I’ve been struggling on and off, all day, to write something appropriate about the barbaric torture and murder of pacifist Tom Fox in Iraq.
I can find no words.
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March 11th, 2006 at 8:13 pm
Well I think you condensed it well. It’s an example of old fashioned barbarism.
March 11th, 2006 at 8:24 pm
I think what you wrote is the most appropriate response, Marc.
March 11th, 2006 at 8:37 pm
York is right…barbaric is the perfect word.
March 11th, 2006 at 9:00 pm
I think we can all agree on that.
March 11th, 2006 at 9:58 pm
There are kind people in this world who endeavor to help others. This is, of course, good thing. Yet there are a unique few among those same kind people who have discovered an entirely different way to exercise that same human imperative. They don’t call it “help.” They call it accompaniment.
Tom Fox came to Iraq to accompany ordinary Iraqis.
For my money, there’s no higher calling.
Rest in Peace.
Here’s a link to Tom Fox’s blog. He called it “Waiting In the Light”
http://waitinginthelight.blogspot.com/
March 11th, 2006 at 10:05 pm
This is a terrible thing, especially in light of the fact of Mr. Fox’s contribution to assist in this tragic war. The innocent are always the first tragedy in any war, but it is specifically painful when it happens to those who are mercifully trying to help.
While we are thinking about the appropriate words for what happened to Mr. Fox – let’s not forget what was published all over the world in headlines (except for the United States); that over 7,000 Iraqis have met the same fate (torture, execution) at the hands of those called “authorities” in Iraq.
In spite of this tragedy I hope hundreds rise up in the place of Mr. Fox, to salve the wounds of war. Last, when we search for words let ‘s not forget who instigated this war – because if we do, we will never come up with an answer that will stop tragedies like this, nor do justice to the needless death of thousands.
March 11th, 2006 at 10:22 pm
Well, one thing we are not is surprised.
March 11th, 2006 at 11:55 pm
“There are kind people in this world who endeavor to help others. This is, of course, good thing. Yet there are a unique few among those same kind people who have discovered an entirely different way to exercise that same human imperative. They don’t call it “help.†They call it accompaniment.
Tom Fox came to Iraq to accompany ordinary Iraqis.”
Those are some beautiful and moving words from rosedog. Thanks for directing me to the blog. What’s obvious is that Mr Fox cared for those that he accompanied and beared witness to injustice wherever they existed. I’ve included some pictures of Tom (RIP) valiantly protesting the often ignored and grotesque injustices inflcited on the people of Palestine. Peace
http://tinyurl.com/k4pbc
March 11th, 2006 at 11:58 pm
http://tinyurl.com/g93ok
March 12th, 2006 at 7:52 am
Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, and Buddha will be damn proud of Tom. Not so much those who murdered him.
March 12th, 2006 at 8:12 am
http://www.counterpunch.org/andrew01092006.html I’ll let this article do the talking–What is the value of a human life–ask George Bush.
March 12th, 2006 at 8:52 am
Well Virgil, Iraqi’s have not forgotten who instigated this war.
As Treasure of Baghdad told me:
Before the war started I was counting the days for Saddam to be removed. We did not have another choice but to believe the Americans. All the attempts to get rid of him had failed in the past. So we said, only the Americans will do it.
You should tell him you were against this from the beginning Virgil.
Iraqi’s know this is their chance for freedom Virgil. They want this war to end. They mourn their friends and family that have been killed. They wish both the US and their leaders had done better in the past but they know this is better than living under Saddams thumb.
March 12th, 2006 at 9:45 am
“that over 7,000 Iraqis have met the same fate (torture, execution) at the hands of those called “authorities†in Iraq.”
So Johnson claims the US has tortured and killed this many innocent Iraqis? What’s the source of this information? This sort of sordid ad populum has happened again and again. They will keep doing it as long as we keep helping. That much is clear. The martyred protestor is a very old political role.
March 12th, 2006 at 9:50 am
“valiantly protesting the often ignored and grotesque injustices inflcited on the people of Palestine. Peace”
Right. It didn’t take long to boomerang back to #1. Which side of that fight does this atrocity resemble? I think there’s huge disconnect going on.
March 12th, 2006 at 10:49 am
Of course, Ugly tries to make it all very simple. But it’s not.
Go to his website and read the rest of the comments from those Iraqis he himself quotes:
2. Do you still think it was a good idea?
24: I don’t regret it, yet!
BT: Well, it was a good idea. Getting rid of Saddam is something huge. No one was able to do so. But I think I more disappointed that the Americans have failed in achieving the aftermath of Saddam’s fall. We were promised with a lot of things and nothing was achieved.
3. Who do you blame for the Violence in Iraq now?
24: Well, that might sound crazy, but I blame us, the Iraqis I mean. It all is in our hands. If we love each other and care about each other, this violence wouldn’t happen. If we just put aside our ambition to be better than our neighbors, our relatives, our friends, and our brothers we will win!
