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MEVACOR FOR SALE

MEVACOR FOR SALE, My one and only daughter, Natasha Vargas-Cooper, publishes an opinion piece in this Sunday's New York Times about the impact, good and bad, of cops and firefighters moving to the front of the current labor war sweeping the Midwest.



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By NATASHA VARGAS-COOPER

Published: April 2, 2011Los Angeles

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570 Responses to “MEVACOR FOR SALE”

  1. Michael Turmon Says:

    This was a smart pick-up on an important part of this labor dispute. It’s a pleasure to hear from such a perceptive voice. A cut above the usual NYT op-eds.

  2. reg Says:

    Perhaps Maureen Dowd – or so as not to make this a “gender issue”, Ross Douthat or David Brooks – could be retired and replaced by…

    Naaah! Times editors aren’t smart enough to do make that move.

  3. Randy Paul Says:

    Well done and absolutely on point.

  4. Degreed cryptozoologist Says:

    The days of those fatfat pensions being at the end of the rainbow for all the incompetent public workers is ending. They are over-paid as it is when they go through the motions of doing any work, so let them eat cake, as that famous lady said.

  5. reg Says:

    Aside from the disconnect with actual fact, the identification of this bloviating conservatard with Marie Antoinette is telling.

    (The communists at Forbes magazine have a slightly different take:

    http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/ )

  6. Degreed cryptozoologist Says:

    Thanks for the link, partner. Its all so clear to me now. We taxpayers aren’t on the hook for anything, so there must be some other reason states are cracking under the strain of pension benefits.
    Jumpin jimminy christmas, reg, you sure are ignorant. Dumber than an 8 pound box of rocks.

  7. reg Says:

    Yeah – tax cut “Starve-the-Beast” dogmas the economic elites have spoon-fed idiots like you. Your kind have busted this country and are pointing fingers everywhere except at the guilty parties – yourselves!

    Here’s, as example, info on Christy Whitman’s bait-and-switch with the NJ pensions that drove her state into the ditch – I’m linking this assuming you are capable of comprehending anything more complicated than a TeaBagger’s sign:

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/201103070032

    This is typical.

    Now go to hell…

  8. GM troller Says:

    “degreed crypto” is the pathetic GM Roper, trolling as usual.

  9. Jim R Says:

    You ought to expand your horizons reg. Your sources of reading material and information.

    A steady diet of mediamatters, nyt, motherjones, msnbc, etc, which only reinforce what you already believe, can atrophy critical thought……and make you fat.

  10. Celeste Fremon Says:

    Excellent piece. The descriptions of the front porch/kitchen table discussions with women were just perfect. Very perceptive work.

    Go Natasha!

    (And of course I linked.)

  11. Jim R Says:

    Judging from our enormous State and Federal debt, incurred overwhelmingly by more and more poorly managed social ‘programs’ on autopilot, we have been doing a terrible job of Starving-the-Beast.

    The facts of life, the reality, are we now live in a global economy me must compete in whether we like it or not. In the past, most of the competition for business and jobs was between States in the United States, with the Feds still getting their taxes from business and employees regardless of what State a business moved too. This has changed big time.

    We must work harder and smarter…..for less, sorry. Regarding smarter, the most important driver of competitiveness and high incomes, we have an antiquated non-competitive educational system that rewards mediocrity and underpays quality and merit, ie, hard work. It is destroying our teachers incentives, students interest, and taxpayers pocket books while filling their own…..and the politicians that depend on them for THEIR JOBS.

  12. reg Says:

    Jim R – You don’t understand the strategy of “Starve the Beast.” It was a deliberate scheme to drive up huge deficits telling the lie that tax cuts would increase government revenues, so that the government would break under the strain of debt. That’s actually not happening at the federal level, despite the hysterics – although running up those GOP deficits as % of GDP in “good times” rather than just during downturns was completely nuts, but the scare tactics have worked and states are bearing the brunt – which if we didn’t have such large GOP-driven deficits the fed could help out more.

    Conservative economist and Reagan treasury official Bruce Bartlett wrote in Forbes last year:
    (T)o a large extent our current budgetary problems stem from the widespread
    adoption of an idea by Republicans in the 1970s called “starve the beast.” It says that
    the best, perhaps only, way of reducing government spending is by reducing taxes…
    The impact has been perverse – raising spending and making deficits worse. (Bartlett – Forbes.com, 5.10.10)

    And of course, David Stockman, Reagan’s budget director wrote last year:“This debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party’s embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don’t matter if they result from tax cuts.”

    Now the piece-of-sh*t extremist, Paul Ryan of Wisconsin, a fan of the sicko Ayn Rand, is trying to deliver the coup-de-grace to Medicare, Medicaid etc.using this bullshit smokescreen that they’ve created.

    These fuckers have done more actual damage to America than the Weathermen dreamed of… They’re mad fiscal bombers.

  13. reg Says:

    JIm R – when 80% of the benefits of economic growth over the past 30 years go to the top 1%, I really don’t want to hear any bullshit about “working harder & smarter for less” put forward as some “word of wisdom” – as opposed to cravenly kissing the ass of the economic elite.

    You’ll buy any BS your overlords are selliing, won’t you?

  14. reg Says:

    I’m waiting for a fact-laden rebuttal from Roper. Looks like he just high-tailed it. Because, of course, he’s got nuthin’.

  15. reg Says:

    “working harder & smarter for less” -

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2011-03-31-ceo-pay-2010.htm

  16. Johnny Holmes Says:

    Ok, since none of our right wing friends are responding I’ll carry the banner.

    Yes, we live in a global economy. We need to compete. You want companies to stop outsourcing and moving manufacturing overseas then show them what you’re willing to do for a job–any job.

    If a worker in Korea is making 50 cents and hour then offer to work for 40 cents an hour. Obviously we need to get rid of the minimum wage so we can compete. Asinine job destroying health and environmental regulations need to go too. Stop expecting the Mommy state to protect you from everything. WE’RE BROKE !!

    You want health and retirement benefits? Then save part of that 50 cents and hour and pay for them yourself. Don’t expect any handouts from the job creating corporations IF you expect them to offer you a job.

    Be a MAN and stand stand on your own 2 feet. You want more money? Then work harder or train yourself at night for a better job. And don’t cry that you’re already working 2 jobs to get by. There’s 24 hours in a day last time I checked.

    Stop being a sniveling whiny America hating liberal pussy. Get a fucking job!!

  17. Johnny Holmes Says:

    And we need a flat tax. Job creators shouldn’t be punished for their success. Why should a job creator have to pay a larger percentage of his taxes than some lazy over paid government worker?

  18. Johnny Holmes Says:

    If you’re tired of having a Kenyon Socialist Muslim president…

    http://michelebachmannforpresidentin2012.blogspot.com/

  19. reg Says:

    If anyone is interested in digging deeper into the state budget issues beyond the hype, soundbites and misleading rhetoric (aka “bullshit”) this is a good start:

    http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3372

  20. reg Says:

    Johnny – Trump is a far more appropriate standard-bearer for the GOP. He’s totally full of shit – Bachmann is, I’m afraid, sincere!

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-22-2011/back-in-black—trump-2012

  21. reg Says:

    Kenyan? I thought they were calling him Keynesian.

    Nevermind…

  22. Johnny Holmes Says:

    Kenya is that country that borders Africa. I don’t know where Keynesia is. Get your facts straight.

  23. reg Says:

    I think Keynesia is in northern Europe.

  24. qdpsteve Says:

    Uh oh, time for Reg to go apeshit on Andrew Sullivan. :-)

  25. Johnny Holmes Says:

    @qdpsteve
    Every objective study that’s ever been made proves single payer health coverage to be cheaper than insurance company coverage.

    Ryan wants to replace a cheaper, more effective solution with a more expensive, deficit deepening solution.

    On deficit reduction terms, Ryan’s budget proposal should therefore be flushed down the crapper, along with Sullivan’s endorsement of it.

  26. reg Says:

    Sullivan has unleashed his own inner ape-shit with this – any offering on my part would be redundant.

  27. reg Says:

    JH – As I’m sure you know, they don’t care…the point of Ryan’s proposal has nothing to do with defiit reducition, but to hew to his “Atlas Shrugged” POV. He’s an extremist in thrall of a pathological “philosophy.”

  28. qdpsteve Says:

    JH – As I’m sure you know, they don’t care

    Reg: just out of curiosity, are you referring to “them”, or to me also?

    Anyhoo, everyone here should greatly respect Reg’s analytical ability. He got his degree in psychology from the Springfield Heights Institute of Technology. ;-)

    But seriously folks: Johnny Holmes, your response– civil and constructive as it was– is appreciated, whether I agree with it or not.

  29. reg Says:

    I am referring to Ryan and his “Tax Cuts Uber Alles” ilk who have deliberately run up deficits over 30 years in order to take down the government – lying about “fiscal responsibility” the whole time. (Actual fiscal conservatives such as Bartlett and Stockman agree with me on that issue, although I’m sure we’d part ways on an overall agenda – frankly, I’ve never seen a coherent response to their assertions about the crazy state of “conservatism” in the actually-existing-GOP. I have no idea where you fit into that scheme of things – I assume that you don’t or don’t fit comfortably, given your response.

    As for the rest of it, you seem not to have any counter-argument to the points about the crank extremist Ryan and the “Starve the Beast” pathology that brought the political discourse to this point of sheer dishonesty and denial, and decided to parade that fact.

    I have no degrees. Nor is my IQ as high as the great GM Roper claims his is. But I can read and the lack of formal education hasn’t stopped me from being considerably less foolish and far better informed than preening conservatards who try to hide their aggressive ignorance, intellectual incompetence and social nihilism behind mediocre credentials.

  30. Johnny Holmes Says:

    @qdpsteve

    You disagree? Your counter argument?

  31. qdpsteve Says:

    Johnny Holmes, I’m on more of a reconnaissance mission here at Dissonance that a combat mission. Thanks for the opportunity though. :-)

  32. qdpsteve Says:

    (And no folks, the Koch Brothers didn’t send me. Though I almost wish they had– $$ ka-CHING $$!!!1!)

    ;-)

  33. qdpsteve Says:

    ;-) B) :-) Plus I’m :-D addicted :-) to smileys B) :-)

  34. Johnny Holmes Says:

    @qdpsteve

    Geez, I was just asking for your opinion. Nobody suffers bodily injury here.

  35. qdpsteve Says:

    Nobody suffers bodily injury here.

    That’s not what Roper and Woody told me. They said Reg sent someone to their house. ;-)

    We’ll debate another time, thanks again for the invite.

  36. qdpsteve Says:

    Oops, that was supposed to link to these.

  37. Johnny Holmes Says:

    @qdpsteve

    You hang with Roper and Woody? Tell me, does Roper really post here with different names? Seems kinda chicken shit if he does.

  38. qdpsteve Says:

    No, I don’t hang with ‘em. I do look at GM’s blog occasionally though. I also look at Beautiful Horizons (Reg/Randy’s blog) from time to time.

  39. degreed cryptozoologist Says:

    Sorry about not replying to you sooner, reg. My friends and i have been busy remarking on your overall ignorance and stupidity about hard working folk like us not being on the hook for state pensions. I suppose all these stories of state governments on both sides trying to negotiate with unions to have them pitch in a little to help bail them out doesn’t register to a dumbass like you.
    I’ve come across some ignorant people on the internet, but brother you take the cake and the icing too.

  40. reg Says:

    The Marxist-Leninists at Forbes(.COM!) have more on Ryan’s Kill Medicare scheme:

    http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/04/04/gop-to-propose-obamacare-for-seniors/

    qdp – read that one and come back and tell me how Ryan is anything but a rank hypocrite pushing a poison pill on seniors while enriching private insurers at government expense.

    Roper – you are embarrassing yourself as usual. You’ve got nuthin’ so you just call names. I’ve got a few for you, but frankly they’re not even worth typing, Everyone here with an IQ above room temperature has your number. Now go play with Woody…

  41. reg Says:

    Incidentally, when I use the term “conservatards”, it’s not hyperbole:

    http://thinkprogress.org/2011/04/04/scott-walker-hires-dropout/

    These people are not just aggressively ignorant, they have no shame nor a moral center. I truly believe it when I say that Donald Trump is the most “qualified” candidate to represent the actually-existing-”conservative”-movement. At the least, he’s honest about being a scumbag swimming in self-regard.

  42. Jim R Says:

    “You (qdpsteve) seem not to have any counter-argument to the points about the crank extremist Ryan and the “Starve the Beast” pathology that brought the political discourse to this point of sheer dishonesty and denial, and decided to parade that fact.”

    According to this source (http://tinyurl.com/4csgfpk) the President’s total requested spending is $3.83 Trillion, $1.56 Trillion more than we have. If Congress approved this budget, 40 cents out of every dollar spent would have to be borrowed, this is in addition to the 14 Trillion we are already in debt due to over spending.

    Mr. Ryan, and other adults, are simply proposing we spend 60 Billion less, out of the horrendous $1.56 Trillion the President is asking to borrow. This amounts to 2 cents less borrowing out of the 40 cents being proposed.

    The big spenders are calling this radical and extreme folks. What would happen to you fairly quickly if you were spending 40% more than you earned each year, and adding it to your credit card balance? What if your wife insisted the family must spend only 38% more than they have this year? What if the credit card company either refused to let you borrow any more, or more likely, raised your interest rate to compensate for your their HIGH RISK.

