Comments on: Reaction To Bush Immigration Speech http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/ Mon, 06 Oct 2008 22:44:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: golden rule health insurance http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-575449 golden rule health insurance Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:20:59 +0000 http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-575449 <strong>golden rule health insurance...</strong> I Googled for something completely different, but found your page...and have to say thanks. nice read.... golden rule health insurance…

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]]> By: Affiliate Programs Direct http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-529990 Affiliate Programs Direct Sun, 01 Jul 2007 19:08:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-529990 <strong>keyword...</strong> I don't agree with you in 100%, but you covered some good points regarding this topic... keyword…

I don’t agree with you in 100%, but you covered some good points regarding this topic…

]]> By: flagstaff attorney http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-79269 flagstaff attorney Wed, 09 Aug 2006 19:37:52 +0000 http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-79269 flagstaff attorney <a href="http://flagstaff-attorney.sinfree.net" rel="nofollow">flagstaff attorney</a> flagstaff attorney flagstaff attorney

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]]> By: Kris (a dirt poor person) http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-41131 Kris (a dirt poor person) Sat, 20 May 2006 14:02:09 +0000 http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-41131 I hope people who have not voted will be so pissed about what how awful the bush administration has treat the poor and middle classes and will get up off the couch and cast their ballot in 2008. He makes me sick. He spends all of our hard earned money on his religous agenda. I would rather have a president who at least tried to do his job and didn't have to brag every ten seconds about how moral he is.(n't) I hope people who have not voted will be so pissed about what how awful the bush administration has treat the poor and middle classes and will get up off the couch and cast their ballot in 2008.
He makes me sick. He spends all of our hard earned money on his religous agenda.
I would rather have a president who at least tried to do his job and didn’t have to brag every ten seconds about how moral he is.(n’t)

]]> By: Tom Grey - Liberty Dad http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39384 Tom Grey - Liberty Dad Wed, 17 May 2006 20:28:37 +0000 http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39384 The Guest Worker program works great if there is a forced savings component which is returned to the worker -- when he returns home. The huge problem is that US capitalism has been so successful at growing the US economy. Yet Mexican regulation and corruption, and the anti-business culture, has been such a failure at growing the Mexican economy. The US can't solve the Mexican problem, so every smart, hard working Mexican will want to come to America for a better life. Until: it gets too hard to get in (build the fence, patrol the border), there are no jobs for the illegals (Bush has good biometric based ID requirements, unfortunately only for the legals), ... so that illegal life in the US is not much better than life in Mexico. The humane way is to hire more Mexicans in Mexico to work, but no Leftists are interested in that -- that would require supporting business. And Marc thinks business, the peaceful organizations which offer jobs to poor people, Marc thinks they're the enemy. Bah. The Guest Worker program works great if there is a forced savings component which is returned to the worker — when he returns home.

The huge problem is that US capitalism has been so successful at growing the US economy. Yet Mexican regulation and corruption, and the anti-business culture, has been such a failure at growing the Mexican economy.

The US can’t solve the Mexican problem, so every smart, hard working Mexican will want to come to America for a better life.

Until: it gets too hard to get in (build the fence, patrol the border),
there are no jobs for the illegals (Bush has good biometric based ID requirements, unfortunately only for the legals),
…
so that illegal life in the US is not much better than life in Mexico.

The humane way is to hire more Mexicans in Mexico to work, but no Leftists are interested in that — that would require supporting business. And Marc thinks business, the peaceful organizations which offer jobs to poor people, Marc thinks they’re the enemy.

Bah.

