Inside the Obama-Guns-God-Bitterness Storm [Updated]
***Update***The latest updates on this story come from Jay Rosen, from The New York Times and The Los Angeles Times.
As the editorial coordinator of HuffPost’s OffTheBus project, I had the privilege and responsibility of doing the final edit and
ultimately approving for publication the web story Friday that has set off a firestorm over Barack Obama’s remarks about a “bitter” attitude that sometimes plagues economically-pressed small towns. Specifically those in Pennsylvania.
Writer Mayhill Fowler’s story -- now with more than 2500 5,000 comments on it -- was picked up by The New York Times, The Los Angeles Times, The Washington Post, CNN.com, the Associated Press, Fox News, Reuters, Politico, the Lou Dobbs Show, Hardball, Olbermann’s Countdown, The Atlantic.com, The DailyKos, TalkingPointsMemo and myriad other outlets.
McCain and Clinton quickly jumped into the fray. And Obama released a video to respond to the controversy (posted below).
Here’s the background: Last Sunday, citizen journalist Mayhill Fowler – true superstar at OffTheBus and a declared Obama supporter-- was present at an Obama fund raiser in San Francisco during which the candidate got a little loose lipped with the crowd while her tape recorder was running. On Monday she filed an initial story – which also got a lot of attention—on his declarations that he doesn’t need a hawk to bolster him as VP.
Working from the same material, Mayhill then filed a second story early this morning – the one that has exploded. (You can also hear the audio of Obama’s speech here). Basically, Obama tried explaining to his tony crowd of San Fran funders why some folks in the Pennsylvania hinterlands might have, um, some cultural leanings that depart from those of the good people of the Sunset district or Marin County. Here’s what he said:
You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them...And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.
And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
When the piece came across my desk for editing Friday morning, I honestly could not anticipate what sort of storm Obama's musings would touch off. I knew exactly what Obama was straining to say and while I recognized he did so in a rather clumsy fashion, I didn’t think they would elicit such intense reaction (Shows you what I know).
I think of all the ink spilled on the subject in the last 18 hours or so, Marc Ambinder of The Atlantic.com does one of the better jobs of unpacking the significance of the gaffe.
We're dealing tonight with a classic Kinseyian "gaffe," where a candidate says what he means and then is forced to account for it. Let's separate, for the moment, the politics of Obama's words from the argument he is making. In Obama's version, working class voters in the Midwest have been inured to promises of economic redress because both Democrats and Republicans promise to help and never do; since government is a source of distress in their lives, they organize their politics around more stable institutions, like churches or cultural practices, like hunting. The outlet for their economic duress is in lashing out, in giving voice to their grievances; In Obama's formulation, Republicans are especially eager and willing to exploit cultural trigger points.
Ambinder points out that this isn’t exactly an earth-shaking rumination and that even John McCain has made similar observations. But there’s a still a problem here for Obama.
[T]he perilous words for Obama are "bitter," "cling to," "guns" and "religion." Those disinclined to put themselves in Obama's head will read the sentences and see Obama dismissing both religion and American gun culture the opiates of the masses. Voters may believe that one's position on cultural issues is a better reflection of their inner values than one's position on economics.
But the politics are unquestionably dangerous for a candidate whose appeal depends on him transcending traditional political adjectives like "liberal" or "elite."
Despite his working class upbringing, Obama's hyperconfidence sometimes translates as holier-than-thou, elitist, aristocratic, Dukakis-esque. Republicans know that these attributes aren't popular in middle America, so they will use every opportunity to remind independents and moderates about them.
Obama's professorial disquisition at a fundraiser reinforces in real time these stereotypes. And the complexity of his subject matter does not lend itself to an easy response.
One bright spot for Obama: his campaign's response to the story was quick and strong.
Here's the video from Obama.
I want to say a few words about the author of the piece, Mayhill Fowler. A highly-educated, sophisticated intellectual as well as an ardent Obama supporter, she has become a mainstay of OffTheBus. She employs a highly-personalized, reflective narrative style to her unconventional reporting – an approach that would be, indeed, non-grata, within the official campaign reporting bubble. It violates almost all of the conventions of traditional reporting (though not its ethical code) and that's what makes it all so damn interesting.
I, personally, would have written her piece much differently than the way she chose. It would have been less about me and more about Obama. But Mayhill has developed quite a loyal and appreciative audience and with her most recent work demonstrates that citizen journalism can do many, many things still inaccessible to the MSM. It’s also quite a bit of fun to see how a report like hers can actually set the agenda for the entire national press. I've also been impressed with the way that Mayhill has struggled with her own conscience, her own values and as well her hopes and desires. She was and remains an Obama supporter. And it wasn't easy for her to write a piece that she knew, while truthful and accurate, would nevertheless be used by his political opponents. Not an easy task, I assure you.
Here’s just some of the links to and about Mayhill’s story.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/04/barack-obama-lu.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1116676020080412?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/12/us/politics/12campaign.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/11/AR2008041103965.html?hpid=topnews
http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/04/obamas_gaffe_some_perspective.php
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/11/211733/951/248/494024
http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5107
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/188566.php
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Obama_on_smalltown_PA_Clinging_religion_guns_xenophobia.html
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/04/obama_on_guns_and_religion_in.php
http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/04/i-was-born-in-a.html
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/jpodhoretz/3325
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/04/obama-reaches-out-to-bitter-religious.html
http://www.slate.com/id/2188487/
http://instapundit.com/archives2/017761.php
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/04/11/snob-ama-disses-pro-gun-religious-anti-illegal-immigration-activists-in-penn/
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/04/11/obama-on-small-town-voters-bitter-xenophobic-religious/
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/04/this_is_what_he_thinks.asp
http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/04/small_town_stew.html
http://www.parapundit.com/archives/005130.html
http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/04/11/obama-small-town-voters-just-a-bunch-of-bitter-immigrant-haters/
http://hayhurstforamerica.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/obama-small-town-usa-clinging-to-religion-guns-and-xenophobia/
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/04/11/obama-draws-fire-for-comments-on-small-town-america/
April 12th, 2008 at 1:17 am
perhaps if Obama hadn’t made those comments in Indiana at that Town meeting in Terre Haute we would have seen a cklassic example of what Michael Kinsley and HowardDean called a DC “Gaffe” - telling a politically unpalatable truth.
I noted that the folks in CNN’s “Situation Room” were sympathetic to Obama and scornful of the remarks of McCain and Clinton. Andthat was before Obama’s remarks in TH cleared, Sure FOX will jump. Dogs will bite. What I want to see though is how people in those Pennsylvania towns react. I suspect that they’re not the boobs that “Bomb-bomb” and Hil think they are.
April 12th, 2008 at 4:41 am
Good points from rlo. Starting with the Rev Wright episode, Obama has demonstrated repeatedly that speaking his mind trumps Clinton’s cynical bullshit. The attacks on him are out of desperation, and incredibly cynical coming from someone like Clinton who actually agrees with everything he said.
