Ted Dead
Not much I can say about the late Teddy Kennedy that you won’t read or hear somewhere else in the next few hours or days. But I can add a few reflections based on having been with him on the campaign trail several times.During various Democratic primary campaigns over the years, in California, Nevada, New Hampshire and many, many times in Iowa have been to rallies that featured Ted Kennedy. And unless you’ve been to one of these shindigs, it’s hard to imagine just how stunningly popular Kennedy remained among the Democratic base. I don’t care where the venue was, or who the candidate was he was backing, Teddy was the Main Event. Not an overstatement to say, right up through the Obama campaign, the “Liberal Lion” was a true political rock star. The first few times I saw the electric response he evoked among the party faithful, I was sort of taken back. But the magic was real. Kennedy, in his elder years and chubbier than ever, would amble up to the stage and unfailingly, unleash a red meat tirade, an old-fashioned barn burner than would set the crowd ablaze as he leaned on the podium, sweated like no tomorrow and turned beet red as he continued to thunder. Anyone who underestimates the mystique of the Kennedy name fails to understand the soul of your average Democrat.
The great irony, of course, of Kennedy’s career was that while he was absolutely reviled and mocked by the right-wing ground troops, he was a master legislator who could persuade and pact with just about and rational Republican in the Senate (a dying breed). Whether it was a joint effort with a Hatch or a McCain, it was Teddy alone who could seal the big bi-partisan deal.
The other haunting irony is the timing of his death. Kennedy’s staff has long been the go-to folks on Capitol Hill when it came to health care issues. Beltway reporters and activists have always known that his office was the one-stop center of keeping track of the issue. And of fighting for real reform. That he dies during this late summer pause in what has become an absurd health care debate — punctuated by gun toting nut jobs, accusations of death panels and a general scare campaign warning of the sovietization of American medical practice– could be an omen. Will the sudden death of America’s most consistent champion of universal coverage snap the debate back to reality? Or has his demise become a supernatural symbol of a failing Obamacare initiative?
Or is Ted just dead?
August 26th, 2009 at 1:20 am
Terrible title.
But at least you mentioned his monumental talent: that of impassioned oratory.
What bitter irony his time of death is– even more so as Obama is vacationing on the VIneyard.
It all just stinks.
While still living on the island I saw TK and some cronies in the BLack Dog…over 20 years ago. What was astonishing was how good looking he was and how blue his eyes were.
Obama needs to ratchet up the passion and focus on healthcare reform as Kennedy did for his fucking campaign.
August 26th, 2009 at 3:18 am
An Ann Althouse commenter sums up a well-lived life:
Edward Kennedy will be remembered as a man who overcame an impoverished, hardscrabble upbringing to matriculate at Harvard, where he soon established a reputation for extraordinarily original thinking. Before his election in 1962 he had complied such a record of accomplishment that the voters of Massachusetts were impatient at the Constitutional age limit of 30 for senators.
When faced with a great personal crisis, Kennedy acted with such straightforward candor and courage as to embody that old adage, “Let justice be done, though the heavens may fall.”
In his only run for the presidency, he laid out such a coherent vision of his reasons for seeking that office that it was only through the machinations of his opponent that he was deprived of it.
In his 45 years as a Senator, Kennedy’s green-eyeshade approach to spending and careful appreciation of the Constititional restraint on the reach of the Federal government earned him the affectionate title of “The Taxpayer’s Friend.”
A faithful husband as well as the father of another upstanding legislator, Edward Kennedy was the embodiment of his Catholic faith. We will not see his kind again.
August 26th, 2009 at 4:59 am
This latest episode of Grave Dancing on the Stars was presented by Bob Williams.
August 26th, 2009 at 5:10 am
AA: When faced with a great personal crisis, Kennedy acted with such straightforward candor and courage
Really? Let me be the first, and probably only one, to say this one word that describes Ted Kennedy: Chappaquiddick.
How could EMK have died before the Massachusetts legislature could change back the law that he wanted or to simply allow him to name his own successor?
August 26th, 2009 at 5:13 am
Great. I made my comment after only scanning the earlier quote, and then I read the entire thing and realized that we were on the same page. A parody of liberal-think is too close to their true feelings.
August 26th, 2009 at 7:02 am
Biden very eloquent.
Obama’s statement rather perfunctory and did not serve as the emotional lightning rod it should have been.
No good speech writers anymore. Ted Sorenson just had a piece up a few days ago on the Kennedys.
It will be interesting to see who speaks at the ceremony to come and if anyone is left to pull of the send off he deserves.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Oh, Woody, it’s really touching to see your genuine, heartfelt concern for the fate of Mary Jo Kopechne. I was worried you might instead engage in the sort of classless, disgusting grave-dancing that people like you love to accuse liberals of doing.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:25 am
I am opposed to hagiographies. And Ted Kennedy had plenty of hypocrisy and human foibles and perhaps even accessory to negilgent homicide as markers in his life. But Ann Althouse’s poorly written dump is just that.. a heaping pile of crap from a bottom feeder nobody. She is a compelling argument AGAINST new media.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:43 am
There’s a reason why people refer to her as Ann Outhouse.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:55 am
In fairness, I believe that Bob Williams, in showing his sorry and tasteless ass, was quoting not Ann Althouse but a “commenter”. So Marc, I’m going to apply your line “a heaping pile of crap from a bottom feeder nobody” to Bob himself and to the Georgia TrollBoy.