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39253 RcerX Wed, 17 May 2006 04:16:37 +0000 http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39253 Sorry I meant NAFTA - I got my acronyms mixed up! Ooops Sorry I meant NAFTA - I got my acronyms mixed up! Ooops

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39234 RcerX Wed, 17 May 2006 02:17:16 +0000 http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39234 Just to switch up the North-South debate, there was an interesting article in either the New York Post or Daily News (I can't seem to find the link) about the decline of modern Irish immigrants in NYC - many here illegally, are choosing to return to Ireland, but the number one reason was because Irish econonmy is booming, the second reason is the crackdown on undocumented immigrants. The risk thusly, being bigger than the reward. I agree with Marc that a half million increase, along with a fair and equitable distribution of quotas would benefit us all. America needs to re-examine NARAL and it's effectiveness to our neighbors down south and work to establish fairer trade policies and yes invest in these countries. While we're bickering with Venezuala over the politics of its freely elected leader, China is swooping in neogiating for better oil prices and finding ways to increase trade. Brazil is starting to look like a bright spot in the South American economy with taking such innovative approaches like converting to sugar based ethnol and ways to increase small businesses in some its most remote areas. The global economy is here you cannot restrict businesses from setting up shop in other countries and not expect their people not to immigrate to places where the living conditions are more favorable. At the same time you cannot continue to argue that poor people deserve to come here while ignoring the conditons that drove them to leave otherwise, despite the increase in quotas there will still be an active undocumented market. One only has to look at Cuba to see how effective a closed market open immigration policy has been - when things get hot for Castro, he just opens the escape valve. Labor needs to be re-invigorated however one million people vs. millions of underemployed and another group that has not been discussed here those umeployed that no longer receive goverment assistance is not going to do it. I would definitely like to hear what it might take to unite American workers with the undocumented, I admit I'm stumped on that one. And New to Blogs (race has been brought up in Marc's earlier blogs) and NeoDude it's as simple as it coming down to race. All you have to do is read some of the papers in Miami and Puerto Rico to know that there are plenty of "brown" people who have strong views against immigration. Oh daughers and sons of the trickle down theory - It's about class and the decline of labor as Marc illustrated and the business class seeking greater profits - race is just the smoke screen. Just to switch up the North-South debate, there was an interesting article in either the New York Post or Daily News (I can’t seem to find the link) about the decline of modern Irish immigrants in NYC - many here illegally, are choosing to return to Ireland, but the number one reason was because Irish econonmy is booming, the second reason is the crackdown on undocumented immigrants. The risk thusly, being bigger than the reward.
I agree with Marc that a half million increase, along with a fair and equitable distribution of quotas would benefit us all. America needs to re-examine NARAL and it’s effectiveness to our neighbors down south and work to establish fairer trade policies and yes invest in these countries. While we’re bickering with Venezuala over the politics of its freely elected leader, China is swooping in neogiating for better oil prices and finding ways to increase trade. Brazil is starting to look like a bright spot in the South American economy with taking such innovative approaches like converting to sugar based ethnol and ways to increase small businesses in some its most remote areas.
The global economy is here you cannot restrict businesses from setting up shop in other countries and not expect their people not to immigrate to places where the living conditions are more favorable. At the same time you cannot continue to argue that poor people deserve to come here while ignoring the conditons that drove them to leave otherwise, despite the increase in quotas there will still be an active undocumented market. One only has to look at Cuba to see how effective a closed market open immigration policy has been - when things get hot for Castro, he just opens the escape valve.
Labor needs to be re-invigorated however one million people vs. millions of underemployed and another group that has not been discussed here those umeployed that no longer receive goverment assistance is not going to do it. I would definitely like to hear what it might take to unite American workers with the undocumented, I admit I’m stumped on that one.
And New to Blogs (race has been brought up in Marc’s earlier blogs) and NeoDude it’s as simple as it coming down to race. All you have to do is read some of the papers in Miami and Puerto Rico to know that there are plenty of “brown” people who have strong views against immigration. Oh daughers and sons of the trickle down theory - It’s about class and the decline of labor as Marc illustrated and the business class seeking greater profits - race is just the smoke screen.