April 12th, 2008 at 4:50 am
I’m West Coast, straight up, so maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about here. My sole connection to small town Pennsylvania was a girlfriend I had back in college, who grew up there in the 70s as the state’s industrial base was draining away. She talked about it some.
From this admittedly slim grasp of what life is like there for young people, let me hazard a guess: this “DC gaffe” of Obama’s got heard by some Pennsylvians most Dem pols usually don’t bother to think about very much. Somewhere right now in some generic small town in Pennsylvania, a 22-year-old good-for-nothing has just poured out his bong water, rooted around in his closet for a clean shirt, and headed downtown to see if there’s an Obama campaign office yet. You probably have a quarter million cases like his around the state. Maybe half of them just turned into Obama votes, and maybe one in twenty is now a budding Obama activist. (As for the voters Obama alienated, most of them were probably never going to vote for him anyway.)
All the talk about Obama’s “elitism” and “snobbery” supposedly revealed by this recent comment would make you think that gun-totin’, bible-thumpin’ small town people in Pennsylvania were at the bottom of the heap in America. Nope. There are people UNDERNEATH that layer of the social heap, born into it, but hating it with every nerve in their bodies; they’d love to get out from under it somehow. I know. I lived for years with one escapee.
April 12th, 2008 at 5:05 am
“Escapee.”
Har!
April 12th, 2008 at 6:31 am
Bob - the fact that you laugh at the word “escapee” shows that - unlike “normal Americans” - you know nothing about the demographics of those towns of which Obama spoke. Their populations are significantly older than average because kids do, in fact, tend to “escape” due to lack of opportunities.
I’m sure many self-annointed “regular guys” in the elite media - like Bill O’Reilly - will chew on this for the benefit of their ratings, but I was surprised to see this rather remarkably honest exchange over at CNN under the nose of the generally clueless Wolf Blitzer:
http://tinyurl.com/56ah3n
April 12th, 2008 at 6:59 am
MB - I have to say that in the CNN clip I linked, when Blitzer plays the Clinton response clip the phoniness, down to the pauses, oozes out of her.
I don’t think this will hurt Obama at all. Rather than run from his off-the-cuff remarks to an “insider” audience, he’ll use it as an opportunity to address the issues raised. McCain, Hillary and much of the press will come off looking arrogant and condescending - Hillary in fact sounds like somebody leading one of those self-help sessions Al Franken used to parody - and Obama will be seen as the guy who talks striaght about issues in a way that doesn’t assume the people listening to him are stupid. If we’re looking for a “regular guy” among the candidates, who do you think could actually sit in a sports bar with a bunch of guys and find lots of common ground for non-political conversation ? Who would more likely charm the waitress in an out-of-the-way diner with small talk about his wife and daughters if he happened not to be there as candidate for President ? Or go to the Bible study class in any evangelical church in America and keep up with the textual references, toss in a couple of his own and ask a few thoughtful questions ? McCain The Panderer, in particular, would be so out of his “elite” element it in that last scenario it would be laughable. None this, of course, is any sort of criteria for choosing a president, but it proves what a crock the notion that Obama doesn’t play well with “normal Americans” or “regular guys” happens to be. And of course it’s coming from some of the most out-of-touch elites in America - the Clinton and McCain campaigns, and pundits like the he-man warriors at the Weekly Standard, the tough-as-nails crowd at NRO, and average Joes like Hannity and O’Reilly over at Murdoch’s small-town American global media empire. What a laugh.
Bring it on…
April 12th, 2008 at 7:24 am
Meanwhile, I am told that the event where Obama made those recorded — surprise, Barack! — was a private fundraiser.
Off the record.
Closed to the press.
In my ever so slight experience with politicians, they tend to speak a little differently under those ground rules.
April 12th, 2008 at 7:28 am
As a footnote to this nonsense, I saw an MSNBC clip where Chris Matthews - somewhat jokiingly, but still rather remarkably - spent considerable time and at least one question of his guest, Bob Casey - making a big deal out of the fact that Obama asked for orange juice instead of coffee at a diner in Indiana. He and some other clown acted like it was an affront to the waiter. What kind of childish mentality is on display here among our “journalists” ? As for this alleged Obama “gaffe” getting aired as some sort of major story on Lou Dobbs, that’s rich. There’s nobody who panders more to precisely the feelings Obama referenced and does it from a more elite, out-of-touch phony perch. Dobbs, a run-of-the-mill flak for stock-pickers, obviously decided that exploiting anger over fairly drastic transformatioins of the labor market would put him a rung up on the media food chain. This guy has a track record of putting bogus information out there when he’s not devaluing his audience with gross oversimplification and hysteria. It’s as much of an insult to a group of people is to pander to them - or one’s stereotypical image of them - as it is to dismiss them outright. All politicians pander - including Obama - but McCain and Hillary and too many journalists manage to do it at the highest levels of dishonesty and hypocrisy.
April 12th, 2008 at 7:29 am
Off the record? Okay. I’ll say that rural Pennsylvanians are pathetic and infantile, but never to their faces. Might take it the wrong way, you know.
I’m growing confidant that Barry or Michelle can be counted on to deliver up one or two of the charmers every week all the way through October.
April 12th, 2008 at 7:34 am
Does Woody really live in Pennsylvania ?
April 12th, 2008 at 8:40 am
Bob, I think you’re going to find that there are plenty of highly questionable remarks. And if you think that unguarded comments aren’t made all the time in both parties when the press isn’t around, you are sadly mistaken.
They even happen in public, sometimes.
For example, I think John McCain does know the difference between Shia and Sunni, which I cut him slack on the issue.
But he does keep misspeaking on that, doesn’t he?
April 12th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Incidentally, the reason why I am told that about the San Francisco fundraiser in question is because I inquired with the Obama campaign about attending it and was told that it was private, off-the-record, and closed to the press.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:55 am
Bill: You Obama people are going to have decide whether the remarks were “highly questionable” or a deep sociological insight.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Obama is trying to run out the clock on Clinton rather than win the game. He’s fumbling the ball, making mistakes, playing passively, and losing ground with each minute.
Running out the clock works well with large leads and only a couple of minutes left–not in this situation. Eventually, people will start doubting his ability to win the election, and guess who will still be in the wings fighting for the nomination.
You don’t believe me, but Obama will be discredited before the Democratic Convention and Hillary will sneak in. She has more balls than does Obama to fight.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:02 am
“I think John McCain does know the difference between Shia and Sunni”
I don’t think there’s any evidence that John McCain has a clue what’s going on in Iraq at any level…although he’s got a bit more information to deal with than he did in 2002 when he was inspired to help get this war off the ground. A sane person might express some regrets after this remarkable parade of failures at every level for five years, but not “The Maverick.” None of these guys had - or have - a clue regarding the Middle East in general, much less Iraq which they’ve supposedly been focused on “laser-like” since at least 2002. The day an American President has as much influence and credibility among the Iraqi factions as Ahmadinejad - without spending trillions or straining their military in the process - I’ll believe that “we” might be “winning.” Til that improbable outcome, I’ll not cut any slack for these morons.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:05 am
Also, I like it when Obama says “Pawkeestawn.”
