The forecast for the next period through the Independence Day Holiday is for light to non-existent postings; perhaps an occasional shower or two of words. But mostly quiet until a.m. hours of July 5. See you then
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So am I, now that the Supreme Court has ruled that the Bush administration can’t put people in jail and throw away the key. Of course, that is the kind of reaffirmation of the constitution that this American stands for, but there are still some Americans who will stand for pretty much anything.
Can we all make a pact not to let Woody dominate this thread? I’m so tired of his trollish ramblings and wacko links getting a response. His only purpose is to annoy and provoke, so just do what works best with a pesky little sibling: ignore.
Since Marc is leaving us alone for a couple days, here are some LA Times opeds that I found interesting:
“I know of no other system that works better”–John Meade
That could simply be a sign of your ignorance. Depends on what we are talking about. Providing health care to those who most need it? The US is barely in the competition. Infant and maternal death rates? Just above Third World. I could go on.
Michael Balter, government and economies aren’t cafeterias where you can easily pick and choose benefits from different systems. Once you decide that government “cradle to grave” benefits are desired, then you abandon the individual incentives and competition, which brought most people to this country in the first place.
I think that you have to stand back and look at the overall picture without nitpicking individual programs. Either you like our overall system or you like Euope’s systems. I like ours, warts and all, better than their with a greater potential for self destruction and bankruptcy.
Speaking of our great country, breaking news of more atrocity accusations. Time to hang it up in Iraq, American credibility there is completely shot if it ever existed. To see how it all happened, read George Packer’s “The Assassin’s Gate” if you have not already, because it demonstrates how the bunch of Woody-like fuckups in charge of our country created what will go down as one of this century’s greatest disasters.
5 G.I.’s Are Reportedly Investigated in Killing of Iraqi Family
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: June 30, 2006
Filed at 11:51 a.m. ET
BEIJI, Iraq (AP) — Five U.S. Army soldiers are being investigated for allegedly raping a young woman, then killing her and three members of her family in Iraq, a U.S. military official said Friday.
The soldiers also allegedly burned the body of the woman they are accused of assaulting in the March incident, the official told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case.
The U.S. command issued a sparse statement, saying Maj. Gen. James D. Thurman, commander of coalition troops in Baghdad, had ordered a criminal investigation into the alleged killing of a family of four in Mahmoudiyah, south of Baghdad. The statement had no other details.
The case represents the latest allegations against U.S. soldiers stemming from the deaths of Iraqis. At least 14 U.S. troops have been convicted.
The United States also is investigating allegations that two dozen unarmed Iraqi civilians were killed by U.S. Marines in the western town of Haditha on Nov. 19 in a revenge attack after one of their own died in a roadside bombing.
”The entire investigation will encompass everything that could have happened that evening. We’re not releasing any specifics of an ongoing investigation,” military spokesman Maj. Todd Breasseale said of the Mahmoudiyah allegations.
”There is no indication what led soldiers to this home. The investigation just cracked open. We’re just beginning to dig into the details.”
However, a U.S. official close to the investigation said at least one of the soldiers, all assigned to the 502nd Infantry Regiment, has admitted his role and been arrested. Two soldiers from the same regiment were slain this month when they were kidnapped at a checkpoint near Youssifiyah.
The official told the AP the accused soldiers were from the same platoon as the two slain soldiers. The military has said one and possibly both of the slain soldiers were tortured and beheaded.
The official said the mutilation of the slain soldiers stirred feelings of guilt and led at least one of them to reveal the rape-slaying on June 22.
One of the accused soldiers already has been discharged and is believed to be in the United States, two U.S. officials said on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. The others have had their weapons taken away and are confined to Forward Operating Base Mahmoudiyah.
The official said the killings appear to be unrelated to the kidnappings. He said those involved were all below the rank of sergeant.
Senior officers were aware of the family’s death but believed it was due to sectarian violence, common in the religiously mixed town, he said.
