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Darn Eleanore, you do have a very good humorous side. I just saved this one for future strategic use.

I have an overly developed conscience, so I need to accept any share of potential responsibility. It’s this Jim that originally proposed ‘Jail time for Journalist”, and actual believed it……at the time. Now, after reading Dan O’s comments, I’m thinking about recompiling my software.

OF COURSE journalists will go to jail (if they don’t give up the leakers who gave out national security secrets). They should. Journalism is no more a sacred priesthood (than the priesthood). No matter how much Journalists would like you to believe they are morally superior beings without partisan interests.”

Jim,
Do you really believe this crap or are you just doing an Archie Bunker imitation?

Please. There’s about as much chance of that as a Richard Simmons junior.

In the Plame Case the NYT argued for months that a special prosecutor must be called to investigate this “serious” breach of national security, so one was. They didn’t like what it got them. Oh well.

If you leak serious secrets that get people killed, you can and should go to jail. Simple as that. Stories detailing who and where we have people incarcerated abroad (who I might remind you want to kill Americans) jeapordize our cooperation with allies where we have interrogation centers. The same goes for disclosure of measures used to eavesdrop on communication to and from bin Laden’s centers and the United States.

The media and Dems have a childish and naive on the bordering on the foolish idea of the world. As if the entire globe was filled with Hyatts and Hiltons and “colorful” people who don’t mean us any harm. Outside the US there is no law. No Supreme Court to appeal to (ask Daniel Pearl or the 9/11 families who they can appeal the deaths handed out to their loved ones by Al Qaeda). Nothing but what sticks at the point of a gun.

OF COURSE journalists will go to jail (if they don’t give up the leakers who gave out national security secrets). They should. Journalism is no more a sacred priesthood (than the priesthood). No matter how much Journalists would like you to believe they are morally superior beings without partisan interests.

Virgil — If we had had data mining ala Able Danger (or the program not shut down by Clinton and leads followed up) 9/11 would never have happened. Bush would have been a one term President, and the Taliban and Saddam would still be happily killing people. Isn’t that what you want?

Data mining works. It’s how Amazon makes money. You may not be interested in Islamic terrorism, but Islamic Terrorism is interested in YOU. Apologies to Trotsky. Or did the jihad in UNC, the protests in NYC (“Islam will DOMINATE”) escape you.

Your choice is fight, or submit and convert to Islam. That’s it.

The point of the solidarity is to be resolute in looking for terrorists – they may come by sea….my uncle told me how they used to look for the Russians at the beach….we have about as much of a chance finding them, as the government has tapping your phone or rummaging through your bank records, or whatever….to find them. This is all simply incredible – beyond gullibility (hey, that sounds like a good toast).

And of course if it’s misused, that’s bad and sets the whole debate off in another direction.

Who were the two FISA judges they told, and why those two? (And is there a link?)

Actually: what procedure were they following in telling two FISA judges that they were going to be doing this process avoiding the FISA process? Odd as it may sound, I’m not sure what the requirements would be in this situation.

Were the Democrats in the Gang of 8 acquiescent at all because they thought the FISA judges had been notified and okayed it? If W implied or told the 8 that FISA was okay with this, and not included the fact (if it is) that only 2 were told, that would be bad.

Every breath you take, and every move you make, every bond you break, every step you take, I’ll be watching you, every single day, and every word you say, every game you play, every night you stay, I’ll be watching you.
BREAKING NEWS—NSA has been spying on Americans since WWII. The only difference is that the technology is better. NSA was created for code-making and code-breaking. In 1952, President Truman issued a secret directive “Communications Intelligence Activities,” which established the NSA

There is TERROR everywhere, there are no borders to contain it, there is no time when we can predicts its end; it’s just a continuous amorphous enemy that we must be vigilant against. If this anxiety was professed by any individual, you would probably conclude he was paranoid. Unfortunately, this individual is our President. And how long does he say, we will be in this state of war against terror: “for as long as the nation faces the continuing treat of an enemy that wants to kill American citizens.” Well if that’s the case, we better prepare ourselves for one hell-uv-a-ride! BECAUSE THE WAR WILL NEVER EVER END! And because of this so-called war against TERROR, our government can pass with ease oppressive legislation in the guise of YOUR PROTECTION! Do you want someone who is incapable of discerning legitimate intelligence to spy on you ?