But also “in fairness”, Woody obviously can’t see a sour parody for what it is – since he quotes it to “debunk” it, or perhaps he simply is desperated to use this moment to show his nasty, guttersnipe side as well. If Laura Bush has an untimely death – before Woody’s – I’ll expect to see a link to the tale of how she killed a 17-year old kid by running a stop sign.
Fair’s fair !
August 26th, 2009 at 10:02 am
To get any potential discussion back on the rails of sanity and decency, Ezra Klein has an extended take that complements Marc’s thoughts on TK:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/08/kennedy_and_compromise.html
August 26th, 2009 at 10:05 am
“But Ann Althouse’s poorly written dump is just that.. a heaping pile of crap from a bottom feeder nobody. She is a compelling argument AGAINST new media.”
Huh? I raced over to Ann Althouse to read the poorly written dump and could not find it. You must be referring to something a commenter wrote.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Reg is correct though before we give Althouse too much credit, let’s note that she thinks it a good time to post a video where Kennedy accidentally referred to Obama as Osama bin Ladin. Such a good laugh at the man with brain cancer.
I do want to associate my general feeling with Marc’s and defend anybody who wants to criticize Kennedy’s life and goals. That’s said, there is such a thing as being an asshole.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:08 am
marc -
I sure hope this does snap the debate back to reality or act as some sort of catalyst.
BTW – Bill Bradley has a nice eulogy on Huffington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-bradley/camelot-ends-again-the-pa_b_269333.html
August 26th, 2009 at 10:11 am
“Such a good laugh at the man with brain cancer.”
There’s metaphorical “brain cancer” as well as clinical. Certain (predictable) folks are exhibiting the former on the death of a complicated, deeply flawed and ultimately quite tragic man with the latter.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:28 am
Is your printer ready?
http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/tedkennedy.htm
August 26th, 2009 at 10:45 am
“Really? Let me be the first, and probably only one, to say this one word that describes Ted Kennedy: Chappaquiddick.”-WOODY
—–
As I recall, Mr Kennedy was never charged for any crimes surrounding that incident. You seem to have overcome the presumption of innocense even for persons not charged with crimes.
You would concur consistantly then and agree that George Bush (the lesser) was AWOL from his National Guard service?
The larger issue relates to the human condition. The trouble you have with Ted Kennedy has nothing to do with his morality.
Hell, Dick Cheney can waterboard to his delight and that’s just fine with Woody.
No. The biggest crime commited by Ted Kennedy in the mind of wing-nuts, the unforgivible crime, the penultimite smear on his legacy, is the fact that the letter -D- instead of the letter -R- appended his name.
But emblematic of lunacy emanating from the Right is the juxtaposition of the Woody’s with their comdemnation of Kennedy and their elected Republican representatives in the Senate who will eulogize his service to his country.
August 26th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Ah, certainly pithy …
I see a few of your commenters simply can’t help themselves.
>Ted Dead
August 26th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
An Ann Althouse commenter sums up a well-lived life:
You, that commenter, and Woody are all despicable scum.
August 26th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Scott,
He pled guilty to leaving the scene of an accident after causing injury, and received a two month suspended sentence.
It’s a misdemeanor in Massachusetts.
August 26th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Marc Cooper Says:
August 26th, 2009 at 9:25 am
I am opposed to hagiographies. And Ted Kennedy had plenty of hypocrisy and human foibles
Marc, would you like to start with YOURS and lets see how your “foibles” stack up against your accomplishments.
That type of bullshit comment just makes me puke.
What is it supposed to mean? There isnt a human on the planet that can claim they are without “foibles” does that mean you smear them with excrement despite their perhaps having accomplished more on one lifetime than most do in a thousand.
Kennedy kicked some legislative ass and had passion. Just because he came from the family he did doesnt mean his accomplishments are less because he started out with more.
I would say the fact he did do what he did in relation to his privilege makes him more remarkable.
This bashing of someone who actually gave a shit by people who think sneering makes them clever and politically astute is pathetic.
Name one person whose political accomplishments any of you admire if your solipsist little liberal minds can=— then lets see how they shake out in terms of behavior.
Yeah, Kennedy used to get drunk and bare his ass in the BLack Dog on the island. I could give a rats ass. I am sure there are a million anecdotes on this level.
Lets see what you make of yourself given a similar background and people gunning for you.
August 26th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Wait, wait, hang on Anna. How is it a crime to evenely and reasonably note that Ted Kennedy had flaws? That’s all Marc did, so why the hissy fit?
It’s an observation that can be applied to anyone, but is even more relevant amongst the revered like Kennedy. It’s an antidote to getting carried away. TK, was great, and he had some flaws.
It’s superior and more accurate than lauding him uncritically, or consigning his whole life to one very bad night. You need to get yourself some Aristotle!
August 26th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
….And predictably, out come the lunatics: http://bit.ly/hVWDq
August 26th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
One of the most interesting facets of Ted Kennedy is how many conservative colleagues seemed to genuinely like the guy. Orrin Hatch obviously had a real affection for Kennedy and Pete Wilson claimed to like him more than any other member of the Senate. Nancy Reagan wrote a nice obit in which she said that Reagan really liked and respected EMK. Kind of weird…but presumably a testament to a lot of charm, I’m sure calculated to some degree but also no doubt some measure of the kind of guy he was. Apparently he was noted for small acts of kindness and generosity that had enormous impact on folks on the receiving end.
