they cling to these vital areas. Sorry but that’s ass backwards. California, by itself, is the sixth largest economy on the globe today and produces more new jobs annaually than the whole South combined. And that’s not the only Blue State that does that. In fact the Blue states, as a group, are NET TAX EXPORTERS. We send more in revenues to Washington than we get back. And those “Dynamic” “Low Tax” Red states? Well they are NET TAX IMPORTERS. If you want to know who is living off whom look around you Woodster – its your benighted region. Where are your “Silicon Valleys”? or Rt 128s? Only one I can think of is Research Triangle in North Carolina that is anchored on Duke and UNC. Why little UCI here in Orange County California is now anchor to a growing biomedical and bioengineering powerhouse which would be far beyond your region’s educational attainments.
Oh, and then your region leads the nation in personaal bankruptcies, unwed mothers, teenage preggers, and poverty. Fact is, if we secceeded you’d go down the drain. Alabama is a low tax state. See everyone rushing there to do business?
Hope your clients get better advice – but then they probably just started to wear shoes!
July 30th, 2007 at 9:37 am
The South is doing fine without you.
Really:
See for yourself: http://tinyurl.com/2cfqfx
http://tinyurl.com/2cqohl
http://tinyurl.com/29nkfy
July 30th, 2007 at 9:37 am
Now let us get back to the point of Marc’s rant. I really want to know where he gets the idea that Feingold’s censure resolution couldn’t be filibustered by the GOP. Of course it could and they would. And Russ is only proposing it because he knows, as our genial host appears to not know, that Impeachment resolutions can only arise in the House.
Let me reiterate a point. Impeachment of Gonzales (and the votes for it may be there in the Senate – the Republicans there want to dumpm him), Bush and Cheney are called for because that is the constitutional remedy. What good are oversight powers if the Executive claims privilidge and orders (a compliant) Justice Department to ignore Contempt prosecutions. Just who do you think would enforce that action? Right, mr “I Can’t Recall!” And the Courts? Sure Alito and Roberts – of the Federalist Society “Unitary Executive” will really strike down Bush’s claim. Sorry but Impeachment is the option of choice.
But Marc Argues that the votes to convict aren’t there. He is right but so what. I refer the gentleman to the remarks of Bruce Fein and John Nichols on a recent Bill Moyers broadcast. It is important to make the case for future administrations. Otherwise they will inherit a toolbox that contains these powers and we might as well accept that the old Republic is as dead as Rome and forget the founders and start living our lives as Imperial Subjects. No, I think it makes perfect sense to implement proceedings to Impeach these three and begin collecting the evidence to do so. What is impractical and fantastic is to ignore the founder’s remedy and let these crimes stand.
July 30th, 2007 at 9:41 am
Randy, don’t be such an idiot! Idiot! Stupid idiot! If you’re going to come up with a thought experiment where the union splits in to blue and red states you shouldn’t assume that the places that are currently prosperous will stay prosperous. Obviously the poor places will become rich and the rich ones will become poor. I can’t believe how stupid you are. Stupid moron idiot dummy.
July 30th, 2007 at 9:44 am
Finally it is true that Congress has low ratings. But those ratings are for inaction. The public – and particularly the Democratic public – wants action.
On Impeachment the country is split according to the ;last poll I saw with 45% wanting to go after Bush and 45% opposed. A Clear majority – 54% – want to Impeach Cheney.
So the support is there and we haven’t heald hearings which would, IMHO, raise those numbers and the malfeasance, misfeasance, and nofeasance of this administration was laid out for the the public to see in one place.
And if Marc really want to get action why not support Cindy Sheehan who threatens to run against Nancy Pelosi in the primary next year if the Speaker does not allow Impeachment inquiries to go forward.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:40 am
“Couldn’t your time be better spent stumping for Obama? Is it some kind of compulsive blogging syndrome? Your verbosity is truly awesome.”
I’m going to give Balter the benefit of the doubt and assume he was saying this with a smile, gently ribbing reg. But I’m nevertheless going to respond by saying that it’s always been clear to me that reg is hella’ smart (to borrow a NorCalism), and puts his thoughts up quickly because he has a lot of damn good ideas to share. His parrying with Marc and rlc is one of the biggest reasons for my coming here (and I doubt I’m the only one), because I learn a lot when I read the back-and-forth. And as for political organizing, I think it’s quite clear (and refreshing) that reg is indeed putting his money where his mouth is, and actually expending real outside effort into supporting a candidate, as imperfect as that candidate may be. How many of the rest of us are doing the same, rather than whining about how few protests there are, or criticizing others for wanking (all while, ironically, wanking away–btw, can we put a moratorium on the word ‘wanking’? If blogging is wanking, then every comment here, ipso facto, is a wank)?