]]> By: Matt http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39219 Matt Wed, 17 May 2006 00:50:09 +0000 http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39219 Whoops--I found the part of Bush's speech where he said that the Guard would not be involved directly in law enforcement. I still tend to wonder how true this will hold in a busy Border Patrol post, though... Whoops–I found the part of Bush’s speech where he said that the Guard would not be involved directly in law enforcement. I still tend to wonder how true this will hold in a busy Border Patrol post, though…

]]> By: Ann http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39217 Ann Wed, 17 May 2006 00:40:52 +0000 http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39217 JC, Immigrants today are doing a much better job at assimalating then previous waves of immigrants. Most want to learn english and in fact most do learn english very quickly. I don't know a Hispanic person who was born here or grew up here that doesn't speak english, but according to my grandfather there were plenty of children of German immigrants who were born in the states that couldn't speak english and this was true of many of the children of european immigrants. JC, Immigrants today are doing a much better job at assimalating then previous waves of immigrants. Most want to learn english and in fact most do learn english very quickly. I don’t know a Hispanic person who was born here or grew up here that doesn’t speak english, but according to my grandfather there were plenty of children of German immigrants who were born in the states that couldn’t speak english and this was true of many of the children of european immigrants.

]]> By: JC http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39193 JC Tue, 16 May 2006 20:25:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39193 BRAVO, Ed, for your comment dated May 15th, 2006 at 11:46 pm! I am all for immigration, but also for ASSIMILATION and giving back to the community. Also, don't forget about the cleptocrats that come here after stealing and misdirecting treasury funds from their starving compatriots. These egotistical scam artists are not only destroying the moral fabric of our society, they are influencing our governing class...wait a minute...they are our governing class!!!! With regards to the Hispanics, it would seem to me that we are not assimilating them, they are assimilating us. Pretty soon this blog will be in Spanish! Can someone please research and summarize Mexico's immigration laws here? BRAVO, Ed, for your comment dated May 15th, 2006 at 11:46 pm! I am all for immigration, but also for ASSIMILATION and giving back to the community. Also, don’t forget about the cleptocrats that come here after stealing and misdirecting treasury funds from their starving compatriots. These egotistical scam artists are not only destroying the moral fabric of our society, they are influencing our governing class…wait a minute…they are our governing class!!!!

With regards to the Hispanics, it would seem to me that we are not assimilating them, they are assimilating us. Pretty soon this blog will be in Spanish!

Can someone please research and summarize Mexico’s immigration laws here?

]]> By: Matt http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39192 Matt Tue, 16 May 2006 20:25:01 +0000 http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39192 Hi, Marc. Thanks for this excellent post. My name's Matt Borus, and I blog on <a href="http://www.jspot.org" rel="nofollow">Jspot</a>, a progressive Jewish blog. I had one question for you. You wrote <i> "They will be barred from patrolling the border itself, as well as from confronting, apprehending or even guarding the undocumented.”</i> I may have just missed a detail in Bush's speech, but did he say this? If not, where does it come from? I ask because one big concern I have with this is that the presence of the Guard on the border will lead to tragedies like the killing of Ezequiel Hernandez, a teenager who was shot by Marines doing a drug patrol ont he border in 1997. And I have to wonder, even if this is official policy, will it be enforced? If an office is overbrudened and there are Guard troops there, isn’t there a good likelihood that they will be used for direct patrols? Or if they’re doing surveillance and come into contact with immigrants, won’t they interact directly with them? Thanks for the info. And if anyone's interested, you can see some of my comments on the matter <a href="http://jspot.org/?p=243" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Hi, Marc. Thanks for this excellent post. My name’s Matt Borus, and I blog on Jspot, a progressive Jewish blog. I had one question for you.

You wrote
“They will be barred from patrolling the border itself, as well as from confronting, apprehending or even guarding the undocumented.”

I may have just missed a detail in Bush’s speech, but did he say this? If not, where does it come from?