August 26th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Ted Kennedy would have loved Anna’s sneering about our, “solipsist little liberal minds.” Nobody hated liberals like Ted Kennedy.
August 26th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Orrin Hatch was on NPR today talking about his friendship with Ted Kennedy. You can tell from the stories and his voice Hatch truly loved the man. The stories were really funny and poignant.
NPR also interviewed one of the refuseniks from the 1970′s. Boris Katz and his wife and daughter, were able to leave the Soviet Union with visas to the United States because of Ted Kennedy’s personal meetings with the Soviet authorities. When they landed at Logan Airport, Kennedy was there to welcome them. Katz said with obvious emotion that Kennedy saved their lives.
Flawed? Aren’t we all? This was a good man who did much to atone for his flaws. Considering his background, he very easily could have led a life of selfish indulgence and entitlement. I may not have always agreed with his politics but I admire the good that he accomplished through his outstanding senate career. There will be time enough to dissect all the many parts of his life. At least for the next few days, we should simply be grateful for all that he did for the country.
August 26th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
The no-class Democrats are now exploiting Kennedy’s death to push Obama’s socialized medicine. Isn’t this the same group that accused Bush of using the WTC deaths for political purposes? ‘Win One for Teddy,’ Say Dems Pushing for Health Reform
August 26th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
If only we could take Ted Kennedy’s spine and transplant it into Obama
August 26th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Reg, why would you assume that the mountain of evidence that one of his unassailable qualities was that he went out of his way to be kind and decent– do you assail? The off hand saying that in personal interactions he sat around conjuring calculated acts of kindness is absurd.
Political calculations, of course. Cant survive as a politician without it. But one can’t calculate being a good friend. And the lengths to which he demonstrated that quality or compassion for others.
you can’t calculate that.
He drank, fucked, acted acted crazy for part of his life– those are flaws. And I am sure more are on record. But saying one’s innate character with entire life history to support it is calculated is just a sad comment on the need to tear down.
I know as much about the Kennedy’s as any of you. We all only have access to the same material.
I am angry because I don’t yet know of any other Senator who has kicked ass the way he did. If you do…please share.
His outrage and passion is not something you can calculate, reg, nor the mountain of kind acts he is accused of doing!
Just heard some of the Nixon tapes…he wanted to pin Wallace’s getting shot on a Kennedy supporter. Wanted to find comprimised Secret Service agents to assign to him. My god when you think of the shit and scum this guy had to counter and the forces that murdered everyone around him at the drop of a hat.
That snippet of Nixon tape part of the doc playing just confirms the suggestion in the recent book Brothers that the Secret Service was comprimised in relation to its dedication to protect JFK.
What a disgusting country
August 26th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
He drank, fucked, acted acted crazy for part of his life– those are flaws.
Says who?
August 26th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Okay. I’m despicable scum for posting (3:18 a.m.) the pretend obit of “Ted” I found in Ann Althouse’s comment thread. Other than being totally untrue, what’s wrong with it?
August 26th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
WOODY SAYS:
“The no-class Democrats are now exploiting Kennedy’s death to push Obama’s socialized medicine. Isn’t this the same group that accused Bush of using the WTC deaths for political purposes? ‘Win One for Teddy,’ Say Dems Pushing for Health Reform”
—
BIG DIFFERENCE: Dems are trying to pass Teddy’s dream of universal health coverage to make people well.
Bush used the events of 9-11 as a pretext to gin up support in order to kill people.
August 26th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
DanO. LOL. point taken. Just trying to hand the bitter people a crumb.
Anyway, anyone know of a Senator that accomplished more please pony up.
August 26th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
# Ahmed Says:
August 26th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
If only we could take Ted Kennedy’s spine and transplant it into Obama
And Kennedy’s was broken! I will second that thought, Ahmed.
It would have been nice to see Obama feel some sort of mission around health care given Kennedy came out for him. If one makes concessions to those who help get you elected then how about a sense of gratitude and moral spine towards a vital issue rather it just becoming another little pawn in a shell game
August 26th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Woody is one big WATB.
August 26th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
“He saved my life. He could have spent his time doing anything,” Jessica Katz said. “He’s from the fanciest, most powerful family in Massachusetts, and probably in the country, and he decided to spend his time helping out me and my family.”
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/26/littlest.refusenik.kennedy/
August 26th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Anna – your comment is bizarre. If you don’t think “charm” offensives between politicians isn’t often calculated or that EMK didn’t use his to advantage with fellow Senators, you’re incredibly naive. I hope to god he did. The thrust of my comment, however, was that his charm was authentic. I think the lasting affection of many conservatives was proof of that. And I “assailed” absolutely nothing about his countless acts of kindness and generosity that are noted so often it would be hard to imagine that they weren’t simply evidence of the kind of guy he was. You’re really getting unhinged…
August 26th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Incidentally, Anna, Kennedy’s strongest suit wasn’t unbending principle but compromise to get what he undoubtedly saw as the best he could to serve his principles. On deregulation, incidentally, Kennedy was one of the culprits in the ’70s. Frankly, Kennedy was such a consistent – albeit effective – pragmatist that it’s bizarre that the rightwing hates him as much as they do. Maybe it was the “effective” part that burned their asses. But he didn’t “kick” asses in the Senate. He had his agenda, but he was a negotiator and often negotiated stuff that was pretty crappy – like “No Child” or the Medicare Drug bill.