Okay, before you all start thinking I’m on reg’s payroll, I’ll shut up.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:46 am
You idiots just don’t get it. If your precious blue states (actually blue urban centers,which is an important distinction) had not been part of the U.S., then they never, and I mean never, would have achieved the economies that they have. If they were to leave now, believe me, major corporations would be jumping out of NYC faster than illegal immigrants are jumping in. Just look at the difference in economies of the areas on each side of the border dividing California and Mexico.
—
The positive tax inflows to the South occur in great part for two reasons.
First is national defense (Ft. Benning, for example) which is money spent in Georgia to benefit the entire nation. If you don’t want us to train the military and defend the coastline aand airspace from Texas to Virginia, please send us a memo.
Second are “entitlement” payments (I hate that phrase), which were never around during reconstruction and forced the South to rebuild on its own, thus creating disintegration of schools in the region and making the area impoverished rather than the once prosperous area that it had been. Those payments today resulted from decisions of the blue areas, so don’t blame the recipients.
Today’s payments to address horrible statistics that you quote are primarily intended for and directed at blacks, who represent a greater percentage of the Southern population and whom you subtly but intentionally attack. You’re discussing an economic issue aggravated by cultural problems, for which your side decided to spend trillions in tax money with few positive results after forty years and while turning your heads to the real issues.
So, when you pretend to attack the South, we know that you really mean black people. Admit it, biggots.
As for me, we’re doing a lot better in Southern suburbs than most people do in Queens, especially one in particular, who would only make the statistics worse if he returned to the area.
—
reg: Finally it is true that Congress has low ratings. But those ratings are for inaction.
Really? Says who? Maybe Congress starting almost 300 investigations is considered inaction to the Left, but it’s a lot of activity that is considered a waste of time and a waste of resources by rational people who see Congress as unable to lead and as putting Democratic politics ahead of national interests.
Congress wouldn’t censure the President, because it is doing even worse.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:52 am
No question this blog would be deadly dull without reg. But I do worry about him sometimes!
July 30th, 2007 at 10:53 am
Must be slow tax time too. Oh wait, the rich folks Woody works for don’t pay any taxes!
July 30th, 2007 at 10:57 am
As for me, we’re doing a lot better in Southern suburbs than most people do in Queens
Offered up typically without a shred of proof.
especially one in particular, who would only make the statistics worse if he returned to the area.
I swear I’d rather have Zell Miller give me a colonoscopy than live in Georgia – again.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:58 am
Today’s payments to address horrible statistics that you quote are primarily intended for and directed at blacks, who represent a greater percentage of the Southern population and whom you subtly but intentionally attack.
Also offered up without proof.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:59 am
“reg: Finally it is true that Congress has low ratings. But those ratings are for inaction.”
I hate to put a dent in my vebosity quotient but I didn’t write that. rlc did, and of course he’s right.
July 30th, 2007 at 10:59 am
uh…”verbosity”
July 30th, 2007 at 11:02 am
Woodyt those bases were in Geogia and South Carolina because Richard Russel was Chair of the Senate Armerd Services Committee and Mendel Rivers of the House. Someone once noted that it seemed that the Pentagon felt it would never fight in cold climates since there were few bases in the NorthEast.
Course all the weapons were made in MA or CA. In fact half half the procurement dollars were spent in the Golden State. You’ve to be able to count above ten to design them yoiu know!
July 30th, 2007 at 11:04 am
Re Congress’ ratings – check the crosstabs on the pollinmg question. I know it’s hard but if you’re really an accountant you ought to be able to crunch some numbers.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:04 am
Re Congress’ ratings – check the crosstabs on the pollinmg question. I know it’s hard but if you’re really an accountant you ought to be able to crunch some numbers.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:06 am
I find it incredibly ironic that Woody blames the South’s backwardness on black people and their “cultural problems” and then calls us bigots.