April 12th, 2008 at 9:07 am
I also look forward to McCain handing us a couple of these gaffes a month. Too bad his air-head, re-habbed heiress wife is too much a bundle of damaged goods to take a more aggressive role in his campaign like Michelle or we’d be getting great stuff nearly every day. Wish Mayhill had been there “off-the-record” when John called her a “cunt” in front of his staffers.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Luke Skywalker Endorses Barack Obama
That won’t be enough to stop the forces of evil and Darth Hillary.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:11 am
Actually, I was a member of Veterans for McCain in 2000, taking a break from journalism that year.
># bob williams Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 8:55 am
Bill: You Obama people are going to have decide whether the remarks were “highly questionable” or a deep sociological insight.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:13 am
3 posts by dim old sap reg before 7:30 AM on a Saturday.
Talk about living under a heap.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:20 am
There’s no question that John McCain, like most any politician in 8 years, has been thru some twists and turns since 2000.
That said, I’m not interested in the usual partisan back and forthing.
As you can tell, as I could get into it with a right-winger on Obama and a left-winger on McCain — all on the same thread!
McCain is a very knowledgeable guy. Whether he is correct in his assessments — or pronouncements, actually, since they are not necessarily one and the same — is another matter.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Oddly, that is how they pronounce it in Pakistan.
But what do the Paks know about their country?
># bob williams Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 9:05 am
Also, I like it when Obama says “Pawkeestawn.”
April 12th, 2008 at 9:35 am
How do Paks pronounce “Pakistan? Who knows? Depends on what language they speak, I suppose.
How does Obama, an American pronounce “Pakistan?”
Oddly.
He says “Pawkeestawn.”
April 12th, 2008 at 9:37 am
Bill Bradley brings up some good points. As to the event in question: It was indeed a fundraiser to which the press was not invited. Or if you wish, it was closed to press. Therefore it wasnt on or off the record. Off the record is when journos consenusally agree to witness or hear something on the condition they not report it.
Mayhill, who has given money to Barack, was invited to come to the event by one of the communication staff. They new her in her capacity as a writer for OffTheBus and knew it was quite likely she would write something out of this event.
Indeed, she recorded the event as she sat next to campaign staff.
Let it also be noted that there were approx 100 videocams whirring away inside the room as Barack spoke.
I give this detail for full clarification. Most if not all press was kept out of the room but Mayhill was invited in. She was under no obligation not to report. Obama was indeed more loose lipped than usual. He should be more careful in his choice of words when he is staring into so many video cams, no matter who is holding them.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Mayhill is catching all kinds of abuse in the comments at Huffpo. She has betrayed The Revolution, it seems.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:42 am
I’m merely quoting from what I was told when I was denied access to the San Francisco fundraiser as a member of the press.
“Private, off the record, closed to the press.”
I was also told that if I attended it for color and background purposes, it would upset the press who might get wind of it.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:43 am
Yes, whatever language those wogs speak …
># bob williams Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 9:35 am
How do Paks pronounce “Pakistan? Who knows? Depends on what language they speak, I suppose.
How does Obama, an American pronounce “Pakistan?”
Oddly.
He says “Pawkeestawn.”
April 12th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Bill, right. Not arguing with you. Clearly the campaign didnt want press at the fundraiser. They made a mistake in inviting Mayhill. Obama made a mistake in speaking so unguardely in front of videocams. Anyone paying a few hundred bucks could get in.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:46 am
“McCain is a very knowledgeable guy.”
Here’s a clip that makes the notion that McCain is “knowledgable” at the Presidential level laughable, leaving his natterings about Iraq off the table: “At a recent meeting with the Wall Street Journal editorial board, Republican presidential candidate John McCain admitted he ‘doesn’t really understand economics’ and then pointed to his adviser and former Senate colleague, Phil Gramm - whom he had brought with him to the meeting - as the expert he turns to on the subject…”
This would be forgiveable if he didn’t point to Old Econ Professor Phil Gramm as his “expert.” Gramm, who lived in the pocket of the financial and banking lobbies, ranted endlessly against government spending but was one of the most relentless porkers in Congress, trolling dollars for his district. Typical “Maverick” stuff for McCain to pair up with this worthless old coot.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Bill:
You shouldn’t call people in Pakistan “wogs.” It’s racist.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:50 am
I’m merely paraphrasing your stuff, Bob.
“Who knows what language they speak in Paw-kee-stahn.”
Bye bye.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:51 am
And having engaged, for the last time, with the right-wing hyperpartisan of the morning, now to engage with the left-wing hyperpartisan.
McCain is very knowledgeable. Period. Maybe a little too candid. Like, say, Barack Obama, who is also very knowledgeable.
># reg Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 9:46 am
“McCain is a very knowledgeable guy.”
Here’s a clip that makes the notion that McCain is “knowledgable” at the Presidential level laughable, leaving his natterings about Iraq off the table: “At a recent meeting with the Wall Street Journal editorial board, Republican presidential candidate John McCain admitted he ‘doesn’t really understand economics’ and then pointed to his adviser and former Senate colleague, Phil Gramm - whom he had brought with him to the meeting - as the expert he turns to on the subject…”
This would be forgiveable if he didn’t point to Old Econ Professor Phil Gramm as his “expert.” Gramm, who lived in the pocket of the financial and banking lobbies, ranted endlessly against government spending but was one of the most relentless porkers in Congress, trolling dollars for his district. Typical “Maverick” stuff for McCain to pair up with this worthless old coot.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:53 am
No Bill. You are not paraphrasing anything. You are calling people in Pakistan “wogs”, a word I have never used until today.
Why are you referring to Pakistanis with a racist term, Bill?
April 12th, 2008 at 9:56 am
I understand she was there as an Obama supporter.
Clearly, Obama had no expectation that he was going to be quoted in the press as it was a private event.
We’ve talked about this very gray area of “citizen journalism” before.
># Marc Cooper Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Bill, right. Not arguing with you. Clearly the campaign didnt want press at the fundraiser. They made a mistake in inviting Mayhill. Obama made a mistake in speaking so unguardely in front of videocams. Anyone paying a few hundred bucks could get in.
# reg
April 12th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Troll elsewhere.
># bob williams Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 9:53 am
No Bill. You are not paraphrasing anything. You are calling people in Pakistan “wogs”, a word I have never used until today.
Why are you referring to Pakistanis with a racist term, Bill?