August 26th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
And don’t forget his 40+ year struggle for justice and reform of our pathetic immigration laws:
http://www.longislandwins.com/blog/in_the_news/if_your_family_came_here_after.php
Sadly, there’s no remaining living Senator who has the encyclopedic grasp of immigration law and policy that Kennedy had.
August 26th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
“Orrin Hatch was on NPR today talking about his friendship with Ted Kennedy. You can tell from the stories and his voice Hatch truly loved the man.”
True, no doubt, but we will never see comparable comments about any right-winger on this religiously leftist blog.
RIP.
August 26th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
I wager you could see such comments here about a genuine conservative, but, no, not a right-winger.
Incidentally a conservative is the right analogue to Kennedy, not a right-winger. You guys seem to completely misunderstand the political spectrum in this country.
August 26th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
“but we will never see comparable comments about any right-winger on this religiously leftist blog.”
Au contraire. Biff, on behalf of all the religiously leftist lefties here, we truly, truly love you.
August 26th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
Biff – I felt the same affection for Barry Goldwater, I’d love to have a drink with Pat Buchanan (although his absolutely toxic, racist comments about Sotomayor pushed that envelope), and I respected John McCain before he proved himself a reckless idiot by nominating Sarah Palin as his running mate. I don’t know if Dick Lugar qualifies as a “rightwinger” because he stops short of toxic politics and crackpot speeches. IMHO Lugar’s as consistently a conservative pragmatist – as opposed to nutty rightwing – as Kennedy was a liberal pragmatist, but I like him more than I like, say, Ben Nelson or Steny Hoyer and when my very liberal son met Lugar he said he was a great guy. Tim Pawlenty seems like a decent sort who would probably make a nice next-door neighbor. And I wouldn’t dance on Orrin Hatch’s grave, although I happen find his personality a bit off-putting. Most certainly if he died, I would note his friendship with Kennedy as an indication that he wasn’t simply the one-dimensional jerk I see too often on my TeeVee. And, for all of his manifest dishonesty and the blood on his hands, Bill Kristol seems like a genuinely cheerful man, although if I had to have dinner with a neo-con, I’d prefer David Frum. (On the other hand, I happen to have heard from anecdotes circulating among Assembly of God folks, among other constituents and neighbors in Springfield Missouri that John Ashcroft really IS an asshole. Ditto Roy Blunt.)
August 26th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
“True, no doubt, but we will never see comparable comments about any right-winger on this religiously leftist blog.”
I think there might be a few…a very few, who would have the grace to rise above it all and recognize the decent qualities and contributions of their ideological opponents.
August 26th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
Biff has issues…
August 26th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Also, Biff, if Laura Bush met an untimely death I wouldn’t immediately link to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Dutton_Douglas
That would show a distinct lack of class- something that we’ve seen exhibited here by the resident troll.
August 26th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
On a somewhat related Marc’s colleague Alex had some very warm things to say about the “prince of darkness” Novak
http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn08212009.html
August 26th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
Very cool thread.
Anna – the takeaway of your points here is quite true. Kennedy really was the best the Dems had. He had no trouble in his own skin as a liberal. In contrast, I wince when I remember (the mighty) Laura Ingraham trying to get a straight answer out of Sen Kerry as to whether or not he was a liberal. There’s no incumbent in the senate on the Dems side of that same timber.
Sobering thought; Paul Wellstone might have been a Ted.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
First, note that I said not a word against Ted Kennedy: I said words against many of you jokers.
Second, I admit that I might be wrong, so go ahead and prove me wrong.
Anyone who has posted a kind or civil or respectful word about any conservative or right-winger on this blog within the last year, let’s have the date.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
“anyone who has posted a kind or civil or respectful word about any conservative or right-winger on this blog within the last year, let’s have the date.”
Dude it looks like you’ve got a night on the town with Anna in your future, something that I hardly envy. It was just a couple days ago that she wrote something about being fascinated by Buchanan, about him being a genuinely interesting person and that she wanted to hear Marc’s interview with him. Look it up yourself, son
August 26th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
Biff,
You are just dead wrong pal. Im not going to bother to give u times and dates because you’re not paying for my time but I have written many positive things about conservatives and Republicans. I’ll do it right now. I think Buchanan is a GREAT political analyst. And he’s a very nice guy as well. If u read my latest cover story as well in The Nation that was posted here, you will also see I favorably quote Republican strategist Allan Hoffenblum who is an excellent friend of mine and someone I invite to speak to my students. Case closed.
Ahmed, Alex is hardly my colleague. I find him repellant. His eulogy for Novak is dishinest. I knew Novak and he was as hateful, spiteful and petty as his public persona.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
I mean that he’s your colleague only in the sense that you’re both associated with the nation magazine, so technically I have some ground to stand on.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Biff – during the GOP primaries last year I defended John McCain against the calumnies of GM Roper. Roper considered McCain despicable UNTIL he nominated Palin as his Veep !!!! Go figure…
August 26th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
I ran into this while looking in to Biff’s claim. It’s interesting in retrospect.
August 26th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
I think I’d better paste the URL directly as well..
http://marccooper.com/obama-inc/
August 26th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
Ahmed
I know. But just in passing, I haven’t been on Nation payroll for two years now (by my choosing). One great benefit is NOT being too closely associated with AC.
August 27th, 2009 at 5:16 am
Uh Ahmed…you are unhinged. I mentioned Buchanan in response to Marc’s saying he had interviewed him…and right above a bit Marc says exactly what I said about Buchanan.