    Who is being radical and extreme here? Who is really in denial? Who is trying to be just minimally RESPONSIBLE, while getting yelled at, attacked, denigrated, personally destroyed?

    Reg or Ryan…..you decide.

  43. Dan O Says:

    The big spenders are calling this radical and extreme folks. What would happen to you fairly quickly if you were spending 40% more than you earned each year, and adding it to your credit card balance? …

    Jim R pulls out the laughably ill-informed and ahistorical “family budget” metaphor! I thought this bit of stupidity had been put to bed, but, like a zombie it refuses to die. It’s such an asinine and disconnected notion that it falls into the category of arguments that don’t really need a response. Kind of like homeopathy.

  44. Jim R Says:

    Government must work harder and smarter. It must rid itself, fire, agency heads who fuck-up royally, just like private industry does, when they mismanage their departments by not only not controlling cost, but paying out billions of dollars to crooks and frauds from lack of OVERSITE!

    This is the key difference between private business and the public’s business. Private business must closely mind their business spending decision or go broke, losing their lively hood, or worse, the families fortune. They are spending, and RISKING, their OWN money. Quite an incentive to pay close attention.

    But what if your are not spending and risking anything? Managers of the public’s business, bureaucracies are not spending their own money and RISKING NOTHING, including their fucking job. When is the last time you heard of an incompetent bureaucrat get fired, or held accountable for wasting our money in any way?

    Rhetorical fucking question……obviously.

  45. Dan O Says:

    This is the key difference between private business and the public’s business. Private business must closely mind their business spending decision or go broke, losing their lively hood …

    Have you ever worked in the private sector? With your eyes open?

  46. av2ts Says:

    When is the last time you heard of an incompetent bureaucrat get fired, or held accountable for wasting our money in any way?

    It happens all the time. Just last week, the City of Cudahy fired its City Manager and Director’s of Human Resources and City Clerk for $ irregularities. In LA, the Director of the City’s Housing Department was sacked 2 weeks ago for misdeeds. The chief of LAUSD (school district) construction “resigned” 2 weeks ago because of overpaying private contractors for work that could have been done in house for cheap. The LA Community College District facilities and planning chief was also sacked a couple weeks ago for mismanagement and waste. In Vernon, their City Manager was fired not too long ago… shall I continue?

  47. problem solver Says:

    Reduce military spending.

    Return the top bracket of the marginal tax rates to the levels of the golden years of the U.S. economy (post-WWII).

    Budget fixed.

  48. McGehee Says:

    “…deliberately run up deficits over 30 years…”

    Really? And yet Obama tripled the debt in just a couple of years.

    So, who’s trying to take down the government?

    “Return the top bracket of the marginal tax rates to the levels of the golden years of the U.S. economy (post-WWII). Budget fixed.”

    The government’s budget gets fixed and everybody else’s gets smashed to bits. The rosy(-ish) job numbers are misleading, the inflation figures don’t take into account actual impact on people’s buying power, and incomes are growing at pre-WW2 rates.

    Anyone who would triage in favor of an overbloated government at the expense of 350 million people in real economic pain may need to re-examine his self-image.

  49. reg Says:

    Jim R – whether you can comprehend this or not, deficit spending is absolutely essential to recovery in a deep recession. That’s why the GOP’s running up deficits when times were better or for crackpot shit like Iraq was so destructive – and deliberately so.

    This is basic stuff. Anyone who argues that the must urgent matter for the country is to cut spending at this point in an extremely fragile “recovery” is – not to put too fine a point on it – simply an idiot with zero understanding of pragmatic economics or how government budgets are different from your Aunt Ethel’s.

    You might start with this article by Clive Crook of the Financial Times: http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2011/04/clive-crook-is-shrill.html

  50. reg Says:

    To call the little Ayn Randite Paul Ryan “an adult” demonstrates just how childish Jim R is. This is nutty stuff coming from the intellectual and moral peanut gallery – sophomoric and self-indulgent, with absolutely no empirical evidence to support the fraudulent claims.

    Jim – you are embarrassing yourself.

  51. reg Says:

    McGeHeeRoper is topping his usual dishonesty – this isn’t even laughable. Just pathological.

    http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036

    Roper is a lying sack of shit…always has been and always will be. That 140 IQ hasn’t done this moron a bit of good. Nor the degrees…

  52. reg Says:

    The half baked Mr Roper might also want to take a look at this inflation chart over the past 10 years:

    http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx?dsInflation_currentPage=0

    We’ve had deflation due to the economic crisis, and no inflation under Obama that has matched even the lowest year under Bush.

    (Also for what it’s worth, inflation in food and gas prices have virtually nothing to do with fiscal or monetary policies of the federal government – they are mostly based in external events such as weather or political turmoil – which is why the Fed has historically excluded them and uses “core inflation” in calculations to determine monetary policies.)

    The aggressive ignorance of these TeaBagger petty ideologues is stunning and would be a joke if it wasn’t driving the country even further into the ditch. These fuckers are so self-absorbed that they don’t even bother attempting to process any information that runs deeper than an infantile impulse.

  53. reg Says:

    And of course, the trajectory of declining growth in wages, with 80% going to the top 1%, began around that watershed year of 1980 when their Saint Ronald brought “Morning to America!”

    Idiots…

  54. reg Says:

    That’s “80% of growth in incomes going to the top 1%”

  55. reg Says:

    oops – my bad. Looks like Mcgeehee might actually be a different moron…same ilk however.

  56. problem solver Says:

    “everybody else’s gets smashed to bits”

    You sure have a non-standard way of defining “everybody else”. I never knew that all American households earned upwards of $350,000 annually.

    I stand by my proposed solution:

    1) reduce military spending
    2) increase marginal rates on the top income bracket

    Budget fixed. Prove it wrong.

  57. reg Says:

    McGeeheehee – assuming it’s actually the guy whose website is linked to that name – is a “Tax Cuts Uber Alles” ideologue, unhinged from even a minimal concept of what “fiscal responsibility” might look like ( i.e. not rushng to diminish revenues across the board and into the future if you haven’t actually cut spending accordingly.) These people are morons – they’ve acted like spoiled children, wanting their free lunch from the government since Daddy Reagan spoon-fed them with fantasies. Hopeless at the level of intellectual or moral integrity, but unfortunately they impact Congress and are currently trying to feed the country an even bigger bite of their sh*t sandwich.

  58. problem solver Says:

    On a topic more directly related to Marc’s post…

    How would you like a $82K/yr guv’mint job?

    – Are you without a college degree?
    – Do you have at least two DUI convictions?
    – Did your daddy funnel over $100K to a certain Republican governor in the Midwest?

    Congrats! You’re hired!

  59. reg Says:

    This guy is the perfect appointment to the Walker administration – he reflects the governor’s competence as well as his integrity.

  60. Jim R Says:

    “Bloviating, conservatard, dogmas, economic elites, spoon-fed idiots, completely nuts, scare tactics, piece-of-sh*t, extremist, sicko, bullshit, smokescreen, fuckers, mad, bombers, cravenly, kissing ass, overlords, bullshit, full of shit, extremist, radical, pathological, lying, crazy, crank, dishonesty, preening, ignorance, incompetence, nihilism, hypocrite, poison pill on seniors, IQ above room temperature, no shame, no moral center, scumbag, crackpot, zero understanding, childish, nutty, moral peanut, sophomoric, self-indulgent, fraudulent, embarrassing, laughable, sack of shit, moron, half baked,petty, ideologues, a joke, fuckers, self-absorbed, infantile.”

    This is reg’s expletive-deletes in this one thread alone, in response to comments made by others he disagrees with. Like most over-emotional and over-righteous liberals, if you disagree, you can only be one of two things; purposely dishonest or honestly stupid.

    Pathetic…….and sad.

  61. reg Says:

    The communists over at The Economist weigh in on the “immorality” of Ryans Kill Medicare plan:

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/04/medicare_reform

    and his dishonsty:

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2011/04/facts_and_figures

  62. reg Says:

    Andrew Sullivan’s ringing endorsement of Paul Ryan:

    “What I admire is Ryan’s willingness to cop to the suffering and sacrifice that the Bush years made inevitable in its fiscal irresponsibility.”

    With friends like Sullivan, Conservatards don’t need enemies…

  63. reg Says:

    Jim – if you can actually make an argument, make it. You’re the one who has offered nothing but glib, childish and ultimately extraordinarily ill-informed generalities rooted in…nothing…except perhaps wish-fulfillment.

    I’ve called this crap, crap and the people trying to sell it the morons they are. Tough shit! But I’ve also offered a lot of concrete, accessible information that is backed by some combination of rational, pragmatic analysis and data.

    You’ve got nuthin…so unless you can come back with more than a pathetic whine, I’ll repeat that this “Starve the Beast”, Ryanesque, Ayn Randite bullshit and it’s proponents are:

    “Bloviating, conservatard, dogmas, economic elites, spoon-fed idiots, completely nuts, scare tactics, piece-of-sh*t, extremist, sicko, bullshit, smokescreen, fuckers, mad, bombers, cravenly, kissing ass, overlords, bullshit, full of shit, extremist, radical, pathological, lying, crazy, crank, dishonesty, preening, ignorance, incompetence, nihilism, hypocrite, poison pill on seniors, IQ above room temperature, no shame, no moral center, scumbag, crackpot, zero understanding, childish, nutty, moral peanut, sophomoric, self-indulgent, fraudulent, embarrassing, laughable, sack of shit, moron, half baked,petty, ideologues, a joke, fuckers, self-absorbed, infantile.”

  64. reg Says:

    Incidentally, you screwed some of my bon mots up, but I’m not going to bother to go back and correct. I would hope the gist is apparent.

  65. Johnny Holmes Says:

    Hey Jim R. I won’t call you any names but this one made me laugh:
    This is the key difference between private business and the public’s business. Private business must closely mind their business spending decision or go broke, losing their lively hood, or worse, the families fortune. They are spending, and RISKING, their OWN money. Quite an incentive to pay close attention.
    I guess you were on vacation when GWB created TARP and saved Wall Street’s ass.

    Or to Dan O’s point, have you worked for a large corporation?

    If so, have you not see senior management waste money on everything from lavish executive perks to shady deals that only profit a few big shots at the expense of the company? I mean, seriously folks….

  66. Jim R Says:

    I refrain from circle-jerks for this very reason.

    You asked for an argument, I gave you one with supported facts and perspective. You disagree it is even an argument.

    Why would I have been expecting something different after all these threads? Because I AM stupid.

  67. Jim R Says:

    ….but at least still sane dammit.

  68. reg Says:

    Jim R – I have no idea why your “arguments” are so weak, glib, recycled from cliches and uncovincing. If you can explain with even smidgeon of logic or evidence how Ryancare could possibly be an improvement over medicare I’d love to hear it. Ryancare is a proposal for insurance exchanges in a private market (just like the one’s in “Obamacare” that Ryan dubbed a “Frankenstein’s monster” just a year ago when he was demagoging the ACA) partially funded by federal vouchers, that will consist solely of folks 67 and up (he’s also raising the eligibility age to participate in his scheme.) Thismeans almost everyone in these exchanges will have “pre-existing conditions,” not to mention the highest health care costs of any demographic – and they’ll have a government voucher in hand, based on some formula derived from current Medicare funding, trying to buy coverage from private insurers, whose overhead is more than 3 times that of Medicare.

    How Ryancare is anything other than a recipe for disaster, higher costs for seniors, less coverage and more government money channeled into for-profit pockets is beyond me.

    But maybe you’re smarter and better informed on these matters than I am, so have at it…

    I guess I’m a prick for telling the truth. If that’s the case, deal with it and don’t blame me for hurt feelings. Clean up your act and take some responsibility for recycling garbage.

  69. reg Says:

    Incidentally Jim – you routinely treat us to condescending sermons about the supposed immaturity of liberals. And lambasted government workers as “royal fuckups”, “crooks,” “frauds” and “incompetents” in your initial offering.

    So there’s a bit of hypocrisy coming from your corner. Personally, I think that faking respect or courtesies where none are deserved is fruitless when dealing with certain types that have proved themselves time and again to be exactly who you feared they were. Thirty years down the road, frustration turns into genuine anger.

  70. 4th Time Around (22) Says:

    This is a very worthwhile piece, one of the better things I’ve seen on the Times Op Ed in awhile. Alas, there are plenty of female GM Ropers, as willing as anyone to kill off the last of the unions and throw workers on the street. And they vote.

  71. reg Says:

    Because I think even a little truth – or perhaps even “reasoned analysis by impartial experts” – can set one free, I offer this regarding the resounding and all-important question, “Who is trying to be even minmally responsible…Reg or Ryan? You decide…”

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/cbo-gop-budget-would-increase-debt-then-stick-it-to-medicare-patients.php?ref=fpa

  72. AC Says:

    Tune into Matt Taibbi’s blogs in Rolling Stone. He is waging a one man vendetta to expose the Wall Street wankers. Great Stuff.

    Seems the Fed has been bailing out Gaddaffi for years. Cool

  73. Sergio Says:

    72 posts.

    I read about 6 . I agree with problem solver 100.

