Uh, Marc, aren’t you one of the folks that got suckered in by going there? I’ll admit that your probable intent was to expose this “meet-up” as a stunt, but by going there, by writing a couple of columns and posts didn’t you also feed into the dog-and-pony show?

On the other hand, I did enjoy your posts/columns.

Think back about the “Million Man March” for black men and the “Million Mom March” against guns. In both cases, the numbers claimed or estimated *and reported* far exceeded the real numbers and those estimated by the National Park Service and other independent counts–by several hundred thousand. No matter, the press willingly and enthusiastically reported the higher numbers without question. They accepted the “estimates” of the organizers and reported them as fact even though they were there and knew better. Why? It gave the movements higher perceived support than actual support.

When “Promise Keepers,” a decent group of men with a huge attendance, held a gathering in the nation’s capital, it was mostly ignored. Can’t give them any credibility.

Several times a year I watch media coverage of gatherings to protest war, to support the environment, to push gay “rights,” to oppose Bush nominations, and to advertise various wacko movements. The press covers those protests with great enthusiasm as if those demonstrations had overwhelming support. Well, the numbers reported *always* (used intentionally) exceed those who really attend. Sometimes it’s a joke when the television crews far outnumber the 8-10 protestors with signs and inane chants of “hey, hey, ho, ho, something or other has to go.” To me it’s a joke. However, the reporters act so seriously as if this is a big news event. The newspaper even acts as a recruiter by having ads disguised as news telling everyone where and when the event will be held.

Oh, and why would you expect the media to make any corrections when they are so close to these left-wing protest groups that they hire the people who organized the protests and made exagerrated lies? In January CBS News re-hired Donna Dees, who was with them from 1987-93. Donna Dees founded and organized the Million (hundred thousand) Mom March.

On another recent matter, I saw where the BBC arranged protests against the conservatives and even put microphones on the protesters in advance. Just another case of news reporters fabricating a story or making the news rather than just reporting it and being honest about it.

This is turning too much into a rant. Bottom line, I generally agree with Marc–especially the last paragraph of his article. But, to take it one step further, while Marc essentially says that today’s press is not doing its job, I maintain that it is also biased and intentionally dishonest in their roles.

The press doesn’t need more lessons in reporting; it needs lessons in ethics.

Once again Woody has charicatured himself successfully.

Perfect description of the Terri Schiavo demonstrations outside her clinic – which were very small in the handful of wide-angle pix that were available. And I hate to tell you this Woody, but it was the same deal with the pulldown of Saddam’s statue in Baghdad…no big crowd if you saw the wide-angle version – which you never did in MSM. For you to focus on a numbers game around the edges regarding something like the Farrakhan March, which was a large march, whatever else you say about it, shows you are NOTHING but a partisan carper. Your analysis of the media amounts to nil – your own glaring bias is very, very large.

Early civil rights efforts garnered very little active participation, yet were VERY effective in changing the face of the debate. The same can be said about the start of Prop 13; or the recall (it was a joke right up to when the petition was placed on the ballot) or any number of populist concerns.

The LAT had a money quote a couple of days ago, that political elites in both parties loathe the topic of immigration reform while it’s wildly popular in the voting public. A guy like Arnold isn’t stupid, and isn’t part of either party establishment. He CAN if he wishes exploit this.

Particularly since the 9/11 commission recommended that the Feds prevent States from giving out Drivers Licenses or picture IDs to persons in this country illegally, as happened with the 9/11 hijackers. The position can be framed of fundamental patriotism, which is always a winner.

Reg — forgive me for replying to you in this thread. I agree that busboys and gardeners and such should not as a matter of fairness be denied drivers licenses, but at the same time I don’t see how you can do this and not allow potential security threats like the 9/11 hijackers to get a tool (picture ID) that can be used for terror, and also encourage illegal immigration. On balance I come down against issuing the licenses, but my larger point was this is VERY popular and is a wedge issue for Arnold against Dems who will be seen as pandering and (sadly) putting security last which is a historic weakness for the Party in terms of perception.

ITA that Newsome is a very good mayor, it’s sad that IMHO his being SF’s mayor will limit him statewide, in that he’ll get tarred (unfairly) with the rep of the Bay Area’s nuttier and more corrupt folks. Particularly since Boxer seems to have her own payola scandal to match DeLays and she’s identified with that area IMHO.