Unfortunately, you leave out –as usual–the part where I said his politics were abhorrent, but that he was a fascinating character and his analysis for the Dems during the talking head bits during the campaign was more astute than anything the Dem heads blubbered. I also made note of his Irish Catholic sensibility and education that often makes for pretty interesting people. He also is someone that has genuine passion–for the wrong damn things but he is human. And clearly the man has a higher IQ than most.
August 27th, 2009 at 5:26 am
As to TK. I would like to see Obama give an impassioned eulogy that recommits himself to actually change something and focus on healthcare and be damn sure a real bill is passed.
The Dems and Left do not understand why the Right always steamrolls over them. No passion, no absolutes, no conviction in anything. People respond to passion.
I wish Obama had the balls to say he is angry that Kennedy didnt live to see the passage of a universal health care bill and that he was now going to recommit himself to it as its the single most important domestic issue that will affect every American—blah blah and that his term in office will now be defined by being able to usher in a piece of legislation that will demonstrate the biggest change in public policy and respresent a real shift away from the control of entrenched interests.
If fucking only…
August 27th, 2009 at 5:32 am
Biff is also apparently a WATB.
I would agree with Reg on Goldwater and Lugar. I would also throw in the two Davids: Brooks and Frum.
I’ll never forget what Goldwater said about gays in the military: “Who cares if they’re gay or straight as long as they can shoot straight.”
August 27th, 2009 at 5:53 am
“One of the most interesting facets of Ted Kennedy is how many conservative colleagues seemed to genuinely like the guy. Orrin Hatch obviously had a real affection for Kennedy and Pete Wilson claimed to like him more than any other member of the Senate. Nancy Reagan wrote a nice obit in which she said that Reagan really liked and respected EMK. Kind of weird…but presumably a testament to a lot of charm, I’m sure calculated to some degree but also no doubt some measure of the kind of guy he was.”
I rather think it has more to do with genuineness Reg. There is something in human nature that admires and respects courage and the willingness to stand and fight, fairly at least, for what they believe in. Part of that ‘fairly’ is respecting those traits in your opponents, not resorting to mean, nasty and personal attacks, but being an example yourself in order to elevate others respect for your cause. This is why you don’t see respect shown to a losing General and his warriors in physical war, unless they behaved as cowards.
Teds personal life was a mess, but he was an admirable and capable warrior in his political life. Not only did he have much tragedy in his personal life with the loss of his older brothers and an impressive young JFK Jr, but I understand he was told by his father he wasn’t as smart as his older brothers. He over-came all these depressing circumstances that would have done in your average man, and rose to become a highly courageous and effective General, deserving and getting the respect of fair Generals, and people, on the other side of the political battle, that will and must exist in a democracy in order to prevent excess, extremes and even Totalitarianism by one side.
I apologize for the infantry on my side that calls for courageous Generals heads. I thought Reagan was a great General. But he was a dumb ass…..yes?
August 27th, 2009 at 5:56 am
“This is why you don’t see respect shown to a losing General….” should be “…do see respect..” geeesh!
August 27th, 2009 at 6:08 am
Of course there is such a thing as common decency and respect for the grieving family of any on deceased.
Too many in the lower ranks of the battle lack even this basic trait of humanity, which is why they are were they are.
August 27th, 2009 at 6:56 am
You guys are awfully predictable. I don’t know if the Woody character is a parody or troll or just some really irritating person, but he/she is definitely the personification of the Biblical remark about seeing the mote in your neighbor’s eye and missing the log in your own. But this is characteristic of much of right wing trolling on lots of other sites — the obsession with finding fault, however microscopic, with the liberal side, and the simultaneous use of angry generalizations about liberalism in general — that suggests either a lack of intellectual honesty or a distinct lack of imagination.
I saw Ted Kennedy give a speech at MIT back in the 1960s and I was not impressed by his intellectual heft. This was during the period when he was still anti-abortion, before he subscribed (at least officially) to Democratic Party platform ideology. In this sense he was much like a lot of present day Republican candidates who have miraculously become pro-life in response to polling data. He was clearly the least of the three brothers who survived into the 1960s and it was terribly obvious that he won and held his senate seat because of his name, the party machinery, and campaign money. I was concerned about his chances in the presidential sweepstakes because I just didn’t think he had the intellect that the job requires. In retrospect, his emotional maturity should also have been in question even back then.
But for some reason, he seemed to blossom in the Senate and was willing to take the heat of being the voice of liberalism — in some sense the voice of his older brothers in surviving form. I think that a lot of that came from the security of being THE Kennedy in a state that still mourns John and Robert, complete with all the money and organization necessary to win, time after time, and not have to worry about annoying two percent of the voting public. I find that I generally agreed with, supported, and applauded much of his legislative product. I don’t see the compromises he made as a blot on his record so much as a blot on the record of his opponents. In retrospect, the fact that he took up the mission from his late brothers and did the heavy lifting in the senate over multi-decades speaks volumes. As one of the other commenters says, he could have taken up a life of idleness and partying and instead worked for the common good.
As to dedicating the health reform bill to him, naming it after him, and using his life and death as a rallying cry to get a truly useful bill passed, more power to him and to those who would choose this approach. That would be a fitting memorial and a great service to the American people.
August 27th, 2009 at 7:20 am
Who are the decent Senators left? I don’t keep tabs. Seems there are more Representatives with chops and balls than Senators.
Anyone care to give me a quick ramp up?