The killings appeared to have been a ”crime of opportunity,” the official said. The soldiers had not been attacked by insurgents but had noticed the woman on previous patrols.
If you put two-hundred thousand troops together, you have a good size city. In any city, you will have crime, and the rate for the city of soldieres seems quite small by normal standards.
A city’s isolated criminal activity doesn’t condemn the town developers or mayor. Crime occurs everywhere. This alleged and unproven crime has nothing to do with U.S. policy and is being handled correctly as a criminal investigation. It’s a real stretch and incorrect one to link them.
Fortunately, the bunch of Woody-like fuckups in charge of our country have cooler heads and can reason this through without knees jerking up and knocking us senseless. And, fortunately, French mentality doesn’t rule this nation. Otherwise, the entire nation of Iraq would still be under dictator rule with no hope while U.N. and French representatives cover for the slime in exchange for bribes.
“Otherwise, the entire nation of Iraq would still be under dictator rule”
And since Iraq is now a democracy, perhaps Woody would be interested in how its PM sees things, which is probably mild compared to how ordinary Iraqis view it. What we are dealing with is the attitude of occupiers, not liberators.
“On June 1, as the political furor over Haditha was building, the Iraqi prime minister, Nuri Kamal al-Maliki, lashed out at the American military, saying that violence against Iraqi civilians by American troops was a “regular occurrence.”–NYT
” What we are dealing with is the attitude of occupiers, not liberators.”
After I read this and just before I even got to your last paragraph above Michael, in all honesty I said this guy has been reading way to much NYT. And low and behold you follow up your negative attitude with another negative the NYT found to undermine the Iraqi peoples deep and courageous desire for the freedoms you enjoy and have long since taken for granted.
The NYT and their like have prolonged this struggle in their attempts to win….er, I guess that would be lose, another Vietnam for themselves, causing the loss of countless more lives in their deep belief nothing is worth fighting for. Because well, they have never had too. Freedom is free, when it’s free.
They are losers Michael, and dangerous ones at that. You should be careful of the company you keep, lest it rub off.
So the Iraqi Prime Minister is “another negative the NYT found to undermine the Iraqi people’s deep and courageous desire for the freedoms you enjoy and have long since taken for granted”?
I thought he was voted in by the Iraqis. Also the idea that there is an inherent “deep and courageous desire for the freedoms” enjoyed and – yes, perhaps – long since taken for granted” in a country where orthodox Islamic fundamentalists, not to mention what amount to tribes nostalgic for a dictator, hold the balance of political power and, yes, can win elections in much of the country shows you’ve been drinking the Kool-Aid. The problem of developing a functioning civil society and reasonable stability – much less the kinds of freedoms Michael Balter no doubt cherishes – in Iraq is hardly isolated to a small group of outside insurgents. The Kurds, who aren’t really Iraqis and would love nothing more than to form a fully independent country with their brothers in Iran and Turkey – which is a just goal, but would cause terrible regional problems in reality – are the only segment of Iraq that are even close. The idea that the New York Times have “prolonged this struggle” is, with all due respect, something close to insanity. Really, Jim, you’re starting to sound like Woody. If you think the mess in Iraq is the fault of the New York Times – beyond their original complicity in hyping the WMD scare – it’s an indication that you haven’t been following the bouncing ball. Not even a little bit. There’s a lot of good information on what’s happened in Iraq and why the conflict has been prolonged – George Packer’s Assassin’s Gate is a good start, but also Cobra II and, for a chronicle of Iraqis on the ground, Anthony Shadid’s Night Draws Near. And lots of excellent press reports by courageous reporters. This crap about the New York Times having “prolonged the war” is beneath you. Really.
“their deep belief nothing is worth fighting for. Because well, they have never had too. Freedom is free, when it’s free.”