April 12th, 2008 at 10:00 am
Bill, I have to say that I too “could get into it with a left-winger or a right-winger all on the same thread” and your “I don’t want to get into partisan back-and-forthing” is belied by the fact that you’ve obviously been an active McCain supporter. Your contention that he must know the difference between the Iraqi factions, given his serial misstatements of pretty basic stuff regarding the role of these different groups in what is admittedly a clusterfuck, is evidence of the kind of credulity one gets from, say, Bill Clinton in defending Hillary’s remarks about her sniper-fire experience. There’s nothing wrong with your having these opinons, but it doesn’t make you particularly high and mighty as a “high Broderist” clinging to some mythical “center” or somehow above “partisan politics.” In fact, I feel better able to contextualize your reporting knowing that you have worked actively for John McCain in the past.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Bill.. if so then Obama was naive, There were 400-600 people in that crowd and he spoke as the videocam lights were on. There were no NDA’s signed by the crowd. Howard Wolfson could have bought a ticket and brought his camera and posted the video to youtube. In fact, there are snippets of the speech shot by funders on youtube– we are currently collecting them.
There is no gray area here. Ive been in oodles of closed press events where the organizers didnt want me in and I was still able to get a story. That’s not gray journalism — that’s good journalism/
What’s gray is when a reporter engages in any level of deceit to get the story or violates a ground rule to which he or she promised to comply. Not the case with our reporter, thanks very much. She was known to the campaign as an OffTheBus reporter and they let her in as such and she worked the room as such and she recorded the evnt in the open as she sat with campaign staff… they probably let her in because they expected her to write unblemished pro-Obama copy. Or they dont fully understand implications of internet age information.
She herself was quite conflicted about writing something potentially harmful to Obama. But she correctly decided that the truth shall set ya free.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Well, Reg, I’ve obviously been an active Democrat, too, having been a senior advisor to Gary Hart and the Democratic Party. So your comment is not exactly, shall we say, well-founded.
But it does remind me of how blogging is like talk radio.
I was merely letting your right-wing counterpart know that his supposition that I’m an Obama activist is wrong.
Let’s say I have a catholic view of politics, and with knowledge of these candidates, am aware that they are knowledgeable people. Whether they are right is another matter.
But this hyperpartisan tendency to deny any legitimacy whatsoever to ideological opponents is one of the worst things going in American politics.
As Barack Obama agrees, mind you.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Re 9:51 comment.
McCain may be knowledgeable about many things, as one of his experience would clearly be, but he’s NOT been knowledgable about the realities of the Iraqi insurgencies and the different factions. He WAS relatively knowlegable about the troop levels compared to the rest of the neo-con crowd - except I’m not knowledgable AT ALL about military matters and I was dead certain much earlier than McCain expressed any public misgivings that Rummie, et. al. had screwed up big time. This didn’t take much prescience, because I don’t give myself much credit for any insight other than following press accounts of the war more closely than the average news consumer. In fact, I can’t think of a single major issue on which McCain has shown himself to demonstrate a deep grasp of the complexities over time that suggest he’s “presidential.” He’s also shown himself to be capable of pandering to elements of a partisan base that he clearly despises and shares little affinity with at levels that only Mitt Romney was able to surpass in this election cycle.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:18 am
Marc, they regarded her as a pro-Obama blogger. Not as a journalist or reporter or columnist per se.
Bloggers are viewed as activists, not journalists.
It’s why some campaigns have blogger conference calls and press conference calls.
The blogger calls are to pump up the base. The press calls are to do spin and answer arguably tough questions.
She was admitted to the private San Francisco fundraiser as an activist blogger and then functioned as a journalist.
This is the gray area I’m talking about with regard to citizen journalism.
>Marc Cooper Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 10:05 am
What’s gray is when a reporter engages in any level of deceit to get the story or violates a ground rule to which he or she promised to comply. Not the case with our reporter, thanks very much. She was known to the campaign as an OffTheBus reporter and they let her in as such and she worked the room as such and she recorded the evnt in the open as she sat with campaign staff… they probably let her in because they expected her to write unblemished pro-Obama copy. Or they dont fully understand implications of internet age information.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:21 am
I could care less that you’ve crossed from Gary Hart to John McCain over a span of years, except to note that if you think that you can embrace both of them with some kind of intellectual coherence, you’ve got some ’splainin to do. I don’t know what “catholic” means in that context, unless it means you’ve got Jesuitical rhetorical skills. I’m far from hyper-partisan. What I am is hyper-common sense. Unfortunately Phil Gramm’s economics, Rod Parsely’s “spirituality” and John McCains twists and turns to rationalize “winning” in Iraq don’t make a damned bit of sense. They’re ideological, emotional and vainglorious claptrap of the highest order. I used to have respect for McCain. Now, not so much.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:25 am
Bill as I said not gonna argue with you, You want to call her a blogger not a journalist, that’s cool. Whatever she is, she was admitted in with the expectation that what she wrote could become public — and it did. And then lot of other journalists and blogger and blogger/journalists joined in.
I also think your distinction between journalist and blogger is a bit superceded by reality. Many would call you a blogger though you possess and exercise skills of an excellent journalist. These distinctions clearly mean less and less when a figure like Mayhill can lead the agenda today of the national press. Blogger shmogger.
Where I do agree with you is the obvious gray area in the heads of the Obama staff. if they dont want something getting out of that meeting then they have to proactively control who gets in — not who they keep out. If Joe Shmo Obama Supporter had loved O’s remarks and posted his video of the event to Youtube (as some did)– and that becomes central to a media frenzy, what do you do about that?
Bottom line: Obama campaign has to get smarter about web communication or better keep its candidate on message.
Disclosure: I am a contributor to Obama campaign.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Well, Reg, it’s much complex than that. And 2008 is not 2000.
But if you on your hyperpartisan side want to imagine that I’m really for John McCain, and that other fellow on his hyperpartisan side wants to imagine that I’m really for Barack Obama, I’d say things are going quite well.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:45 am
Marc, the difference between activist bloggers and journalists is clear enough that campaigns have different conference calls. For bloggers and journalists.
I consider myself a journalist who uses new media, as you know. And that is how I’m generally viewed. Which is why the Obama campaign wouldn’t let me into the fundraiser, though it would be hard to say that he gets bad coverage from me.
One time a campaign screwed up and had me on a blogger conference call. And I proceeded to accurately quote Rudy Giuliani’s tortured answer to my question about the distinction between torture and enhanced interrogation.
The Obama campaign viewed your person as an activist blogger, an Obama supporter, a financial contributor, not as a reporter.
I do agree with you that they made a mistake in admitting her — I wouldn’t have — and in letting Obama proceed with the expectation that he was addressing a private, off-the-record, closed to the press fundraiser.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Why not let your readers know who you are “really for” so they can have “full disclosure” in assessing your journalism ? You’ve already said you’d give McCain “a pass” on his Iraq confusions.
If you want to discuss your concept of “hyperpartisanship” in some context other than a Broderist vaccuum of a mythical “center,” I’d be more than willing to discuss why I don’t think a vote for Obama - or most Democrats - is an expression of what’s negative in your connotation of “hyperpartisan”, while empowering the current crop of Republicans happens to be a move in the direction of purely “hyper-partisan” faith-based ideology, “special interests” and empowering elites. Pointing to Phil Gramm as your economics “expert” is a sign that you’re in deep partisan shit in a way that bringing Austin Goolsbee to the table as an advisor is evidence that you’re operating out of relatively “catholic” sensibilities.
