6a93b6b303790b67e6fc…

Balter, blow me.

A sentiment I agree with.

Fine. I don’t expect you to. But I also don’t give a shit about your advice, because it’s just a bunch of cynical, “never gonna happen” carping about how people you don’t want to have anything to do with aren’t doing enough to satisfy you. From my perspective, you haven’t done nearly enough to get Nader elected President and/or destroy the Democratic party. People like you should be expending far more energy on whatever the hell it is you think you should be expending energy on. Because so far we’ve seen little results. Even if all you want is to guarantee that Nader will take enough votes from the Democrats to stop Hillary from getting elected in ‘08, you should get to work.

Just for the purposes of clarifying any further discussion, which I’m going to try to stay out of, that’s MB’s case in a nutshell.

Does it make any sense as a “categorical imperative” ?

Not to me, but then my head is deep in the punchbowl.

‘that a Hillary candidacy means everything that’s been done to move the party in a direction that’s more populist and responsive to activists (NOT “leftists”, in most cases) at the grassroots HAS COME TO NAUGHT, it’s because…”

etc. etc.

All I can say is that the more I read the “left” critiques here, the more it sounds like the guy who’s always there to contribute “Yeah, but…”, followed by a stream of reasons that one is already are all too familiar with as to why whatever pragmatic intervention being attempted in a given situation isn’t good enough. Of course, that same guy’s never got anything to offer as an alternative - other than a strategy to keep his motives pure and his hands clean so he can continue to pat himself on the back as the good guy and point fingers - a luxury of the inevitable impotence of keeping “above-the-fray”.

What’s your proposal, Michael ? Other than “I won’t vote for Hillary Clinton”, you seem to be offeriing up zilch. If I want to get in a frenzy about the Unbearanle Gravity of Polling Data in August of ‘07 in order to feed bullshit cynicism, I can listen to Cokie Roberts and Howard Fineman parsing the electoral landscape on some crap TV talk show. You seem obsessed with Hillary’s polling numbers. If they move in either direction, it won’t be because of your handwringing.

This is a long-term effort. And, frankly, it’s about resurgent liberalism and a large dose of nothing more than making Democratic politicians more responsive to Democratic constitutencies. If you think it’s all been a failure because Hillary is the leading candidate and that a Hillary candidacy means everything that’s been done to move the party in a direction that’s more populist and responsive to activists (NOT “leftists”, in most cases) at the grassroots, it’s probably because you have a different conception of politics.

Why don’t you quit carping about the Democrats and do something your own damn self. Send appeals to run and some money to a RunRalphRun group. Publish a website offering your views on how the Democrats are sellouts and Nader is our only hope. Attack Obama for his plan to invade Pakistan. Whatever. Because I can guarantee you that sitting on the sidelines throwing spitballs at Democrats who simply want to put some more spine in their party, support a cluster of candidates who are more aggressive and more responsive, and who want their candidates in ‘08 to know that they’re not calling all of the shots from Beltway backrooms or Al From’s offices, won’t help you achieve whatever the hell it is you want to achieve. Either build that third party or build the mass antiwar movement that looks kinda like the one you remember from your youth - do whatever the hell it is folks who can’t stand the Democratic party do. I don’t really give a shit anymore, because none of what you say makes much sense to me except as negativity, cynicism and resignation. Attribute my cautious optimism to the Kool-Aid. But I do hope that you’ve got something positive to contribute in some turf you can define for yourself. Maybe once it’s rolling for you, you can even define it for the rest of us in a way that seems like it’s an alternative and not just a jeer. (Not that there’s anyting wrong with jeers, as long as one acknowledges their strategic limitations and the fact that they’re more often offered to make one feel intellectually and morally superior to whomever’s being jeered than to change amy course of action.) Because complaining that Kos and the rest who’ve engaged as Democrats haven’t done enough to crush the Beltway establishment or end corporate influence - and predicting that so far as you’re concerned they CAN NEVER achieve any of their (modest liberal) goals isn’t getting you any closer to whatever it is that’s first on your political agenda. Light a candle…

GONZALEZ, Zachariah J., 23, Specialist, Army; Indianapolis; Second Infantry Division.

HEINLEIN, Charles T. Jr., 23, Pfc., Army; Hemlock, Mich.; Second Infantry Division.

JAIRALA, Alfred H., 29, Pfc., Army; Hialeah, Fla.; Second Infantry Division.

LINK, Joey D., 29, Tech. Sgt., Air Force; Portland, Tenn.; 39th Airlift Squadron.

LONG, Braden J., 19, Specialist, Army; Sherman, Tex.; First Infantry Division.