If only Yankees would quit their meddling…
July 30th, 2007 at 11:20 am
You guys are the ones who quoted the hand-picked statistics which applied particularly to blacks, such as teen motherhood. Meddling by the blues haven’t helped those mothers but only made it more acceptable and economically possible.
Sorry that I referenced reg rather than rlc on the quote. There’s not a lot of difference, though.
BTW, rlc, just how long ago did Richard Russell represent Georgia? Wasn’t it something like around seventy-five years ago that he was elected to the Senate and wasn’t he a New Deal supporter? Did he have so much influence that Democrats are afraid to change things this much later. Oh, wait! Russell was a Democrat.
I’m still waiting on Congress to censure Bush. Maybe they’ll get to it after they solve Iraq.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:25 am
Newt Gingrich is predicting a Clinton-Obama ticket for 2008. Think Obama would go for that, reg?
July 30th, 2007 at 11:31 am
I waiting to see if reg will admit to agreeing with something that Newt Gingrich said.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:47 am
Good to hear that white people in the south don’t have a history of “cultural problems” like the black folks do. I guess the legacy of slavery and segregation is something that blacks brought on themselves and perpetuate with their “cultural problems”. All of that Yankee meddling – what with civil rights legislation, Head Start programs, Medicare, food stamps, college loans, legal services, aid to families, etc – just made things worse !!! (I know this because I hear it all the time from Right Wing Cultist invoking the unbiased expert, Charles Murray. Despite the empirical fact that family poverty dropped dramatically in the wake of LBJ’s poverty programs.) Too bad we can’t go back to the good old days before all of these liberal boondoggles when the White South was able to deal with these issues according to the discreet, sensitive and gentlemanly methods common to their lovely culture, and without succumbing to “cultural problems” that have resulted from tampering with The Good Old Days.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:56 am
“Think Obama would go for that, reg?”
I doubt it. And frankly, I think its a typically dumb Gingrich prediction because I doubt Hillary would pick him. She’s gotta try to do too much damage to him over the next 6 months if she does succeed and lock the nomination.
But the real question is, why would Obama want to be the # 3 person in an administration, after Hillary and her “roving ambassador” ? It would be a waste of his talent. The Senate isn’t optimal to keep one’s Presidential options open, but I think if Obama can’t beat Hillary this time, he could become a real force in the Senate and have more credibility in ’16 than after 8 years as the guy who gets to go the the funerals that Bill can’t fit into his schedule.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:04 pm
(Glad I remembered to delete “sam” from the Name space before I posted that last comment – that would have been embarrassing)
July 30th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
Of course Obama would accept the VP slot. Don’t be rediculous
Rlc… I’ll let u manage Cindy Sheehan’s campaign. I prefer to buy some popcorn
July 30th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
Marc — The whole point of Marshall’s article — and he can take a lot of the credit for exposing the AG mess — is that he did the math, but he’s starting to question if this political calculation is defensible in the light of recent events, such as the White House putting itself outside the law in so many ways.
As he says:
***
But in recent days, for the first time, I’ve seen new facts … they’ve made me question whether my position is still justifiable in the face of what’s happening in front of our eyes. [...] And I’m less sure now, under these circumstances, that operating by rules of “normal politics†is justifiable or absolves us of our duty to our country.
***
I understand that your stance always tilts toward political reality rather than political morality. But in omitting discussion of the significance of Marshall’s recently increasing doubts, aren’t you doing him, and the current situtation, which seems to be getting worser faster, a disservice?
July 30th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
Curious that you assert that so emphatically Marc. I guess there’s a chance he would, but it’s hard to see it happening if the contest between them heats up along current lines. I also don’t think it’s in Obama’s constitution – he’s got at least as much of an ego as Hillary, and with more justification IMHO – to play what would, in fact, be third fiddle in a Clinton administration. I think he’d be more of a star in the Senate, which seems to suit his personality and ambition. Why are you so quick to consider it “ridiculous” that he wouldn’t want VP ? Is it a surefire track to the Presidency in ’16 that only a fool would reject ? Because other than that, I don’t see Hillary’s Veep having much power to influence anything.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
I don’t think so, Marc. Although I could imagine a set of circumstances where I might hope he did. Let’s say that Obama and Edwards split the primary vote between those who wouldn’t like to see Hillary at the helm. Then, let’s imagine that Hillary actually takes the ’08 election AND manages to hang on for a second term. At that point, the Dems are the incumbents with a successor in the wings. If Obama could win that first term, then I can imagine the Dems carrying the flag forward for an extended run. But, that’s a boatload of ifs.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
Case in point: a precipitous American withdrawal from Iraq used to be unsayable, subject to all sorts of what-if’s (including from you). But now even major newspapers have called for it on their editorial pages (LAT and NYT).