Your knee-jerk equations - so familiar to those of us who aren’t particularly impressed with contemporary campaign journalism and punditry - don’t add up.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:55 am
bad grammer on the Gramm - Goolsbee point, but you know what I mean.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Well, Reg, odd as it may seem to you, I’m not “really for” anyone in this race.
And you are distorting my meaning in saying I give McCain a pass on Iraq.
I simply know that he does know the distinction between Shia and Sunni.
I think you wrote some other stuff there, too.
Have a nice day.
>reg Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Why not let your readers know who you are “really for” so they can have “full disclosure” in assessing your journalism ? You’ve already said you’d give McCain “a pass” on his Iraq confusions.
April 12th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Actually you’re distorting my meaning regarding your pass on McCain’s “Iraq confusions.” I have no idea what your overall critique of McCain’s record on the war might be. In any event, I doubt McCain knows the difference between Sunni and Shia in any meaningful sense that helps him understand the politics on the ground at the level necessary for a Commander in Chief. It’s certainly more of an unfounded assumption that he’s grounded knowledgeabley in the internal sectarianism of Irag and how it impacts potential outcomes than the notion that serial “misstatements” - including the clear assertion that al Qaeda is being trained in Iran - are evidence that John McCain’s comprehension of the depth and complexities of the Iraq mess is almost as much of a mess as Bush’s and Rumsfeld’s have been.
April 12th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Good lord, it’s Saturday. Amazing.
April 12th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
In all this discussion one aspect has been overlooked. What is so different in Obama’s observation that these are the people who are always betrayed and left behind by the pols - thus breeding a cynicism about politics - and John edwards’ populist message of the “two Americas” where one sings the praises of the “New Economy” and urges m”retraining” on those left behind and the “other America” that has been devastated by neo-liberal trade and economic policies.
There has been much talk of what Edwards would and who he’d endorse. Maybe Barack’s remarks will help him make up his mind.
April 12th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Bill I’ve pretty much given up arguing about McCain with you and I’m sure he knows a lot of things. But his continuing confusion about Shia and Sunni and Iranian support for which faction - which extended into the Senate Armed Services chamber last week - makes me wonder if this is all a clever ruse just what is he trying to say?
April 12th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
In addition, I believe that John McCain had some musings — in front of the press — while pushing his immigration bill about small town folks being anti-immigrant.
April 12th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
My point here today is very simple and obvious and made in passing because it is obvious. Which is why I have to keep repeating it, I suppose.
John McCain knows the difference between Shia and Sunni. To pretend he doesn’t is just hyperpartisan talk radio gas.
Just as it’s hyperpartisan talk radio gas to pretend that Barack Obama hates people in small Pennsylvania towns left behind by the new economy.
># richard locicero Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Bill I’ve pretty much given up arguing about McCain with you and I’m sure he knows a lot of things. But his continuing confusion about Shia and Sunni and Iranian support for which faction - which extended into the Senate Armed Services chamber last week - makes me wonder if this is all a clever ruse just what is he trying to say?
April 12th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Bill when Obama referred to his Granny as a “typical White Person” on a radio interview that was obviously a somewhat clumsy construction that ammounted to a misstatement. But if he used that locution over and over again I think the listener would be justified in thinking he was ashamed of the old dear.
When McCain continually fudges Shia and Sunni. When he ascribes Iranian Support to Sadr when Maliki is their boy (see for one source Juan Cole) and urges an undeined “victory” as his strategy for Iraq then I say he demonstrates a basic ignorance of the region and its tensions that belie any claims to knowlege and certainly makes it obvious that he should never get near the levers of power lest he complete the follies of the “Bushies” and really blow up the region.
Honestly, how you can see the statements from this man in any other light than profound ignorance mystifies me as much as it does Reg.
(and reg gets sensistive about those matters)
April 12th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
I called our dog by one of my kid’s name the other day and I’ve called one son by the other son’s name. I know the difference, as does McCain on his mistakes. That doesn’t qualify either of us for the crazy house or a retirement home.
April 12th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Sorry, Mr. Cooper, I don’t buy your argument. Fowler’s tactics are NOT journalism.
You should be ashamed of your involvement in this sleazy escapade.
Maybe the two of you can get hired at Fox News.
April 12th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Let me try to say something quite simple, in yet a different way. In order to facilitate understanding.
John McCain does understand the difference between Shia and Sunni.
I have primary source information on that.
Incidentally, on a separate matter, Iran provides support to more than one faction in Iraq. Not surprisingly.
April 12th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
If Mayhill Fowler is an Obama supporter then I am a die-heart GWB supporter. Something is stinky here. She told Dobbs that she was uncomfortable with his remarks so she started taping. She didn’t walk out, she started taping. Funny thing is, she taped the whole darn thing! She has been trying to for weeks to start a firestorm. She tried desperately with Pakistan comment which didn’t get much traction. She hit the jackpot big time with the framed, interpreted and translated “bitter” comments. Some Obama supporter (NOT!).
April 12th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
I suspect this created a considerable quandary at Huffington Post. The event was on Sunday; publication was on Friday.
Clearly the campaign’s policy was not to allow journalists into the fundraiser. Even journalists who may be on a friendly basis with the campaign.
Activists were a different question.
Now what do you do when you are a news/analytical organization that has a large activist component, and gets something that is golden like this bitter small towners quote?
The rough draft version, as it were, is highly newsworthy in the sensational world of Internet/cable/talk radio culture.
Which, incidentally, is something that with a very minor re-write, that I’m sure Obama would have performed in real time speaking in public, would be entirely unobjectionable.
These are questions that may come up frequently in the future.
Or, actually, they may not.
If I were running a campaign, I would ban activists/bloggers from my events.
And no, not everyone is their own network today, even with all our little devices and YouTube. It still takes access, resources, and credibility to get serious notice.
Remember, the famous George Allen “macacca” moment came when the guy was so idiotic as to say it directly to Jim Webb’s videographer.
April 12th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
… By ban activist bloggers from events, I mean private events, of course.
April 12th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Obama supporter?
from her previous pieces- and her donations to Fred Thompson…ya could fooled me.
I see NO support of Obama in anything she has written.
I just want to share what my working class family in Ohio said to me on the phone last night:
” He’s right. Should said that here in Ohio”
I am ready for someone who is brave enough to speak the truth…’
I do NOT want to vote for Hillary, who is now debasing herself to attack Obama, while her husband praises ( again!!) McCain.
Every important person in her campaign supports ( and gets money from!) Colombia..
hypocrisy of the first order.
Obama could have gone on the attack about Tuzla..especially when Bill lied MORE about it…but he did not.
Who is the better person?
It is quite obvious.
April 12th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Marc! You’re famous! DailyKos has a disry up about you!
