Looney Tunes
What a grueling week this past one has been trying to follow the presidential campaign. It was wall-to-wall “don’t believe
your lyin’ eyes” if you were paying any attention whatsoever to the media chorus.
My god.
Did Obama do what he had to do? Was a crowd of 200,000 to big or too small? Wasn’t that place he gave the speech glorified by the Nazis? Was it presumptuous of him to meet with so many heads of state? Were knuckle-dragging trolls in Ohio and Pennsylvania now gonna think he was too French? And, what about that Sarkozy guy? Is he some kinda closet liberal? What did it mean that Obama’s visit to Downing Street was so much quieter? Did he flip-flop on Iraq? Were the pictures coming out of Baghdad approved by him or the Pentagon? Was he now too black instead of not black enough? Did he dis the troops? And, of course, the media spending hour after hour after hour in asking itself was it too soft on Obama? Then the real zinger: Was Obama’s trip abroad so good that it was actually too good?
My question to add to this list: How many angels can dance on the head of Brian Williams?
Actually, the truth was much simpler. Obama pretty much pulled off just about one of the most successful weeks of presidential campaigning in recent memory. Hats off to my USC Annenberg colleague, Jon Taplin, who sums it all up in two words: “looney tunes.” That’s how he describes the official bloviators who were suggesting that the Obamapalooza might have been for naught.
Taplin rolls out the latest Gallup tracking poll that reveals the sizeable bump that Obama reaped from his trip. He’s now leading McCain by a healthy 49-40 margin. Let’s repeat that: a black freshman senator with a funny arabic/african/muslin/ferner name is leading the 26 year veteran of the U.S. Senate and former POW by a near double-digit margin.
Yeah, a real cliff hanger.
What made Obama’s trip so important is that it was, indeed, Reaganesque (as Taplin points out). What Americans saw was something remarkable. For the first time in a half-dozen years they saw the world, quite literally, show respect and admiration for at least a potential U.S. president. That’s what you call restoring national pride. Allowing Americans to stop grimacing when a barely literate boob who has trouble putting two sentences together pretends to speak on our collective behalf.
John McCain’s campaign, meanwhile, is literally struggling for air. It has become 100% reactive -- the sure sign of a loser. Instead of setting forth any pro-active agenda, McCain has been merely riding each daily news cycle. His message of the day is one cheap shot after another — whining, carping and reacting to whatever Obama says. What’s McCain after? The sympathy vote?
July 28th, 2008 at 1:11 am
That about sums the week up. Have you seen McCain’s new ad attacking Obama for cancelling his visitation of the wounded vets? It mentions that Obama has time to “go to the gym” but not see the troops. That trip to the gym it refers to was the trip in which he plays basketball with…THE TROOPS (and manages to sink a three-pointer).
For a while there I thought the McCain camp was going to actually play smart and stay on the offense (it was somewhat working for a time), but then they go all Clinton on us. Oh well, look for an emotional, tear-filled speech about how he just wants to serve his country while surrounded by wounded veterans the day before the election.
July 28th, 2008 at 2:36 am
I wish I could be so confident.
The GOP is nothing if not politically resourceful. Remember, this is still a machine that got W elected not once, but twice. How can anyone give short shrift to that astounding achievement?
Some moves McCain could make:
Go Nixon and get a “secret plan” to end the war. He wouldn’t label it “secret,” of course, but he would haul out Henry Kissinger to birth it and he would leave details foggy a la Kissinger’s “if you could know what we know, you would support it” dodge.
Osama bin Laden may yet be captured.
War may yet break out with Iran and or between Israel and any of its neighbors, with the renewal of terror alerts in the U.S. and a renewed torrent of hatred/fear mongering directed toward Muslims.
War may escalate dramatically in Pakistan.
Breakthrough improvements may take place in Iraq, or a dramatic re-escalation that leads to a “re-invasion” again hyping up the terror/fear/hate model that Republicans need to get elected.
Obama could continue drifting into Clinton-style pandering to chimerical swing voters who, the soiled logic goes, would never vote for anyone who won’t promise to “obliterate” any enemy of Israel and so on.
Let’s not celebrate just yet.
The time is to organize, politic and fight for sane foreign policy, conservative environmental protection, fiscal responsibility, open-mindedness and other liberal values. Even if Obama is elected, he will need to know that he won because progressives organized, voted and overwhelmed the political opposition.
If Obama wins by margins that suggest he needs to pander to the center right and ignore the left, we can expect him to do just that, as Clinton did, with much the same consequences.
July 28th, 2008 at 5:40 am
Nice post!
Wait until you see the bump Obama gets after the nomination; the one that will overwhelm anything McCain gets from his. It’ll be all downhill from then on–with roller blades. Attached to little tiny rockets.
This thing is so over, but that’s been obvious for months. All Woody and the rest of the crew can come up with is the death rattle of desperation. Drowning men. “That monument was linked to Hitler!” And so was…Germany. Good god. You just keep soiling yourselves.
And by the way, “Country First”? Really? I love the mildly fascist undertones. Unless of course he refers only to his love of country music, in which case he just has bad taste.
Or he could just mean the countryside and how much he loves it. If it’s that and I were Woody I would be forced to post a link to a lyme disease article that I titled “McCain ads increase disease and death.”
July 28th, 2008 at 7:41 am
“his love of country music, in which case he just has bad taste”
Tell it to Ray Charles…
July 28th, 2008 at 7:50 am
Republicans are letting McCain fall on his sword.
If Bush wanted to make Obama look bad, prevent his trip, etc. – he would have. He didn’t.