That’s really funny, because the people who pushed us into this war are, overwhelmingly, a group of clowns and ideologues who’ve never fought for a goddam thing except in Beltway forums and the pages of position papers. Really a bunch of fat asses and wonkish wimps – Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz, Feith, Wurmser, Ledeen, Kristol, Bush, Rove…damned near the whole sorry lot. Talk about pussies with free passes. And, of course, glib ideolgically-driven notions of “freedom” that have little or nothing to do with the blood, sweat and tears of real people and real history and everything to do with their deep belief in the absolute necessity – even virtue – of projecting American power as the anchor of the Middle East. Personally chickenshit, politically crazy. Hubris is too elegant of a concept to apply to these punks.
Actually that essay is (modestly) interesting as an exercise in common sense…and applies to the group I mentioned regarding the war in Iraq – both their rationale and plan for prosecution – as a textbook case.
“I thought he was voted in by the Iraqis.” Not really accurate – he was chosen by political barter, haggling and pressure from the U.S. ambassador – but you know what I mean.
Woody, I’m going to give you something to think about that perhaps you can actually understand. When a “conservative” administratin commits nearly the entirety of our mobile ground forces and reserves to a war – supposedly in response to a direct attack on the United States – and they can’t get Tom Clancy, Pat Buchanan or Merle Haggard on board, I would think it’s an indication that there’s something amiss.
A sharp and savvy guy like you Reg had to know I have had a problem keeping my sanity for some time now. Sometimes I do better than others. Why you choose to out me now, I just don’t know. But it was personally hurtful.
If it was because it looked like I may be getting dangerous to myself, then you’re forgiven. It’s Woody’s god who made me the way I am then put me into an insane world with very few clues and no help.
I’m feeling better now that I have finished my treat for the weekend. A no-holds-barred, guiltless I-have-earned-it huge fried-in-bacon-fat double eggs, double biscuits, double beans, double gravy and double biscuits topped off with an extra large glass of buttermilk. And I did it all by myself.
Hope this southern boy’s(when I was a boy) idea of the ideal breakfast doesn’t create another debate of it’s own here.
The insanity starts btw, when you begin to wonder if the one you’re told has created you, with a plan in mind, didn’t have any clues to give….or a plan.
reg, before you can analyze another’s rationale for going into and staying in a war, you have to agree upon their reasons, for which yours are not the same as I understood the real ones to be.
Think back over twelve years of Hussein ignoring the peace agreements from the first Gulf War, ignoring U.N. resolutions, buying off foreign officials to overcome sanctions, having used WMD on your own people and having them in stock (he had them), refusing inspections, and cooperating with terrorists (he did.) Those reasons go far beyond yours of a “direct attack on the U.S,” which is wording that I haven’t seen from the administration.
Also, this matter goes beyond accepted reasons, as many on the left actually acknowledged them as legitimate. It goes to patience. How long do you give a dictator to comply? One year, five years, twelve years? Bush saw no end to delays (which it turned out, in large part, to be caused by those “police” who were being bribed.)
There’s a time to put up or shut up. The U.N. kept talking and wouldn’t back up what it said. So, Bush ran out of patience, made his intentions clear, and gave several months for compliance; but, Hussein and the U.N. kept stalling. So, Bush made good on his word while the U.N. didn’t.
Now, we need to judge the results when the job is over, and that may be quite some while after our troops are gone.
As we approach the fourth, we might take a moment to reflect on the extent to which Ronald Reagan was right. There are indeed people who “blame America first.” They don’t get elected to office, serve in posistions of power in the “left” politcal party, or get major market radio shows. There is as strain in the Academic left that, if not “Blame America Firsters” are, at least sometimes, Blame America Unfairsters”.
Then there are the real problems, the “Blame America Nevers.” These people are Presidents, Senators, and congressmen in the Republican party. They host stupid radio shows, and sell idioic books to insecure Americans who are desperate for a bunking up. The strong strain of Dale Carnegie in the Limbaugh pitch is seldom remarked upon, though it is fused with an equal strain of little guy self pity. You are with us; or you are part of the rich wise guys who are out to get us. O’Reilly’s version: “Who looks out for you?”
