That ‘Other’ September 11: 1973
Some scenes from Santiago, Chile September 11, 1973.
Photos:
– The presidential palace in flames in downtown Santiago is where I had my office on that morning.
– The man in the helmet, President Salvador Allende, was my boss. He killed himself a few hours after this picture was taken.
–The four men seated around the table were the terrorist perpetrators of the coup who abolished a century’s worth of democratic institiutions.
The casualties of their 17 year rule:
3200 civilians murdered.
Nearly 1200 of those “disappeared.”
Approximately 80,000 arrested .
Systematic and institutionalized torture.
A half-million or more fleeing in exile.
Current Status of the Chief Terrorist:
September 10th, 2004 at 10:39 pm
He’s 88 years old, he will never see time in jail, he’ll never have to fork over his assets. He’ll never go to trial. Ditto Kissinger, etc.
September 11th, 2004 at 5:26 am
Let us remember, humbly, all those who’ve perished on this day, and scorn those who profit from their deaths.
September 11th, 2004 at 5:27 am
The above was from “santo” (the name field’s not workin’).
September 11th, 2004 at 10:26 am
30 years later and libs are STILL fighting over Allende and Pinochet!
Good thing yours is the “ideology of the future, not the past” like those Neanderthal conservatives who want to “go back to the 50s”….you only want to go back to the 60s!
September 12th, 2004 at 6:45 am
We’re not “fighting over” them; we haven’t forgotten them – a different thing entirely. Nor do we (well, I, at least) want to go back to anywhere.
September 12th, 2004 at 7:57 am
Is it really only 3.2 thousand?
I mean, look at the commies in Cambodia — the Leftists seem to have much less complaint about the US leaving SE Asia after Kerry’s Winter Soldier testimony.
Not 3 200 ; not 32 000 ; not 320 000 ; over 2 000 000.
Civilians. Murdered. Because America left and stopped fighting the evil.
Not 10 x worse, 100 x worse, but nearly 1000 x worse.
There was a fine letter from an exile in London, who longs to go back to Chile. I thought of you, Marc, and the fine job you’re doing noting the weak points of both Bush and Kerry (almost the most balanced I’ve found).
You don’t note how FEW exiles of the commies there are — they don’t leave witnesses, nor families of witnesses.
I have to say, if it’s only 3 thousand, it’s NOT, really, so many. “Every murder matters” yes — but not really. Quantity also counts.
Truly I’d be more outraged at 30 000 murders; and nearly as upset at 300 000 as I am at Rwanda.
I’m sorry for you and all your friends, family, and other innocents who were victims of injustice. It’s no surprise to me that Chile is more democratic now than Cuba is; but those thoughts lead to alternative comparisons.
America was MORE guilty, and MORE wrong, for the 1973 deaths in Chile, than the 2001 deaths in New York, Sept. 11. And, too, more guilty, because it stopped fighting, for the Cambodia genocide. Which was maybe 1000 times (I thought only 100) worse than what happened in Chile.
I’m much more ashamed of the US leaving SE Asia, than supporting Pinochet.
September 12th, 2004 at 9:09 am
Tom says,
“I have to say, if it’s only 3 thousand, it’s NOT, really, so many.”
Do you apply the same contempt for the 3,000 murdered on 9/11?
As for Cambodia, you have overlooked the fact that the U.S. supported Pol Pot, lobbying hard for the Khmer Rouge to have a place as the Cambodian reps in the UN Assembly. They also armed and trained his fighters in a bid to oust the Vietnamese, who had evicted the Khmer Rouge from Cambodia.
September 12th, 2004 at 12:37 pm
Tom … we have engaged in civil discourse ont this site and we will continue to do so. If u have noticed, I have slammed those (mostly on the left) who attempt to “rate” moral offenses. This is done frequently to belittle the importance of 9/11 — the usual argumentfrom the left being that the 3,000 Americans killed is dwarfed by the the millions killed as a reult of US foreign policy (Vietnam, cambodia, Indonesia, E Timor, Central America etc etc). These are of course fatuous and ultimately offensive arguments, as you would agree.
In my posting commemorating the victims of Latin America’s worst dictatorship in modern history, I draw no such equivalencies. I dont even mention the US role because it is so well known. I merely state the facts.