July 28th, 2008 at 7:55 am
I’m almost as nervous as McLovin for the simple reason that McCain has abandoned anything remotely approximating integrity in his campaigning – they might as well be sending out the viral emails about Obama being a Muslim. The latest ad literally sounds as if Woody wrote it – plus it uses an image that, if you pause it and realize the setting it was lifted from – proves the message patently false. Of course, who’s gonna do that ? I don’t think that McCain is after the sympathy vote so much as stirring up the worst within our body politic as his best shot at a thin edge – sort of like Rove did to him in 2000. What’s sad about this is that I used to think John McCain was a better person than, say, the Woodys. If he ever was in his political life, he’s not now. The Michelle Malkins, et. al. – who dissed McCain relentlessly during the primaries because he didn’t seem to share enough of their pathologies – can be very happy with the current incarnation of their candidate.
July 28th, 2008 at 8:39 am
Aside from the fact that McCain has significantly more credibility than Mr. Wilson and a (slightly) more nuanced message than “Get off my lawn!”, if liberals start to take an optimistic analysis – which may be well-founded – as “conventional wisdom” it will tend to undercut the entire strategy of the Obama campaign, even if Obama wins narrowly.
The point is to build momentum that is “game-changing” – bringing along new down-ticket Dems even in states that can’t be turned fully “blue” by November, registering new voters in an effort to re-energize the political process, and attempting to turn a couple states in the south or west that may not be essential to squeak through the electoral college but where even a narrow or near-win would change the national political narrative.
Edsall at The Huffington Post uses the Pollster.com map shown above to ask the question “Trench warfare or blowout?” The point of the Obama campaign and his ultimate “theory of change” – or governance for that matter – is trench warfare no matter how good polls might look. In California, where McCain’s not even close, the troops are being mobilized en masse for registering new voters, volunteering in tight Congressional races, weekend ventures into Nevada, phone calls to identify potential supporters in Arizona for GOTV, etc. The point isn’t just to win – it’s to win having built more progressive-friendly infrastructure along the way, strengthening the base and, with any luck, changing at least a few of the easy, tired assumptions that color the cheap political analysis churned out for mass consumption.
July 28th, 2008 at 9:21 am
Speaking of down-ticket Dems, looks like we might be rid of that ignorant toad from Alaska.
July 28th, 2008 at 9:24 am
Marc – the Pollster.com analysis Edsall bases his HuffPo piece on is interesting and suggests room for a bit of optimism, but I have to say that making any assertions based on a bump in the Gallup daily tracking polls – which while generally favorable to Obama (in a poll that trends conservative in it’s sampling) had them just a point apart within the last two weeks – is sticking your neck out. (Remember Marc’s serial primary posts in which Obama had Clinton on the ropes, ready for a knockout – and then “She’s Baaaaack!!!!”)
July 28th, 2008 at 9:55 am
I am worried about Obama’s VP choice. If he picks a female other than Hillary Clinton (for example, my governor Kathleen Sebelius, with whom Caroline Kennedy has been having discussions, and who will do nothing to help win Kansas for Obama), the Obama ticket is toast. Millions of Hillary loyalists want their girl to get the nod as they feel like she’s been through the trenches to earn it.
July 28th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Well, Marc’s Nazi comment filter blocked my last comment, so I’ll try again on something else.
This explains the news of Obama’s trip as well as any source that I’ve seen: LINK
July 28th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Hey Marc, you’re contradicting your own on-the-scene scribe, Mayhill, who panned the Belin speech (and the whole European segment of the trip) as tepid, overreaching and naive. She did however, give him high marks for overall vision.
Even if his recent bump deflates, he could win a pretty big electoral college victory, since there are so many states that could swing by small margins. Still, I wouldn’t dismiss the effect of the media’s desire for a tight race; at this point they seem to have a definite inclination to keep McCain afloat and may succeed in doing so.
July 28th, 2008 at 10:38 am
rlc, a few days back, re Mayhill Fowler following Obama to Berlin: “Be afraid. Be very afraid.”
Fowler – proving richard’s prescience – on Obama’s Berlin Speech:
“If Senator McCain achieves what would until Thursday have seemed to be an improbable victory come fall, his opponent’s decision to give a foreign policy speech to Europeans will be seen as the turning point in this season’s Democratic presidential fortunes…(long snip)
“Either the Europeans in the audience did not hear or chose to ignore the driving force of the speech, which was Obama’s call ‘to seek a partnership that extends across this entire continent.’
“On paper, that last comment is one that der Fuhrer himself would have applauded. And certainly the most off-putting aspect of Obama’s speech is the whiff of messianic grandiosity, climaxing, of course, in answering the call of destiny and remaking the world…”
And on, and on…and on…
July 28th, 2008 at 10:46 am
I just had a deep thought.
Hitler gave speeches to large crowds in Berlin. Obama gave a speech to a large crowd in Berlin. Wouldn’t it be cool if I could figure out some way to invoke the ghost of Hitler if I write about Obama’s speech ? I know…I could make a parallel between the goals of allied Western democracies embodied in the NATO alliance and the Nazi conquest of Europe. Because they’re kind of the same. Right ?
July 28th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Western democracies embodied in the NATO alliance and the Nazi conquest of Europe. Because they’re kind of the same. Right ?
Not the same, but both were means to prevent the Left and progressives from political power.
July 28th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Also, since there were only 200,000 people listening to Obama I could credibly read their minds. What they heard, what they chose to hear, what they thought they heard…etc.
Step aside Broder, Brooks and Dowd. There’s a new gal in town.