RIOS, Julian Ingles, 52, Master Sgt., Army National Guard; Anasco, P.R.; 130th Engineer Battalion.

ROJAS-GALLEGO, Cristian, 24, Specialist, Army; Loganville, Ga.; Second Infantry Division.

SALINAS, Eric D., 25, Specialist, Army; Houston; Second Infantry Division.

SANTOS, Fernando, 29, Staff Sgt., Army; San Antonio; Second Infantry Division.

VASQUEZ, Cristian, 20, Lance Cpl., Marines; Coalinga, Calif.; First Marine Division.

“WASHINGTON (Reuters) - New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has significantly widened her lead over Illinois Sen. Barack Obama in the Democratic presidential contest after a dispute over foreign policy, a new poll showed on Tuesday.

The USA Today/Gallup poll of 1,012 adults showed Clinton’s support at 48 percent among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents, versus 26 percent for Obama. Former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards’ support was at 12 percent.

USA Today reported on Tuesday the data showed Clinton advancing 8 percentage points and Obama falling 2 points from polling results from last month.

In a head-to-head matchup, the poll showed Clinton besting Obama 59 percent to 36 percent.

Among Republicans, polling data showed former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani at 33 percent, former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson at 21 percent, Arizona Sen. John McCain at 16 percent and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney at 8 percent.

Conducted Friday through Sunday, the poll had an overall error margin of 3 percentage points.”

(except of this Reuters dispatch)

Keep a careful watch. It is even possible that other high philosophers will deduce that you can build coalitions! I mean, think about it, campesinos, mini-mart workers, lesbians, dirt farmers, performance artists, Burmese and Guatemalans and Latvians, superannuated factory workers, unwed teenage moms and young graphic designers from Shaker Heights who lack health insurance!

Truly, to watch the Left at work is like being a bug on the wall at the patent office in Bern, in 1903.

Also, Josh Marshall - and his readers who contribute information on local pols getting wobbly on issues - became a real force in the Social Security debate. Also, TPM was a central player - THE most important journalistic endeavor - in helping to expose the AG scandal and politically-motivated firing of US attorneys. Again, Josh’s readers became part of the loop in reporting on regional red flags - an effort that, I believe, was unprecedented in creative investigative journalism.

What’s the younger generation coming to ????

One of the netroots’ biggest criticisms of the Democratic Party (and one of Marc’s as well) is the extraordinary lack of spine shown when it comes to big issues. I think the netroots will prove a fairly consistent voice for boldness.

The other big question is going to be money and influence peddling. Many of the most prominent liberal bloggers are in favor of campaign finance reforms, including Kevin Drum, Josh Marshall, Matt Yglesias, Ezra Klein, and Kos. Obviously there are legal and political obstacles to meaningful campaign finance reform, but if the netroots manages to push those issues to the fore and get real change, it would represent a real change for the Democratic Party and a counterveiling force to Wall Street. Again, we’ll have to wait and see, but I see reasons for optomism.

The blogs in question are hardly in the tank for Harry and Nancy and they are very skeptical of Hillary. John Edwars is their candidate if the straw polls mean anything.

(you’re daughter seems to like him too, Marc. Maybe you should sit her down and explain how she’s drinking the Kool-Aide.)

I agree with Reg. Consider the absolute failure of the so-called “Left” in this country over the past thirty years its refreshing to see a force that is rising in influence. And I think that rise is due to the fact that they understand a simple fact that eludes the rest of “Progressive” movement. That power to change comes with electoral victories. That there are two routes to those victories. That the Right successfully made one of those routes - the GOP - their own. And that the netroots can make the Democrats a Left party. The work is still incomplete. Thats why 16 Senators - including Feinstein - caved on FISA to a 25% president. Thats why 50 Dem reprs either voted “Aye” or did not vote. In both cases that meant a majority said “NO” but the Republicans were unanimous. Nancy and Harry need pinal transplants. And that will happen. One reason the so-called GOP “moderates” always caved to their right was the threat of primary challenges. When that happens on our side watch the change.

I know this is hard. It means electorial politics as the route and, by and large, people like Marc and Mike distrust that. Its slow, it is frustrating. Better to “Mobilize the People” - though Marc is oh so fastidious about whom is to be be allowed (no ANSWER, no UFPJ) or create “New Parties” (Peace and Freedom, Citizens, Green) or follow true leaders (Commoner, Nader). Anything but work with what is right in front of them.

I know, Marc, you’re an observer. Its not your job to actually do anything. Fine. Then let some of us who actually give a damn do something without all the snide carping from the Peanut Gallery!

Yeah, Marc and I are two peas in a pod. I wish the Democratic Party all the success in the world in fusing a tight bond with Kos and its like.