I ask because one big concern I have with this is that the presence of the Guard on the border will lead to tragedies like the killing of Ezequiel Hernandez, a teenager who was shot by Marines doing a drug patrol ont he border in 1997. And I have to wonder, even if this is official policy, will it be enforced? If an office is overbrudened and there are Guard troops there, isn’t there a good likelihood that they will be used for direct patrols? Or if they’re doing surveillance and come into contact with immigrants, won’t they interact directly with them?

Thanks for the info. And if anyone’s interested, you can see some of my comments on the matter here.

]]> By: evets http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39191 evets Tue, 16 May 2006 20:10:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39191 Marc - No-one (on this site at least) would argue about unfair labor competition if the immigrants under discussion were legal and their numbers were determined through the democratic process. The analogy to competition provided by legal immigrants in the past, or by ex-slaves seems disingenuous. All would agree that such competition is fair (though obviously those competing at the time resented it). While the new energy in the union movement is a positive unintended consequence, that's not sufficient reason to dismiss concerns over illegal immigration. Is it certain that this energizing wouldn't have occurred otherwise? Is it possible that the flow of illegal immigrants into our labor markets helped create the conditions which prompted this rejuvenation? Marc -

No-one (on this site at least) would argue about unfair labor competition if the immigrants under discussion were legal and their numbers were determined through the democratic process. The analogy to competition provided by legal immigrants in the past, or by ex-slaves seems disingenuous. All would agree that such competition is fair (though obviously those competing at the time resented it). While the new energy in the union movement is a positive unintended consequence, that’s not sufficient reason to dismiss concerns over illegal immigration. Is it certain that this energizing wouldn’t have occurred otherwise? Is it possible that the flow of illegal immigrants into our labor markets helped create the conditions which prompted this rejuvenation?

]]> By: Jake Elmore http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39190 Jake Elmore Tue, 16 May 2006 19:35:02 +0000 http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39190 reg is right. If the employers had to do what public agencies do when signing on ne whelp it would be no problem: you have to prove citizenship two ways. reg is right. If the employers had to do what public agencies do when signing on ne whelp it would be no problem: you have to prove citizenship two ways.

]]> By: Jake Elmore http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39189 Jake Elmore Tue, 16 May 2006 19:32:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39189 "and Im supposed to worry that this is crippling the American working class?" In a word yes. As for the swiftboat captain he wasn't arrested for drunk driving like Hazelwood and Bush were. Why would you surprised the ship has run aground? I'm not. I said it happen if he was elected and it has. Woody remembers just enough history to hang himself every time. “and Im supposed to worry that this is crippling the American working class?”

In a word yes.