April 12th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
The real issue in this “citizen” journalism experiment is framing. Perhaps Mayhill needs to get off the bus herself for a few days/weeks and take a break. She’s living inside this campaign bubble and becoming hyper-critical of language that isn’t inflammatory, and framing her coverage of the story through that lens. Obama should’ve provided a more complete grounding for the logic he used to develop his interpretation of small-town voters, however, the editorial choice to frame it as elitism is jumping the gun and feeding the GOP narrative in a way that is clearly meant to incense and motivate readers to comment on a blog post. It’s not responsible, it’s not journalism, and it’s directly related to the yellow, gotcha, grab-ass, tabloid coverage which the Corporate Media has embraced as a way to maintain market share.
Generating hits with misleading headlines, passing off op-eds as journalism, defending writers whose meta-narrative seeks to establish insider-outsider credentials is the lowest form of propoganda for dollars. Marc, that you delight in defending her as a journalist is obvious. I’d hope you’d focus your resources on something that is a real issue — like how well each of the candidates is doing at educating voters about issues like the nearly completed Bush plan to suspend the 4th amendment, the assault on our 1st amendment rights, the unregulated frontier of the credit markets, or any of the other myriad issues that in fact matte and impact our country and well-being, rather than on framing a semantic debate about Obama’s observations on the campaign trail.
Does anyone really believe Hillary and McCain (especially given their personal upbringings and current lifestyles) are NOT elitists?
April 12th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Isn’t framing the lefty blogosphere euphemism for spinning?
As you may be gathering, I’m not exactly unsympathetic to Obama on this matter.
The problem for Obama isn’t what is framed, it’s what is reported.
I can tell you that as soon as he saw this yesterday — to his amazement on several levels — my friend Steve Schmidt, McCain’s senior advisor, immediately seized on a few words from Obama’s rather lengthy musings about the problems of small town Pennsylvania and proceeded to pump it out through every organ of the Republican media machine.
You can put whatever sympathetic frame you want around what Obama said at his private fundraiser, Steve Schmidt is still going to zero in on a relative handful of words and set this whole deal off and running.
April 12th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Those who have not done so should take a break and read Joe Bageant’s “Deer Hunting With Jesus: Dispatches From America’s Class War.” Good background re the god/guns/bitterness complex.
April 12th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
“I called our dog by one of my kid’s name the other day and I’ve called one son by the other son’s name”
Yeah - common mistake, but do you know which one is allied with al Qaeda ?
April 12th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Back in the fall, I received an invitation to write for Off The Bus. The person I corresponded with suggested I read Mayhill Fowler as an introduction to how to write for this segment. I read some of her work and thought I would take a pass. Fowler is self-important, self-absorbed, and long-winded. I have given up trying to read her stuff, and so missed the Obama piece.
Her reporting is unconventional, as you say. A real journalist would respect the “off the record” rule and not make excuses for breaking it.
April 12th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
“Incidentally, on a separate matter, Iran provides support to more than one faction in Iraq. Not surprisingly.”
Uh, yeah. Duh…but are they training al Qaeda ? Just how many things do you have to have gotten wrong for five years running to be judged an incompetent observer ?
That John McCain has been consistently “knowledgeable” re: Iraq in any meaningful sense is, frankly, a ridiculous notion.
April 12th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
I certainly agree that any opponent would interpret Obama’s words to support his/her own candidacy. What I think isn’t as open to interpretation is the rules of engagement for journalists. I think this notion of “citizen” journalism is an irresponsible way to give what are essentially op-ed pieces the aura of credibility and authority. In addition to the massive editorial cuts taking place at every news outlet in the world the notion of “facts” and editorial management is being sullied. For instance, in Mayhill’s piece she interprets Obama’s comments. That’s op-ed. This mix of event reporting with on-the-spot personal impact commentary is op-ed.
Defending Mayhill as a journalist degrades the excellent job many journalists have done over the last 100 years covering wars, riots, civil unrest, famine, and rigged elections. It undermines the pillars of the 5th Estate and, what’s worse, it’s being done solely in the name of generating hits on a website. Foul. It doesn’t further the discussion in any meaningful way, it doesn’t seek to provide balance by pointing the reader to comparable or contrasting views of Obama’s opponents (this, btw, is what I meant by “framing” although I agree that progressives often use “framing” interchangeably with spin), the headline and the style of the “report” are op-ed.
I don’t generally read op-ed unless I respect the thinking of the writer. In Mayhill’s case, she’s myopic and that is highlighted in this post. Ironically, she sounds elitist with her poetic rendition of the view from the bus window, but, whatever. The reason a working journalist would’ve respected the campaign’s request not to “report” on the comments is longevity. We’ll see how this affects Mayhill’s access in the future.
April 12th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Reg, really now …
April 12th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I’m sorry. This is not believable. I have read Ms. Fowler’s posts, and I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that she is no “ardent Obama supporter”. Far from it—-in fact, all her pieces were critical, if not slandering, of Obama that they were unreadable to a real Obama supporter. I thought they were awful.
And I find it hard to believe that Mr. Cooper could be so naive as to believe this ruse, unless he is the most naive person in the world. I suspect something else.
How anyone could believe this tale of some sort of “accidental” recording at a private function—-whoops!—-just strains credibility. And then follow it up with a write-up intended to harm that candidate she so ardently supports. Puh—-lease.
April 12th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I don’t want to get between Marc and Bill other than to say that Marc is absolutely right on the journalistic principles involved, new media or no new media. Speaking as a journalism prof myself, as is Marc.
The one thing I might disagree somewhat with Marc about is this:
“Obama was indeed more loose lipped than usual. He should be more careful in his choice of words when he is staring into so many video cams, no matter who is holding them.”
In fact, I find it incredibly refreshing that Obama is not any more careful than he is. We might actually end up with a president who says what he thinks, wouldn’t that be a novelty.
btw I am playing around with a bit of blogging myself, Marc will perhaps forgive me for posting the link because it is no competition–indeed, don’t expect heavy political analysis from me (and I know a lot of people here don’t!)
http://michael-balter.blogspot.com/
April 12th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Elitism? My god. That’s perfectly rich coming from the Clinton’s who brought us NAFTA that wonderful tool of middle class destruction. It’s downright Orwellian the twists she puts on things. Isn’t this the pair that has enriched themsleves more or less at the public trough?
Ther there is her intolerable simpering attempt at authenticity and concern. It’s just all so phony and trumped up. This is an incredible non-story which reveals the total lack of core in both McCain and Clinton (no wonder they are such fast friends). Evidently their own positions are so impoverished that they are left to wrap themselves in in their empty, soaring patriotism. Please. This is the intellectual equivalent of their stupid responses: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Cbim_a9k8ag
April 12th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
[…] which Mayhill Fowler, an Obama donor who taped and wrote about Obama’s San Francisco remarks, has an interesting rumination on the affair, including the misgivings that wound up burying the comments in Fowler’s […]
April 12th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
That’s very amusing.
>Michael Balter Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I don’t want to get between Marc and Bill other than to say that Marc is absolutely right on the journalistic principles involved, new media or no new media. Speaking as a journalism prof myself, as is Marc.