Here is the list:
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
Boxer, Byrd???? Who are the good guys???? Anybody with guts?
August 27th, 2009 at 7:28 am
“You guys are awfully predictable. I don’t know if the Woody character is a parody or troll or just some really irritating person, but he/she is definitely the personification of the Biblical remark about seeing the mote in your neighbor’s eye and missing the log in your own.”
But not you Bob.
August 27th, 2009 at 7:35 am
“Who are the decent Senators left?”
Decency is not defined by your politics. It is easy to be decent to those who agree with your opinions. It requires no decency.
August 27th, 2009 at 7:42 am
Decency is not defined by your politics, in fact it trials it.
August 27th, 2009 at 7:59 am
Jim R – apparently I wrote my comment on Kennedy’s charm badly, because both you and Anna interpreted it as implying it was nothing but calculation. My intent was that his decency to others, often in small things that are more telling than the public face, was genuine – BUT it’s inconceivable to me that any politician who either came by that quality naturally or who had mastered it in the course of his growth as a human being wouldn’t also deploy it with a bit of calculation. (I doubt that he found all of these characters quite as charming as many of them found him.) And if he didn’t use his ability to make friends across the spectrum of the Senate to some larger purpose than bon amie, he’d be a lousy politician – a category to which EMK didn’t even come close.
August 27th, 2009 at 8:14 am
Feingold and Sanders top my list of Senators who speak out boldly. That’s a far cry from them being as effective as Kennedy. Kennedy also had the luxury of not worrying about re-election. You have to judge someone like Claire McCaskill from MO on the basis of her positions in relation to her electorate – to what degree is being “moderate” a political necessity, balanced by a show of leadership and principle on certain critical issues. “Poltiical courage” comes without much of a price when your seat is 100% safe. I think there’s a good chance, incidentally, that Al Franken may turn out to be one of our best Senators. He’s smart, he’s a great student of politics, he’s enthusiastic but serious and he’s already made a name for himself in a much more interesting and lucrative business. The only reason he’s in politics is because he cares about issues, not because it’s his only shot at getting a guest spot on SNL and folks will finally recognize him in fine restaurants. Franken’s probably the only guy in the Senate who wishes another guy had his seat (his friend Paul Wellstone – Franken would never have run if Wellstone hadn’t died.)
August 27th, 2009 at 8:52 am
And thank god Franken took back that seat from the weasle.
August 27th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Who has shown guts so far? ANd stays the course on the issues…
What about Barbara Boxer?
I will go way out on a limb about Franken– I do hope you are right about him– but…and we can compare notes in 5 years…my intuition has always flinched around him. I appreciate he has been a brainy social satirist. But I get a big whiff of ego from him and I think he will go the route of wanting to ingratiate himself rather than really being any sort of iconoclast or someone coming up with interesting and original ideas and trying to build a coalition around them. I don’t see it. Guys like him are primarily entertainers. Its one thing to write a book and call Bush a big fat liar. Ha ha ha ha ah. Its another to have the chops come up with solutions and then do the dirty work to have to implement them.
I hope I am wrong. I have not been following his bid for the seat that I do know was contested and he did stay the course to get it.
Does he have a portfolio of ideas he has ever shopped or alluded to? I would think that trying that hard to get into office he would have some ideas…let me know.
August 27th, 2009 at 10:36 am
Jim R: Decent Senators are ones who actually give a shit.
August 27th, 2009 at 10:37 am
…about making sure the constitution is upheld and making sure people’s rights are respected. Not those who spend their time in office stripping people, animals and the land of their rights and resources.
August 27th, 2009 at 10:38 am
Biff Larkin Says:
August 26th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
“Orrin Hatch was on NPR today talking about his friendship with Ted Kennedy. You can tell from the stories and his voice Hatch truly loved the man.”
True, no doubt, but we will never see comparable comments about any right-winger on this religiously leftist blog.
RIP.
—–
As well it SOULD be. When politics comes face to face with morality, politics should give way.
No matter what economic philosophy Republicans propound, they are still the party of torture. To maintain membership in an organisation which promotes a state sponsored policy by curtailing human rights is an act of collaboration with evil. Thus it is not possible to simply repudiate torture (like McC) and maintain ones efforts within the party as long as that policy is in force because torture is evil.
The Republicans have never sought to repudiate Torture, indeed they have tried to politicize its necessity. Or they bhave tried to parse words and redefine the meaning of torture to something beyond what they are doing. Which is to say that employing evil is a necessary expedient to protect Republican interest, and in turn gfood for everybody.
Readers may well study how France confronted collaboration after the war, deciding just what is justiciable and what will be overlooked in a country where half of its citizens collaborated with the occupation.
(See, Camus, “Camus at Combat 1944-1947)
Although not of the magnitude of post-war France one can see the parallels in dealing with the policy of torture here in that to successfully expiate those responsible for authorizing evil would require indictments of many high ranking public officials. This will not happen because that process would require that those who politically support these individuals also confront themselves.
Thus to do what Biff asks, to lionize a member from the Republican right would require that we overlook their respective collaboration with evil.
Failure to confront the means which disrespects human rights is to collaborate in that disrespect.
Lionizing one who collaborates with this evil is to be in condominium with them.
It would like saying that Rommel was a good general while overlooking who signed his paycheck.
August 27th, 2009 at 11:49 am
amen
August 27th, 2009 at 11:49 am
“Let me be the first, and probably only one, to say this one word that describes Ted Kennedy: Chappaquiddick.”