    The other 60+ posts were soporific pedantry by what must be a needy blog program.

    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

  74. zzzzzzzzzzzzz Says:

    @Sergio: Shut the fuck up, already. Your schtick is beyond tired.

  75. Degreed cryptozoologist Says:

    Our resident moron reg says…
    “But maybe you’re smarter and better informed on these matters than I am.”

    Yes, partner, he definitely is, but thats not saying much. Any one of us could go to the nearest homeless shelter and find plenty who can make the same claim. I just wonder how you even have the wherewithal to roll your ass out of the rack every day.
    You should face the hard truth that there’s no cure for stupid. You’re stuck with it.

  76. Jim R Says:

    “Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.”

    The most helpful and informative post since my last one.

  77. reg Says:

    Roper chimes in with an extraordinarily cogent response.

    This is your best shot? Where’s your self-esteem?

  78. Degreed cryptozoologist Says:

    You should be a lot more concerned about your self-esteem, numnuts. Its astonishing for me to see someone like you so eager to show your stupidity for all the world to see. But, allow me to ask your response to the following question without putting up another one of your seemingly endless links. And if you don’t mind, please answer from your heart and what little brain matter you have.
    If we taxpayers aren’t the ones on the hook to foot the bill for these ever-increasing public pensions and benefits, then who the fuck do you think is?

  79. reg Says:

    These are negotiated contracts and the pensions were deferred wages supposedly salted away by state governments into funds to be paid out as needed. Unfortunately, as I noted in New Jersey, the funds have been raided. If you think that you as a “taxpayer” haven’t engaged in a contract with these employees and that their pension funds can be messed with so that you can avoid fiscal responsibility while you kick the can down the road, you are an even bigger ass than even I imagined.

    Here’s the 1994 Washington Post article I linked to, for your edification regarding the situation in New Jersey that the fat fuck of a governor is trying to pin on public employees as the bad guys. Republicans – fake “fiscal conservatives” since Reagan – are the culprits because you preach tax cuts as salvation, but have never had the balls to be honest about the spending cuts that would be necessary to justify the tax cuts. You don’t cut revenue FIRST and proclaim yourself fiscally responsible. You’re a bunch of liars and charlatans, who are now trying to hold the gun you fashioned out of your profligacy, greed and self-regard, in order to screw everyone else. Read the article below, and then leave me the fuck alone. You’re a waste of time.If you are too stupid to figure even a bit of this out for yourself, just stew in your ignorance. BUt don’t parade it….

    Washington Post – Sept 5 1994. – The first thing Christine Todd Whitman did upon taking office as governor of New Jersey in January was to cut the state’s income tax. Then in July, as she signed into law her first state budget, the Republican cut taxes again while simultaneously closing the huge deficit left by her predecessor.

    This is what her supporters call the Whitman miracle, the fiscal accomplishment that has sent her stock soaring among New Jersey’s voters and transformed her on the national scene from a political unknown into one of the Republican Party’s newest stars.

    But the key to the Whitman miracle lies neither in her political philosophy nor in her spending cuts, but rather in the fine print of her budget. Contained there is a series of arcane fiscal changes that some experts say amount to this: Christine Todd Whitman has balanced New Jersey’s books and paid for her tax cut by quietly diverting more than $1 billion from the state’s pension fund.

    Whitman calls what she did a “reform” of the pension system that puts it on a more “sound actuarial footing.” Others are less charitable. The one thing that even the actuarial consultants hired by the Whitman administration agree on, however, is that the chief effect of the changes will be to shift billions of dollars in pension obligations onto New Jersey taxpayers 15 to 20 years from now.

  80. reg Says:

    I want to pull that last quote so this moron “gets it” –

    “The one thing that even the actuarial consultants hired by the Whitman administration agree on, however, is that the chief effect of the changes will be to shift billions of dollars in pension obligations onto New Jersey taxpayers 15 to 20 years from now.”

    It’s “15 to 20 years from now” – and the GOP is ginning up contempt for public employees in order to shift the blame for fiscal profligacy from themselves.

  81. Jim R Says:

    Now I have gotten a chance to see the latest news, I understand what reg was all mentally disabled over.

    I thought we was fightin’ over the last war, a $60 billion cut in this year budget. Now I see you guys have really pissed Ryan off with your bitching about a 2% reduction in this years budget bomb. He’s launch a nuclear war, with a 6 Trillion fallout potential. He’s finally pushed the big red button.

    About fucking time. Let the hand-wringing, whaling, gnashing of teeth……. and negation games begin.

    Don’t you wish you’d settled for Bowles and Simpson already.

  82. AC Says:

    @ Marc…OT but relevant if you haven’t caught it already”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/apr/06/guardian-times-win-big-press-awards-2011

    generous mention of US First Amendment as gold standard for the world

  83. AC Says:

    @ reg: sweetie, you have a Don Quixote complex. but Jim r/Woody and the rest of the buffoons aren’t windmills…just assholes.

    your tutorials should go into right wing blogs where they can take up space and both annoy and maybe even educate.

    not that you care…but i do admire your determination to educate the uneducable. but this is not supposed to be a remedial tutorial blog.

    is it?

  84. pablo Says:

    problem solver Says:

    April 5th, 2011 at 9:37 am
    Reduce military spending.
    —————————-

    Sergio pointed me to this earlier drive-by post.

    Are there many (or any) Democrats looking for alternatives to austerity at home?
    It appears not…and it is sickening. Here the Dems allowed a cool trillion to be transferred from public coffers to Wall St, no strings attached, and then turn around and kvetch that there is no money for the public writ large… and so the arguments propounded center on just how deep the people will have to endure.

    In postwar europe social democracies flourished once decolonization and demilitarization occurred. Life got better for the average working stiff while the stuffed-shirt mummies had to tighten their belts and learn to compete outside of colonial monopoly.

    The debate unfolding within the administration and between the the “cut-some” and “cut some more”.. and given Obama’s outflanking of Boehner on cuts yesterday you can decide which party which party wields the biggest hatchet.. has historical roots which go back to the very limited democracy permitted within the two-party system.
    The US revolution was a shopkeepers rebellion and not a popular grass roots uprising. The country from its founding was to be run by patrician elites… and today the patricians are gone.
    Obama may espouse patrician rhetoric but he is not a patrician elite; for if he were he’d sacrifice the empire to save the republic instead of the other way around.

  85. AC Says:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/apr/05/censored-gay-sex-from-here-eternity

    nb Jim r and all the other fantasists about America:

    ‘…[James]Jones [for you Philistines thats the author of The Thin Red Line and From Here to Eternity] was aspiring to realism and verisimilitude and objected to the sanitisation of his novel,” she said. “He was trying to tell the truth about war. In the 1950s the US was telling itself a mythic, grandiose, heroic story about the second world war and GI Joe saving the world. Jones was saying, ‘That wasn’t the war I saw, I want to write something more honest and realistic. Whatever the mid-America myth, one of the things men were doing was giving blow jobs for money.’”

    …and metaphorically speaking, Jim r et al…that is what you are doing every time you pay lip service (ha ha) to the Koch Brothers agenda. They own your weak little minds. The truth about America is we are a nation of cocksuckers. Not to put too fine a point on it.

    ya see, reg, not even a stand up guy who fought in war was allowed to tell the truth.

  86. AC Says:

    oops…forgot to make the point that the reason the trumpet player had to suck cock to make ends meet was because business had bankrupted the country– ya know– the same poor slobs who Jim et al are saying need a break and the American worker should bend over and not only take it in the ass but then have to suck it to make extra…

    Crude? Offensive? You fucking bet it is and now the whole country after the bail outs BP etc etc etc etc etc and health care bill fiasco etc etc etc has their hands glued to their ankles. Wisconsin? Watch what happens 2012

  87. Dan O Says:

    I’ll just leave this here:

    http://bit.ly/f0bkVl

  88. reg Says:

    Jim R – you are truly a stupid man. There’s nothing else worth saying about the idiocy that apparently has given you a hard-on for Paul Ryan’s ridiculous bullshit. The numbers don’t add up – not even close – according to the CBO and everyone who isn’t invested in his ideology or doesn’t care about math. That all you and that truly odious moron Roper can do is toss barbs, unhinged from any facts or credible analysis of Ryan’s actual proposals is telling.

    I’m through with you. You’ve been offered more respect from me than you deserve – I tried to help you educate yourself a wee bit, but you prefer blissful ignorance and snark. Screw you…

  89. AC Says:

    talk about synchronicity…this just in my email:

    The system we currently use to elect our members of Congress is broken.

    Lawmakers today seem more interested in Wall Street’s profits than Main Street’s progress — a bias that has been borne out in an economic “recovery” of corporate profits while unemployment numbers lag far behind.

    Thankfully, the Fair Elections Now Act, a bill that would significantly repair our broken election system, was re-introduced in Congress today.

    Tell your members of Congress to support the Fair Elections Now Act.

    The Fair Elections Now Act would enable candidates for Congress to avoid taking cash from corporate lobbyists, CEOs and other special interests. Instead, they would run viable campaigns based on small-dollar donations from real people, matched by public funds.

    Instead of spending time hitting up special interests for cash, candidates for elected office would be able focus their attention on voters in the communities they represent.

    In the wake of the unlimited corporate spending allowed by the U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, the Fair Elections Now Act is a particularly essential reform (in addition to a constitutional amendment, increased disclosure and shareholder protections).

    Learn more and urge your members of Congress to support fair elections:

    Go to http://www.citizen.org/fair-elections-now-act

    Every personal phone call, letter and email sent to Congress by constituents is tallied by each member and grabs their attention. Voice your support today!

  90. reg Says:

    One last comment on Paul Ryan, who is IMHO a sociopath (even nice guys can be sociopaths) based on his own admission:

    “The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand,” Ryan said at a D.C. gathering four years ago honoring the author of “Atlas Shrugged” and “The Fountainhead.”

    Once you get that fact – his inner compass of Randian obsession with self, hatred of government and social nihilism – the rest of his strategy to kick the seniors off Medicare, kill Social Security, cut aid to the poor, etc. etc. ad nauseum, falls into place. Also the willingness to tell big lies in order to make what you are selliing sound plausible – because his numbers, supplied by reliable propagandists for the economic elite over at the Heritage Foundation, don’t stand up under even minimal scrutiny. This has nothing to do with “conservatism” or deficit reduction” (his tax-free fairy tale of a “deficit reduction” strategy that has in the real world created huged deficit) – it’s far-right radicalism coming from a disarmingly affable zealot promoting extremist ideology.

  91. pablo Says:

    Perhaps the idea is to defund as much as possible to insure that the affected agency cannot properly perform its function.. and then when it doesn’t, point and say that this ridiculous appendage should be altogether lopped off… the idea being that capitalism should be “unfettered” from oversight and regulation.
    There is one agency however where funding requires the blank check…security.

    In this way we need not look for cogency of argument or just who does the math… those living in gated communities are not about to engage the man in the street, Reg.

  92. pablo Says:

    How is “disarmingly affable zealot ” different from a patrician elite?

    The latter cares while the former doesn’t…cares about the impact of social policy on ordinary people.
    The former intends to mislead while the latter leads…
    but then again what result if the zealot or even the patrician elite fails to pour on the charm and plays politics with social policy?

    When social policy isn’t backed with a constitutional mandate, equal protection from discrimination, then these entitlements are entirely defeasible and capable of being drowned in a bathtub.
    So what is it about the people’s party that is propounds social legislation that is subject to reverter?
    Why be so disarmly affable when it comes to, say, protecting labor while zealously restricting labor from engaging in general strikes.. or gutting welfare under the zeal of reform?

  93. Douchebark Says:

    test

  94. Douchebark Says:

    Thought so. The same idiots can use different handles with ease.

  95. Reg please leave your basement Says:

    Like this one, which will not happen

  96. jim Says:

    “test”

    You failed.

    A small victory…

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Glenn-Beck-leaving-his-Fox-apf-2944451931.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=8&asset=&ccode=

  97. Johnny Holmes Says:

    @Jim R

    Regarding your post on April 6th, 2011 at 9:15 am.

    LOL!!

    Ryan’s plan has as much chance of being passed as Michelle Bachmann has of being elected president.

    Jim, I’m curious. Are you a multi millionaire, or an aspiring one? Are you a veteran with VA health benefits? Are you too young to be worried about how you’ll survive old age under a privatized Medicare system? I assure you, privatizing Medicare will KILL a lot of Americans. Aren’t you concerned you’ll be one of them?

    In addition to the above, Ryan’s plan would greatly accelerate the transfer of wealth from the bottom 99% of Americans to the top 1%.

    It’s time for a reversal of that wealth transfer. It’s time to tax the shit out of the wealthy.

  98. Anna Churchill Says:

    sometimes things go horribly right:

    Glenn Beck booted off Fox.

    see Guardian

  99. pablo Says:

    Re Labor woes in Wisconsin… I caught Natasha Vargas Cooper interview by Jon Weiner on KPFK’s Beneath the Surface today.

    I must say she did very well and is most ready for prime time!

    The show is available for downloading on Podcast.

    I might also add that General Manager Alan Minsky has made some changes over at KPFK which IMHO are for the better.

    Also, can we do without the drive-by troll at 11:25 11:26 & 11:27. I do not share the sentiments expressed which are calculated to hurt the feelings of a long time stalwart of this blog.
    If Marc doesn’t pull the plug at least admonish to cut the shit.