Angelides IMHO will have to embrace Dem orthodoxy on illegal immigration, and Drivers Licenses, spending on health care and schools (illegals are an enormous burden), and simple wage levels at least offer an opportunity for Arnold if he’s ruthless enough to hammer Phil with the idea that he puts illegal aliens ahead of legal Californians. Since I do not care for Arnold much (except redistricting which I think would make both Parties more moderate and therefore competitive and responsive to voters concerns) this prospect fills me with dismay.

Oh, piffle, Woody…. Promise Keepers received an enormous media build up. Bill Clinton even mentioned them (favorably) in his weekly address to the nation. (Never mind that this was a group that called for women to “submit” to their husbands. Lovely. But whatever.)

For the record, the Million Mom March drew a couple of hundred thousand women in DC…with added thousands marching on the same time elsewhere in the country….and was reported as such. (There were around 7000 at the two LA marches. I was there. I saw ‘em.)

And, hey, unlike the so-called Million Men, the Promise Keepers, and the unimpressive gaggle of lawn-chair packing, would-be Rambos who wandered into Tombstone…all those moms who marched in 2000 had to first find baby sitters, just to be able to get out of the house!!!

Off topic, but hope you can address this some time soon — being a vagrant from LA for so many years now…am truly curious about The Arnold vs Reiner possible for the next Gov…watching it from a distance with no real info…is this serious or just more gossip…as I said, out of the loop for a decade or more now in terms of LA…when/if you have time or are even remotely interested…would appreciate your view point…if you posted one already…I missed it…

Thanks!

If you live in So Cal though and have a comment on Rob Reiner…I am all ears!….

We accept your plea… the jury is dismissed with the thanks of the court.

….Here’s another, more pernicious subtext to what Marc has written: While all the attention is focused on Arnold’s blathering, and non-issues like the Minutemen, Congress is about to pass an astonishingly loathsome little piece of legislative excrement known as REAL ID….with remarkably little coverage. REAL ID has been attached, barnacle-like to the monster emergency appropriations bill that is slated to sail through a vote virtually unchallenged, because it provides badly needed funds for such stuff as American troops in Iraq and tsunami relief. .

But here’s the deal: No one outside of the conference committee drafting it HAS READ THE FINAL TEXT OF THE BILL. And they likely won’t before it comes to a vote. This means neither the Senate nor the House will have any kind of hearings or even the barest bit of discussion on this wretched piece of xenophobic detritus.

They’ll just vote it into law.

For those of you who may not know or remember, REAL ID purports to “set federal standards for driver’s license documents and prohibit states from giving driver’s licenses to anyone in the country illegally…”

Okay, some people think that’s a good idea. I don’t happen to. And neither does anybody who actually knows much of anything about the practicality of the issue— including the National Governors’ Association, the National Conference of State Legislatures, the Council of State Governments, and the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators….and such immigration-knowledgeable conservatives like John McCain and Dick Lugar. They’re all against it. But, hey, maybe we should discuss it in the context of an overall discussion of immigration reform.

But that’s not what’s happening. Next week, REAL ID is, instead, expected to be voted into law as a fait accompli because of its attachment to the emergency spending bill….and because NOBODY’S PAYING ATTENTION.

But wait: it gets worse.

The drivers license part of the statute ain’t the half of it, folks. Among REAL ID’s hidden provisions are a bunch of other nasty, brutish little bills that were already roundly defeated by Congress…and now have been grafted— like grotesque extra limbs—on to this barnacle bill. They are also slated to become law without so much as a blink on the part of most of the press.

For example, REAL ID will suspend any right to habeas corpus review in nearly ALL deportation proceedings. Think about it: Habeas Corpus review has never been suspended since the Civil War. And Congress is about to do it in the next few days—even for permanent legal residents who might erroneously face deportation hearing because, say, their name is similar to someone else’s, or because of clerical error, or for any and all reasons. Those LEGAL residents’ Constitutional right to legal recourse is about to be removed. (Have we all lost our minds???? Evidently.)

There’s more. REAL ID also drastically limits the ability of people to seek asylum in the US. (Under current law, no member of a terrorist organization can be eligible for asylum, so that ain’t the reason.) Furthermore, it would allow deportation to take place WHILE the asylum seeker’s case is still pending. (Let’s just say you’ve fled to the US because you claim you’ll be killed in your home country for political reasons. So while the courts are dithering about whether your claim of threat is true….you can be sent back…to be killed. Okay, yeah. That works.)