Woody is also concerned that Ted K. will now be a poster boy for “socialized medicine.”
You know, Ted K. made some big mistakes, and then he made up for them by decades of apparently sincere advocacy for making life better for the average American. At times like these, I get down on my knees and pray that the Lord will strike down Woody and others like him with a serious disease that their health insurance companies refuse to cover. The Lord works in mysterious ways, and perhaps this is the only way that He can reveal His Word to the Woodys of this world.
August 27th, 2009 at 11:50 am
And funny you bring up Rommel as he was known as ‘The Good German’ or something like that.
August 27th, 2009 at 11:51 am
I looked up Franken’s campaign website. Shite. Total sausage factory stuff. Talk about much ado about nada.
August 27th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Virtually everyone who met Teddy liked him. He was the truest man of the ould sod among the brothers. I was around and a part of the campaign of 1980, the only time in his life that Teddy had Secret Service protection (he should have had it from 1968 at least into the 1990s). The agents truly admired him. They went out of their way to do nice things for him. They talked of two things in particular: the constant physical pain he lived with, and the emotional pressure of thousands (yes thousands) of death threats he was getting every month.
Charlie Rose replayed a Feb 2007 interview last night in which Teddy gave a clear and very persuasive argument for health care reform, tied to a focus on support for and investment in “life science” research. He was brilliantly prepared to explain the details of any aspect of his proposals.
I think it is worth considering to what extent his death will and should influence the course of the health care/insurance reform legislation. Proponents do have to be careful about opportunism here. Using a death to promote a cause is unseemly.
In this case, however, and particularly in the Senate, it is valid to ask Senators like Hatch, McCain, Lugar [and yes, reg, he is a good guy], Snowe, Enzi…to show their appreciation for the man by turning his greatest goal into a reality as a posthumous achievement. If they really think that reform is wrong, then they shouldn’t buy it. But if they are just jumping on the “give Obama his Waterloo” train engineered by the far right and some insurance and medical service interests, they should think about Teddy Kennedy, and think about the impact reform will have on ordinary Americans. In other words, they should see the issue through Teddy’s eyes as they return to take their seats and address the issue of reform.
And by the way, the left needs to do a little of this as well…Teddy would findthe “public option or nothing” approach, while a good negotiating position, to be just as dangerous as the right’s complete abandonment of candor and honor.
Obama’s eulogy–what he says and what he doesn’t–could be a turning point in his presidency.
Teddy, rest in peace.
August 27th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Anna – Ted Kennedy was hardly an “iconoclast.” I think you’re already rewriting who the man was. He was a very good sausage maker…one of the best ever. (See “No Child”, “Prescription Drugs for Seniors”, and a host of others if you want to see some real sausage – complete with plenty of pig snouts!) And actually, Franken’s issues pages on his site were pretty well-conceived. But if there’s a “whiff of ego”about him, that could be a real handicap in the Senate! The great Senators were notoriously humble men…
August 27th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Michael Balter – That’s very “Old Testament.” Not that there’s anything wrong with that… In fact, we could use more well-targeted smiting.
August 27th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Reg,
Jesus said “I am come not to bring peace but a sword.”–Matthew 10:34
The more sophisticated Biblical scholars interpret this to mean that he advocated doing battle against the likes of Woody.
August 27th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
I’ll bet you got that line watching Pasolini films…
August 27th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
In my own way, reg, I am a Bible thumper.
August 27th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Liberals Ask God to Smiteth Conservatives
August 27th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
MB – I’ve been re-reading Niebuhr’s Irony of American History, and I have to say it’s one of the most incisive books of political philosophy ever. Not exactly a Bible “thumper” but one hell of a thinker out of that tradition.
In other news from HuffPo: At a town hall meeting Wednesday Sen. Jim Inhofe told Chickasha residents he does not need to read the 1,000 page health care reform bill, he will simply vote against it.
“I don’t have to read it, or know what’s in it. I’m going to oppose it anyways,” he said.
Inhofe said he was able to form such a strong, yet uninformed opinion through polls and the media.
August 27th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Anna Churchill Says:
August 27th, 2009 at 11:50 am
And funny you bring up Rommel as he was known as ‘The Good German’ or something like that.
—
See Camus: Letter to a German Friend
August 27th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
“I don’t have to read it, or know what’s in it. I’m going to oppose it anyways,”
Read: “I know where my campaign contributions come from!”
August 27th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
When is real health care gonna happen?
August 27th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
reg, not rewriting. very aware of his dark philandering booze filled past and aware that it took him time to become the man he did. Its not idol worshipping. its the dedication over a long period of time and genuine passion and outrage against the machine. He talked about his mistake on supporting the child bill etc.
I am more interested in the whole man…the complexities. and I make my judgments based on moments one can get a feeling there is a human being at work.
Franken’s website is shite, reg. there was nothing well thought out i could find just more of the worst sort of political wind and corny to boot. I would have expected a guy like him to at least have some snappy prose. be concise and to the point. his campaign site just a cookie cutter version of the same old embarrassing rhetoric. Already says he is no different from anyone else. fuck him. he will do nothing. trust me. he will have no allies and will only make incremental progress by having go along with the big boys and vote the way they tell him to curry any bit of favor or access.
Jesus said “I am come not to bring peace but a sword.”–Matthew 10:34
The more sophisticated Biblical scholars interpret this to mean that he advocated doing battle against the likes of Woody.
Jesus and I are on the same page.