As for the swiftboat captain he wasn’t arrested for drunk driving like Hazelwood and Bush were. Why would you surprised the ship has run aground? I’m not. I said it happen if he was elected and it has. Woody remembers just enough history to hang himself every time.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39187 reg Tue, 16 May 2006 18:22:59 +0000 http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39187 Jesus...another grand bit of myopia and refusal to acknowledge the practical arguments that have been laid out here. If you want to stop the flood of illegal immigrants (assuming you acknowledge it's even a problem), do it at the source - the workplace - by putting into place a smart electronic SS card and putting the focus of enforcement on the industries that are the locus of the problem. I've said this time and again, and of course you accuse me of not offering anything resembling a solution. As for legal immigration, I'm for increasing it in response to real labor shortages that aren't based on wage depressioin. But unless and until apologists for illegal immigration and wholesale violations of labor law by major employers cut out the "jobs Americans won't do" bullshit - based on unbridled and deliberate violations of basic labor law - I refuse to even debate this end of it. It's a canard and a smokescreen for the worst labor practices. The truth is that by attacking someone such as myself - who is willing to embrace normalization of our existing workforce in its entirety as long as some teeth are put into future enforcement that's actually feasible and we begin to hold employers responsible for their practices - you end up on the same side of this issue as the most retrograde elements in American capitalism. Your little sermon on the historical and the painfully obvious has all of the depth and integrity of a Tom Friedman homily on globalization. The way to maintain - as best we can - a workforce that doesn't have seperations and conflicts built into it is to try to keep the playing field as level as possible (obviously a failed exercise in many respects). Unfortunately, reality dictates that the only even marginally effective way we can do this is by exercising our political rights and responsibilities as citizens. Our political power as average people - not business moguls - stops at the border, whether we like it or not. But by siding with groups like The Business Roundtable on "guest workers" and effusing glibly about erosion of national boundaries and the rest of it, you are moving precisely in the opposite direction of greater fragmentation of our labor markets. Jesus…another grand bit of myopia and refusal to acknowledge the practical arguments that have been laid out here. If you want to stop the flood of illegal immigrants (assuming you acknowledge it’s even a problem), do it at the source - the workplace - by putting into place a smart electronic SS card and putting the focus of enforcement on the industries that are the locus of the problem. I’ve said this time and again, and of course you accuse me of not offering anything resembling a solution. As for legal immigration, I’m for increasing it in response to real labor shortages that aren’t based on wage depressioin. But unless and until apologists for illegal immigration and wholesale violations of labor law by major employers cut out the “jobs Americans won’t do” bullshit - based on unbridled and deliberate violations of basic labor law - I refuse to even debate this end of it. It’s a canard and a smokescreen for the worst labor practices. The truth is that by attacking someone such as myself - who is willing to embrace normalization of our existing workforce in its entirety as long as some teeth are put into future enforcement that’s actually feasible and we begin to hold employers responsible for their practices - you end up on the same side of this issue as the most retrograde elements in American capitalism.

Your little sermon on the historical and the painfully obvious has all of the depth and integrity of a Tom Friedman homily on globalization. The way to maintain - as best we can - a workforce that doesn’t have seperations and conflicts built into it is to try to keep the playing field as level as possible (obviously a failed exercise in many respects). Unfortunately, reality dictates that the only even marginally effective way we can do this is by exercising our political rights and responsibilities as citizens. Our political power as average people - not business moguls - stops at the border, whether we like it or not. But by siding with groups like The Business Roundtable on “guest workers” and effusing glibly about erosion of national boundaries and the rest of it, you are moving precisely in the opposite direction of greater fragmentation of our labor markets.

]]> By: Lynn http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39185 Lynn Tue, 16 May 2006 18:01:59 +0000 http://marccooper.com/reaction-to-bush-immigration-speech/#comment-39185 Michael Balter said: "btw I would like to see some interviews with Border Patrol agents about their views on all these NG troops coming their way. Just a wild guess, but they might be spending most of their time trying to figure out what to do with these guys, freeing up the border for transgression. " The CBS affiliate in San Diego, reported today in a story about reaction to Bush plan for National Guard the following: KFMB TV Last Updated: 05-16-06 at 8:30AM The union that represents Border Patrol agents is speaking out against the president's plan for the border. The group's vice president issued a statement Monday night: "We feel this is window dressing. This administration has not been able to get anything right about the border. Americans shouldn't expect otherwise with this measure. We've had the National Guard working on the border in some support capacity for the last 15-years and the president's new plan just seems to be a ploy to get his temporary guest-worker program passed." Michael Balter said: “btw I would like to see some interviews with Border Patrol agents about their views on all these NG troops coming their way. Just a wild guess, but they might be spending most of their time trying to figure out what to do with these guys, freeing up the border for transgression. ”

The CBS affiliate in San Diego, reported today in a story about reaction to Bush plan for National Guard the following:

KFMB TV
Last Updated:
05-16-06 at 8:30AM

The union that represents Border Patrol agents is speaking out against the president’s plan for the border.

The group’s vice president issued a statement Monday night:
“We feel this is window dressing. This administration has not been able to get anything right about the border. Americans shouldn’t expect otherwise with this measure. We’ve had the National Guard working on the border in some support capacity for the last 15-years and the president’s new plan just seems to be a ploy to get his temporary guest-worker program passed.”

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