So when we invade a toothless country, resulting in amazing expedatures and loss of life (though, you can be sure, SOMEBODY is making a buck in all this), we get silly equasions like the one Woody offers in an attempt to excuse our murderous blunders. Eventually we will have to throw in the towel, those who are dying now are just good lives being thrown after those already wasted.
All because of the ignorant, vain, hapless blame America Nevers. To paraphrase what Phillip Marlowe said about the cops, “nobody’s figured out a way to cut and run from them.”
“having them in stock (he had them), refusing inspections”
Two of your “facts” which are patently false (unless you include decaying chemical shells from the first Gulf War as “WMD” that threatened our national security.) The inspectors were in there doing their work (thanks to Bush) until Bush pulled them back out and the Delfer Report was very clear on the WMD question, including old shells, despite Ricky Santorum’s cracked pottery. If the assholes in charge of this war had been serious about Saddam’s weapons threatening Americans, they would have secured the weapons dumps that the insurgents looted AFTER the invasion and which are being used against our troops.
Somebody else is going to have to take you up on your addled construct of a “casus belli” in the bigger picture. It’s like arguing with a Ken Mehlman doll. Needless to say, most Americans don’t buy your crap and now recognize that Bush dragged us into a full-scale war – no end in sight – without clear national security issues at stake. If we went to war because people violate UN resolutions, we’d have invaded Israel long ago. Coming from the far-right, that “sanctity of UN resolutions” argument is really hilarious and, of course, infinitely hypocritical.
The U.N. kept talking and wouldn’t back up what it said. So, Bush ran out of patience, made his intentions clear, and gave several months for compliance; but, Hussein and the U.N. kept stalling. So, Bush made good on his word while the U.N. didn’t.
You’re still butt stupid.
Saddam agreed to let the inspectors in in December. Bush invaded in March. Three months is not several. Shit it’s barely a few.
Did anyone see Rep Curt Weldon’s “WMDs were found” hearings on CSPAN. Best comedy show in a long time. When David Kay, the chief weapon’s searcher for the Bush crime family reported that the wea;pons were old and less dangerous than what was found under most sinks Weldon exploded – “You don’t know what you’re talking about!”
“As we approach the fourth, we might take a moment to reflect….”
I would attempt to help you with your insanity Wall, but after a more sane afterthought I realized you are probably so far gone it would be like talking to……well, a wall.
I can only hope this gives you something to reflect on. Start by reading you own comment on how you plan to remember America on its Birthday.
BTW, you left out the “Blame America always” category. Pathetic.
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June 29th, 2006 at 5:52 am
Busy buying up all the flags and matches before the fourth? Just kidding.
June 29th, 2006 at 7:32 am
This Fourth of July, I am prouder than ever to be an American. Let the haters hate; I stand with America and everything we stand for.
June 29th, 2006 at 8:14 am
“I am prouder than ever to be an American.”
So am I, now that the Supreme Court has ruled that the Bush administration can’t put people in jail and throw away the key. Of course, that is the kind of reaffirmation of the constitution that this American stands for, but there are still some Americans who will stand for pretty much anything.
June 29th, 2006 at 9:10 am
This ‘hater’ said it best.
“Americans will stand for anything, and they’ll stand for nothing.”
-Gore Vidal
June 29th, 2006 at 10:01 am
Even with our faults, I know of no other system that works better or any other country I would rather live.
June 29th, 2006 at 11:30 am
Can we all make a pact not to let Woody dominate this thread? I’m so tired of his trollish ramblings and wacko links getting a response. His only purpose is to annoy and provoke, so just do what works best with a pesky little sibling: ignore.
Since Marc is leaving us alone for a couple days, here are some LA Times opeds that I found interesting:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-boot28jun28,1,5095761.column?coll=la-news-columns
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-kay29jun29,0,5094884.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions
Thoughts?
June 29th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
Hey, that was all that I was going to say here. Sorry for not agreeing with the rest of the herd. You go ahed with your own wacko links.
