Strange and Stranger
Flash: Michael Jackson is still dead.
Meanwhile, an individual who arguably had more impact than the King of Pop on arguably more lives of others has also died: Robert Strange McNamara (yes, that’s his real name). 
I have to say, I’d much rather turn on CNN tonight and watch an hour retrospective on the legacy of McNamara and Vietnam than I would watching a babbling Anderson Cooper “keepin’ em honest” as he does a perpetual promo for Tuesday’s “news” broadcast from the Staples Center. (How does someone who speaks over himself and mangles his own sentences like Cooper does become such a big TV personality?”.
As for Michael Jackson, I shed not a single tear for the passing of McNamara. But I found the latter infinitely more interesting an individual. Then again, unlike several young boys, I never had the pleasure of spending any alone time with The King.
But about a decade ago I did an hour live radio interview with McNamara. For me, it’s a career highlight. Not because he was a hard “get.” On the contrary, he was on a book publicity tour and was eager to sit for anybody. But I found McNamara to be immeasurably nuanced and possessed of quite a brilliant mind and it’s an hour’s worth of talk I will never forget.
I had nor do I have any intention of setting aside his grotesque crimes of war. He was, indeed, one of the prime architects of the Vietnamese Holocaust — responsible for the deaths of 3 million people (58,000 of them Americans). But I found him completely willing to explore that subject without hesitation. Yes, he was engaged in a strange sort of mea culpa. It was odd, because he was openly willing to fully assimilate and accept and enunciate the policy and political lessons derived from the debacle of Vietnam but not quite as willing to accept full personal responsibility (I don’t know how you do that in any case, when you have the weight of 3 million souls on your conscience).
But it was an in-depth discussion (the recording of which I will try to unearth as it is not on the web). I will mention, in passing, that at the time of the interview I was excoriated by the frothier factions of the Knucklehead Left for not angrily denouncing McNamara to his face. Apparently, talking to the man and trying to understand what led him to commit the horrendous crimes he did was in itself some sort of war crime.
A few years later, Errol Morris did one of his docs on McNamara. I reviewed Fog of War and found it rather foggy. I thought Morris’ film, while highly stylized, was founded only on a scant sort of interview with McNamara and that a real opportunity had been lost. Morris’ questions were lazy and too few, shouted eerily from somewhere offstage.
Understanding McNamara, ultimately, is not about forgiving him or absolving him. Rather, it’s about understanding our own collective national political psyche and the mechanisms we employ to blithely justify everything from torture to mass murder.
Too bad Anderson Cooper never took a crack at keeping Bob McNamara honest.
July 6th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
McNamara is an example of what happens when you get the brightest instead of the best. He ran up a long history of disasters, from Vietnam to his absurd decisions at the world bank, to his seeking forgiveness from the evil bastards he originally opposed.
He was truly a man of the modern elite – smart but dumb as a rock; willing to make huge decisions but not take responsibility for the terrible outcomes; arrogant that he knew better, until he got old and realized he didn’t (too late for his victims).
July 6th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
And here is my man and friend John Chuckman
“McNamara may be the greatest modern example of the banality of evil.
He was, in his heyday, a dry, boring man with the appearance of a corporate executive who taught Baptist Sunday School classes.
He was very bright and energetic, but dry and boring, driven by an insane need for success and with no evident ethical standards beyond those associated with the ferociously ambitious.
The United States, under his advice and that of others like McGeorge Bundy, created the greatest holocaust since that of World War II.
An estimated three million Vietnamese were killed, many of them suffering horrible deaths from napalm and early versions of cluster bombs.
Carpet bombing by B-52s made parts of that poor country resemble the surface of the moon.
Left behind were millions of pounds of the hideous Agent Orange oozing through the ground to cause birth defects for perhaps centuries.
Left behind too were hundreds of thousands of land mines to cripple and kill farmers for decades after.
The reason for this horror? The Vietnamese were fighting a civil war and the side with the wrong economic beliefs was winning.
Of course, it also relates to America’s penchant for obsessions, its Captain Ahab drive to chase and kill the great whale.
In the 1960s, it was communism.
Today it’s Islamic fundamentalism.
In his later years, McNamara was a sad figure. He very much did come to regret his role. He was almost driven by the ghosts of all those dead souls”
July 6th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/71328.html
The most bizarre incident involving McNamara occurred when he was president of the World Bank and, off on his summer holiday, he caught the Martha’s Vineyard ferry. It was a night crossing in bad weather. McNamara was in the salon, drink in hand, schmoozing with fellow passengers. On the deck outside a vineyard local, a hippie artist, glanced through the window and did a double-take. The artist was outraged to see McNamara, whom he viewed as a war criminal, so enjoying himself.
He immediately opened the door and told McNamara there was a radiophone call for him on the bridge. McNamara set down his drink and stepped outside. The artist immediately grabbed him, wrestled him to the railing and pushed him over the side. McNamara managed to get his fingers through the holes in the metal plate that ran from the top of the railing to the scuppers.