Bush has stated that the information gathered on Iraq was false : “It is true that much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong.”

If ANYONE CAN BE SPIED ON AT ANY TIME; there is a good possibility that errors of mistaken identity will be made!

WHO WILL ULTIMATELY DECIDE WHAT TERROR IS?
Is terror a political activist?
Is terror a natural disaster?
Is terror a pandemic?
Is terror a right wing nut case who needs to peddle his BS propaganda at another website.

How will all these laws designed to protect Americans ultimately be used against Americans? We will soon find out!

Everything in our government seems to be such a big secret—we have secret courts, secret judges, secret detention centers, and even secrets that are too secret to tell the secret FISA Judges. Twice in the past four years, a top Justice Department lawyer warned the presiding judge of a secret surveillance court that information overheard in President Bush’s eavesdropping program may have been improperly used to obtain wiretap warrants in the court.

As it turns out only two of the twelve FISA Judges of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court were briefed by the administration on Bush’s surveillance program. The president’s secret order, issued sometime after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, allows the National Security Agency to monitor telephone calls and e-mails between people in the United States and contacts overseas.
This surprised and dismayed U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly — who, like her predecessor, Royce C. Lamberth, had expressed serious doubts about whether the warrantless monitoring of phone calls and e-mails ordered by Bush was legal. Both judges had insisted that no information obtained this way be used to gain warrants from their court, supposedly they were assured by the administration that this does not happen.
It was discovered in 2004 that the government failed to share information about its spying program and had rendered useless a “federal screening system” that the judges had insisted upon to shield the court from tainted information. Kollar-Kotelly, who complained, was prompting a temporary suspension of the NSA spying program.
In another problem in 2005 a warrant application prompted Kollar-Kotelly to issue a stern order to government lawyers to create a “better firewall” or face more difficulty obtaining warrants. The FISA court secretly grants warrants for wiretaps, telephone record traces and physical searches to the Justice Department, whose lawyers must show they have probable cause to believe that a person in the United States is the agent of a foreign power or government. Between 1979 and 2004, it approved 18,748 warrants and rejected only five. SO HOW DIFFICULT WOULD IT BE FOR BUSH TO GET A LEGITMATE WARRANT?
And now Both presiding judges agreed to KEEP A REALLY BIG SECRET, not to disclose the real secret program to the 10 other FISA judges, who routinely handled some of the government’s most highly classified secrets.

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OUR GOVERNMENT’S DIRTY LITTLE SECRET: GUANTANAMO BAY
IS THIS ANOTHER JAPANESE DETERMENT CAMP?
Lawyers for two detainees being held at the US detention camp at Guantanamo Bay say that over half of the terror suspects being held there are not alleged to have committed terrorist acts against the U.S. or its allies or even to be members of terrorist organizations. Currently only 10 Guantanamo detainees have been formally charged with crimes and will face military tribunals.
In the first year and a half that the prison existed, 18 captives engaged in 28 suicide attempts. In August of 2003 there was a mass suicide attempt—nearly two dozen prisoners tried to hang themselves in their cells with clothing or other items during an eight-day period. There were an additional 350 incidents where captives tried to harm themselves. The following is a summary of an FBI Interview describing the psychological state of detainees:
“The mental condition of the detainees is to the point where the detainees are all participating in a hunger strike. The detainees are upset with the way they are being held as prisoners without being charged with a crime or released. The detainees think America is intentionally keeping people in custody for no other reason than as an attack on Muslims. The detainees are going to strike by not eating food and not drinking water more than absolutely necessary. If one person starts a strike then all of the men will follow. Some over a six day period have not taken more than three ounces of water per day nor have eaten. They want to be charged with a crime or released.”
Hunger striking Guantanamo Bay detainees are being strapped to chairs for hours to force-feed them through tubes. Amnesty International renewed its call for international medical experts to be allowed to visit the strikers. Detainees being force-fed are also restrained to stop them vomiting after feeding and placed in solitary confinement for extended periods to stop them from drawing encouragement from each other.
They said that according to the documents only 8% were classed as al-Qaeda fighters and 60 prisoners “are detained merely because they are ‘associated with’ a group or groups the U.S. government asserts are terrorist organizations”.
There was a report which suggests that some of the detainees were caught by people seeking US bounties.
The camp was set up in 2002 to hold foreign terror suspects, many of them captured in Afghanistan. It currently houses around 500. The Administration has used the term “enemy combatant” as a clear attempt to circumvent protections provided to prisoners of war under the Geneva Convention and due to all detainees under international law. These foreign nationals can be charged with crimes and tried before a military commission that is not based on US federal law or the Uniform Code of Military Justice. These commissions, created by executive order, have been criticized by human rights organizations and legal experts around the world as lacking in due process and not meeting minimum international fair trial standards.