June 29th, 2006 at 3:18 pm
“Let the haters hate”
I hate the game, playa. lol
One of these days I should articulate my thoughts on that irrational and dangerous vice-passed-off-as-a-virtue known as loyalty.
June 29th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
Woody the echo buster.
June 29th, 2006 at 5:27 pm
yadda yadda yadda
June 30th, 2006 at 5:47 am
“I know of no other system that works better”–John Meade
That could simply be a sign of your ignorance. Depends on what we are talking about. Providing health care to those who most need it? The US is barely in the competition. Infant and maternal death rates? Just above Third World. I could go on.
June 30th, 2006 at 5:50 am
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html
June 30th, 2006 at 8:55 am
Michael Balter, government and economies aren’t cafeterias where you can easily pick and choose benefits from different systems. Once you decide that government “cradle to grave” benefits are desired, then you abandon the individual incentives and competition, which brought most people to this country in the first place.
I think that you have to stand back and look at the overall picture without nitpicking individual programs. Either you like our overall system or you like Euope’s systems. I like ours, warts and all, better than their with a greater potential for self destruction and bankruptcy.
June 30th, 2006 at 9:14 am
This the either or fallacy always the first choice of radical zealots.
June 30th, 2006 at 9:22 am
Speaking of our great country, breaking news of more atrocity accusations. Time to hang it up in Iraq, American credibility there is completely shot if it ever existed. To see how it all happened, read George Packer’s “The Assassin’s Gate” if you have not already, because it demonstrates how the bunch of Woody-like fuckups in charge of our country created what will go down as one of this century’s greatest disasters.
5 G.I.’s Are Reportedly Investigated in Killing of Iraqi Family
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: June 30, 2006
Filed at 11:51 a.m. ET
BEIJI, Iraq (AP) — Five U.S. Army soldiers are being investigated for allegedly raping a young woman, then killing her and three members of her family in Iraq, a U.S. military official said Friday.
The soldiers also allegedly burned the body of the woman they are accused of assaulting in the March incident, the official told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case.
The U.S. command issued a sparse statement, saying Maj. Gen. James D. Thurman, commander of coalition troops in Baghdad, had ordered a criminal investigation into the alleged killing of a family of four in Mahmoudiyah, south of Baghdad. The statement had no other details.
The case represents the latest allegations against U.S. soldiers stemming from the deaths of Iraqis. At least 14 U.S. troops have been convicted.
The United States also is investigating allegations that two dozen unarmed Iraqi civilians were killed by U.S. Marines in the western town of Haditha on Nov. 19 in a revenge attack after one of their own died in a roadside bombing.
”The entire investigation will encompass everything that could have happened that evening. We’re not releasing any specifics of an ongoing investigation,” military spokesman Maj. Todd Breasseale said of the Mahmoudiyah allegations.
”There is no indication what led soldiers to this home. The investigation just cracked open. We’re just beginning to dig into the details.”
However, a U.S. official close to the investigation said at least one of the soldiers, all assigned to the 502nd Infantry Regiment, has admitted his role and been arrested. Two soldiers from the same regiment were slain this month when they were kidnapped at a checkpoint near Youssifiyah.
The official told the AP the accused soldiers were from the same platoon as the two slain soldiers. The military has said one and possibly both of the slain soldiers were tortured and beheaded.
The official said the mutilation of the slain soldiers stirred feelings of guilt and led at least one of them to reveal the rape-slaying on June 22.
One of the accused soldiers already has been discharged and is believed to be in the United States, two U.S. officials said on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. The others have had their weapons taken away and are confined to Forward Operating Base Mahmoudiyah.
The official said the killings appear to be unrelated to the kidnappings. He said those involved were all below the rank of sergeant.
Senior officers were aware of the family’s death but believed it was due to sectarian violence, common in the religiously mixed town, he said.
The killings appeared to have been a ”crime of opportunity,” the official said. The soldiers had not been attacked by insurgents but had noticed the woman on previous patrols.