BT: On the first step, I blame the Americans first. I think insurgency started in Iraq after the CPA disbanded the army and police. Many officers and soldiers were left jobless. They thought of taking revenge which foreign fighters like Zarqawi supported.
Snip)
6. Do you believe that there were terrorists like Abu Nidal, Abu Abbas, and Zarqawi living in Iraq before the US invaded?
24: Whether they lived in Iraq or not, the fact is that I heard the first car bomb explodes in Iraq after the war in 2003!
BT: Well, I speak for the parts of Iraq that were under Saddam’s control. I think there were no foreign insurgent inside Iraqi territories. They can’t, simply. Saddam was so powerful and he would have not given any chance to anyone to be more popular or powerful. But for the northern areas, the Kurdish ones, I believe there were some insurgents of “Ansar Al-Islam†hiding in the mountains because they were not under control of the Saddam regime.
End clip.
I, for one, among those against the war, absolutely believed once a completely dishonest, indefensible-as-a- U.S. national-security-proposition war policy was a fait accompli that at least the Iraqis would benefit. I really wasn’t prepared for a degree of incompetence and hubris on the part of this administration that guaranteed a situation in which even very pro-American Iraqis who welcomed liberation from Saddam aren’t so sure three years later.
Ugly – please don’t sue me for copying those quotes.
March 12th, 2006 at 11:30 am
Biden said as much today on MTP. He thought the Iraqis would benefit, but wasn’t prepared for the level of incompetence about the fall of Baghdad. He said he wouldn’t have voted for it with the knowledge of what we now know about the the WMD and the like. Only the iron hand of Saddam and his shill-like culture of self-worship kept the lid on this place. It’s lid we can’t put back on. Only they can.
March 12th, 2006 at 1:59 pm
Ugly American,
I don’t know where you come up with this nonsense but Iraq showed no aggression toward us, nor did they have the ability to do so (weapons of mass destruction my arse!). People, even some from Iraq could of hoped and prayed all they wanted to for freedom from Sadam, but that was not the intent of this administration period (de oppressed libre – yeah right) – suddenly it turns into “democracy,” so don’t bring me naive expectations – it does not wash, no matter who says it. By the way, a good choice of moniker.
York,
It is not even worth a reply to you, no one said that, and you are an ignorant baboon (and that is a mild response compared to your previous name calling proclivity). People, go see the exchange under Marc’s “The New Manifesto,” with this nitwit. Go nip at someone else heels. In fact, prompt my name and go read my site – “Death Squads In Iraq, 7000 Killed,” be sure to read the links and quotes. Apparently Yorkie is not familiar with counter insurgency practices, but I am.
March 12th, 2006 at 2:39 pm
I didn’t come up with “this nonsense” I just quoted what an Iraqi told me word for word.
Do you wish to call him a liar?
It is all well and good for civilians and partisan politicians to question the sincerity and competence of the Bush administration and the commanders in the field.
The fact remains. When given the chance a Democratic congress and president did nothing to remove Saddam from Power.
Soldiers in the field believe in their commanders decisions. The Commanders believe we are on the right track.
Sure there have been mistakes. Lots of them. Just as all wars have.
and no Reg I do not mind you qouting what 24 Steps to Liberty and Treasure of Baghdad had to say. The more people who read their comments the better imo.
March 12th, 2006 at 3:14 pm
Ugly.. that is an ahistorical abd ultimatelt ridiculous argument. Yes, the Democrats did nothing to remove Saddam Hussein. And the Republicans did nothing to remove Pinochet from Chile. Pap Doc and Baby Doc from Haiti, dedicated mass murderers from government in Guatemala, etc etc. In fact, they supported them. The same way that Don Rumsfeld flew into Baghdad in the 80′s to kiss Saddam’s ass.. the same way Reagan’s boys flew into Teheran to play pattycake with the Mullahs,
You want to make an argument for war Iraq? Fine, go ahead. But dont insult our intelligence by claiming that Republicans (or democrats for that matter) have some record of removing dictators. Please.
March 12th, 2006 at 3:17 pm
Ugly American,
It is true that there are quite a few mistakes made in war, that is true. However, one cannot escape the the entire fabric of this war at it’s inception.
It is also true, that most wars are based on lies – it’s apparent that you and I see two different beasts (so to speak) with this administration, and probably the whole nature of the State. I have no intention of impugning your sincere appeal, nor that of the party who spoke to you.
Yes, your right, about the protocol of field command. When one surveys the structure of war and it’s reasoning, it is only fair that we go to where the signal to engage is given.
I have never attempted to beat people who have expectations, either our men in uniform that are used, nor those who expect good in the region that the war has taken place – but I am asking you to reconsider what the powers that be wanted, and what they have done in this instance.