July 28th, 2008 at 10:50 am
“John McCain’s campaign, meanwhile, is literally struggling for air. It has become 100% reactive — the sure sign of a loser. Instead of setting forth any pro-active agenda, McCain has been merely riding each daily news cycle. His message of the day is one cheap shot after another…”
This sounds like the last couple of months of Hillary’s campaign, which were actually pretty successful. She was able, however, to mix all the shameless cheap shots with some pretty effective grievance-mongering, and that made all the difference. McCain’s gotta work on his grievance-mongering; so far it’s been pretty slipshod. Done with some Hillaryesque ruthless panache, it’ll pull together the cheap shots and sucker punches and turn them into effect combos.
July 28th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Ask yourself, “What has Obama done?” It’s a simple question with a simple answer.
Maybe you can, but I can’t get excited over a presidential candidate who can excite crowds over a non-existent record of accomplishments. A lot of other people will ask and answer that question before the election and realize that Obama is mostly image without substance–something that this country cannot risk having to navigate us through world politics and our free-maket system of economics.
Of the 200,000 count in Berlin, there weren’t that many. If you claim it, show me who counted them (not using Randy’s half-ass system.) It’s about like the 100,000 million man march in Washington–quite overstated. At least most of the people in the million man march could understand English–plus, they didn’t get attracted there by pop bands.
I can hardly wait for the debates, when Obama doesn’t have a tele-prompter in front of him.
July 28th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
“I can hardly wait for the debates”
Woody and I in perfect agreement. Who’da thunk ?
July 28th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
“Still, I wouldn’t dismiss the effect of the media’s desire for a tight race; at this point they seem to have a definite inclination to keep McCain afloat and may succeed in doing so.”
And Evets was on a roll. Your grip on reality slipped on this one. The media is responding to satires of their fawning teenage puppy-love by just recently asking some adult questions of their love interest.
McCain’s ad blaming Obama for not visiting the troops was really stupid and desperate. How in hell he is able to stay withing catching room, while being the one of the most boring, uninspiring, and ineffective campaigners in recent history, is beyond me. It has to be Obama’s youthful look and lack of experience in office……oh, and those kooky konnections from the misty past.
July 28th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
I didn’t realize I was on a roll. What were the high points?
July 28th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
A voice from the past:
“Ask yourself, “What has George W. Bush done?†It’s a simple question with a simple answer.
Maybe you can, but I can’t get excited over a presidential candidate who can excite crowds over a non-existent record of accomplishments. A lot of other people will ask and answer that question before the election and realize that George W is mostly image without substance–something that this country cannot risk having to navigate us through world politics and our free-maket system of economics.
I can hardly wait for the debates, when George W. Bush doesn’t have a tele-prompter in front of him.”
Now I am definitely convinced: Obama is our next president!
July 28th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
To all you conservatives on this board who can’t stop being relentelssly partisan:
Can you please, for the love of god, pick a standard and stick to it. Are you sick of career politicians, or do you want experience?
Is a nine-point lead enough, or does it have to be 10. Or 12, or 17. And if it is 17, is it a convincing lead or, or is it merely reminiscent of Dukakis.
Should a candidate visit the military or should they not? If they do, are they pandering? If they don’t, do they not care?
Is war bad (Kosovo), or good (Iraq)?
Are crazy preachers a problem, or not?
Are government programs bad and inefficient? What about government military programs?
I won’t bore you fine folks any more by going through the whole list. I just want to point out that I’m getting dizzy from all the flapping around like a dying fish on these issues.
I’ve become convinced that conservatives just don’t have principles any more. At least not the ones around here, and they seem to be in short supply all over (the principles, that is).
July 28th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Obama gets in the stall and slides his foot for the (I’m not really) gay vote….
“Some Democratic campaign buttons made for distribution in Idaho show an unlikely pair: Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama and Republican Sen. Larry Craig.”
Picture
As the button says, that’s change I can believe in.
July 28th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
time traveller, it’s not so much that “W” won the elections but that Gore and Kerry lost them by being too liberal and elitist–similar to what happens when Obama says that rural American voters are bitter and clinging to guns and religion.
July 28th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Regarding that (admittedly funny) Idaho Larry button screwup, Tigereye Design, the outfit that the Obama campaign unfortunately signed a contract with to produce their stuff at the beginning of the campaign, is one of the worst vendors I’ve ever dealt with. People are furious at their slow delivery and “out-of-stock” status on so many items. Maybe this will be the straw that breaks their back.
July 28th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Last issues….
Next, to confirm that the MSM is really conservative…
HuffPo: News The MSM Was Too Afraid To Bring You Twice
Why, you guys must have been right!
July 28th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Of course! And when Obama wins the election, it will be because American voters are whiners. Or because of a liberal media conspiracy. Or because it’s the antichrist, as predicted in Revelations. Or because, something something.
One thing for certain, besides Obama’s victory in November, is that Republicans are getting increasingly entertaining to watch as their panic increases and they run in circles, tripping over themselves with contradictory excuses and half-baked accusations. The modern-day Republicans are an odd breed: 100% partisan, definitely not “conservative” in the traditional sense, frightened like tiny rapid puppies. Maybe this will serve as the slap to the head akin to the one Democrats received in the 80′s, so that honest conservatives will actually steer the party again, or that a new party rises from its ashes. But for now, it’s with a combination of disgust and fascination that I watch the Republican Party and its clueless supporters crumble into pieces. Oh well, nature will take its course.
Pass the popcorn!