July 30th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
Woody, if you seriously think that teen motherhood is an African-American issue only, you are way off base. It seems to be a function of poverty. To the extent there is a cultural effect, I believe the “tradition” of teen motherhood is as strong among poor white people, especially in the South, as among poor black people.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Is it a surefire track to the Presidency in ‘16 that only a fool would reject ?
And, there lies the $64,000 question. I’m asking myself if the Democrats have the kinds of strategists, and could deploy the kind of party discipline it would take to make that happen. I regret that the Dems as a party may not be sufficiently cut-throat to play that game. I’d like to think they are, but it takes a bigger leap of faith than I can muster.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
[Mutters to self... Must remember that Submit does not mean Preview.]
… I’d like to think they are, but it takes a bigger leap of faith than I can muster. Still, unless the Dems want to play the Presidency as an occassional thing that they do, it will take strategists and party discipline to keep them from being a one note song.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Anyone who thinks that Hillary would pick Obama as a running mate hasn’t been paying attention. The idea that she would run a woman – black ticket is crazy. As Bill Maher put it on his recent HBO special that’s just too much non-white maleness for the country to accept.
July 30th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
And Woody there were more Southern Whites on AFDC than Blacks. I know you’re from Georgia but really, stop using “Gone With the Wind” as your bible on race relations.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
And Marc I LIKE Nancy Pelosi. I just wish she’d go along with letting John Conyers do what he wants to do. Namely start Impeachment proceedings. You’re the one always pissing into the tent. Don’t like Sheehan? Name your choice. Put up or shut up!
July 30th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
“The idea that she would run a woman – black ticket is crazy.”
The irony, of course, is that so far as I can tell from the polling on the both of them, Obama would more than likely DECREASE the tickets negatives.
July 30th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Well, if O’Bama is on the ticket, I guess the Republicans can kiss the black vote goodbye.
July 30th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Good one Woody…you got a laugh from me. And intentionally for a change.
July 30th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Also, if he runs, using your spelling, as “O’Bama”, he’ll lock the Irish vote.
July 30th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Cute, Woody.
I’m sure there’s still Clarence Thomas, and Thomas Sowell for the Republicans to pander to. One of them is probably ‘bright’ enough to swallow Mitt, Rudy, Fred, or John’s line.
July 30th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Woody really is a doof. America hates all of congress, not just the Dems. They more or less hate all of our government. For good reason as well.
July 30th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
RLC
I don’t much think that Conyers likes Sheehan much either. He had her arrested.
Conyers has sold out, though he’s nothing more than a part of a semi-corrupt semi-progressive Detroit political establishment, but he’s done good things. but when the shit hit the fan, he called the cops on Sheehan, Ray McGovern et. al
Not only is he against impeachment, he’s for jailing activists.
July 30th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
Did you think Sheehan and McGovern wanted to sit in John Conyers’ office for weeks on end, with the Chairman feeding them milk and cookies and holding marccooper.comesque discussions about impeachment ? Isn’t this all part of the political theater ?
July 30th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
If someone had made the argument that black people were generally disadvantaged by their previous status as slaves and simply hadn’t had time to recover Woody would have howled about personal responsibility. Instead we get the argument that the South itself is a victim. Perfect! They’re still suffering under the yoke.
How far has China advanced economically in the last 140 years? I guess the South really is inferior. I’m from Tennessee so I know what I’m talking about.
July 30th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
Great point about the political theater, reg.
July 30th, 2007 at 6:03 pm
Reg, those hypotheticals are not helpful. In fact they enable reaction.
July 30th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
Incidently, we now know the position of the confirmed Democratic party hacks, also known as Stalinists.
http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/5616/1/274/
July 30th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
I was just recently hipped to this marginal stalinist rag of the CPUSA and I can’t believe how much they sound like reg.
July 30th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
My cover is blown…
July 30th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
Read some of it. Don’t take it so seriously – these are the Dems shock troops. I mean they aren’t even on the left of the party!
July 30th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
Oh this is really getting to be too rich! Now Comrade cummings from the Great White North asserts that Dems are Stalinist hacks since they are the “Shocki Troops” of some CPUSA survivor!