  100. Reg pretends he has life Says:

    Excellent.

  101. Cappadonna Says:

    Pablo -I’ll listen to the interview, but a few good moves doesn’t remove the stench of dried up hippie crazy at KPFK. Sorry, but many of the critiques of the Libyan conflict are enough to turn people’s stomachs. And Beneath the Surface sounds like something straight out of Alex Jones most of the time. But enough about that.

    I’m not shocked that gender played a significant role in support of WI labor. Once the cops and firemen (you know, real macho men) saw their pensions threatened, people started paying attention. So long as governors were kicking around high school English teachers, garbage collectors and DMV clerks – it was those ‘greedy b**es & n**rs’ getting overpaid. Now, when governors start aiming for Corrections Officers and Police detectives – then they’re going too far.

    Sadly, we often value one form of work over another. Teachers and garbage men perform as important a role in society as cops (keeping neighborhoods clean and poor children educated makes a cop’s job easier on the long run). Hopefully, this will spark some real thoughts about how we value and don’t value labor.

  102. Jim R Says:

    “I’m through with you. You’ve been offered more respect from me than you deserve….”

    Believe it or not reg, I agree with you. I goes to show just how little respect you have for all the bloviating, conservatard, dogmas, economic elites, spoon-fed idiots, completely nuts, scare tactics, piece-of-sh*t, extremist, sicko, bullshit, smokescreen, fuckers, mad, bombers, cravenly, kissing ass, overlords, bullshit, full of shit, extremist, radical, pathological, lying, crazy, crank, dishonesty, preening, ignorance, incompetence, nihilism, hypocrite, poison pill on seniors, IQ above room temperature, no shame, no moral center, scumbag, crackpot, zero understanding, childish, nutty, moral peanut, sophomoric, self-indulgent, fraudulent, embarrassing, laughable, sack of shit, moron, half baked,petty, ideologues, a joke, fuckers, self-absorbed, infantiles your have even less respect for.

    I has often puzzled me how tyrants of the world, past and present, get enough support from ordinary people to maintain their power, tactics, tyranny and ruthlessness. Reg provides an insight. Ordinary intelligent people can become so committed, aligned, loyal, and righteous for ONE point of view, they can see no good, no value, no self-redeeming quality in the EVILNESS of those who question, challenge, disagree with their world view.

    There is no excuse for your behavior reg. You are old enough and smart enough to know better. But you cannot control yourself. Your quick temper, foul mouth, and closed mind drives reasonable people away causing them, like me, to finally give up and purposely say things just to piss you off…..to keep the circus act going.

    Hope this helps you more than hurts, but I am afraid it is about 30 years too late.

  103. Randy Paul Says:

    I has often puzzled me how tyrants of the world, past and present, get enough support from ordinary people to maintain their power, tactics, tyranny and ruthlessness. Reg provides an insight.

    The fact that you glossed over the financial support that forms much of the core of tyrants power is further evidence of your intellectual dishonesty, Jim.

    As I’ve said before, you’re not someone to take seriously.

    Warm regards,

    Randy

  104. Jim R Says:

    @Johnny Holmes “Regarding your post on April 6th, 2011 at 9:15 am. LOL!! Ryan’s plan has as much chance of being passed as Michelle Bachmann has of being elected president.Ryan’s plan has as much chance of being passed as Michelle Bachmann has of being elected president.”

    I expect I will agree Johnny. I have not had the time to get the details, but I will. And my snark “It’s about time for 6 Trillion in cuts” was to piss off reg. It worked.

    Reasonable people are not anti-government. They are generally against BIG government having their highly powerful, highly political and highly inefficient expensive noses into every facet of other peoples business and lives….free people btw.

    Reasonable people are not against helping neighbors who actually need help, Neighbors unable to help themselves for various legitimate good reasons. They are against providing an unneeded crutch as a life-style, taking free fish forever from those who are fishing for them every day. Sending free monthly checks from hundreds of various gov’t bureau’s printing presses in Washington DC, to both poor and the rich alike, on auto-pilot with almost no oversight or sampling as to the status of who and why multi-billions are getting mailed, it the very reason gov’t gets a bad name.

    Washington is too BIG, too POLITICAL, too EXPENSIVE, and doing too MUCH too FAR AWAY from the people they serve. They must stop taking too much money from local Communities and States only to have it run through Washington’s political grist mill and outstretched greasy special interests palms before a small portion is recycled back to those they forced it from.

    We’re mad as hell and ain’t gonna’ take it NO MORE!

  105. Jim R Says:

    “…a small portion is recycled back to those they forced it from.”

    And ALWAYS with big greasy political ‘mommy’ strings attached.

    Does this sound like a Republic any longer? Does this sound like what the various autonomous States and Territories and founding fathers had in mind before agreeing to join in a Federation of States? Fuck NO!

  106. Randy Paul Says:

    Well, since you used your caps lock function it must be true.

  107. pablo Says:

    Cappadonna- re-KPFK, I guess to each her own.
    Shiu and I move about between Mexico, Taiwan/China and LA quite a bit. I am hooked on WiFi internet radio with access to virtually any radio station on the planet…some of this is out of necessity as our LA house is ensconced in a canyon… and I must say that the addage- ‘one votes with one’s feet’ has merit. My presets reveal my preferences.. CBC One, Montreal Espace Musique, KPFK, WPS-1 Art Radio…
    97.1 Radio Urquiza in Buenos Aires- a unique blend of jazz has been getting a lot a play in Casa Vino Tinto recently..
    with KPFK, I listen to public affairs programming.. am glad that they presented objections to the Libyan rescue as I have felt unease with aspects of the endeavour ( and have recounted them ad-nauseum here).
    Anyway, I support KPFK financially and would miss them- warts and all- if they vanish.
    On the other hand I don’t listen to KCRW and have been known to lampoon them with my mimmic of their laconic hosts while entertaining friends here and the wine bottle is half empty.

  108. Cappadonna Says:

    Pablo -as you said, to each his own. I prefer KCRW because I get the news and can stay fairly informed. With Pacifica, I have to wade through too much tinfoil hat lefty nonsense and angry screeds about everyone to the right of Chavez to get any real information. Yes, I get a lot of news I wouldn’t know otherwise, but there are plenty of things that are mentioned on Pacifica that would get your fired from a newspaper because you simply couldn’t prove half the crap they say.

  109. av2ts Says:

    Did no one else see this piece as a critique of father’s earlier genuflection (to use a favorite word here) on the role of the firemen and other manly uniformed dudes in the protest?

  110. pablo Says:

    Again, Ms Vargas was on yesterday and Alan Minsky has been removing the “tin-foiled hats” as you call them.. and I have implied to you in a roundabout way that most sentient beings drink from more than one well.. at least this albeit ill-informed listener. Thank heavens you don’t need waders!
    Al-Jazeera news has been added to the lineup, worth the price of admission in my book… and Sabado, Canto Sin Fronteras accompanies BBQ chefs from LA all the way down to the Terra del Fuego! It’s a fact!!

    A voice which is to the left of the Democratic Party is a good thing..especially when it is no longer your grandfathers Democratic Party.. and lo’!!.. the Democratic party gets boatloads of time of KPFK. Just this morning I heard Kucinich… containerboatloads… Thank whomever that Radio Nuevo Mundo is alive and kicking in Santiago, all things considered.

  111. pablo Says:

    Av2ts… si! Ms Vargas was on KPFK yesterday… which somehow got equated with sleeping with the devil…can’t you smell the sulpher?!

  112. Cappadonna Says:

    Pablo, don’t play everyone for stupid or put words in my mouth. My point was that simply because an intelligent progressive journalist appears on Pacifica – it can’t wash away the army of Moonbat crazies who run the station. And being further left than the DNC isn’t the criteria for crazy. Hell half the MSNBC gab-fest are to the left of everyone save Bernie Sanders, and they hardly register as off the chart crazy.

    My one of my favorite hip-hop/jazz fusion groups, the Roots, are Jimmy Fallon’s in studio band and he and David Letterman are sometimes funny. I still think late night TV shows suck.

  113. Johnny Holmes Says:

    @Jim R

    Reasonable people are not anti-government. They are generally against BIG government having their highly powerful, highly political and highly inefficient expensive noses into every facet of other peoples business and lives….free people btw.

    If you’re talking about Republican efforts to stick their noses into women’s reproductive health then I agree with you. Do you know that South Dakota just passed a law that mandates a woman wait 3 days and receive “counseling” before getting an abortion? Not much freedom there if you’re unlucky enough to be female.

    As far as “Big Government”, I doubt you could find more waste, fraud and abuse in DOD contracting and administration. Yet right wingers see no problem shoveling hundreds of billions down that rat hole every year. Do you know the US defense budget is almost as large as the rest of the world’s nations combined? Is that really necessary to keep us safe and free?

    Reasonable people are not against helping neighbors who actually need help, Neighbors unable to help themselves for various legitimate good reasons. They are against providing an unneeded crutch as a life-style, taking free fish forever from those who are fishing for them every day. Sending free monthly checks from hundreds of various gov’t bureau’s printing presses in Washington DC, to both poor and the rich alike, on auto-pilot with almost no oversight or sampling as to the status of who and why multi-billions are getting mailed, it the very reason gov’t gets a bad name.

    I hope you’re not talking about Medicare and Social Security recipients. Most of those people have been paying into those programs their entire lives–rich and poor.

    On the other hand, you have the spoiled spawn of the wealthy, who’s only efforts to earning their billions was to win the sperm lottery. I guarantee they pay a lower tax rate, if not taxes than you or me. Maybe you were referring to them.

    Washington is too BIG, too POLITICAL, too EXPENSIVE, and doing too MUCH too FAR AWAY from the people they serve. They must stop taking too much money from local Communities and States only to have it run through Washington’s political grist mill and outstretched greasy special interests palms before a small portion is recycled back to those they forced it from.

    The wealthy and multi-national corporations would sooo disagree with you. Washington works just fine for them. Hey, speaking of free fish and welfare, do you know that General Electric paid $0 in taxes last year even though they reported over $5 billing in profits? In fact they want a $3 billion dollar credit!! That’s a lot of free fish isn’t it Jim?

  114. AC Says:

    Good News…Jesus IS here. First Beck gets the boot and now this:

    http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/04/wisconsin-recall-campaigns-bag-record-number-signatures#

  115. pablo Says:

    My point was that simply because an intelligent progressive journalist appears on Pacifica – it can’t wash away the army of Moonbat crazies who run the station. And being further left than the DNC isn’t the criteria for crazy.
    ——————
    Cappa:

    Right. I gotta say that I am pleased with what has been happening lately at KPFK. I never visited but I support them precisely because they air what the MSM cannot. Most people get news from several sources and many are able to filter what they hear… as you have ably pointed out.

    Over at NPR the game now that their funding is cut is Center-Right vs Right Wing ping-pong delivered in a laconic voice of a somnambulist in hypnotherapy.
    A waste of time… and misleading! After reading your second comment I switched on NPR and listened a bit about the current budget stalemate. While I tend to get my news offshore and what I do get in LA I must wade through, I have to say that NPR blew it bigtime when they used as a locus the spread of dollars between the Dems and Boehner (the guy wanting to cut a deal but can’t because the tea-party wants more).

    No mention of the policy riders which aside from the money essentially guts the agenda of this president. Here they are:

    :http://www.ombwatch.org/files/budget/OMB_Watch-HR1_Policy_Riders.pdf

    Actually the argument over the few billions is a smokescreen for what Dems will cave-in over in the next week. Read it.

    The real budget debate, the one which involves trillions, and will shape the lives of every american is coming next year… and I can’t tell you how much of the angry screeds aimed at everybody to the right of Chavez I had to wade through to get it.

  116. pablo Says:

    Sorry about the broken link. Here is the real budget debate… the one you don’t hear on NPR:

    http://www.ombwatch.org/files/budget/OMB_Watch-HR1_Policy_Riders.pdf

  117. Johnny Holmes Says:

    Pretty amazing stuff in that rider link Pablo. I particularly liked the one about not funding a “Customer Complaints” database for the Consumer Protection Agency.

    No complaints = no problems by Republican reasoning.

    Another important debate will be over raising the debt ceiling. We’re going to hit that ceiling in a few weeks. Will the House risk sinking the country back into recession and ruining US credit if they don’t get their way?

    I’m only betting no because the Republican’s corporate masters will be yanking the leash hard to have the ceiling raised.

  118. AC Says:

    amplification of that HR1 Riders link:

    http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/bills/112/hr1/amendments

  119. AC Says:

    Here is a corker:

    Rejected
    Yes 148
    No 281
    Vote Details

    Prohibits Government Sponsoring of Nascar Cars(H.AMDT.92)

    This amendment would prohibit the Defense Department from sponsoring cars in Nascar races. According to the amendment’s sponsor, Representative Betty McCollum, Democrat of Minnesota, the Army, Navy and National Guard have all sponsored race cars. “Incredibly, over the past decade hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars have subsidized race car owners and millionaire drivers in the name of military recruitment,” she said.