July 28th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
reg, if it really was a mistake about Obama and Larry Craig being stall buddies, it was a Freudian slip about your candidate. Don’t fire the supplier for being truthful…unless Obama doesn’t like gays.
July 28th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Dan O – I’m more of a lurker here than a poster and I tend to be more libertarian than purely conservative, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, etc… Your rant against conservatives having no principles and the examples on your laundry list are too put mildly…incredibly simplistic and frankly childish.
Is war bad or good? C’mon. It depends on the war. Are government programs bad and inefficient? Somtimes. Should a candidate visit the military and is it pandering? Well, it could be, each event is unique unto itself and should be judged that way.
Your approach is absurd adn ultimately dangerous and simple-minded. It reminds me of the current administration’s approach to much of the world’s problems…and no, the people in the Whitehouse are NOT true conservatives.
July 28th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Woody, you’re a first-class idiot.
July 28th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
reg, well, that’s better than a second-class one. Thanks! And, may I say that you are a first-class citizen of the Democratic Party, for which you have more allegiance than to our country.
Colin, well put.
July 28th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Don’t you ever get tired of your own drivel ?
July 28th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Why does the Bush administration hate America ?
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/28/goodling-passed-over-experienced-counterterrorism-prosecutor-because-wife-was-a-democrat/
July 28th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Don’t you ever get tired of your own drivel ?
July 28th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
On a good day, Woody, you remind me of a boor at the family picnic. On a bad day – like the ones you’ve been having lately – you come off as an annoying 12-year old.
July 28th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
I’ll give Woody this much, he’s one of the very few conservatives I’ve observed that has any time to engage at all with liberals.
Granted, he merely parrots inert talking points from the RNC, gathered via the mainstream media, but he keeps coming back for more, no matter how badly he gets slammed.
Most conservatives I’ve observed in the blogosphere spend all their time singing in the chorus of paranoid wingnut web sites that ban liberals.
July 28th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
“I’ll give Woody this much, he’s one of the very few conservatives I’ve observed that has any time to engage at all with liberals.”
You’re forgetting Jim Adkisson…
July 28th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
To the perverted uncle with the trash mouth scaring the kids at the family picnic:
Gains for McCain in latest USA TODAY/Gallup Poll
“Republican presidential candidate John McCain moved from being behind by 6 points among “likely” voters a month ago to a 4-point lead over Democrat Barack Obama among that group in the latest USA TODAY/Gallup Poll.”
Obama should have gone to the military hospital–photographers or none.
July 28th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Oh, nuts. Somehow, reg’s alter ego appeared in place of my name above. Obviously, this is a problem with Marc’s internet provider and has nothing to do with me.
July 28th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/08-us-pres-ge-mvo.php
July 28th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
among “likely†voters – not the Rock the Vote (if it’s not too inconvenient) crowd.
July 28th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
While Jim R makes an issue of Rev. Wright, I wonder how much this guy listened to Rush, Michael Savage, Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly and the rest of the mouthbreathing rightwingers.
July 28th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
“Witnesses said the attack was cut short after some church members tackled the gunman and held him until police arrived.”
Unitarians kicking ass. Who knew ?
July 28th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Woody – if you look closely you’ll find that Gallup poll oversampled people in line for the early bird special at Red Lobster.
July 28th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
McCain’s Iraq “Brain” – this would be pitiful if it weren’t so scary -
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/206004.php
July 28th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Colin:
Well, if you lurk here then you know the context of which I speak. Of course I know the formulation is simplistic, but the examples are all culled from comments made on this blog by regulars here.
My point is precisely the one you make: it depends. But for Woody in particular it depends only on who is promoting the policy, not on facts in the world. For too many of the conservatives here (currently making asses of themselves spewing all over Obama for everything–note Woody’s complete obsession with rock concerts), the “it depends” depends only on the party. If it comes from McCains’s mouth it is, de facto, good, and if it comes from Obama’s, well, you know the rest.
Note the “citizen of the world” bullshit from the post the other day. A doozy. Woody lambastes Obama for using the phrase, but when some enterprising soul points out Reagan said the same thing, wallah!–no condemnation. Or take the noted (read, manufactured) Nazi connection to some spire where Obama spoke on his trip, and the subsequently spirited defense of Reagan’s trip to an SS cemetery. I’m just fucking tired of all the intellectual dissembling and partisanship. Be a partisan! Great! That’s what we’re here for in part. But some people just refuse to cleave to the most basic tenets of fairness. And when they get called out for their shit, they just dig in deeper. Talk about childish.
Constantly “checking your party credentials,” as Marc likes to put it, just gets gallinger and gallinger. It’s a tiresome game of Twister. And it is DISHONEST. Some regulars on this thread went nutto over Rev. Wright, but couldn’t muster one word about the equally contemptible Hagee. The double standards are just so enervating.
Woody is currently the worst offender and if he wasn’t so busy fucking with reg all the time he’d probably have something useful to contribute.
July 28th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
Sadly, Dan O, I think Woody’s output – “fucking with reg all the time” as you put it – is a “what you see is what you get” deal. The reason his crap gets reduced to “fucking with me” is because I’m fucking with him, calling him relentlessly on his shit. He happens to annoy me. (A weakness, I admit.) With the occasional exception – which I honestly can’t remember, but must exist somewhere in the vast sea of stupid – he’s a one-trick pony.
July 28th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Bravo, Dan O. Very well said. That’s why I come to sites like Marc’s: he cuts through the partisan b.s., and in an intelligent way.
Colin, more commenting and less lurking, please! A reasonable conservative voice like your own is always welcome here–we tend to get the foolish, not-so-reasonable sort a little too often for my taste. Thanks for dropping by.