There is nothing good in this war, there was nothing but self-interest of the elite few that called for it, and no one else will profit except those in power and their darling corporations. I respect what you have said, but it’s on that note I remain.
We can cry democracy till we all lose our collective voices, but it was nothing but an afterthought, a mere cover for national interest (and that is almost never the interest of the people), that benefits the few.
March 12th, 2006 at 3:22 pm
“Soldiers in the field believe in their commanders decisions. The Commanders believe we are on the right track.”
We all feel a whole lot better when wingnuts recite their mantras.
“The fact remains. When given the chance a Democratic congress and president did nothing to remove Saddam from Power.”
Unbelievable.
Actually, the fact remains that when given the chance, a Republican president named Bush turned his back on people inside Iraq who had risen up against Saddam and refused to give them the air cover that might have guaranteed their success without American troops occupying Iraq. That Republican president also ordered soldiers in the field not to allow Shiite refugees fleeing Saddam’s troops to cross the border into Kuwait. Luckily, at least some of these soldiers didn’t believe in their Commander’s decision and refused to stop them when so ordered by civilian officials of the administration. Also the fact remains that when given the chance, a Republican president named Reagan sided with Saddam and sent Donald Rumsfeld to Baghdad to offer him American military intelligence, among other aid, at a time when the dictator was committing war crimes. What “chance” are you talking about – or is it just more of your flimsy political pathology in which saying silly things makes them so ?
Partisan hackery is one thing. But the kind of swill Ugly is trying to pass off as something less than dredging the depths of intellectual incompetence and “It’s Clinton’s Fault!” knee-jerk maliciousness is truly of an order unto itself.
March 12th, 2006 at 4:29 pm
Yeah easy to blame the other guy. Johnson that death squad crap is lunacy. Your thesis is the counter-insurgency is worse than the insurgency? Breathtaking. The counter-insurgency is an Iraqi military operation but these ethnic death squads are off the reservation types within that. Your accusation is fallacious: US funds them and trains them, thus put them out to do this. That’s false and you have no proof of anything close to it. But that doesn’t stop you making the usually logic-leaving leap of faith to claim so. Pitiful. And drop the name-calling. At best you’re just a howler monkey.
March 12th, 2006 at 5:48 pm
Mark Y., I am so comforted that you believe that…. because if you don’t believe it than it must be so. The administration that has set up prisons all over these countries, and in other countries – and that has tortured innocent people, why, they could not possibly do that. Not people who are responsible for the deaths of at least a hundred thousand innocent people because of this war – I don’t know what I could have been thinking.
Shame on me for even thinking that they “might” be doing something, that they have done in other countries numerous times. Even if the same players who did those things in the past are involved (not just Negroponte), and regardless of whether they hired the same thugs that did this in central and south America. How shocking! I am hanging up my bloging keyboard for good!
P.S. Gee, I thought all those things you called me were terms of endearment, you mean they were not? lol
March 12th, 2006 at 6:15 pm
Mark Y., I have another target for you….oh, my God there are hundreds of news sources who are inferring that very same thing! The government keeps saying it is “the wild bunch” inside of the Ministry of Interior.
Mark, get over to the San Jose Murcury News right away! Because it looks like they might have been having the same thoughts as me….set em straight Markeee. After all, arn’t they the ones that hired that crazy Gary Webb guy who said that the US covert ops. were bringing drugs into the inner cities?
Go get em Mark, they seem disappointed that these fellows in the Interior Minitsry can only find 4 real suspects – for over 7,000 dead and tortured bodies, seems like a stretch…
http://www.murcurynews.com/mld/murcurynews/news/world/1483330.htm
Better hurry Mark Y., you may have to hire an army to wipe out this plague of suspicion that is sweeping the news media around the world!
March 12th, 2006 at 6:28 pm
You’re an idiot.
March 12th, 2006 at 6:31 pm
That would require you to spell: Mercury.
March 12th, 2006 at 6:32 pm
Sorry Mark, I just got so excited regarding your crusade….
March 12th, 2006 at 7:11 pm
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/new/world/1483330.htm
March 12th, 2006 at 7:23 pm
BECAUSE THE CORPORATE STATE HAS ALREADY OVERTHROWN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.” LET THAT SINK IN, AND THAN THINK ABOUT WHAT HAS TAKEN PLACE OVER THE LAST 50 YEARS OR SO.
Virgil–I couldn’t have said it any better!