  120. reg Says:

    Paul Krugman – who clearly is an idiot because he teaches at Princeton, worked in the Reagan administration, writes for the New York TImes, co-authored one of the most popular introductory college-level economics textbooks and won a Nobel Prize – calls Ryan’s plan ‘Ludicrous and Cruel”

    Here’s a link to this ignorant, communist bastard’s analysis:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/08/opinion/08krugman.html

  121. reg Says:

    Spending taxpayer dollars on NASCAR reduces the deficit – anyone with an IQ equal to GMRoper’s knows this.

  122. pablo Says:

    Reg: Here is another commie-rat-bastard:

    “Well, there are two points that I try to make. One is that a successful economy requires collective action. There are lots of things we have to do together. We have to have infrastructure. We have to have an educated population. If you have a divided society, you start worrying more—if you’re in the wealthy and you have an electorate system that can use your wealth to affect the politics, you say, “I’d rather have a small government that isn’t able to redistribute money, take money away from me. I don’t need public schools; I have private money. I don’t need public parks; I have private—you know, my large land.” So, what you have then is an erosion of the kind of collective action, and that makes a society less efficient, less productive. And you see that already happening. We are competing in education with countries in Asia that were much poorer than we were not that long ago. So that’s one problem.

    And the second one is that obviously a house divided can’t stand, that you start getting tensions, you start not paying attention to the things that make us cohesive as a nation. And that’s what you’re seeing in Wisconsin. And you also see that in the budget messages that are coming across, saying, “OK, we’re going to cut back on healthcare for aged and for the poor, but we’re not going to do anything about overall healthcare costs.” What does that mean? It means that if you’re going to cut back on health expenditures for the aged and the poor, and you’re going to let health costs continue to rise, that says rationing. They’re not going to be able to get healthcare. Already, we spend more money with poor health outcomes than those in other countries in the advanced industrial world. And it’s going to get worse as the poor and the elderly can’t get access to healthcare”

    http://www.democracynow.org/2011/4/7/nobel_economist_joseph_stiglitz_assault_on

    It seems ironic that whatever little was gained in the area of heathcare will be gutted by Dems… well let’s see..
    ..and Johnny Holmes, check out Pg 3 of the Policy Riders, Prohibits the EPA from revoking deepwater drilling permits. Can’t close Gitmo. Check it out.

    Reg, When Krugman begins to offer emotional arguments (Ludicrous and Cruel) instead of substantive dismissal of bad policy that should tell you that much of what is being offered by the Right is about to enacted ‘in a spirit of compromise’.
    It appears that the Dems are about to take another big step to the Right. “Progressive” you gotta be joking; forget Liberal.. the Party cannot even claim to be of the Center.

  123. Johnny Holmes Says:

    Hey Jim R

    I’d really like to hear what you think about GE asking for a big fat welfare check from Uncle Sam.

  124. Jim R Says:

    The same way I feel about Congress and the President getting their big fat checks from Uncle Sam when no one else in the government will, including those risking their lives in two wars, during the shut-down while they bicker.

    The King and Royalty always make damn sure they are taken care of, regardless of what happens to others. That is the way it is when you have government for the government, by the government, and of the government.

    I don’t give a sweet fuck if women want to use abortion for birth control as long as I don’t have to pay for her and her fuckers mistake. Apparently the President disagrees and wants to force you and me to pay for their abortion, at least in DC. In fact, he ‘feels’ so strong about it, he is willing to withhold pay checks to government workers till he gets us to agree.

    This 2011 budget battle is 1/3 about the money (a piss-hole in a snow storm compared to the total budget) and two thirds about funding for abortion….and cowboy poetry.

    Jeeezzzzus!

  125. Jim R Says:

    They fuck around and we get fucked, both government and other fuckers.

  126. Johnny Holmes Says:

    Jim Jim Jim,

    So why aren’t you railing against GE not paying their taxes? You’re always attacking the little guy. Please enlighten me.

  127. Johnny Holmes Says:

    As far as the federal government paying for abortions, that’s forbidden by the Hyde amendment. So what are you talking about?

  128. Johnny Holmes Says:

    Btw, I agree with you that nobody in the 3 branches of federal government should get a paycheck if there’s a shutdown.

  129. Jim R Says:

    Planned Parenthood refers to it as the Hide amendment.

    How do think GE and other corporations manage to pay no or low taxes Johnny? They ‘manage’ it with a team of tax lawyers combing through 20 thousand pages of tax code find the ‘special’ loophole created for their particular industry by their ‘special’ lobbied Congressman, as well as plain stupid unintended consequence or over-site loopholes, from a totally loopy taxing system from which Congress derives much of their POWER.

    Bowles/Simpson would fix alot of this, plus cut-up a few Congressman’s no-limit credit cards. But therein lies its demise. You see, it is the Congressman that must approve it, limiting their POWER…..and the President needs One Billion dollars do buy a second term to keep his.

    Hope and Change has run up against Self Interest and Status Quo. Royalty is a POWER drug.

  130. Randy Paul Says:

    The same way I feel about Congress and the President getting their big fat checks from Uncle Sam when no one else in the government will, including those risking their lives in two wars, during the shut-down while they bicker.

    Blame that on the GOP. Barbara Boxer wrote a bill passed by the Senate calling for Congress not to be paid in the event of a shutdown. It passed the Senate, but got nowhere in the house. Who controls the House,Jim?

  131. Jim R Says:

    I was not aware of that Bill Randy. Goes to show you Royalty is an equal opportunity society.

    It would be helpful in these 2011 budget negotiations if both leaders in Congress would stop lying. Boner claiming the impasse is over money, and Grandpa claiming Planed Parenthood is all about planning for a family and women’s ‘health’.

    The latest stings on this Acorn Lite corrupt radical left wing organization (why does it take a private party to do this undercover work to find out if the the tax payers money is being spent as intended and the law is being obeyed) showed two shocking facts;

    1.Under-aged statutory raped girls, as well as pimps using under-aged girls in sex traffic, are being advised by Planned Parent how to get abortions and hide it from the LAW. How to criminally covered it up.

    2.Regardless of their claims of providing important cancer screening for women, many calls to their various ‘health’ clinics by women stinging for breast cancer mammogram screens revealed not one of their locations said they could provide breast cancer screening, the one leading cancer a women would need for her ‘health’.

    Does Grandpa Reid ever leave his unreal Washington world? Apparently not.

    Dear leaders, Stop the fucking lying. Stop the miss-information miss-leading propaganda. If only we could stop these bastards pay, and all the other entities of this hydro-headed monster feeds, our budget would be balance before they agree on it.

  132. Jim R Says:

    “If only we could stop these bastards pay, and all the other entities of this hydro-headed monster feeds, our budget would be balance before they agree on it.”

    Should be “….and all the other entities of this hydro-headed monster feeds, until they stop lying, our budget would be balanced before they would agree to it.”

  133. Jim R Says:

    And Dear Mr. Commander in Chief, Stop claiming you will not sign another short term HR that would pay your underpaid warriors, living paycheck to paycheck, until a budget agreement is reached. You will not sign it because you are dead set against stopping gov’t paid abortions in Washington DC. Stop the fucking lying.

  134. Randy Paul Says:

    Stop the fucking lying.

    Heal yourself from your textbook projection.

  135. Johnny Holmes Says:

    Jim, I’d really be interested in your answer to my question on April 7th, 2011 at 11:30 pm

  136. reg Says:

    Jim R – you really are off your rocker and spewing BS a mile a minute. I’m going to quit reading anything you write here because it’s got all of the value of listening to Glenn Beck. You’re on your own.

  137. reg Says:

    Pablo – Krugman’s “Ludicrous and Cruel” column was quite substantive. Also quite accurate, rather than “emotional”, as a plain two-adjective description.

  138. pablo Says:

    Cute Reg,

    A chess player will invariably place herself in a fork whereby either defensive move made will result in the loss of a strategic piece. This may happen by lack of cunning, experience, or carelessness.

    For the some 100 policy riders attached to the budget the Dems find themselves in a fork whereby key provisions of the President’s accomplishments or agenda must be sacrificed… not all… but as in chess something valuable has got to go.

    The (ahem) liberal press isn’t saying just how these policy riders came into being, their numerocity, or just how sweeping they are in repealing much of legislation that certain Dems have be crowing about as accomplishments.
    Mercifully, ignorance is bliss as the totality of these riders is being fobbed off as a fight over Planned Parenthood. But there are 14 other riders to Healthcare. Sec. 4018 prohibits funding for health care reform. Sec 4019 Bars the individual mandate. Sec 4034 blocks funds for Health Insurance Exchanges Sec 4027 blocks oversight of insurance companies under the health care reform act… and it goes on. Read it.
    But even a cursory glance at these riders reveal the imminent repeal of health care reform, the gutting of the EPA, the end of net neutrality, and right down to defunding the salaries of key presidential advisors… Read them.
    No one seems to be talking about just how these riders were permitted to be affixed to the Budget… its too embarassing.
    So the billions in cuts to social programs and entitlements are really just the well reported tip of the iceberg.
    The story of a potential shutdown of the federal government is diverting but not as important as the shutdown of this administration. The President may be able to continue in office but his legislative agenda, with all of the “historic” reform has been gutted and is rendered meaningless.

  139. Randy Paul Says:

    Your side is the one that’s lying, Jim.

    I’ll keep belaboring the obvious, you’re a dilettante and not a serious commenter.

  140. reg Says:

    Pablo – sorry, I don’ have the time…

  141. AC Says:

    i caught the same usual runaway from reality that J Holmes did. Jim r, as usual with right wing trolls refuse to answer a direct question when faced with GASP: facts:

    # Johnny Holmes Says:
    April 7th, 2011 at 10:53 pm

    Hey Jim R

    I’d really like to hear what you think about GE asking for a big fat welfare check from Uncle Sam.
    # Jim R Says:
    April 7th, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    The same way I feel about Congress and the President getting their big fat checks from Uncle Sam when no one else in the government will, including those risking their lives in two wars, during the shut-down while they bicker.

    The King and Royalty always make damn sure they are taken care of, regardless of what happens to others. That is the way it is when you have government for the government, by the government, and of the government
    _______________________________________________________

    ‘splain yourself, Jim.

  142. reg Says:

    Okay I lied: one more for Jim R – from the CPUSA’s People’s Daily World. Oh, wait a minute. Sorry. This is from the neo-conservative hack and former Bush speechwriter David Frum on Paul Ryan’s very “serious” budget proposal. I don’t expect a response, since Jim seems to have reverted to his own little comforting cocoon:

    (Ryan’s) debt reduction plan actually increases the debt over the medium term — by even more President Obama’s budget would. Ryan’s plan tries to minimize this awkward fact by inserting it within a chart on page 57 that portrays the deficit from 1960 to 2080, a long enough timeframe wherein the worsening of the deficit situation over the period from 2012 to 2021 seems to shrink into historic insignificance.

    The real message of the Ryan plan is: Upper-income tax cuts now; spending cuts for the poor now; more deficits now; spending cuts for middle-income people much later; spending cuts for today’s elderly, never.

    Jobs first, deficit later is actually the right timing of priorities. But the upper-income tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 markedly failed to translate into higher incomes for ordinary Americans. The Ryan plan offers no reason to hope that another round of the same medicine will deliver better results.

    As politics, the message is even worse than the economics. Cut Medicaid and Medicare to fund tax cuts? Isn’t that the issue that returned Bill Clinton to the White House in 1996? Don’t all the polls show that Medicare and even Medicaid are popular, and that more tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans are not? Isn’t this a formula for a GOP bloodbath in 2012? And if the plan did somehow become law, is it not a formula for an economy in the 2010s that will underperform for most people in the same way that the economy of the 2000s underperformed for most people?

    Those are the questions that will worry economists and swing voters alike. But the plan is not written for economists and swing voters. It is written for the GOP core. Yet one has to wonder: What happens to a party that invests so much energy talking to itself?

  143. Rob Grocholski Says:

    “Cut Medicaid and Medicare to fund tax cuts?” Oh, the poor overburdened, wealthy…
    Ryan’s “Path to Prosperity” should be renamed “The Road Back to 1929″

  144. Hester Says:

    Johann Hari: We’re not being told the truth on Libya

    Look at two other wars our government is currently deeply involved in – because they show that the claims made for this bombing campaign can’t be true

    http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-were-not-being-told-the-truth-on-libya-2264785.html

  145. pablo Says:

    Bernie refuses the kool-aid:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/18/bernie-sanders-obama-primary_n_837819.html

  146. Johnny Holmes Says:

    I’d be more than happy to support a credible candidate to the left of Obama, but alas, I don’t see one emerging.

    Pablo, I’m afraid we’re stuck with Obama for 2012.