August 27th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Michael Crosby, appreciate your saying far more eloquently what I did.
I am already angry about the eulogy and it hasnt happened because someone should come out with something as eloquent and passionate as many of the speeches delivered by the Kennedy’s.
Ted Sorenson should be asked to write if not give the eulogy. RFK Jr or Jo Jr should give it if not Sorenson. Don’t know how good of speakers TKs kids are. RFK jr despite a speech disability is very articulate and impassioned.
One wants to see some anger one wants a little John the Baptist if not the Jesus of Matthew.
reg, you obviously never saw some of the footage of Kennedy howling on the senate floor.
August 27th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
“The no-class Democrats”
Coming from someone like Woody, the master of projection, that’s a compliment.
August 27th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
In fact they just played one on Larry King on the minimum wage issue. Shakespearian.
August 27th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
Jim, Reg, don’t forget that there were plenty of Dems that voted for it in the house that hadn’t read the thing either. Is that any different?
August 27th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
Anna,
I don’t know Franken myself, but I know a lot of people who know him and worked with him, and the universal report is that he’s the real deal. I certainly don’t know how he’ll turn out as a Senator, but he was going to Minnesota to stump for candidates and raise money long before he was running himself. He ponied up when it counted and when he wasn’t getting anything out of it.
He’s also been described to me by various sources as serious about the job, and always prepared on the issues.
Like I said, the jury’s out, but I don’t share your pessimism, and don’t think you have any basis for your prediction at this point beyond the bile you have for all things not radical.
August 27th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
GM – perhaps you could name those who haven’t read it – or more to the point who haven’t had their staffs read it and brief them extensively. I’m sure there are vague charges floating around the Wingnutosphere about Dems not reading the bill in its entirety. But since most bills are never read in their entirety, except by staffers, that’s a pretty lame charge.
To match the brazen idiocy of the ridiculous Inhofe, you’d really have to find a Senator or Congressman who baldly stated, “I haven’t read it, I don’t have to read it OR KNOW WHAT’S IN IT. I’m going to vote for it anyway.”
Yes, that would be the same thing.
August 27th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
No, fuck you Anna. You’re ranting and pulling a Woody.
August 27th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
“you have any basis for your prediction at this point beyond the bile”
Ya think ?
August 28th, 2009 at 5:32 am
August 28th, 2009 at 7:11 am
Why the dissing of Franken, Anna?
I doubt anyone goes from first time candidate to Lion of the Senate, but c’mon, this is a two-fer: Franken is in and Coleman is out. Looking back at the 2008 race, the little stash of cash I sent the Franken campaign might have been the most effective political donation I’ve ever made.
Of course we have to wait and see what kind of senator he’ll become. I’m betting Franken will be a keeper. Just saying.
August 28th, 2009 at 7:48 am
reg, are you referring to my hunch about Franken?
I said: I hoped I was wrong. And that I was basing my opinion on intuition. I did qualify my remarks. I then looked at his website and was utterly dismayed on how hoakey (hokey?) it was. Not a word different than any other candidate going on in windy terms with little substance or innovation.
My point about Franken is that given his background and supposed wit– the kind most political satirists have–behind that is often a radical form of common sense and ability to coin ideas– to get to the point. I don’t see that in him. Nor did I in that one adolescent book about Bush calling him a liar. I am sure he is sincere he is burning with the need to do something. I don’t doubt he is capable of studying the issues and an able to articulate them. I just dont see him as being effective. I only see him as someone who wants to play with the big boys. A kind of inflation.
I will qualify again: there is something about him that turns me off and my intuitive hunches are usually right.
I hope I am wrong in this case and will gladly eat humble pie.
August 28th, 2009 at 8:17 am
I was referring to ” fuck him. he will do nothing. trust me”
August 28th, 2009 at 10:09 am
Ooooooh, this is soooo sensitive.
Huffington Post: What Would Mary Jo Kopechne Have Thought of Ted’s Career?
Would Mary Jo Kopechne have thought that Ted Kennedy killing her would have helped his career and would she feel that her death was worth it?!!!
Yeah, worth it about as much as Sharon Tate thought furthering Charles Manson’s career was worth her death.
You liberals just fall all over yourselves so much for phonies that you can’t help but look stupid.
August 28th, 2009 at 10:56 am
With all the discussion about progressive ideals the link to this just arrived:
via email from a sort of step brother announcing the memorial for his 96 year old mother/wife of my late father.
Her wish was for any memorial donation to go to the Wellstone Action org.
August 28th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
“You liberals…”
I just love those all inclusive statements.
August 28th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
oops forgot the link. nevermind
August 28th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
In sizing up Kennedy’s personal flaws, the little matter
of having two relatives shot to death in the span of five
years seems to go virtually unmentioned. This may well
have left him in a state unfit for public service, but it
surely made rational people more prone to forgive.
That’s rational people, Woody, you’re off the hook.
Marc Cooper’s hapless skills at sizing up character
take another hit from Mike Huckabee today, who’s radio
show defines the bottom of this barrel thus far. During the
campaign we read of Huck’s “fundamental decency” from
Marc Cooper, who was cutting him a break for releasing
a murdering rapist(who murdered and raped again) under
pressure from nutball Clinton haters in Arkansas.
August 28th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
You’re quite the charmer there Third.
Do you always use someone elses lawn to take a dump?
August 29th, 2009 at 7:13 am
Jim Hitchcock, you Dodger fans….