Comrade Reg and I will have to hold a party meeting to fathom our new line after digesting this revelation! Really, just what kind of bs grad program are you in up there?
July 30th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
Ya wanna meet on that same park bench ? I’ll bring the bread crumbs for the pigeons.
July 30th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
Really, just what kind of bs grad program are you in up there?
Dabbling 101.
July 30th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
Read the mag, dude. It is pure Democratic hackery, even defending John Conyers. It is not even on the left of the party, lauding Hillary for preaching “unity” (reminiscient of those “broad coalitions). It is just humorous to me, as a marxist, to see these “communists” acting as shock troops for Obama and Hillary.
July 30th, 2007 at 7:39 pm
Political Philosophy, with an aim towards classical Marxism and revolutionary theory, Pre-Marx.
July 30th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
kendali, even in Alabama they tell jokes about Tennessee. Someone from Fairhope sent me this joke today. “At the Tennessee agricultural school, they found a new use for sheep—–wool!”
July 30th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Course in Geogria they read “Tobacco Road” to see how their betters live!
July 30th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
A couple of comments: It’s not the Dems’ fault, but it is true what Cummings says, that the CPUSA “line” is 100% uncritical pro-Democratic Party. Part of the Popular Front strategy left over from, oh, say, 1937. Poor bastards.
As to Obama taking the VP slot if proferred by Hillary: I’m currently offering 3 to 2 odds on that one. Im taking the yes he will side of the line. All comers welcome. So speaking of putting your money where your mouth is, the book is now officially open for your action (and I’m already spending the money of the naive suckers who will take me up on this wager).
You really have to be swimming in the Kool-Aid to believe that some sort of principle would keep the junior senator from Illinois from becoming the first black VP in American history. You’ve gotta be kidding. By the way, there’s a $25 minimum on that wager.
Which brings me to me my final point, addressed to Lo Cicero. Let me see if I get this right, I somehow have to choose between Nancy Pelosi and Cindy Sheehan? Why is that? I prefer None Of The Above. Pelosi is a nice liberal party machine operator (and I believe the wealthiest member of the House, no?). Cindy Sheehan is an aggrieved mom who, quite understandably, is sort of crackers. Anyway, Richard, it’s not my job to support this or that candidate. As I said, I’ll leave that humanitarian work to you. And hope ur feeling better physically. Been there and done that.
July 30th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
Okay, Marc. I’m not convinced – not even close – but I won’t argue the point given that you are dead certain Obama would accept. But then real Q is, if Hillary is the nominee would she ask him ? I’ll take any odds you want on that – against. Even if you’re right about Obama’s drooling to be #3 in Clinton Redux, I’m certain you won’t get reimbursed for the money you’re currently throwing around on the strength of this bet. He won’t be her Veep even if he wants to. Unlike Gore – on the longshot that he would leap in and team with Obama, which I think Obama would do without any hesitation – she’s got her own “rock star” to campaign for her and doesn’t need Obama’s higher charisma quotient to “balance” the ticket. I also don’t think she much likes the upstart kid who’s more likely than anyone else to put bumps in her road. Especially after he managed to counter her post-debate attack and effectively win the second round of this flap.
July 30th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Incidentally, would you counsel the CPUSA to go back to their more “pure” third party efforts, a la 1948 and 1952 ? (Poor bastards, indeed.)
July 30th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
It appears impeachment of Gonzales is now on the table. Inslee to speahead.
House Democrats to seek impeachment inquiry for Gonzales
By MATTHEW DALY
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER
WASHINGTON — Some Democratic House members – including several former prosecutors – said Monday they will seek a measure directing the House Judiciary Committee to investigate whether to impeach Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.
Rep. Jay Inslee, D-Wash., who was a prosecutor in Washington state in the late 1970s and 1980s, is the lead sponsor of the measure.
http://tinyurl.com/2yp8hh
Ruth Marchus already has an op-ed piece up defending Gonzales. http://tinyurl.com/yw3nte
July 30th, 2007 at 8:52 pm
Incidentally, MC, I don’t believe “some sort of principle” would keep Obama from accepting a nomination (which he won’t be offered). I think it will be more a matter of some calculations about the realities of being the least powerful Vice President in American history and his own sense of ambition and confidence that he can build his own “presidential” resume without spending 8 years being snubbed by the First Couple.