  147. reg Says:

    I don’t know how to break this to pablo, but the Kool-aid Bernie isn’t having is yours. Bernie is proposing a gadfly progressive use the Dem primaries to “enliven the debate” – not an electoral challenge to Obama in the general. This is exactly what I’ve always said that the asinine narcissist Nader should have done in 2000 to use the Democratic debates to raise his issues. I would have no problem with a Kucinich – or hopefully someone who is a bit more charismatic – using the Democratic primaries to challenge Obama from the left. I think it might be a good thing and would actually help Obama both articulate his own agenda and burnish his image as a “moderate” in the eyes of independents. If you think this has anything to do with the Green or Naderite horseshit you have consistently put forward here, you’re sorely mistaken.. That’s the Kool-aid! And Bernie’s never been having it. Get real – step up your game just a bit. This is too easy…

  148. AC Says:

    reg says:

    or hopefully someone who is a bit more charismatic – using the Democratic primaries to challenge Obama from the left. I think it might be a good thing and would actually help Obama both articulate his own agenda and burnish his image as a “moderate” in the eyes of independents.
    —————————————————–

    what world do you live in reg where these these type of agendas hold court? you keep thinking politicians are going to ‘articulate’ more and ‘burnish’ their images. you think O, after years of being groomed to get the job and then getting job during a hell term is going to be any more ‘changed’, ‘articulated’ or ‘burnished’ more than he already is? The man has gone grey and is rail thin– there isnt anything left to ‘burnish’ or make him seem more moderate. you think he has to seem less radical the Kucinich? you are fucking nuts, reg. you think his selling out MORE will bring on board more people who are really Republicans?

    TO WHAT FUCKING END, reg?

    do you EVER actually hear what you write?

    and yes, that Nader is a real asshole because….HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN RIGHT.

    but to you…someone who has the intellectual chops to get it right on the LEFT…ha ha…you think they are ‘narcisisstic assholes’.

    you are so fucking busy with the idea of Machievellian plotting you must the FACTS. Obama’s agenda was bought and paid for a long time ago.

    You need to step up your game, buddy.

  149. AC Says:

    Thank you, Hester, for the link to the Hari piece in the Independent.

    Best thing I have read…amen to it.

  150. AC Says:

    @Hester et al: the issue of the mineral coltan mining being a “conflict mineral” and directly related to the holocaust in Congo was raised some few years ago– again–in an article in probably the Ind UK or Guardian. I remember reading about it.

    It is horrifying to realize no pressure has been exercised to regulate and stop the slaughter…that no activist force has arisen or gotten the attention that conflict diamonds did says something about how much we take for granted about cell phone and lap top use and what are we willing to give up or pay more for.

    i’d throw the shit out the window, frankly. it has not made the world a better place.

    the ha ha fantasy of making the world more democratic is such a crock. what man creates man can charge for and make sure there is no equal access.

    Rick Scott the evil slime new gov of Florida has declared he will not be contacted by electronic means. You wanna talk to Rick you send hard copy.

  151. AC Says:

    further to my argument against continuing a holocaust in order to fuel the electronic age (yes we can do it differently, but we wont) its been a great fucking boon to criminals more than democracy.

    just think child porn not mention porn and scams and hacking and cell phones being wonderful tools to set off bombs…for every protest that gets tweeted millions have been slaughtered and maimed either through porn or war to get the mineral so we can all feel good about getting tweets about the “revolution”– that usually comes to naught.

  152. Jim R Says:

    Everyone should be glad both political parties were intimidated enough of being ‘blamed’, by the voters, for a gov’t shutdown, they both agreed to agree. Democracy at work, and one can easily see how fragile democracies in third world countries can easily devolve into uncivil shooting wars, with the winner becoming a dictator.

    Even in our own elections, we see how each party feels so strongly about the righteousness of their positions that once elected by the people, always relatively small margins usually determined by the common sense and reasonable independent voters, immediately begin to act as if they have a mandate to do act like mini-dictators.

    Though we dislike the arguing, bickering, and over-the-top distortions and outright lying about each others positions, we have to admit we love the competition in a democracy, as well we do all other competitions when much is at stake. It is the essence of a democracy, and those who think it has gotten dirtier should read a little bit of American political history from the very beginning, only George Washington being the one exception by acclaim. Interestingly, he could have used his popularity, after a bitter war between those Americans loyal or on the fence for English rule, and the Revolutionaries, to easily become a dictator, but did just the opposite, walking away after one term for which he has especially loved and respected.

    Nothing can replace competition in all facets of human endeavor, especially the most important, who will rule you. We can see how it is the competition, not the pronouncements and claims coming out of one side, that we discover the truth, the strengths and weakness of each side’s ideas and policies are criticized by the other, and published by a free people and press for all to read and evaluate.

    It is not the distortions, miss-information, propaganda and outright lies in an election or policy debate that threatens the stability of democracy. It is when one side gets enough power over the other they are allowed to also gain too much control over the dissemination of the others distortions, miss-information, propaganda and outright lies.

    It is inside this competition, this struggle, this war of words, that lies the pros and cons, the good and bad, the choices, the trade-offs……the real truth as each of us sees it. We should be very thankful we have a strong rule of law, but much more importantly, a free and competitive liberal dissemination of information to the people who must make difficult and important choices.

    If you want the other sides information to be withheld, limited, or otherwise somehow controlled by a government because you feel it is lies, be careful what you wish for.

  153. Jim R Says:

    Btw, my last comment was not picking on any one comment or commenter here. While I was composing mine, I see after posting several more have even been added this morning I have not even read. Keep up the competition.

    Where we can easily see the power of competition in the quality of government, products and services provided to us by a free society, otherwise known by that dirty word Capitalism in deliverance of products and services, it becomes iffy when used to deliver human services, some call ‘rights’, like healthcare and other social services.

    Is it morally wrong for one to make a ‘profit’ from healthcare for example if they can provide it more efficiently and responsively at a lower cost to the one in need? Is allowing a free fee-for-services healthcare plan to the elderly and poor, a Cadillac on-demand healthcare plan for the rest of us relegated to affordable HMO plans, allowing too much of a ‘right’? Would removing all competition from healthcare and transferring it to Washington actually make for an improved service and responsiveness?

    History shows a very bad track record for anything where competition is removed and monopoly is allowed. Cost and labor skyrocket in a monopoly because there is no other choices and there is no limit to what a product monopoly believes their product is worth or a labor monopoly believes their services are worth.

  154. Anna Churchill Says:

    Jim answer direct questions rather than spewing tracts of that right wing free market pablum you’ve been gobbling up.

    try, as everyone keeps asking you to do, to test your POV against REALITY.

    you, like WOody, would never answer a direct question in response to a so called point you thought you were making which was shot down by empirical evidence and….gasp: FACTS.

    In this one paragraph of yours alone (i regurgitate it for you):

    “Is it morally wrong for one to make a ‘profit’ from healthcare for example if they can provide it more efficiently and responsively at a lower cost to the one in need? Is allowing a free fee-for-services healthcare plan to the elderly and poor, a Cadillac on-demand healthcare plan for the rest of us relegated to affordable HMO plans, allowing too much of a ‘right’? Would removing all competition from healthcare and transferring it to Washington actually make for an improved service and responsiveness?”

    you are so bent you have no idea what you are saying. and the universal health care debate vs the lunacy and expense of our current method has been eloquently debated a thousand times but kool aid addled minds like yours cant absorb something that requires THINKING.

    Example after example has been offered here and in every media site on the planet. but do you actually look at the facts?

    nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    BTW do you get paid to drop this drivel by? by the word or dump?

  155. Anna Churchill Says:

    Jim pontificates:

    ‘It is not the distortions, miss-information, propaganda and outright lies in an election or policy debate that threatens the stability of democracy. It is when one side gets enough power over the other they are allowed to also gain too much control over the dissemination of the others distortions, miss-information, propaganda and outright lies.”

    hahahahahahahahahahahhaah

    what do you think the Koch Bros have been buying, Jim? What do you think has been going down here for the past couple hundred years, pal.

    what do you think Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheyney were doing for 8 years you idiot? WMD anyone?

    Like James Jones tried to say: in America men suck cock to help pay the bills. Get down the program, Jim.

  156. 4th Time Around (22) Says:

    In the meantime….
    During the 2008 Campaign Obama received a wrist slap from the left for DISAGREEING with a SC decision limiting capital punishment. This was sad but not surprising, all Dem Presidential candidates must appear tough on capital punishment or expect questions about “what if” there wives were raped and killed. Marc Cooper, who had ruthlessly whored the Ricky Rector case as a means of getting at Clinton, hypocritically told his readers Obama had issued some mild words of dissent, and he couldn’t figure out what the fuss was about. Bullshit, Obama had come out in favor of EXPANDING Capital Punishment (turning the issue back over to the States!) and had certainly gone further than Clinton had in see that Rector was executed.
    So now this. How long will Obama supports like Cooper remain silent? http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/story/index.html?story=/opinion/greenwald/2011/04/11/manning

  157. Dan O Says:

    otherwise known by that dirty word Capitalism

    Where the fuck do you live Jim? We live in the age of Capital triumphant. We worship it, extol its virtues, genuflect in front of its captains, expect government to mimic it, and demonize any alternatives.

    I can’t think of any other time when laissez faire, unregulated, and unrepentant capital had such a hold on the national discourse, at least among the elites and their bamboozled followers in the GOP and the crazy Tea Party.

    You make no sense.

  158. pablo Says:

    I’ll try to be gentle reg, after all you may recall the time when kool-aid was sold in a packet for a nickel. Of course to (sic) enjoy one needed to add sugar, water, and stir.

    It is true that Republicans have embarked on a their own pilgrimage to Predappio… but there was no need for Dems to follow the courtage to Perugia. Just as the Right chooses their new brown shirts doesn’t mean Dems look good in beige.
    On core issues the kidz in beige have been content to chase the brown shirts half-way; which is to say, a great distance from where (sic) progressives say they want to be.
    This has been the worse two weeks in recent Dem party history where they have caved on every core principle from habeas-corpus to taxation, to social programs, to war. These being the moral issues which Liberals claim as justification for their opposition to the rapiers on the right.
    What the Dems still retain are cheerleaders, the smart ones are well paid on TV while the chumps applaud on blogs. An era that was euphemistically named, “The End of History”, should be renamed, “The End of Issues” as there is nothing left to fight ‘for’ only an adversary to reach accomodation with….
    and so disingenuous are those who diefy the nonsense of claiming to be politically healed by reaching to touch the cuff on his pant-leg… pouring buckets of cyber-ink revealing the latest fascista foibles while, at the same time, reveling in the ‘statesmanship’ derived from meeting the far-right halfway; in this case, in Perulia.
    Quibbling with morality is more than being- in pari delicto- with the Rightwing and in the same way one selling their soul stands in contrast with the soulless by saying it is all for the greater good.
    There is no good and so there is no longer any reason to fight, only each new day to meet immorality halfway along their pilgrimage until at some distant point the Dems too find themselves a just few steps behind the far- Right in Predappio itself.

  159. AC Says:

    amen brother Pablo Jesus.

  160. AC Says:

    reg, at what point do you think agitating for what you believe in is acceptable?

    the West’s interests aside in the Middle East…what if all those people who took to the streets had your mindset? If the fruit seller had not immolated himself and started how many revolutions?

    yes, compromise will come into the deal cutting to set up some kind of replacement governments but thats because of all the dirty politics and global big bucks and arsenals and governments involved who want that oil.

    but those people were ready to die for change. enough was enough. at what point do we do that here, reg? when do white folks, in this country, take to the barricades?

  161. AC Says:

    you are out of touch, reg, with how the majority of progressives feel. not the talking head variety but the ones who were working the 2004 campaign and saw the DNC just piss it all away…i called for the DNC for several months in 05 and spoke to hundreds and hundreds of Dems in every state. THEY WERE PISSED OFF. DISGUSTED. THey felt sold out by their own party; by the weak shitty campaign etc etc. by a shitty candidate. ( Kerry)

    You keep thinking there aren’t enough people who want sustainable legislation and politicians who will nurture it. you are wrong. People are just disgusted by the very knniving you are so fond of promoting. What people want, reg, is a fucking warrior. not an appeaser. i am very suspicious of those who keep rationalizing the need for these little incremental steps because in the long run….you get recidivism like what is happening now with all the hard won legislation being stripped away. and it started with the Clinton.

  162. Johnny Holmes Says:

    @AC

    What people want is a fucking warrior. not an appeaser.

    Amen Amen Amen. The only one I see on the rise is Elizabeth Warren. Sanders is awesome but he’s too old and not going to run for anything other than Senator of Vt.

    In the meantime I’m extremely concerned about how our Appeaser In Chief is going to handle the debt ceiling negotiations. The Republicans have no qualms about ruining the US by not raising the ceiling. My fear is Obama will recognize that and drop to his knees before negotiations begin. I hope I’m wrong.

  163. Jim R Says:

    “Jim answer direct questions rather than spewing tracts of that right wing free market pablum you’ve been gobbling up.”

    You are so busy Anna, you rarely take a breath to ask anyone else a question that isn’t rhetorical in nature. Your mind seems preoccupied trying to answer its own.

    If your are referring to Johnny’s question here: “I’d really like to hear what you think about GE asking for a big fat welfare check from Uncle Sam”

    I answered it here: “They ‘manage’ it with a team of tax lawyers combing through 20 thousand pages of tax code to find the ‘special’ loophole created for their particular industry by their ‘special’ lobbied Congressman, as well as plain stupid unintended consequence or over-site loopholes from a totally loopy taxing system, from which Congress derives much of their POWER”

    Anna: “America is we are a nation of cocksuckers….Crude? Offensive? You fucking bet it is…”

    Well, you’re not wrong all the time Anna. Yes it is crude. But if Old Joe were alive today, I have the feeling you would be one of his most loyal
    ‘servants’.