July 28th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
reg, your polls oversampled people at the 2:00 AM, early Monday morning hip-hop clubs–people who won’t show up at the polls.
July 28th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
“…. if you look closely you’ll find that Gallup poll oversampled people in line for the early bird special at Red Lobster.”
Damn that hurts reg. You were there?
July 28th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Look Dan, I don’t see how you are in a good place to be critiquing the bias of conservatives on this blog.
Show me one instance you have every shown any objectivity by criticizing your candidate for anything. You will find many instances where I have of mine.
Regarding Obama’s choice of a Black Nationalist Church, it cannot help but reflect on his judgement regardless of how biased one is, if they are at all objective. To sit in the pews listing to Wright’s spews, for 20 years, does say something about his judgement. The only thing he lays claim to as the counter to his admitted lack of experience.
July 29th, 2008 at 1:23 am
Jim R:
Maybe Obama wasn’t attending the church to listen to Rev. Wright.
I expect most Christians don’t choose their church based exclusively on the politics of the pastor and many I have known disagree with what’s said in the pulpit, yet continue attending.
The bigger question is why it matters.
Obama has a very long, open public record of activism and political leadership.
True, he hasn’t been the governor of a state, but he has nearly a decade of experience in state government and years in national government.
If you have to resort to guilt by association with his pastor — despite a vast, public record of supporting and opposing legislation, plus giving thousands of speeches — I think it’s safe to say: YA GOT NOTHIN!!!
July 29th, 2008 at 5:06 am
I should probably leave well enough alone, but Jim R says, “Look Dan, I don’t see how you are in a good place to be critiquing the bias of conservatives on this blog.” This can only mean that he doesn’t read my posts. This is no great crime, I’m not Shakespeare, but it does mean he’s said something smashingly inaccurate.
See, my particular voodoo stick is fairness in arguing and in rhetoric. I’m just a few centimeters shy of obsessive on the topic, as I am sure people here can attest. I even get a little tired of myself on the matter.
But I do think it’s exceedingly important, and one of the essential ingredients in having good debates. You have to always be willing to test your assumptions and concede points when they must obviously be conceded. It’s the only way for people of starkly differing views to hear each other and learn from each other. Otherwise you’re just two soreheads yapping into empty closets. I’ve got lots of other rules too but I’ll only share them with you if you’re really nice.
But, keep in mind that while I do carp on these bits of debating decorum, I don’t spend a lot of time complaining to the ref when someone is busting up my nose. I like to give it back.
You go on, “Show me one instance you have every shown any objectivity by criticizing your candidate for anything.” I’ll give you the most recent one. In Marc’s post on FISA I expressed disgust at Obama’s vote–I think I called it a “horrible” decision.
And let me reach into my hat and see what else I can pull out. Oh, here’s one. I think Nancy Pelosi is a fraud and is probably complicit in the national disgrace of torture. See, that’s principle. I think torture is wrong and I don’t give one hot shit who is pushing for it. I’ll condemn anyone–John Yoo, Dick Cheney, Nancy Pelosi–who pushed for it, or knew about it and did nothing. And if Obama continues the policy when he becomes President, well then, in the bin with him too.
To return to my main point, I just really really really want conservatives to stop telling me that bloated budgets are bad when Democrats are in office, but then have nothing to say when their boys are far worse offenders.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:20 am
Just love that mental image, Dan O.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:42 am
“I’ll give Woody this much, he’s one of the very few conservatives I’ve observed that has any time to engage at all with liberals.â€
Have you not seen through his strategy yet? He keeps liberals so tied up answering every one of his ridiculous posts that they don’t have time for political organizing (although reg assures us that this is not true in his case.)
July 29th, 2008 at 6:44 am
As for Jim Adkisson:
http://michael-balter.blogspot.com/2008/07/shooting-down-liberals-and-gays.html
July 29th, 2008 at 7:51 am
“You go on, “Show me one instance you have every shown any objectivity by criticizing your candidate for anything.†I’ll give you the most recent one. In Marc’s post on FISA I expressed disgust at Obama’s vote–I think I called it a “horrible†decision.”
I stand corrected Dan. My apologies. Did you have to hide it though, at the bottom of an eight paragraph epitaph addressed to me? Could this be how I missed your objectivity in past posts?
A wise man is known by a minimum of words. I suggest Robert Frost’s poetry as a trainer.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:52 am
btw I just want to express my appreciation to Dan O for the highly sane comments he makes here, particularly his skewering of political hypocrisy. I’ve got my problems with Obama, as I have expressed here and on my own blog, but for sheer bullshit there is no better place to look (and sniff) than the McCain campaign right now. There is a place for conservative thought in America, but it has to be thought, not mindless knee-jerk slavishness to the party line.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:20 am
Just so you guys know, I don’t regularly visit conservative sites or listen to talk radio to get my views. I decide on my own. However, others often see things the same way.
What has Obama accomplished? – “Just tell me one thing Barack Obama has done that you admire,” I asked a prominent Democrat. He paused and then said that he admired Obama’s speech to the Democratic convention in 2004. I agreed. It was a hell of a speech, but it was just a speech.
Next, I’ll try to piece together an older comment to Dan O. that has been blocked.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:25 am
No matter how nicely I word that comment, it still gets blocked–probably because it spells out the differences between Obama and Reagan. Oh, well.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:31 am
I’ll tell you something Obama has done: He has put together a huge coalition of political forces, millions strong, and so powerful that it not only knocked out the formidable Clinton machine but has a very good chance of knocking out one of the most reactionary political movements in the history of this country. If that is not an accomplishment, I don’t know what is.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:48 am
Balter, energizing fools is not an accomplishment. It’s taking advantage of them. Name something substantive that Obama has done, besides flapping his gums to attack our country.