I understand your arguments are made in good faith and I even understand their underlying logic — though I disagree with the premise regarding Cambodia. But I think you undermine if not totally invalidate your arguments by flubbing off 3200 deaths in Chile as some sort of small or insigfnicant number. Imagine your own outrage if I had written that in Chile – a small country of 10 million at the time– the 3,000 deaths were EQUIVALENT on a per cap basis to 75,000 in the U.S… that the traumatic effects of the dictatorship lasted not only 17 years of its reign but also echoed on for 20 years after, creating two generations of Chileans (so far) that have little notion of real democracy and who continue to quiver in the face of any authority. By comparision, I could have written, that the 3K deaths at the Twin Towers — on a per cap basis — were tiny.. it would be like 40 or 50 people dying in a country the size of Chile… that the power of Al Qaeda compared to that of the US is also tiny and that Bin Laden’s impact on the US will be much slighter than Pinochet’s in Chile. And therefore the 9/11 of 1973 was MUCH worse than the 9/11 of 2001.
Now, Tom, I would never write such stuff.. nor do I think it… but it does resemble what you wrote above. These sort of comparisons of torture, terror and oppression are in the end meaningless and become mere rhetorical debating points that get us no closer to the deeper truths. I gaurantee you that the images of La Moneda on fire are every but as traumatic througout the Chilean population as are the images of the WTC for Americans.
Two final, small points.. The CHilean democracy you refer to today as being much healthier than Cuba is presided over the Chilean Socialist Party, the same part of Salvador Allende. It has not been the pro-pinochet forces that have reconstructed (what is in fact a tenuous) democracry, but rather those forces persecuted by him.. sp let’s get that much right.
And while I appreciate the gesture, and I mean this respectfully, I dont seek or require anyone’s sympathy regarding the deaths of Chileans close to me.
Keep posting, Tom. MARC
September 12th, 2004 at 1:55 pm
f u have noticed, I have slammed those (mostly on the left) who attempt to “rate” moral offenses.
–i’ve not seen anyone ‘rate’ moral offenses. i have seen people (i.e. me) say that making invalid comparisons doesn’t help the cause of human rights.
–
This is done frequently to belittle the importance of 9/11 — the usual argumentfrom the left being that the 3,000 Americans killed is dwarfed by the the millions killed as a reult of US foreign policy (Vietnam, cambodia, Indonesia, E Timor, Central America etc etc). These are of course fatuous and ultimately offensive arguments, as you would agree.
–it’s not offensive to state that taking note of one horror (i.e. 9-11) and not caring about other horrors that the US gov’t is directly implicated in is inconsistent, not to mention destructive to the cause of ending both kinds of horrors.
September 12th, 2004 at 2:07 pm
Tom, I can’t see anything to regret about leaving SE Asia really. Look at Iraq right now, can ya think of any good reason not to leave Iraq? After an invasion and occupation that promised them freedom, Iraqis have seen their security evaporate, their state smashed and their country fragment into a lawless archipelago ruled by militias, bandits and kidnappers. If anything, we can learn from SE Asia and leave Iraq sooner.
September 12th, 2004 at 7:52 pm
Marc,
I’m struggling with this comment. I want to strangle the sons-of-bitches who murdered 3000 innocent Chileans (a number that was routinely quoted 10 times higher back when I was in college) and your friend Charlie Horman, but….
There was the beginning of a civil war in Chile. Would it have been better if Allende had won? Show me a country where the Marxists took control and killed less than 3000. I really don’t want to make an argument here, I’m really struggling. I’m really just asking a question to an honest person who was there and knows much more about the subject than I could hope to. Marc, would have been better if Allende had won?
September 12th, 2004 at 8:09 pm
To the above comment:
Didn’t the Chilean left lack military organization? At least that’s what I read from “Pinochet and Me”
September 12th, 2004 at 8:11 pm
Allende already had won. He was elected. Not only that, but he had a 40 year record as a distinguihed parliamentarian and democrat and that is why his government maintained absolute rule of law. chile was not on the brink of civil war– as only one side, the army, had weapons. The killing that ensued after the coup was strictly one sided and there was no resistance to speak of.