  164. Jim R Says:

    Here is a question that begs for an answer from the President, but serfs will do: Why won’t he accept his own Debt Commission’s recommendations in this latest debt ceiling battle, and get Harry to call for an up or down vote on it?

    No long drawn out amendment arguments and battles. Keeping it clean, as he requested from the Republican House. He could shove some very unpleasant tax increases, via the tax deduction and loop hole eliminations in these recommendations, right up the noses of the Republicans, forcing their weak hand and making himself a hero to the American people. IMO of course.

  165. Jim R Says:

    But on second thought, after bonehead Boner preemptively surrendered with the stupid remark made in public “failure to raise the debt ceiling would be very very serious”, why should he act responsibly when China is waiting in the wings with outstretched low interest money….and a great big toothy smile.

  166. GMRoper Says:

    For once, I strongly agree with the lefties in here who would like to see Obama challenged by someone farther to the Progressive left. Obama has been a monumental failure and has spent our nation to the brink of financial catastrophe. Bush wasn’t any better and never saw a spending bill he didn’t like. Some in here have asked Obama to stand up to congress and fight for higher spending limits. You folk do know that he voted against it as a Senator don’t you?

    My fear is that the Republicans will nominate some wishy-washy pseudo conservative such as Romney or another (gasp) Dole.

    I’d like to see the strongest leader possible nominated by both parties, then let the battle of ideas begin.

    Obama has been a colossal failure as President, and even the center left is beginning to recognize this. His strongly negative ratings are double his strongly positive ratings according to one poll. He has broken his promises to the left and has ceded leadership to slugs like Reid and Pelosi who loved to vote for bills they never read but that they thought were cool.

    Will our children inherit the wind because of collective failures of leadership?

  167. Anna Churchill Says:

    Jim, you need to get that thing out of your mouth so you can think.

  168. Anna Churchill Says:

    you havent answered a single question. your program just keeps spewing out the same canned garbage.

  169. Anna Churchill Says:

    Johnny: the trouble is the warriors ( Nader) get smeared by…the reg brigade et al. Alterman and who were the other traitors. All the bullshit about how he ran his campaign all the knniving he didnt do…its so pathetically archetypal.

    so called progressives misplace the advice to kill the buddha in road if you meet him.

    you know how righteous Nader is by how vicious the attack on him from the left.

    my hero..shit whats his name great muckraker journo used to be with the V Voice…just went out of my bean..his name…you know who i mean…

    anyway he said no more vicious bastards than the democrats in ref to what they did to Nader.

    now Nader too old. health clearly not the best. he should have been called in as a consultant. progressives never properly made use of his steel trap mind and morality.

    fuckers. very difficult for a real progressive to get a foothold in this country. its not the right that kill them off its their own eating them.

  170. Anna Churchill Says:

    to all of you who thought it was okey dokey to chip away at core ideals in order to gee whiz get over the hump of those pesky republicans…is this enough of a sell out for you:

    Urgent! The White House announced that in a big speech tomorrow, President Obama will do what no Republican President has been able to do: Put Medicare and Medicaid on the table for potential cuts.

    Many former Obama volunteers, donors, and voters are deeply disappointed. A Democratic Congressman said on MSNBC last night that Obama needs to “act like a Democrat.”

    Will you sign this urgent pledge, which we’ll deliver to the Obama campaign?

    “President Obama: If you cut Medicare and Medicaid benefits for me, my parents, my grandparents, or families like mine, don’t ask for a penny of my money or an hour of my time in 2012. I’m going to focus on electing bold progressive candidates — not Democrats who help Republicans make harmful cuts.” Click here to sign.

  171. Anna Churchill Says:

    i think we might see some white folks at the barricades now…

  172. Anna Churchill Says:

    here, jim, suck on this:

    In 2005, the Bush/ Cheney Energy Bill exempted natural gas drilling from the Safe Drinking Water Act. It exempts companies from disclosing the chemicals used during hydraulic fracturing. Essentially, the provision took the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) off the job. It is now commonly referred to as the Halliburton Loophole. ”

    better go live in Pennsylvania and have a frak…or Utah and suck some tar sand dust.

    free market needs all the support it can get.

  173. AC Says:

    more wonderfulness from the erstwhile negotiator/appeaser and isnt he getting more done than could be expected given those terrible republican obstructionists:

    (lets see was it Dan Rob or Randy who drank the BP/White House Kool Aid about how wonderful the response was by the White House)

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/apr/13/deepwater-horizon-gulf-mexico-oil-spill

    I have been following Samantha Joye’s work from before she became the poster girl for conscience and conscientiousness

    lets see you all rationalize why the White House had to white wash the oil spill damage.

    Fuck Obama. rather have wolf in the white house than one in sheeps clothing that the sheep are deluded into being one of them

  174. AC Says:

    between putting Medicare on the block on this….hmmmmmm couldnt hear you.

  175. Johnny Holmes Says:

    @GMRoper

    Will our children inherit the wind because of collective failures of leadership?

    Actually, we’re all inheriting the wind of 30 years of failed Reaganomics.

    GM, you should be delighted with Obama. Had the Democrats elected a president with testicles your side would be buried as deep as they were in the 1930′s.

    Due to his fetish for compromising with the devil (Republicans), and showing very little commitment to Democratic much less progressive values. we have a branch of government that is bent on destroying the US economy just so the top 1% don’t have to pay taxes. Of course I’m talking about the House.

    Your comment about Romney is telling. I think if elected he may be as devoid of principles as Obama. Maybe he’d govern like Obama’s second term. Wouldn’t that be a hoot :)

  176. GMRoper Says:

    @Johnny Holmes

    “Actually, we’re all inheriting the wind of 30 years of failed Reaganomics.

    Its nice to blame Reaganomics for all the problems, but the fact remains that Reaganomics didn’t treble the debt and install trillion dollar deficits. That was the Democratic congress and Obama.

    Reaganomics is not the problem, giving everybody everything they want and funding it out of the federal budget is the problem regardless of who is doing it.

  177. GMRoper Says:

    Oh, and I think you are exactly right about Romney. I hope to God the Republicans don’t nominate him.

  178. GMRoper Says:

    I might add that this budget brouhaha would not have happened if the Democratic Congress had done their job last year and passed the annual budget when they had both houses AND the White House.

  179. pablo Says:

    MRoper Says:
    April 13th, 2011 at 6:47 am
    Oh, and I think you are exactly right about Romney. I hope to God the Republicans don’t nominate him.
    ———

    It will matter little as to who the Republicans nominate. The “new citizens” created by the Supreme Court in Citizens United, the ones for and by whom the republic was created, are throwing their money behind Obama.
    The press has been speculating that the Prez will raise over a billion dollars for the next campaign. This money will come from corporations as Obama has proven himself a man of the “new” people.
    While the courtiers in the Party will spotlite some jobless $25 cyber-donations as evidence of grass roots activism the overwhelming percentage of contributions will be in the form of corporate fealty.

    For the 1% of America now inoculated against the pain of shared sacrifice, and larded with public sureties of over a trillion dollars against all capital risk, there is no greater champion than the current WH occupant.
    Big money wants the status quo. They will support your crazy train in the House but no populism left or right will creep into the Executive.
    For the rest of America- especially those who made grass roots donations to Obama last time out- let’s just say once bitten, twice shy.

  180. AC Says:

    Pablo: succinct and chilling.

  181. AC Says:

    …and gives further meaning to my: …’Fuck Obama. rather have a wolf in the white house than one in sheep’s clothing– that the sheep are deluded into thinking he’s one of them’

  182. reg Says:

    David Stockman, Reagan’s budget director, probably knows a bit more about the impact over thirty years of the GOP’s Reagan-inspired tax cut ideology than the raving moron Roper – who hasn’t been right about anything important, ever in his natterings here:

    “This debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party’s embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don’t matter if they result from tax cuts.”

    This is so elementary that if an idiot like Roper – who is puffed up with nothing but the vainglory of his own ill-informed opinions (resentments?) – ever actually sat down and began to educate himself, his head would explode. It’s insulting to an intelligent person to even have to respond to this character, but there it is…

  183. jim Says:

    America’s new Walmart:

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ikea-union-20110410,0,5341610.story

  184. jim hitchcock Says:

    It would appear that `good Swedishness’ does not apply in the U.S.

  185. jim Says:

    The Swedes might think we’re a third world country… :)

  186. Johnny Holmes Says:

    Thanks reg, now I don’t have to respond to GM’s Reaganomics post ;)

  187. Johnny Holmes Says:

    @GM Roper

    I’m curious, who’s your favorite Republican candidate at this point? I’m praying for Bachmann but I don’t think she has a chance. Sorry, but I think the GOP Corporate masters are going to go with Romney.

  188. GMRoper Says:

    I see reg is bloviating as usual. Facts are stubborn things.

    Regardless of who was budgeting, as I noted earlier, the deficit which is about to drown us comes not from a lack of revenue, but spending more than we take in.

    As you can see from this set of data with the exception of 1983 in which there was a slight decrease in revenue from the prior year, revenue went up all the way through FY 2000.

    There was a decline in the early part of the Bush admin but it again increased after 2005 beyond 2000 and has increased each year since. Frigging revenue is NOT the problem. Spending on the other hand has exceeded revenue since 1980 with a few years exceptions during the latter Clinton budget Years of 98-2001 which, IIRC was more from taking off budget revenue (SS) and adding it to the General Revenue.

    Who is the moron reg? I suggest that it is you.

    Stockman seems to have changed his tune from the 80′s. According to reg, if not in so many words, if someone doesn’t hew to the same drivel he hewed to before (me for example disliking McCain but liking Palin and voting Republican in ’08), he isn’w worth considering. So, Stockman … meh!

    Jim, by the way, I went into IKEA in Houston a couple of weeks ago… I wasn’t impressed with their furniture though they did have interesting displays set up but I guess Swedish modern isn’t my thing.

  189. pablo Says:

    GMRoper Says:
    April 13th, 2011 at 12:52 pm
    I see reg is bloviating as usual. Facts are stubborn things.

    Regardless of who was budgeting, as I noted earlier, the deficit which is about to drown us comes not from a lack of revenue, but spending more than we take in.
    —————–

    The “stubborn thing” seems to be you. What kind of double-speak is deficits arising “not from a lack of revenue, but spending more than we take in.”?

    So, take in more…. and take it from those in the top 1%.

    Example, my dividend income is taxed at 15% while my earnings are taxed at about 38%. As most in my bracket I am heavily sheltered and so the nominal rate bears no relationship to what I pay. On top of that I am able to deduct most of my lifestyle, even the computer I am using now.
    The dividend income arrives without a drop of sweat; instead it comes from being vested. That income should be treated as earned income. It is this passive income which exploits those who toil and are with few assets
    .
    I’ll pay more.
    So what?
    Stop jerking us around!

  190. reg Says:

    Roper is willfully ignorant, which is worse than “merely ignorant.”

    His response is beyond stupid. If the GOP enacted tax cuts without the political will or ability to actually rein in spending by being able to pass actual budgets in the Congress that matched the available revenue – whether such cuts would be something I would agree made sense or not – that is nothing but fiscal profligacy. Actually it was a deliberate “Starve the Beast” strategy to create deficits down the road and to use as a club to attack government – a dishonest “backdoor” for retrograde ideology to gain plausibility without parading the goals of killing Medicare, etc. in public, whether useful idiots like Roper understood that or not. But facts are stubborn things – unless you are a moron like Roper, in which case they don’t matter. And the fact is that the Paul Ryans – Randite and anti-tax ideologues – are the same people who created this deficit “Dragon” that they now claim they “courageously” want to slay.

    The truth is that “doing nothing” – that is simply letting the Bush tax cuts and the Medicare “fixes” expire – does more to contain deficits (actually it essentially would balance the budgets over several decades) than the monstrosity of Ryan’s plan. Not the best approach, necessarily, but a testament to just how deceptive Ryan’s puerile BS actually is.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/13/business/economy/13leonhardt.html?_r=1&ref=business

    Again, facts – for those unlike Roper who can handle even small truths that don’t conform to their “bliss.”

  191. reg Says:

    More on the virtues of “doing nothing” if one is, in fact, a deficit hawk:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-graph-all-budget-discussions-should-start-with/2011/04/11/AFmhRLKD_blog.html

    People like Roper and Ryan, of course, are just tin-pot cranks who hate the government. Sort of like Bill Ayers…

  192. GMRoper Says:

    reg, are you developmentally math impared? You could take 100% of the income of those top1% and it wouldn’t make a dent in the deficit.

    @Johnny Holmes: Good question, I’ve not given it a lot of thougt because no one has declaired yet. Lets see who has the cojones to jump in then ask me again.

    Last year I would have said Palin, but she has an awful lot of “manufactured by the left” negatives and hasn’t given even a hint that she is running.

    Rubio would make a possible candidate, so would West.

    Romney or Huckabee not so much, I don’t know enough about bachman to say and even less about the others.

  193. reg Says:

    Here, incidentally, is an interesting poll that shows far more REPUBLICANS don’t want to do anything at all to rein in costs of Medicare and Social Security going forward.