- – -
reg, via WitnessLA: Even my guy Obama is sounding too canned and pat for my taste as the electoral cycle gets intense.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Oh, oh, wait… I forgot this.
Balter: He has put together a huge coalition of political forces, millions strong, and so powerful….
Okay, so did Hitler.
Now, I feel better.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:05 am
Time for Godwin’s Law. Wanker.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:10 am
The really amusing thing is that if Woody had lived in Hitler’s time he would have been in the front row at the Nuremberg rallies. Same basic politics, same basic gullibility.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:12 am
Listen to Ralph Nader! Obama supporters are in ‘political slavery’
July 29th, 2008 at 9:17 am
Listen to Richard Cohen ! Listen to Ralph Nader ! Obama’s like Hitler !
We’re watching a meltdown here folks.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:18 am
“The really amusing thing is that if Woody had lived in Hitler’s time he would have been in the front row at the Nuremberg rallies.”
I think you overestimate him. The Woody’s of this world are always the suckers in the bleachers.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Samuel, Michael, Listener: Thanks. I really like this community here. There are a good core of commentators I very much enjoy reading.
Jim R: Ah! The poison pill apology. My favorite kind. The takeaway adds so much to the sincerity.
I only wish I was delivering “an eight paragraph epitaph.” Since you were kind enough to suggest Robert Frost to me, would it be too prissy to suggest you get a dictionary? In the meantime, I’ll save my epitaph for the Bush farce.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Hmmm…maybe Woody & GM have a point about a `liberally biased press…
This morning, the headline of a story on MSNBC stated `At Least 11 killed in Bush Crash in the Phillipines’.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:47 am
I’ll leave Woody in charge of the Department of Dubious (to put it mildly) Historical Comparisons, but rather than engae the natterings of a proven fool like Richard Cohen, I’ll note that Abraham Lincoln was elected President with no govermental experience other than a short time in Congress during which he opposed one of our country’s wars (i.e. “hated America”) and subsequently made a bunch of highly regarded speeches against slavery and its expansion in the course of a congressional contest against Stephen Douglas THAT HE LOST. The rest is history…
July 29th, 2008 at 9:48 am
The sentence construction was unfortunate, but the point stands.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:58 am
Here’s the resume of Lincoln’s opponent:
John Cabell Breckinridge (January 16, 1821 – May 17, 1875) was a lawyer, U.S. Representative, Senator from Kentucky, Vice President of the United States when he lost the campaign of 1860 to Lincoln. He went on to serve as a General and Secretary of War for the Confederacy.
Clearly a man of experience and deep conviction, who put honor first, would rather win a war, etc. etc.
July 29th, 2008 at 10:45 am
Thanks, Samuel. I’m a little out of my league with a lot of this stuff as I don’t submerge myself in the political media morass like a lot of the other posters here – all due respect meant – so I don’t know a lot of the peripheral players and day-to-day nitpicking that occurs.
I kind of like that, to be honest, some of the things people get fired up about seem to be simple political posturing and absolutely irrelevant to the grander issues facing our country. On those matters, I try to stay up to date as much as possible.
When I’m compelled to write, I do. But I’m always checking in here – a lot of very intelligent people from looking at things from a variety of angles. I like that.
And I’ve always admired Marc – since becoming acquainted with his writing in the LA Weekly some ten years ago or so…
July 29th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Odds in Irish betting on GOP VP candidate are given below, from paddypower.com this morning.
It seems obvious to me that, if McC has any sense at all, he’ll name Colin Powell. Irish bettors don’t seem to agree, and after all, I thought Hillary had a lock on the Dem nomination.
I’d say Hagel is a longer shot than 66-1 (we’re talking *Republican* VP nomination.)
Who is Sarah Palin? Isn’t Haley Barbour in prison?
Mitt Romney 15 – 8
Carly Fiorina 18 – 1
Fred Smith 66 – 1
Tim Pawlenty 2 – 1
Joe Lieberman 20 – 1
Chuck Hagel 66 – 1
Bobby Jindal 6 – 1
Rudolph Giuliani 25 – 1
David Petreaus 66 – 1
Sarah Palin 8 – 1
Chris Cox 33 – 1
Sam Brownback 100 – 1
Charlie Crist 8 – 1
Tom Coburn 33 – 1
Richard Burr 100 – 1
Rob Portman 11 – 1
Mark Sanford 33 – 1
Joe Huntsman 100 – 1
Kay Bailey Hutchinson 12 – 1
John Kasich 40 – 1
Fred Thompson 100 – 1
Mike Huckabee 14 – 1
Bill Frist 40 – 1
Phil Gramm 100 – 1
Lindsey Graham 16 – 1
Haley Barbour 50 – 1
Colin Powell 100 – 1
Condoleeza Rice 16 – 1
July 29th, 2008 at 11:04 am
I’m pulling for Mitt Romney. That would be just the right bone-headed move to deep-six the campaign for good.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:06 am
Stu,
Sarah Palin is governor of Alaska and Haley Barbour is governor of Mississippi.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:27 am
We know Abraham Lincoln. Abraham Lincoln was a friend of our country. Sir, Senator Obama is no Abraham Lincoln.
At least Lincoln wanted to win his war rather than cut-and-run.
We actually know very little about Obama. It’s one thing to talk, it’s another to have a track record.