March 12th, 2006 at 7:38 pm
You’re both nuts. “60 Minutes” piece by Lara Logan was good tonight, but it paints a very different picture than you do on the ground in Tal Afar. I wonde rwho is more credible: you or Logan and Col. McMaster? That’s a tough one.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/10/60minutes/main1389390.shtml
March 12th, 2006 at 7:45 pm
Mark, oh no the Col. is much more reliable. So are all the CIA and FBI who are involved in psyop’s in major corporate news. Yep….much more reliable
March 12th, 2006 at 7:52 pm
Yes oh rubber room candidate. And you’re right, that IS the San Jose paper. Boy can’t slip anything past you can they? Psst…they’re watching…
March 12th, 2006 at 7:59 pm
Military INDUSTRIAL; complex–that was the parting words of a “nut” called Eisenhower–Mark–I guess you purchase every piece of crap sold on T.V.? You are a perfect example of why propaganda is such a useful tool for the government. Maybe, there is a job at the Pentagon waiting for, where the military can test all their BULLSHIT lies and see if you believe them.
March 12th, 2006 at 8:11 pm
Mark, apparently you have not been up on the news lately about U.S. citizens and NSA surveillance – “Psst….they’re watching…” You don’t have to worry about that though – because you are no threat whatsoever.
March 12th, 2006 at 8:18 pm
Here is an interesting article regarding Mr. Fox:
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m21449&l=i&size=1&hd=0
March 12th, 2006 at 8:35 pm
In short, the Christian Peacemaker Teams are a thorn in the side of the brutal occupation.
Et tu, Brute?
March 12th, 2006 at 8:38 pm
I don’t beleive lies from anyone be it Bush et al or you. I think you’re both fruit loops. You should really look close and stop embarrassing yoursellves. It’s sad, frankly.
March 12th, 2006 at 8:41 pm
Marc I said nothing about any other war. Both parties have plenty of blood on their hands.
I simply stated the fact. Clinton had 8 years to remove Saddam and did nothing even though his stated policy was regime change.
I agree Reg Bush 41 abandoned the Iraqis and they remember it well.
I understand that many of you have a completely different world view than me. Several of you (not sure if Marc is included in this group) believe the US government or the shadowy corporate puppeteers control all and manipulate the poor masses for their own means and we are all helpless pawns in their high stakes poker game.
I know you think I am naive, I think you are insane.
Now with that being said the facts remain the same.
Bush removed Saddam and most Iraqis are glad for it. If they win their freedom and safety they will thank him and America for it.
If Iraq is again ruled by despots and murderers they will remember that as well.
I prefer the former and will do everything I can to help that come about. It would be very refreshing if you all did the same if for no other reason to at least maintain some veneer of your self proclaimed liberal ideals.
March 13th, 2006 at 2:04 am
Tom Fox was a brave and honorable man who put his life on the line to defend his beliefs, whatever anyone might think of those beliefs. May he rest in peace.
He was a consistent pacifist, who denied that America was ever justified in the use of force. He opposed the American invasion of Iraq and was an unqualified opponent of the Bush administration.
So why in the name of God did those animals torture and kill him?
Because they understand their opponents very well. They know they are in a fight to the death, and that nothing they can say or do, beyond surrender, can influence Western supporters of this war.
On the other hand, they know that by killing the likes of Tom Fox, they can strengthen the resolve of the war’s Western opponents.
They understand the particular pathology: everything is the fault of the West or the Jews or America. Nothing is THEIR fault.
Take the test. When you heard of Tom Fox’s murder, at whom were you angry? Who did you blame?
EXACTLY.
March 13th, 2006 at 8:06 am
Now that was well said Samuel.
March 13th, 2006 at 10:12 am
“I think you are insane.”
I find that reassuring…
March 13th, 2006 at 10:50 am
Tom Fox was a sheep that went out into the forest to protect the wolves. I am sorry for his death, but am not suprised.
March 13th, 2006 at 5:38 pm
Marc, “a Republican president named Bush turned his back on people inside Iraq who had risen up against Saddam and refused to give them the air cover that might have guaranteed their success without American troops occupying Iraq”
Bush 41 was a wimp. Didn’t you even call him that yourself?
But you can’t complain about Bush 41 following the wimpy advice of his pro-UN advisors, and NOT overthrow Saddam ‘because of the mess’, yet then complain when Bush 43 DOES overthrow Saddam and create the mess (that Pappy avoided). Not without hypocrisy.
Similarly, the murder and real torture of Tom Fox is terrible. But I can’t stop thinking about who, exactly, the anti-war folk want to be running Iraq if the US leaves. Right — the Tox Fox murderers. The anti-war folk support Saddam like torturers to rule Iraq, rather than Bush, or the Bush supported elected Iraqis.
A pathetic choice, I think; but they lie to themselves and say they oppose all evil, yada yada.
March 13th, 2006 at 8:25 pm
I don’t think they support Hussen. Milosovic et al literally. It’s just that they have selected amnesia and a penchant for the Noble Savage myth. It is us that’s the real enemy to them. They only see America as the Great String-puller. As Coolidge said, “The business of America is business.” To those idealistic souls it looks like something more sinister than it really is, if it is at all compared to the alternatives we’ve seen elsewhere.