McNamara was screaming bloody murder; the artist was prying his fingers loose one at a time. Someone heard the racket and raced out and pulled the artist off.
By the time the ferry docked in the vineyard McNamara had decided against filing charges against the artist, and he was freed and walked away.
July 6th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
“As for Michael Jackson, I shed not a single tear for the passing of McNamara. But I found the latter infinitely more interesting an individual. Then again, unlike several young boys, I never had the pleasure of spending any alone time with The King.”
Sigh how many times can one man make the same point? Are you in some kind of competition with Sergio’s nemesis on this front? And since you keep bringing it up can I ask a question out of curiosity? Were you, at all, a fan of the music and did it frame some part of your life? If the answer to these questuons is no, and that would be fair enough, then surely it explains why you may be a bit out of touch in terms of what’s going on
July 6th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
Ahmed
The answer to ur question is: as many times as I feel like it, ok? Or, at least, I reserve the right to continue expressing the thought as long as the mass national hysteria over this palook’s death continues. Here in L.A. it has reached frightening proportions. We cancelled class tomorrow at USC even though it is 4 miles from Staples Center as all streets will be shut down by several hundred thousand goofballs weeping over the death of a freak zillionaire. Surely there must be something or someone better to expend such sympathy upon.
July 7th, 2009 at 1:14 am
ahmed
yes there is a reason to make the point over and over. the people protesting in iran. the people who are resisting the coup in honduras.
those people deserve our respect much more than MJ. i mean the man’s lyrics were trite. (read aloud the lyrics to beat it or bad). i liked michael jackson when i was 8 and then i grew up.
July 7th, 2009 at 5:47 am
I never liked Jackson after the 1970s. I lived through the 1980s. and his (and many others’) corporate music made that shitty decade even worse. He’s also a freak zillionaire.
But who cares what I think?
It’s Marc’s blog, Ahmed.
July 7th, 2009 at 6:28 am
The last day till wheezing irrelevant pop culture assfuck Michael dies a miserable and lonely death.
One down and one to go Serge.
It must have been especially gratifying one less zillionaire capitalist pig lives on the same earth with unsuccessful struggling proletariat.
July 7th, 2009 at 6:37 am
If only Marx could have his dream, we would all be unsuccessful struggling proletariat…..and learn to appreciate the equality of our daily dipper of gruel.
July 7th, 2009 at 7:23 am
Sergio who wishes death on compulsive, obssesive gringo commentators now tries to teach me a lesson on etiquette. Right. Marc has, with the exception of a swipe at some nameless contingent in the so called “knucklehead left”, a good post up about McNamara and I wouldnt want to derail the discussion or go back to Jackson, which ironically has been the focus of three blog posts here already. So back to regular programming
ps neither sergio nor reg can dance
July 7th, 2009 at 7:30 am
That fella with the Sta-Combe in his hair? Yessir, he was a smart one.
July 7th, 2009 at 7:32 am
Some very good, nay brilliant, and somber coverage coming from the knucklehead left
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/7/7/vietnam_war_architect_robert_mcnamara_dies
July 7th, 2009 at 7:37 am
Howard Zinn btw is pitch perfect, morally serious and fucking brilliant in that interview. Now he is a national treasure of immense proportion, something Im sure me and Sergio can agree on
July 7th, 2009 at 7:45 am
Nice bit on MacNamara.
There is a harrowing, true incident that took place on the ferry between Woodshole and Martha’s Vineyard between a grief maddened brother and MacNamara. A Vineyard resident, Viet vet and whose brother was killed in the war was on the same ferry as MacNamara. The guy tried to throw MacNamara overboard. In another culture or country this guys act would have got him a statue erected in his honor.
The most stunning moment in the Morris doc was when MacNamara was talking about the man who immolated himself outside his office window. It was after that he reveals that his wife went to pieces. It seems she was carrying the guilt he refused to bear.
I viewed that doc in a class at UCLA and wrote a furious critique of it to the lecturer.
MacNamara, Rumsfield and Cheney, the Dulles brothers and assorted others all seem to have been separated at birth. Vile, grey, sub human.
MacNamara personified the grey, creepy creep mid century modern bean counter.
Weirdly, he was initially against the war. Then to keep his job under Johnson he just sort of Himmlerized himself. ( Is that the Nazi I want to invoke– they all blur)
July 7th, 2009 at 8:22 am
I’ll defend Ahmed and his annoyance with the snide anti-MJ remarks. Jim R’s comments are typically disgusting and fact-challenged (I’m pretty sure Michael Jackson is not irrelevant by any standard). Sergio doesn’t get why we come here to comment: hint, it’s not to agree with everything our host writes. And Justin is just plain wrong. Back on topic, Anna displays her customary moral obtuseness. Complete forgiveness may not be possible for MacNamara, but the dude is definitely a better class of criminal than Rummy and Cheney. Let the comment wars begin!