April 12th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Actually …
Mayhill is an Obama supporter from Marin County who has hung around with the campaign for the last year, all the while blogging, and has contributed the maximum allowable amount of money to the Obama campaign.
She is an activist blogger and that is how she is viewed by the Obama campaign.
># Vicki Dow Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I’m sorry. This is not believable. I have read Ms. Fowler’s posts, and I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that she is no “ardent Obama supporter”. Far from it—-in fact, all her pieces were critical, if not slandering, of Obama that they were unreadable to a real Obama supporter. I thought they were awful.
And I find it hard to believe that Mr. Cooper could be so naive as to believe this ruse, unless he is the most naive person in the world. I suspect something else.
How anyone could believe this tale of some sort of “accidental” recording at a private function—-whoops!—-just strains credibility. And then follow it up with a write-up intended to harm that candidate she so ardently supports. Puh—-lease.
April 12th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
I hope that Ms Mayhill gets fired. She was told that it was closed to the press, and as far as I am concerned she was not honest as a journalist. It shows no integrity at all to abuse the previleges she was afforded by being invited to this event. I no longer hold any hope that Huffington has any integrity left. They have turned into Drudge and Politico. I do not think that Huffington is a progressive enough place to come to anymore as a yellow dog democrat.
April 12th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
If more video surfaces and shows these people laughing like hyenas as they do in the clip now surfacing while he makes some comments then this is really NOT GOOD for him. I also don’t understand how someone who grew up working class could be so elitist to begin with and how Hillary Clinton who is worth 100 mil can come off so down to earth…it’s a major problem for him…
April 12th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
We can assume you came over from the blog of Politico’s Ben Smith, a principal promoter of this story?
I frankly didn’t notice the “hyena-like laughing” in the innocuous video clip you are referring to.
April 12th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Mayhill is the elitist herself. She lives in the Oakland hills(avg home goes for $2 mil). How dare she criticize Obama and shame on her ass for writing such trash. Girlfriend better never venture out to East Oakland.
April 12th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Much as I hate Clinton, if some blogger had reported politically actionable bloopers from Hillary that knocked down her numbers a bit, Obama supporters would be gleeful. A little less hypocrisy, please, and a little more focus on the political issues.
April 12th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
OBama has been quiet about Hillary and her fairytale in Bosnia.
I’m sure that Mayhill will no longer be invited back on the Obama bus.
I’m telling you, girlfriend better watch her back in Oakland.
April 12th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
“Reg, really now …”
Are you serious in questioning that statement ? Not to put too fine a point on it, but does anyone remember when McCain claimed that Petraeus could tool around Baghdad in an unarmored Humvee ? Where did he come up with that one ?
April 12th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
You miss the point.
April 12th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
And the point is… ?
April 12th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
If Mayhill is an Obama supporter, I would hate to know his enemies. Defend this “reporting” all you want–if I were Obama, I wouldn’t allow her or your “bus” within 500 feet of any campaign event in the future.
April 12th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Mayhill Fowler = GOP plant?
She’s donated to Fred Thompson and Obama. Isn’t that strange? Few people could have as diametrically opposed politics as ultraconservative Thompson and center-left Obama.
http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=name&lname=fowler&fname=mayhill&search=Search
Where did Fowler come from? I note she has had many articles calling Obama “cocky”. Doesn’t seem like a fan. Now she goes scouring his speeches for redmeat for the FoxNews crowd. Since when did HuffPo become the Drudge Report?
April 12th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
I already told you.
>reg Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
And the point is… ?
April 12th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
“girlfriend better watch her back in Oakland.”
Do you routinely threaten people in that manner?
April 12th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
She’s an opinionated rich lady from Tennessee who went to an Ivy League school and gave a couple hundred bucks to Thompson (from …?) and maxed out to Obama.
If she were a plant, she wouldn’t have given a dime to Thompson. Naturally.
>James Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Mayhill Fowler = GOP plant?
She’s donated to Fred Thompson and Obama. Isn’t that strange? Few people could have as diametrically opposed politics as ultraconservative Thompson and center-left Obama.
http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=name&lname=fowler&fname=mayhill&search=Search
Where did Fowler come from? I note she has had many articles calling Obama “cocky”. Doesn’t seem like a fan. Now she goes scouring his speeches for redmeat for the FoxNews crowd. Since when did HuffPo become the Drudge Report?
April 12th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
A heads up to Obama folks. The delegate caucuses are tomorrow and, while we had a real victory over some of the assclowns who were running the state campaign and decided to purge candidates, the reversal and decision to include everyone who signed up as a candidate does open the door to the possibility of stealth Hillary candidates - pledged to Obama on the first ballot but intending to switch to Hillary thereafter - benefiting from an organized attempt to take advantage of the open process. Be sure to ask questions and unite around solid grassroots Obama supporters during the caucus process. Don’t take the process for granted and be sure to participate in your congressional district delegate caucuses. There is nothing that is beneath the Hillary gang IMHO, so it’s worth an hour or so to go and caucus with eyes open.
April 12th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Mayhill is a bit of an eccentric and dilettante IMHO, but I have to credit that she’s gone out and done the work. I encountered her early in the campaign and wasn’t impressed with the accuracy of her reporting of a small-scale event I participated in - even though she was exceedingly complimentary of me and my wife. (My wife deserves it, but Fowler failed to note that I can be an extremely verbose asshole, which tells you something about her observational skills.) I think her heart is in the Obama project, but not quite with the depth and persistence that her heart is in the Mayhill Fowler project. So she used some poor judgement but finally got what she’s been after in her quest.
April 12th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
“I already told you.”
I guess I’m the dumbest guy on the planet. Sorry, Mr Journalism Pro - ‘cuz your incredibly lucid comments on McCain have been absolutely awesome and convincing.
April 12th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
“I can be an extremely verbose asshole”
Really?
April 12th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
According to my wife…
April 12th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
I am pakistani, and the only candidate that pronounces “Pakistan” correctly is Obama…these other fools have no clue and McCain doesn’t know the difference between Shia and Sunni
April 12th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
I have to add in Fowler’s defense that I’m not sure that giving money to promote Fred Thompson could be construed as an act of allegiance to the GOP. More like sabotage. I wish Obama was facing Fred rather than McCain - who consistently gets the biggest pass from the journalistic tribes (not mentioning any names on this thread) and is clearly the strongest contender against the Dems. I think Obama can beat him, but he’d easily trounce Hillary.
April 12th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
You’re just trying to be irritating. But not succeeding. As you should have guessed hours ago.
>reg Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
“I already told you.”
I guess I’m the dumbest guy on the planet. Sorry, Mr Journalism Pro - ‘cuz your incredibly lucid comments on McCain have been absolutely awesome and convincing.
April 12th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Actually, Bill, you’re succeeding in being irritating in ways that I can’t even fathom.
April 12th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
AH:
How do you pronounce “Germany?”
April 12th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Can you see why some of us just want to be awoken when the campaign is over?