And here’s one more really fun aspect to REAL ID that no one seems to be covering: It allows the Department of Homeland Security to waive ALL laws—without exception—in order to build whatever fences and barriers DHS wants on any of our land borders. Let me make that clearer, after REAL ID passes, there will be absolutely no stipulation or limitation whatsoever as to what kind of laws can be waived if DHS is in the mood to build a new border barrier. This free ticket covers environmental laws, labor laws AND laws allowing property owners to be compensated for the confiscation of their land. (Libertarians are you listening?????)

Again, this puppy is about to be passed without so much as a word of discussion…by either Congress or press.

But, hey, why cover piddling little issues like habeas corpus when you can talk about lawn-chair minutemen…

….Here’s another, more pernicious subtext to what Marc has written: While all the attention is focused on Arnold’s blathering, and non-issues like the Minutemen, Congress is about to pass an astonishingly loathsome little piece of legislative excrement known as REAL ID….with remarkably little coverage. REAL ID has been attached, barnacle-like to the monster emergency appropriations bill that is slated to sail through a vote virtually unchallenged, because it provides badly needed funds for such stuff as American troops in Iraq and tsunami relief. .

But here’s the deal: No one outside of the conference committee drafting it HAS READ THE FINAL TEXT OF THE BILL. And they likely won’t before it comes to a vote. This means neither the Senate nor the House will have any kind of hearings or even the barest bit of discussion on this wretched piece of xenophobic detritus.

They’ll just vote it into law.

For those of you who may not know or remember, REAL ID purports to “set federal standards for driver’s license documents and prohibit states from giving driver’s licenses to anyone in the country illegally…”

Okay, some people think that’s a good idea. I don’t happen to. And neither does anybody who actually knows much of anything about the practicality of the issue— including the National Governors’ Association, the National Conference of State Legislatures, the Council of State Governments, and the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators….and such immigration-knowledgeable conservatives like John McCain and Dick Lugar. They’re all against it. But, hey, maybe we should discuss it in the context of an overall discussion of immigration reform.

But that’s not what’s happening. Next week, REAL ID is, instead, expected to be voted into law as a fait accompli because of its attachment to the emergency spending bill….and because NOBODY’S PAYING ATTENTION.

But wait: it gets worse.

The drivers license part of the statute ain’t the half of it, folks. Among REAL ID’s hidden provisions are a bunch of other nasty, brutish little bills that were already roundly defeated by Congress…and now have been grafted— like grotesque extra limbs—on to this barnacle bill. They are also slated to become law without so much as a blink on the part of most of the press.

For example, REAL ID will suspend any right to habeas corpus review in nearly ALL deportation proceedings. Think about it: Habeas Corpus review has never been suspended since the Civil War. And Congress is about to do it in the next few days—even for permanent legal residents who might erroneously face deportation hearing because, say, their name is similar to someone else’s, or because of clerical error, or for any and all reasons. Those LEGAL residents’ Constitutional right to legal recourse is about to be removed. (Have we all lost our minds???? Evidently.)

There’s more. REAL ID also drastically limits the ability of people to seek asylum in the US. (Under current law, no member of a terrorist organization can be eligible for asylum, so that ain’t the reason.) Furthermore, it would allow deportation to take place WHILE the asylum seeker’s case is still pending. (Let’s just say you’ve fled to the US because you claim you’ll be killed in your home country for political reasons. So while the courts are dithering about whether your claim of threat is true….you can be sent back…to be killed. Okay, yeah. That works.)

And here’s one more really fun aspect to REAL ID that no one seems to be covering: It allows the Department of Homeland Security to waive ALL laws—without exception—in order to build whatever fences and barriers DHS wants on any of our land borders. Let me make that clearer, after REAL ID passes, there will be absolutely no stipulation or limitation whatsoever as to what kind of laws can be waived if DHS is in the mood to build a new border barrier. This free ticket covers environmental laws, labor laws AND laws allowing property owners to be compensated for the confiscation of their land. (Libertarians are you listening?????)

Again, this puppy is about to be passed without so much as a word of discussion…by either Congress or press.

But, hey, why cover piddling little issues like habeas corpus when you can talk about lawn-chair minutemen…