June 30th, 2006 at 3:36 pm
If you put two-hundred thousand troops together, you have a good size city. In any city, you will have crime, and the rate for the city of soldieres seems quite small by normal standards.
A city’s isolated criminal activity doesn’t condemn the town developers or mayor. Crime occurs everywhere. This alleged and unproven crime has nothing to do with U.S. policy and is being handled correctly as a criminal investigation. It’s a real stretch and incorrect one to link them.
Fortunately, the bunch of Woody-like fuckups in charge of our country have cooler heads and can reason this through without knees jerking up and knocking us senseless. And, fortunately, French mentality doesn’t rule this nation. Otherwise, the entire nation of Iraq would still be under dictator rule with no hope while U.N. and French representatives cover for the slime in exchange for bribes.
June 30th, 2006 at 9:52 pm
“Fortunately, the bunch of Woody-like fuckups in charge of our country have cooler heads and can reason this through”
Read Packer’s book for its depressing evidence that this is plain wrong. Denial, denial.
June 30th, 2006 at 10:01 pm
“Otherwise, the entire nation of Iraq would still be under dictator rule”
And since Iraq is now a democracy, perhaps Woody would be interested in how its PM sees things, which is probably mild compared to how ordinary Iraqis view it. What we are dealing with is the attitude of occupiers, not liberators.
“On June 1, as the political furor over Haditha was building, the Iraqi prime minister, Nuri Kamal al-Maliki, lashed out at the American military, saying that violence against Iraqi civilians by American troops was a “regular occurrence.”–NYT
July 1st, 2006 at 8:12 am
” What we are dealing with is the attitude of occupiers, not liberators.”
After I read this and just before I even got to your last paragraph above Michael, in all honesty I said this guy has been reading way to much NYT. And low and behold you follow up your negative attitude with another negative the NYT found to undermine the Iraqi peoples deep and courageous desire for the freedoms you enjoy and have long since taken for granted.
The NYT and their like have prolonged this struggle in their attempts to win….er, I guess that would be lose, another Vietnam for themselves, causing the loss of countless more lives in their deep belief nothing is worth fighting for. Because well, they have never had too. Freedom is free, when it’s free.
They are losers Michael, and dangerous ones at that. You should be careful of the company you keep, lest it rub off.
July 1st, 2006 at 9:24 am
So the Iraqi Prime Minister is “another negative the NYT found to undermine the Iraqi people’s deep and courageous desire for the freedoms you enjoy and have long since taken for granted”?
I thought he was voted in by the Iraqis. Also the idea that there is an inherent “deep and courageous desire for the freedoms” enjoyed and – yes, perhaps – long since taken for granted” in a country where orthodox Islamic fundamentalists, not to mention what amount to tribes nostalgic for a dictator, hold the balance of political power and, yes, can win elections in much of the country shows you’ve been drinking the Kool-Aid. The problem of developing a functioning civil society and reasonable stability – much less the kinds of freedoms Michael Balter no doubt cherishes – in Iraq is hardly isolated to a small group of outside insurgents. The Kurds, who aren’t really Iraqis and would love nothing more than to form a fully independent country with their brothers in Iran and Turkey – which is a just goal, but would cause terrible regional problems in reality – are the only segment of Iraq that are even close. The idea that the New York Times have “prolonged this struggle” is, with all due respect, something close to insanity. Really, Jim, you’re starting to sound like Woody. If you think the mess in Iraq is the fault of the New York Times – beyond their original complicity in hyping the WMD scare – it’s an indication that you haven’t been following the bouncing ball. Not even a little bit. There’s a lot of good information on what’s happened in Iraq and why the conflict has been prolonged – George Packer’s Assassin’s Gate is a good start, but also Cobra II and, for a chronicle of Iraqis on the ground, Anthony Shadid’s Night Draws Near. And lots of excellent press reports by courageous reporters. This crap about the New York Times having “prolonged the war” is beneath you. Really.
July 1st, 2006 at 9:40 am
“their deep belief nothing is worth fighting for. Because well, they have never had too. Freedom is free, when it’s free.”