- – -
Of course, most of you are too dense to get that the Hitler comparison was a joke, but it is equally funny that in the comparison that you say I would be the one to follow Hitler when it is you who are following the candidate with a similar style with nothing more than emotion and rhetoric–and, oh yeah, blaming a group of people, the rich, for problems and wanting to take away their money for the so-called good of all. Nazis.
- – -
It seems obvious to me that, if McC has any sense at all, he’ll name Colin Powell.
Do you think that America is ready for a black candidate?
July 29th, 2008 at 11:34 am
As for the size of the crowd at Obama’s speech, in the current issue of Newsweek, you can see a photo of Strasse des 17 Juni all thhe way through the Tiergarten, through Unter den Linden to the Brandenburg Gate. The streets appear to be closed and filled with people. Certainly looks possible that 200,000 to me.
BTW, has anyone noticed how much more shrill Woody gets after another republican is indicted?
July 29th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Ted Stephens – Indicted! Good! Too bad he didn’t resign when the bridge to nowhere lost its vote. A RINO bites the dust…
July 29th, 2008 at 11:39 am
The distance from the Siegssäule (where Obama was speaking) to the Brandenburg Gate is about 2 kilometers, btw.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Michael, please say why you think Romney would deep six McCain’s campaign?
July 29th, 2008 at 11:43 am
“the Hitler comparison was a joke”
BUT
“(you) are following the candidate with a similar style with nothing more than emotion and rhetoric–and, oh yeah, blaming a group of people, the rich, for problems and wanting to take away their money for the so-called good of all. Nazis.”
July 29th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Jim Hitchcock, you know the old joke about the liberal NY Times and the headline: “World Ends Tomorrow – Women and Minorities Hit Hardest?”
Well, get this:
“It is critical our community be an integral and active part of the debate because African-Americans are disproportionately impacted by the effects of climate change economically, socially and through our health and well-being,†House Majority Whip James Clyburn, D-S.C., said July 29.
- – -
Also, remember the Clinton Body Count (do you remember Vince Foster…)? Well, get ready.
The Obama Death List
There are more. And, doesn’t the date-rape sound eerily familiar. Let’s not put our country through that again by electing a President with such a sordid past. Vote for Nader.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Thanks for the question, GM. Anything that pulls the McCain campaign further to the right–a trend already in progress–is good for Obama. Romney would help do that. The country is moving leftwards, at least for the moment, which is why McCain is already in so much trouble. Even the evangelicals are split now between those who want to kill for Jesus and those who want to save the earth for Jesus.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Randy, that’s some interesting head-counting method that you use. Why don’t we skip the census in 2010 and just let you estimate the number of Americans in each state?
reg, you still don’t get that I’m kidding. How sad.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:52 am
Well I come back from a three day “tune-up” in the hospital and the usual suspects still can’t agree. What a surprise! So let me simplify:
1. Of course the media will downplay the trip. Their interest is in a close race that will stimulate ratings and circulation. Think they don’t know its a blowout? George Will (of all people) has it right. Sunday he told the ABC panel that thiswas a rerun of 1980. People want change but are unsure of Obama. Jus6t as they were unsure of Reagan. Ronnie had a four or five point lead going into the one and only debate with Carter. That satisfied people about the gipper and you the result. Same thing will happen this fall.
2. I am feeling sorry for Johnny-one note (“The Surge is Working! Dammit!). He better like country music since his tune is “If it weren’t for bad luck I’d have no luck at all!” Hem tries a cutie by going to a German Restaurant. Great!. A photo op on an oil platform to roast Obama and gets a hurrican and an oil spill. Then another in Bakersfied (Bakersfield!) which looked crummy anyway and all the media wan6ts to talk about is a biopsy for skin cancer!
3. Reg has it right. The “Straight Talk” express is going into desperation mode and it won’t be pretty! McCain’s rants are already raising eyebrows. When Joe Klein says its the most scuroulous he’s ever seen you know you’re in for it.
Now every one go back to quake – 5.8 I hear!
July 29th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Oh Goody! Woody gives us a “Obama Death List!” And they say he’s not like Bill and Hil!
July 29th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Woody,
You left out a stretch of people two kilometers long. The local authorities estimated 200,000. It certainly seems credible to me.
reg, you still don’t get that I’m kidding
If you wer ever actually funny we might be able to tell.
July 29th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
>Why…Romney … deep six
For starters, he can’t deliver MI, and UT and MA are uncontested. Neither McC nor Romney have much appeal to the snake handlers, who could peel off to a racist or religious independent candidate or just stay away from the polls, giving heavily black southern states to Obama. Also, Romney reminds people of GWB, a mediocrity buying public office with inherited wealth. Finally, he’s too boring to give a bump to McC’s weak campaign.
McC needs to make a dramatic choice. He’ll try to take some of the steam out of Obama’s blackness by choosing a hispanic or black VP candidate. If Obama chooses a woman running mate, McC will certainly do that, too. Romney is all wrong.
July 29th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Woody – you left the most disturbing name off of the complete, detailed list of people Obama has killed – a list that serious people of goodwill are currently circulating to save America:
DARSANO RAHARDJO – Childhood classmate of Barack Obama when he attended a madrassa in Indonesia. Was found with his head cut off in a Jakarta alley way in 1970. Many children at the school attributed Rahardjo’s murder to the young Barack Obama. It was likely done as an initiation ritual, since Islam demands that a boy spill another’s blood before the age of ten to prove their loyalty to Allah.