April 12th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Interesting commentary on the fundraising event and context of Obama’s comments from “Sandy’s Blog” at “mybarackobama.com” -
At the end of this small event Obama took four questions, one of which was from a couple of supporters going to Pennsylvania to work for the campaign. They wanted to know what kinds of questions they could expect to get from people in Pennsylvania. Obama began to answer their question by talking about the cultural and geographic diversity in Pennsylvania. He then proceeded to talk about what kind of attitudes and obstacles they might run into in the parts of the state that had been economically devastated by job loss. He talked about the fact that they would run into great cynicism about Washington or any promise of political change. He talked about the frustration and yes, bitterness, in some of these areas, where people had lost industry and jobs twenty five years before, jobs that never came back. He talked about the culture in these communities and what people had done to cope with economic hardship. This was an attempt both to tell these supporters what they might run up against and what were the challenges for the campaign in the industrial Midwest as a whole. Obama was both giving a speech to the supporters present at the event and a heart-to-heart to this couple that was ready to go door-to-door in Pennsylvania.
Imagine my surprise to see an article in the Huffington Post by Mayhill Fowler describing his answer as “a problematic judgment call in trying to explain working class culture to a much wealthier audience.” and his answer being like “explaining the yawning cultural gap that separates a Turkeyfoot from a Marin County.” I guess Ms. Fowler thought that, unlike herself, the other attendees had never gone outside the large house in Pacific Heights where the event was held. I grew up working class in Texas. I thought it ironic that Ms Fowler, was attempting to paint Obama as a condescending elitist, while at the same time she was stereotyping everybody at the event with her omniscient insight. (end clip)
And here’s a bit more insight into Fowler from an Offthebus post she did last August:
“Although I’ve lived in Oakland for thirty-two years, I had never been to East Oakland until Sunday when I turned my car onto the short residential street that dead-ends in Arroyo Park.”
I won’t belabor the geo-demography of Oakland. Her admission pretty much speaks for itself.
April 12th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Oh Jesus Christ - this just in from Annie Oakley…I mean Hillary:
“You know, my dad took me out behind the cottage that my grandfather built on a little lake called Lake Winola outside of Scranton and taught me how to shoot when I was a little girl.”
Obviously her dad anticipated the sniper fire she would eventually face as First Lady. I think it’s time for Marc C to make the prediction that her candidacy is all but over that “we can believe in.”
April 12th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Holy shit…it gets even better -
ABC News later reported that Clinton also visited a local bar in Crown Point, Indiana to share a shot of whiskey with the locals:
Clinton stood by the bar and took a shot of Crown Royal whiskey. She took one sip of the shot, then another small sip, then a few seconds later threw her head back and finished off the whole thing. (end clip)
She’d better take that bottle home with her because she’s gonna need it.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Crown Royal ? Crown Royal ? That in itself strains the imagination. Nobody in their right mind drinks Canadian Whiskey straight. She’d have looked less phony if she’d asked for it mixed with ginger ale.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
If Mayhill Fowler says she’s an Obama supporter, she’s a liar as well as a creep. She should go to hell and stay there.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
Look, I’ve been polite. You simply don’t get it.
You make a point which is demonstrably wrong. Then you keep blathering away about other stuff. You’ve been rude all day. I can see you want to keep posting at length about every tedious thing.
>reg Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Actually, Bill, you’re succeeding in being irritating in ways that I can’t even fathom.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
James “Mayhill Fowler = GOP plant?”
No. Mayhill Fowler = Initiate of the Inner Circle of the Esoteric Fraternal Order of Illuminated Zionist Freemasons? Absolutely.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
You don’t know?
>bob williams Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
AH:
How do you pronounce “Germany?”
April 12th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
If I’m demonstrably wrong, you sure as hell haven’t demonstrated it. You’re a pretty arrogant piece of work who assumes their assertions are golden.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
And I notice you’re still here…contributing to the tedium with your opaque bullshit.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
You want rude, Bill ? How about “I’ve come to the conclusion that you’re California’s version of Joe Klein.” It doesn’t get ruder than that.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
my friend Steve Schmidt, McCain’s senior advisor, immediately seized on a few words from Obama’s rather lengthy musings
Yuck. And that’s why most Americans find campaign season nauseating and dishonest.
Also, Bill, please–ease up on the emoticons. You’re like a little old lady who just discovered this amazing thing called the Internetz and can’t resist putting smileys at the end of every sentence.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
You already delivered rude, Reg. Hours and hours ago.
“Opaque” is how I politely deal with someone who can’t stop himself from trying to belabor a dead point by moving on to new tangents.
Meanwhile, regarding the topic at hand, let’s see if this reported Carter-Gore move to end the race is delayed by, well, the topic at hand.
http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/It39s-Obama-stupid-Carter-and.3976738.jp
April 12th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
I’m using the emoticons, for the most part, ironically.
Incidentally, what Schmidt did was entirely predictable.
>Howard Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
my friend Steve Schmidt, McCain’s senior advisor, immediately seized on a few words from Obama’s rather lengthy musings
Yuck. And that’s why most Americans find campaign season nauseating and dishonest.
Also, Bill, please–ease up on the emoticons. You’re like a little old lady who just discovered this amazing thing called the Internetz and can’t resist putting smileys at the end of every sentence.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
If you don’t want to be treated like another idiot at the end of the bar, don’t pass off “John McCain does understand the difference between Shia and Sunni - I have primary source information on that” as somehow dispositive.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
“If Mayhill Fowler says she’s an Obama supporter, she’s a liar as well as a creep. She should go to hell and stay there.”
Indeed, someone who gives the maximum to Obama’s campaign can’t possibly be an Obama supporter, and must be a liar.
These drive-by comments are pretty funny.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Presumably that was from your friend Steve Schmidt. Too bad you’re not friends with Howard Wolfson so you could share insights into Hillary’s expertise in shooting ducks.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
huh?
April 12th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
You really can’t stop yourself, can you? You evidently don’t, or more likely, can’t understand that very simple statement.
If you want to say I’m lying, or can’t hear, or have a bad memory, you’re just being what you’ve been all day.
There is nothing more to say to you, with your off-topic hate-McCain ranting.
>reg Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
If you don’t want to be treated like another idiot at the end of the bar, don’t pass off “John McCain does understand the difference between Shia and Sunni - I have primary source information on that” as somehow dispositive.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
You were saying something about somebody at the end of the bar, as I recall.
>reg Says:
April 12th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Presumably that was from your friend Steve Schmidt. Too bad you’re not friends with Howard Wolfson so you could share insights into Hillary’s expertise in shooting ducks.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
“You really can’t stop yourself, can you?”
Apparently you can’t either.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Considering that Mayhill Fowler got into the private San Francisco fundraiser became Obama campaign people considered her a supporter of the candidate, albeit a very precious, longwinded, and opinionated one — in the form of an activist blogger — and considering that the host of this very argumentative blog, who is not a Republican, was her HuffPo supervisor, yep!
>Kevi