That’s really funny, because the people who pushed us into this war are, overwhelmingly, a group of clowns and ideologues who’ve never fought for a goddam thing except in Beltway forums and the pages of position papers. Really a bunch of fat asses and wonkish wimps – Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz, Feith, Wurmser, Ledeen, Kristol, Bush, Rove…damned near the whole sorry lot. Talk about pussies with free passes. And, of course, glib ideolgically-driven notions of “freedom” that have little or nothing to do with the blood, sweat and tears of real people and real history and everything to do with their deep belief in the absolute necessity – even virtue – of projecting American power as the anchor of the Middle East. Personally chickenshit, politically crazy. Hubris is too elegant of a concept to apply to these punks.
July 1st, 2006 at 9:44 am
How can seemingly smart people reach such stupid conclusions?
I’m trying to understand you people, even though I’m rational enough not to agree with you. http://www.scottberkun.com/essays/essay40.htm
July 1st, 2006 at 10:50 am
Actually that essay is (modestly) interesting as an exercise in common sense…and applies to the group I mentioned regarding the war in Iraq – both their rationale and plan for prosecution – as a textbook case.
July 1st, 2006 at 10:53 am
“I thought he was voted in by the Iraqis.” Not really accurate – he was chosen by political barter, haggling and pressure from the U.S. ambassador – but you know what I mean.
July 1st, 2006 at 11:01 am
Woody, I’m going to give you something to think about that perhaps you can actually understand. When a “conservative” administratin commits nearly the entirety of our mobile ground forces and reserves to a war – supposedly in response to a direct attack on the United States – and they can’t get Tom Clancy, Pat Buchanan or Merle Haggard on board, I would think it’s an indication that there’s something amiss.
July 1st, 2006 at 11:30 am
reg, when you and Pat Buchanan agree on something, then something else is amiss or those Palm Beach punched ballots really were meant for Buchanan.
July 1st, 2006 at 11:32 am
Twenty minutes before launch. Watch it here: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
July 1st, 2006 at 11:57 am
A sharp and savvy guy like you Reg had to know I have had a problem keeping my sanity for some time now. Sometimes I do better than others. Why you choose to out me now, I just don’t know. But it was personally hurtful.
If it was because it looked like I may be getting dangerous to myself, then you’re forgiven. It’s Woody’s god who made me the way I am then put me into an insane world with very few clues and no help.
I’m feeling better now that I have finished my treat for the weekend. A no-holds-barred, guiltless I-have-earned-it huge fried-in-bacon-fat double eggs, double biscuits, double beans, double gravy and double biscuits topped off with an extra large glass of buttermilk. And I did it all by myself.
Hope this southern boy’s(when I was a boy) idea of the ideal breakfast doesn’t create another debate of it’s own here.
July 1st, 2006 at 12:11 pm
The insanity starts btw, when you begin to wonder if the one you’re told has created you, with a plan in mind, didn’t have any clues to give….or a plan.
Shades of the Iraqi War.
July 1st, 2006 at 1:23 pm
reg, before you can analyze another’s rationale for going into and staying in a war, you have to agree upon their reasons, for which yours are not the same as I understood the real ones to be.
Think back over twelve years of Hussein ignoring the peace agreements from the first Gulf War, ignoring U.N. resolutions, buying off foreign officials to overcome sanctions, having used WMD on your own people and having them in stock (he had them), refusing inspections, and cooperating with terrorists (he did.) Those reasons go far beyond yours of a “direct attack on the U.S,” which is wording that I haven’t seen from the administration.
Also, this matter goes beyond accepted reasons, as many on the left actually acknowledged them as legitimate. It goes to patience. How long do you give a dictator to comply? One year, five years, twelve years? Bush saw no end to delays (which it turned out, in large part, to be caused by those “police” who were being bribed.)
There’s a time to put up or shut up. The U.N. kept talking and wouldn’t back up what it said. So, Bush ran out of patience, made his intentions clear, and gave several months for compliance; but, Hussein and the U.N. kept stalling. So, Bush made good on his word while the U.N. didn’t.