July 7th, 2009 at 9:29 am
Mavis, anyone who can pen the words:
Complete forgiveness may not be possible for MacNamara, but the dude is definitely a better class of criminal than Rummy and Cheney
is not only obtuse but a moron.
July 7th, 2009 at 9:31 am
And out of all I write…how do you come up with ME being morally obtuse?
Your comment is about as morally obtuse as anything ever put in this comments section. Add intellectually obtuse, too.
July 7th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Actually, its just a completely stupid statement.
July 7th, 2009 at 9:35 am
By the way, Ahmed. I met Howard Zinn. He was guest speaker of the Martha’s Vineyard Peace Council during the Gulf War. He and I and his wife were just hanging out on the patio of my friend’s house prior to his talk at the famous Whaling Church in Edgartown.
July 7th, 2009 at 9:45 am
hahaha, a opinionated and fun comment about the commentators. nice mavis. now as marc says hopefully back to regular programming .
ps if the start of the memorial is any indication of how it wil go– mariah doing a mediocre job of belting our some jackson 5–then this will be a mediocre, faux sentimental snoozer
July 7th, 2009 at 9:46 am
PS. The council brought in Dick Gregory, too. Awesome. After he spoke I gave him a hug. Never have I been moved to do something like that…at least not to a stranger and public figure!
And just to ratchet up the razz: I wrote in his name the first time I voted in a presidential election.
July 7th, 2009 at 10:04 am
to his absurd decisions at the world bank, to his seeking forgiveness from the evil bastards he originally opposed
Fuck off and die, John Moore, you TRULY evil bastard.
July 7th, 2009 at 10:18 am
“Fuck off and die, John Moore, you TRULY evil bastard.”
Please, your comments are embarrassing and make you sound hysterical and unhinged. I probably agree with 2% of John’s political opinions, but compared to your screeching he sounds downright brilliant.
If you want to be taken seriously, at least try constructing a coherent argument.
July 7th, 2009 at 10:25 am
This is a prime example of how an interesting and insightful blog post can become derailed easily because of commentators. So since this is already a kind of a dead thread let me say that Stevie Wonder just gave a wonderful performance
ps the McNamara as genius and boy wonder, the architect of so much death and destruction was a prime example of Hannah’s “banality of evil”
July 7th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Oh lord Ahmed. MJ was a ignominy. Plain and simple. If he were nor rich and famous he would have spent time in prison. Case closed.
Just cause he was a great song and dance man does not excuse his behavior. An exploiter is an exploiter.
July 7th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Zinn and I go way back. I’m a decent dancer, although not as good as my dad or Michael Jackson- loving brother.
July 7th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
Alexander, in his top 1980′s form which we dont see much now, brings some of that old time heat and has penned a pitch perfect piece
http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn07072009.html
“In his later years, McNamara never offered any reflection on the social system that produced and promoted him, a perfectly nice, well- spoken war criminal. As his inflation of his role in the foe- bombing of Japan showed, he could go so far as to falsely though complacently indict himself, while still shirking bigger, more terrifying and certainly more useful reflections on the system that blessed him and mercilessly killed millions upon millions under FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, JFK, LBJ, Nixon.
Like Speer, he got away with it, never having to hang his head or drop through a trap door with a rope around his neck, as he richly deserved.”
July 7th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Hmmmm, whats up with posts disappearing
July 7th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
Great piece you posted, Ahmed.
July 7th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Whatever the quality of Errol Morris’s questions in Fog of War, I do remember being very impressed with McNamara’s honesty and frank talk. As I recall he didn’t go all the way to taking responsibility for his policies in Viet Nam, but his responses were direct and soul-searching to a degree I have never seen in a public figure before or since.
Some of it seemed self serving, but I did think his candor overall was remarkable.
July 7th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
Errol Morris was masterful in Gates of Heaven and The Thin Blue Line.
July 7th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
Dan O. Re read Ahmeds post and follow the Counterpunch link. Cockburn nails the incongruity and perversity of the times and the man.
July 7th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
Dan…a man immolated himself…and nearly his small child outside of MacNamara’s window. His wife was destroyed. Only someone pathologically twisted would not have run screaming out of his office and retching violently and resigning his post after item number one.
But then whats a little collateral damage, eh. You are bought off very easily.
July 8th, 2009 at 9:16 am
This is what I mean by morally obtuse, Anna. Dan didn’t say he wanted to live a life honoring the great works of Robert MacNamera. He said that in his later years, the man demonstrated more honesty and remorse than he remembers seeing in a public official. And he thought that was commendable. And he’s right. That IS commendable. But you treat Dan like he’s promoting the firebombing of Vietnamese villages. Things are not all in black and white. It’s not just good guys versus bad guys. Sometimes, people who have done terrible things exhibit other exemplary qualities – we can and should recognize both.
July 9th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Dan O is, as almost always, mature, level headed, and insightful.