See, this started when Obama was nine years old. If he’s elected President we’ll all end up dead. We’d be better off electing O.J.Simpson. And the author of this email says the information has been checked with Snopes.com and they verified it. So we can be assured that this isn’t a smear job by shameless, despeerate and degenerate scumbags who have no moral or intellectual standards.
Pass this information along to really old, paranoid friends and relatives if you are a decent white Christian who loves your country.
July 29th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
“You left out a stretch of people two kilometers long. The local authorities estimated 200,000. It certainly seems credible to me.”
I’m not sure if this is a comment on the Obama Death List or the Berlin Nazi Rally crowd.
July 29th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Osamabama
July 29th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Marc’s titling this thread “Looney Tunes” was prescient…
July 29th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
PS, Paddy Power also has Hagel at 20-1 as Democratic VP candidate. This is clearly a tribute to the power of electronic voting machines
Bono is at 1000-1 to be the next Pope, even though he’s a Protestant.
July 29th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
“The “Straight Talk†express is going into desperation mode and it won’t be pretty! McCain’s rants are already raising eyebrows.”
Today’s polls show things tightening again, so it looks like desperation mode might be working. I think Obama’s gotta start pounding out his economic message with real gusto. This is where McCain is weakest and it’s the major voter concern (for obvious reasons). The overseas trip will pay long term dividends but those glittering moments won’t win him this thing. Focusing more on domestic policy will also give McCain less of an opening for endless, shameles sniping on the foreign policy terrain which the media has cravenly ceded to him.
BTW rlc — I hope the tune-up was successful. Don’t know what the problem was but wish you all the best.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
How classless and patently intended for political purposes: Obama Released His Own Jerusalem Prayer Note.
This act of Obama is as phony as Bill Clinton “just happening” to find some stones on the Normandy beach and arranging them in the shape of a cross–just to be caught by photographers.
You might as well have nominated Hillary.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Hey – does Mitt Romney remind anyone else of that guy on Mad Men (except that guy’s smarter and Romney’s phonier) ?
July 29th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
I’ll leave folks to follow the links in Woody’s post to discover, once again that he’s – not to put too fine a point on it – a totally dishonest sack of shit.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
“You might as well have nominated Hillary.”
Good point, Woody. She never releases her prayer notes. I knew there was a reason I liked her.
However, since the update on your link indicates that BHO’s campaign, didn’t, in fact, authorize the note’s publication, I think we should stick with him. The fact is, he’s no kvittel-monger and never has been. Furthermore, the yeshiva student who purloined the note (kvittel), has apologized profusely and promises to do tshuva (repentance). So unless you think it was all an intricate, subtly choreographed ploy, I say we deflate this little green football and toss it aside.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
FROM NEW REPUBLIC BLOG, THE PLANK:
I just got off the phone with a Ma’ariv spokesman who says that the accusation is “completely false,” and that he has no idea who these papers were quoting from Ma’ariv. “No official spokesman for Ma’ariv told this to any of the papers.” I’ve got some calls in to these papers to find out where they got the quote. (I’ll update here when I hear back.) He told me definitively that “the Obama campaign did not give us a copy of the letter or approve it for printing.”
–Zvika Krieger
Posted: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 4:25 PM
July 29th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Oh, evets. How can you be so duped? Do you want to “believe” that badly? The newspaper says that the campaign released the note. Now, the campaign denies it. Yeah, why believe the lying paper? I guess the note went from the wall to God to the newspaper.
I’m tired with messing with you guys. Don’t get your feelings hurt.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Department of Unintentional Humor by Woody:
“How can you be so duped? Do you want to ‘believe’ that badly?”
July 29th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
What about the Yeshiva kid who picked the note out of the wall and passed it on to the paper. Is he just part of the plot? Are his professed feelings of guilt just an act? If so, this whole caper is really impressive.
If Obama is this clever, thorough and attentive to detail, he should definitely be Prez.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Democrats have donkey loads of problems, but I just never hear of shit like this coming from them:
time-blog.com/swampland/2008/07/sleazy_campaign_tactic_of_the.html
(My links always go up in smoke so you’ll have to fill in the protocol)
July 29th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Do you want to “believe†that badly?
No, but apparently you do.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Has anyone else considered the possibility that “Woody” is a performance artist working out of a loft in SoHo.
Hopefully no NEA funds are involved…
July 29th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Does woody gethis talking poijts fromm FOX or does he skip the middleman and go straight to the WH? (see Scott McClellen)
July 29th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
More context from TNR, which initially ran with the nonsense about Obama leaking his prayer…
UPDATE 3 (4:25 p.m.): I finally heard back from the Ma’ariv spokesman, who denied that the Obama campaign leaked the memo to them or gave them approval to print it, and who disavowed the alleged spokesman who gave quotes to at least four Israeli publications. At the risk of beating a dead horse, I’ll be following up with those publications to find out where they got those quotes from. I just spoke with an editor at one of those publications who broached the possibility that Ma’ariv was trying to deflect criticims of it by releasing these spurious rumors about the Obama campaign, but upon realizing that they’ll have to back up those accusations, is now disavowing them. I’ll update here if I get anything interesting from those publications.
–Zvika Krieger
July 30th, 2008 at 8:28 am
Cooperstown commenter and (real!) journalist Bill Bradley has a great, informative column on McCain’s current strategy:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-bradley/13-things-to-know-about-t_b_115740.html
July 30th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Where is the list and rankings of dumbest anti-Obama propaganda?
July 30th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Snopes
January 15th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
Amoxicillin….
Amoxicillin. Amoxicillin dosage. Amoxicillin without a prescription. Expiration date for amoxicillin. Taking amoxicillin while pregnant….