July 30th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
…. sigh
spearhead, not speahead
Ruth Marcus, not Ruth Marchus
[not to self. must proofread. must proofread]
July 30th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
Yes I would council the CPUSA to support legitimate progressive operations like they did in 48. Henry Wallace was twice the man Truman ever was, and pushed Truman left to support civil rights measures to allay the threat of a left candidate.
July 31st, 2007 at 5:28 am
Woody, your Tennessee joke would be funny if it weren’t so true. I left there years ago. Sounds like ewe have personal experience in the matter.
July 31st, 2007 at 7:16 am
kendali, Alabama became a safe haven for sheep from Tennessee after their baaaad experiences.
Hey, rlc, do people in California watch “Deliverance” and dream of living in Georgia one day?
To pull those thoughts together, here’s a couple other old Tennessee jokes.
“If a married couple from Arkansas moves to Tennessee and gets a divorce, are they still brother and sister?”
and
Two Tennessee Rednecks, Bubba and Jim Bob, are sitting at their favorite bar, drinking beer.
Bubba turns to Jim Bob and says, ‘You know, I’m tired of going through life without an education. Tomorrow I think I’ll go to the Community College, and sign up for some classes.’ Jim Bob thinks it’s a good idea, and the two leave.
The next day, Bubba goes down to the college and meets the Dean of Admissions, who signs him up for the four basic classes: Math, English, History, and Logic. ‘Logic?’ Bubba says. ‘What’s that?’
The dean says, ‘I’ll show you. Do you own a weedeater?’
‘Yeah.’
‘Then logically speaking, because you own a weedeater, I think that you would have a yard.’
‘That’s true, I do have a yard.’
‘I’m not done,’ the dean says. ‘Because you have a yard, I think logically that you would have a house.’ ‘Yes, I do have a house.’
‘And because you have a house, I think that you might logically have a family.’ ‘I have a family.’
‘I’m not done yet. Because you have a family, then logically you must have a wife.’
‘Yes, I do have a wife.’
‘And because you have a wife, then logic tells me you must be a heterosexual.’ ‘I am a heterosexual.
That’s amazing, you were able to find out all of that because I have a weedeater.’
Excited to take the class now, Bubba shakes the Dean’s hand and leaves to go meet Jim Bob at the bar. He tells Jim Bob about his classes, how he is signed up for Math, English, History, and Logic.
‘Logic?’ Jim Bob says, ‘What’s that?’
Bubba says, ‘I’ll show you. Do you have a weedeater?’
‘No.’
‘Then you’re a queer.’
Sorry, Marc. People can take those jokes as seriously as they take comments from others.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:00 am
Thats actually quite funny. Regional and ethnic groups will forever have jokes about the people on the other side of the hill. My family’s from Galicia, now in Poland Romania, and there are tons of old jokes about the Jews of Bessarabia who in turn had jokes about Galicians. (Most North American Jews are from this area of East Europe)
To be very un PC a lot of these jokes were about how swarthy the other Jews were. You can find a lot of this stuff in the writer known as Sholom Aleichem and the Chelm stories….funny stuff and the roots of Jewish humor up to larry david. Paul Buhle has a great book on how Jews invented American pop culture (which is why Josh Legere hates us
July 31st, 2007 at 8:12 am
What do you call a 13 year old in Georgia who can outrun her brothers?
A virgin.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:07 am
What do you call a 13 year old in New York who can outrun HIS brothers?
July 31st, 2007 at 9:18 am
A top prospect for HS Football
July 31st, 2007 at 9:54 am
What do you call a 13 year old in New York who can outrun HIS brothers?
Fast.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:54 am
Why do Southern Baptists not have sex standing up?
Someone might think they are dancing.
July 31st, 2007 at 7:29 pm
The guy who actually wrote the oft mentioned torture memo is named Jay Bybee. He sits on the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and Democratic Senators Chuck Schumer and Harry Reid voted to confirm him. Gonzalez didn’t write the torture memo. Talk about propaganda…
September 29th, 2007 at 1:54 am
Wiklliam…
This was one time where I have to agree to disagree…
December 16th, 2007 at 2:10 am
Tom…
Do you really believe what you write?…
March 20th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Are there any live demos?
May 31st, 2011 at 7:07 am
“it is the next left menu tab after Appearances, in your Admin”…
“For the database you need to make a database yourself.”…