Now, we need to judge the results when the job is over, and that may be quite some while after our troops are gone.
—–
Jim Russell, no grits covered in butter?
July 1st, 2006 at 2:28 pm
As we approach the fourth, we might take a moment to reflect on the extent to which Ronald Reagan was right. There are indeed people who “blame America first.” They don’t get elected to office, serve in posistions of power in the “left” politcal party, or get major market radio shows. There is as strain in the Academic left that, if not “Blame America Firsters” are, at least sometimes, Blame America Unfairsters”.
Then there are the real problems, the “Blame America Nevers.” These people are Presidents, Senators, and congressmen in the Republican party. They host stupid radio shows, and sell idioic books to insecure Americans who are desperate for a bunking up. The strong strain of Dale Carnegie in the Limbaugh pitch is seldom remarked upon, though it is fused with an equal strain of little guy self pity. You are with us; or you are part of the rich wise guys who are out to get us. O’Reilly’s version: “Who looks out for you?”
So when we invade a toothless country, resulting in amazing expedatures and loss of life (though, you can be sure, SOMEBODY is making a buck in all this), we get silly equasions like the one Woody offers in an attempt to excuse our murderous blunders. Eventually we will have to throw in the towel, those who are dying now are just good lives being thrown after those already wasted.
All because of the ignorant, vain, hapless blame America Nevers. To paraphrase what Phillip Marlowe said about the cops, “nobody’s figured out a way to cut and run from them.”
July 1st, 2006 at 2:42 pm
“having them in stock (he had them), refusing inspections”
Two of your “facts” which are patently false (unless you include decaying chemical shells from the first Gulf War as “WMD” that threatened our national security.) The inspectors were in there doing their work (thanks to Bush) until Bush pulled them back out and the Delfer Report was very clear on the WMD question, including old shells, despite Ricky Santorum’s cracked pottery. If the assholes in charge of this war had been serious about Saddam’s weapons threatening Americans, they would have secured the weapons dumps that the insurgents looted AFTER the invasion and which are being used against our troops.
Somebody else is going to have to take you up on your addled construct of a “casus belli” in the bigger picture. It’s like arguing with a Ken Mehlman doll. Needless to say, most Americans don’t buy your crap and now recognize that Bush dragged us into a full-scale war – no end in sight – without clear national security issues at stake. If we went to war because people violate UN resolutions, we’d have invaded Israel long ago. Coming from the far-right, that “sanctity of UN resolutions” argument is really hilarious and, of course, infinitely hypocritical.
July 1st, 2006 at 2:44 pm
“But it was personally hurtful.”
Not intended.
July 1st, 2006 at 2:46 pm
The U.N. kept talking and wouldn’t back up what it said. So, Bush ran out of patience, made his intentions clear, and gave several months for compliance; but, Hussein and the U.N. kept stalling. So, Bush made good on his word while the U.N. didn’t.
You’re still butt stupid.
Saddam agreed to let the inspectors in in December. Bush invaded in March. Three months is not several. Shit it’s barely a few.
July 1st, 2006 at 4:05 pm
Did anyone see Rep Curt Weldon’s “WMDs were found” hearings on CSPAN. Best comedy show in a long time. When David Kay, the chief weapon’s searcher for the Bush crime family reported that the wea;pons were old and less dangerous than what was found under most sinks Weldon exploded – “You don’t know what you’re talking about!”
Great Fun!
July 2nd, 2006 at 9:56 am
“As we approach the fourth, we might take a moment to reflect….”
I would attempt to help you with your insanity Wall, but after a more sane afterthought I realized you are probably so far gone it would be like talking to……well, a wall.
I can only hope this gives you something to reflect on. Start by reading you own comment on how you plan to remember America on its Birthday.
BTW, you left out the “Blame America always” category. Pathetic.
July 12th, 2006 at 4:15 pm
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