THE PATRIOT ACT A SECRET WAY TO WATCH YOU !
A proposed change in the amended Patriot Act would clarify that ONLY libraries that are “electronic service providers” could be required to provide information to government agents as part of a terrorist investigation. So what does that really mean? A form of secret subpoena known as a National Security Letter could no longer be used to obtain records from libraries that function “in their traditional capacity, including providing basic Internet access,” BUT libraries that are “Internet service providers” would remain subject to the letters. Virtually ALL libraries supply Internet access and are part of a consortium, so ALL libraries would still remain subject to section 215 of the Patriot Act. SO DOESN’T THIS SOUND LIKE A CONVULUTED STATEMENT, WHICH BASICALLY SAYS THAT WE’RE STILL SPYING ON YOU?
The Senate proposal would no longer require National Security Letter recipients to tell the FBI the identity of their lawyers—big deal how long would it take the FBI to find out a recipients attorney—aren’t they already listening to their phone conversations and reading their e-mail?
The compromise bill also addresses “Section 215 subpoenas,” which are granted by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court. Recipients of such subpoenas originally were forbidden to tell anyone about the action. The proposed Senate measure allows the “gag order” to be challenged after one year–so now you have to wait one year to challenge the gag order.
The Patriot Act still does not require agents to “show a connection to a suspected terrorist or spy” before obtaining a Section 215 subpoena. A FISA judge would have to agree that there are “reasonable grounds” to believe the items being sought are relevant to an investigation into terrorism. THE FISA COURT HAS ALREADY ISSUED 18,748 warrants and rejected only five.
The White House agreed to only a few minor changes that only benefit them and does not address any of the major issues regarding the lawlessness of warrantless domestic spying.
Total Information Awareness
The TIA uses data mining and other techniques to search all types of databases to determine an individual’s financial transactions, telephone calls, credit and debit card purchases, travel, TV viewing, health history, driving record, etc. The data may constitute a virtual central file that can be used to delve into the life of anyone. These data can be combined with biometric information, video surveillance data, and Radio Frequency Identification Chips to compile a history of a person’s life and movements.
Radio Frequency Identification Chip
The Radio Frequency Identification Chip (RFID) is one of the new technologies. Chips can be imbedded in a variety of products to identify and track physical objects, such as currency, bearer bonds, appliances, food cans, automobiles, etc. RFIDs also can be imbedded in drivers’ licenses and medical information smart cards and bracelets. RFID chips are smaller than a hair and a grain of sand. These chips listen for a query and respond by transmitting a unique code chips can track any movement of an object. Some libraries are placing them into library books.

ONE OF BUSH’S BEST KEPT SECRETS– WE ARE SURENDERING OUR DEMOCRACY TO SECRET GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS!
The natural state of mankind … and I know that this is a controversial idea… is freedom… And the proof is the lengths to which a man, woman, or child will go to regain it once lost. He will break loose his chains. He will decimate his enemies. He will try and try and try again, against all odds, against all prejudices.”
– “John Quincy Adams