I cant predict what would have happened if Allende had served out his mandate. Most likely he would have been peaceably succeeded in the next election by a Christian Democrat. But to be honest, I think, in retrospect, the question is moot. Fact is, Allende would never have been permitted to finish his tenure. Those who overthrew him did not do so to protect democracy– given that THEY abolished it for nrealy two decades seems to seal that argument. They overthrew Allende as an act of armed class war– to re-secure the positions of economic privilege that had been threated by Allendes redestibutist policies. I dont believe there is any rational way to justify his overthrow and the mayhem that followed as in any way a pre-emptive move to defend democracy.
Remember that while all marxist regimes have ended in authoritarian rule, the Chilean case was authentically unique. It came to power peaceably, elected, and as a coalition of well-established pariliamentary parties, all with long traditions of playing by the democratic rules.
In any case, we will never know. In the end, off of the worst things Allende was accused of threatening materialized as soon as he was overthrown– by literal fascists.
September 12th, 2004 at 9:27 pm
Show me a country where the Marxists took control and killed less than 3000.
–Chile. Nicaragua. The Spanish Republic.
Show me a socialist country where they killed less than 3,000 that wasn’t invaded or indirectly invaded by the US and overthrown?
September 13th, 2004 at 7:11 am
To be really fair we must talk and write about all criminals who undercover their actions with an ideological statement. Yes, I’m talking about Fidel Castro because Pinochet and him are the same kind of dictator. Does’nt matter if one of them show the right hand to kill people or is the left hand where the weapon is.
September 13th, 2004 at 7:41 am
How about the mega-million dead when capitalists take over a country? We can start with the United States and go from there . . .
September 13th, 2004 at 8:32 am
. Yes, I’m talking about Fidel Castro because Pinochet and him are the same kind of dictator.
–yes, I’ve heard that Castro is worse than Hitler…
May 30th, 2005 at 8:43 am
Show me a socialist country where they killed less than 3,000 that wasn’t invaded or indirectly invaded by the US and overthrown?
–You’re more right than you know. The only reason those Communists killed less than 3,000 is because they were overthrown. (And just for the record, the Sandies killed 8,000 in the first three years)
May 30th, 2005 at 8:45 am
Show me a socialist country where they killed less than 3,000 that wasn’t invaded or indirectly invaded by the US and overthrown?
–That’s more right than one might think. The only reason those Communists killed less than 3,000 is because they were overthrown. (And just for the record, the Sandies killed 8,000 in the first three years)
September 11th, 2004 at 2:06 pm
Santiago, 1973
American journalist Marc Cooper reminds us of the ‘other September 11′ on his blog. He knows a thing or two about it as well…
September 13th, 2004 at 1:42 pm
The Other September 11th
Marc Cooper, who has probably forgotten more than I will ever know about Augusto Pinochet, has a thoughtful perspective on the other September 11th.
March 20th, 2006 at 4:01 am
We all agree, almost without exception, that Augusto is a murderer, just as many with ostensible legitimacy throughout the world are. We also mostly agree that hatred, vengance and ill will are unavoidable as a matter of thought, but do not serve us in practice and leave us with empty hearts. Speaking as a man with relatives who were tortured and killed by elements of the Pinochet government, I would like all those family victims to see justice administered as much as humanly possible, but without acting and setting examples consistent with the behavior of the perpetrators of those crimes.
We must not risk or sacrifice our principles in exchange for selfish desires of revenge, no matter how its justification may be advocated, how atrocious the acts were or the severity of the pain that resulted.
It is time for us, as people, regardless of geography, culture, tradition or consensus to stop and reverse the environment of aggression and violence that has been given legitimacy and therefore been permitted to exist throughout the world.
Those of us, whether spiritual or not, and, regardless of political ideology and practice, who have reached a level of consciousness and understanding regarding the cause of violence and its kind of “genetic” characteristics, have a responsibility to help break its cycle. This is done most effectively by the simple practice of life and the examples that we set.
Of course, I am interested in the past and believe that there are absolute truths, but find myself becoming more driven to understanding and spreading knowledge that will ultimately change the culture of violence and hatred to one of compassion and tolerance.
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