    This is the kind of incoherent, brain-scrambled coalition one gets when a large segment of your “base” are “listening” to FOX News while sitting in their government-financed “mobility scooters” without changing the batteries on their hearing aids. Pathetic…

    Fortunately, half of the GOP’s increasingly geriatric base is going to hate Paul Ryan even more than they loathe Obama once they figure out what the “nice young man” is actually saying…

  194. GMRoper Says:

    sorry reg, the above was aimed at pablo not you. Although you probably, nay, decidedly are math challenged also

  195. reg Says:

    oops – link:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/plurality-of-republicans-want-medicare-left-alone/2011/04/13/AFZahOWD_blog.html

  196. GMRoper Says:

    reg:

    His response is beyond stupid. If the GOP enacted tax cuts without the political will or ability to actually rein in spending by being able to pass actual budgets in the Congress that matched the available revenue – whether such cuts would be something I would agree made sense or not – that is nothing but fiscal profligacy. Actually it was a deliberate “Starve the Beast” strategy to create deficits down the road and to use as a club to attack government – a dishonest “backdoor” for retrograde ideology to gain plausibility without parading the goals of killing Medicare, etc. in public, whether useful idiots like Roper understood that or not. But facts are stubborn things – unless you are a moron like Roper, in which case they don’t matter. And the fact is that the Paul Ryans – Randite and anti-tax ideologues – are the same people who created this deficit “Dragon” that they now claim they “courageously” want to slay.

    What a lot of garbage, unthinking, nonsensical, unintelligent garbage. reg, is it true that you are running for dolt of the year?

  197. reg Says:

    Roper – you’re a fucking idiot and you have zero evidence to back your ravings up. Check out the evidence I posted and then kindly go crawl back into your cave. You are a huge bore, you literally don’t have a clue as to the facts and you’ve wasted way too much of my time over the years.

  198. reg Says:

    Roper – I just read your last little gasp, and it’s obvius that all you can do is spew. You have brought to bear zero logic to counter my straightforward account of fiscal “conservatism” vs. Starve the Beast fiscal profligacy, which is what the Tax Cuts Uber Alles doctrine has wrought. Frankly the need to balance revenues with spending is apparent on its face to anyone who has passed 3rd grade (maybe second grade) math. If you don’t get it – that spending cuts must precede tax cuts as policy or you are digging a deeper hole – you are beyond help. Frankly, I don’t give a shit. Drown in your fucking ignorance. You’re a rancid old prick and your ravings are irrelevant to anyone who isn’t interested in picking through garbage.

  199. reg Says:

    And just to be clear I am talking about a long-term strategy of tax-cuts that aren’t tied to actual spending cuts – I have no objectiont to targeted or stimulative tax cuts as part of counter-cyclical policy in “troughs.” But that’s not the GOP’s record over the last 30 years – not even close. And recently Ropers little Goddess of Take-the-Money-and-Don’t-Run used “Starve the Beast” as her explicit demand, and called for even more tax cuts. This isn’t an arcane aspect of GOP ideology to anyone who has been paying attention – or has the mental capacity to look beyond their nose. Here’s an article on the GOP-oriented Frum Forum, just to make it clear that this isn’t some lefty fantasy or smear:

    http://www.frumforum.com/bartlett-starve-the-beast-still-doesnt-work

    Again, this is beyond Roper’s capacity for recovery. But I still get annoyed when he just calls me names, when his own ass is hanging out. It just stinks the place up.

  200. AC Says:

    Now this is the reg i want to see come out of the closet more often:

    # reg Says:
    April 13th, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    Here, incidentally, is an interesting poll that shows far more REPUBLICANS don’t want to do anything at all to rein in costs of Medicare and Social Security going forward.

    This is the kind of incoherent, brain-scrambled coalition one gets when a large segment of your “base” are “listening” to FOX News while sitting in their government-financed “mobility scooters” without changing the batteries on their hearing aids. Pathetic…

    Fortunately, half of the GOP’s increasingly geriatric base is going to hate Paul Ryan even more than they loathe Obama once they figure out what the “nice young man” is actually saying…
    ——————————————————-

  201. AC Says:

    ya gotta love it:

    “Laborers in Swedwood plants in Sweden produce bookcases and tables similar to those manufactured in Danville. The big difference is that the Europeans enjoy a minimum wage of about $19 an hour and a government-mandated five weeks of paid vacation. Full-time employees in Danville start at $8 an hour with 12 vacation days — eight of them on dates determined by the company.

    What’s more, as many as one-third of the workers at the Danville plant have been drawn from local temporary-staffing agencies. These workers receive even lower wages and no benefits, employees said.

    Swedwood’s Steen said the company is reducing the number of temps, but she acknowledged the pay gap between factories in Europe and the U.S. “That is related to the standard of living and general conditions in the different countries,” Steen said.

    Bill Street, who has tried to organize the Danville workers for the machinists union, said Ikea was taking advantage of the weaker protections afforded to U.S. workers.

    “It’s ironic that Ikea looks on the U.S. and Danville the way that most people in the U.S. look at Mexico,” Street said.”

  202. jim hitchcock Says:

    To be fair, Americans can get five weeks vacation. It’s called being layed off.

  203. reg Says:

    Luckily for true “conservatives” like GM Roper, Donald Trump is tied as front-runner for the GOP nomination among Republican voters, well ahead of that phony, flip-flopping bastard Mitt Romney. Trump is the true voice of “conservatism” because he’s totally full of shit – aka “himself.”

  204. reg Says:

    Just because I enjoy kicking certain people when they respond with hubris disconnected from even a meager capacity for coherence, here’s the Starve the Beast doctrine as enunciated by Milton Friedman: “How can we ever cut government down to size? I believe there is one and only one way: the way parents control spendthrift children, cutting their allowance. For governments, this means cutting taxes. Resulting deficits will be an effective—I would go so far as to say, the only effective—restraint on the spending propensities of the executive branch and the legislature. The public reaction will make that restraint effective.”

    And here’s analysis from a libertarian, anti-government, tax-hating CATO Institute paper by William Niskanen. “Fall 2006-Limiting Government: The Failure of “Starve the Beast”, explaining why that’s a fallacious proposition that has actually driven deficits higher : “(T)he starve-the-beast perspective has led too many conservatives and libertarians to be casual about the sustained political discipline necessary to control federal spending directly, succumbing to the fantasy that tax cuts would solve this problem. President George W. Bush, for example, has proposed and won the approval of most congressional Republicans for large in- creases in federal spending for agriculture, defense, education, en- ergy, homeland security, medical care, and transportation, and he has yet to veto a single spending bill. As a consequence, real per capita federal spending during the Bush administration has increased at the highest rate since the Johnson administration.

    “What to Do? Why not balance the budget without a tax increase? From my perspective, that would be desirable but most unlikely in the near term… If our political system then leads to decisions that roughly reflect voter preferences, the longer-term challenge for those of us who favor limited constitutional government is to try to convince voters to re- duce their demand for the services financed by federal spending. Until that time, some increase in federal taxes appears to be a necessary part of a fiscal policy to balance the budget.”

    I wouldn’t agree with this guy on much of anything when it comes to actual policy, but at least he can tell the difference between an absurd hustle and what a “serious” conservative fiscal agenda might look like – as well as acknowledging the political realities that make tax-cut dogma little more than pandering to a fickle and (at least hopefully, from this perspective) low-information electorate that one is treating, literally, like they’re children in selling a dishonest scheme.

    Of course, I’m “dolt of the year” and Roper has an IQ of 140!

  205. Randy Paul Says:

    You could take 100% of the income of those top1% and it wouldn’t make a dent in the deficit.

    Offered up without a scintilla of proof.

  206. reg Says:

    Since the top 1% take 23.5% of the total income as of 2005, with the share increasing dramaticall (80% of the increase in national wealth since 1980 went to this upper-upper-economic elite of the top 1%), and since the total share of GDP that is “consumed” socially, i.e. as government spending is somewhere around 19-20% of GDP, Roper’s assertion doesn’t even begin to make any sense. Of course, when have any assertions by GMRoper come close to being cogent or coherent? He’s mostly just an unhinged hate-monger (“Comrade Obama” as a Communist General!), with just slightly more faux self-awareness than the sniping racist Woody.

  207. reg Says:

    Here’s a source for that last, if anyone’s interested in data as opposed to hormonal expulsions:

    http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=2908

  208. Reg pretends he has life Says:

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

    Really.

  209. pablo Says:

    (“Comrade Obama” as a Communist General!)
    ———————————-

    Some months back I reported here that offensive depiction of the President dressed as a Soviet general.

    I just looked again That vile image is still on the GM Roper blog.
    It is disrespectful on several levels: it seeks to de-legitimize the will of the electorate while at the same time it exemplifies dog-whistle racism. On another level I disappoint myself because I really don’t wish to chaffer with the right wing because theirs is an exercise in class privilege.
    I agree with Louis Aragon’s observation that a there are only two sides to a barricade.

    For all of the argument seen in the above twenty or so posts we can observe just how profound Washington and the media can control the ambit of the debate.
    There are two arguments not being put forth:
    The first being that there is no debt crisis and the second being that the cost of empire is strangling the republic.
    To the first I say that job creation will spur tax revenues. To the second I think America needs to look at the trajectories of european empires in decline in order to see herself. I believe that the behaviour typified by GM Roper is spurred on by insideous nature of militarism and that both have strangled parcipatory democracy. Sacrifice the empire to save the republic is sometimes euphamistically referred to as “getting on the right side of history”. I heard that phrase in a speech today.. I wish I could be more optimistic.

  210. reg Says:

    “I believe that the behaviour typified by GM Roper is spurred on by insideous nature of militarism and that both have strangled parcipatory democracy”

    You’re giving this turd an awful lot of credit…

  211. reg Says:

    I never thought I would say anything this rude or insulting to anyone here, but Sergio actually makes GMRoper appear “substantive.” Sorry for that – I’ll immediately go wash my mouth out with soap, as my mother would wish.

  212. GMRoper Says:

    randy: “You could take 100% of the income of those top1% and it wouldn’t make a dent in the deficit.

    Offered up without a scintilla of proof.

    Geeze Randy, you really aren’t a serious commenter are you? Here you go updated as of October 2010 by IRS. Scroll down to the first graph.

    reg, do you do anything besides serial comments, be foul mouthed and be a total jerk? Just curious.

  213. Jim R Says:

    “I never thought I would say anything this rude or insulting to anyone here”

    We knew you could rise to the challenge reg.

    Now the President has given his campaign speech, laid out his ‘vision’, trashed the work hard work of someone else who actual created a ‘plan’, on paper, after inviting him to a front row seat to listen to you run your mouth (sorta like the Supreme Court insult at your State of the Union), when can we expect you Mr. President to get to work. When can we expect you to begin to act like an adult?

    Will you be passing the hard work off to your sleeping Vice President, while you continue on your campaign trail making costly giveaway promises you cannot keep….or heaven forbid, can.

    We’re fucked.

  214. Jim R Says:

    I hope to hell the fucking crooks at Goldman, and they’re just the tip of the iceberg on Wall Street, are made to do their long over due duck walk in chains to the worst fucking prison we have…….while everyone of the feckless Gov’t employees at another useless Gov’t over-site bureaucracy , the SEC, are summarily fired for gross incompetence. Better yet, close the whole fucking useless expensive do-nothing politically driven thing…….they all are.

    I think we should reopen Alcatraz just for all the disgusting greedy pocket-stuffing white collar bank robbing criminals, using the money from the forced selling of their assets to do it.

    Yeah right! This is about as likely as pocket-stuffing politicians giving us back the credit cards they picked our pockets to for. They’re all in it together, all in it for their own fucking selfish reasons. Everything else is smoke and mirrors, just like Goldman Sack’s used car salesman passing off gear-grinding, oil leaking, transmission slipping home mortgages to unsuspecting consumers, while investing in wrecker companies, that would be called to pick drag their clunkers off the road, themselves.

    Disgusting and pathetic, the whole fucking unspoken conspiracy between politicians and the MONEY MEN.

  215. reg Says:

    Roper – that graph has absolutely nothing to do with the absurd claim you made that “You could take 100% of the income of those top1% and it wouldn’t make a dent in the deficit.”

    Try again.

    As for what I do, I take your BS and grind it into little pieces…

  216. reg Says:

    Roper – are you stupid or just terminally dishonest ? I’m confused.

  217. reg Says:

    Jim R – you’re as much of a moron as Roper. Ryan’s ideological “cause” posing as a budget plan has been thoroughly debunked – but you’re still clinging to it like a lifeboat. Both of you are pathetic and – frankly – more than a bit deranged in the degree to which you persist in petty ignorance.

    I’m out of this thread because I’ve got real stuff to do.

  218. reg Says:

    Oh – okay – one more thing, as example of what a cancer the GOP is on the country:

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/rep-broun-fdr-was-a-communist-video.php?ref=fpblg

  219. Degreed cryptozoologist Says:

    Anna Churchill says to reg
    “You need to step up your game, buddy”
    Reg then eventually puts up a few more postings of his meandering mind.
    Anna Churchill then commends him for coming out of the closet(?) which spurs our resident moron to respond with even more, sort of like a good dog responds to a treat.
    Well, here’s a fact for you, AC. Reg lacks the mental capacity to step up his game. What you see here is pretty much what you get, don’t expect any kind of adult thinking and analysis from this slack jawed idiot. Oh sure, he can take occasional direction ok, as in your comment to step it up, but independent thought? No. He’s pretty much stuck in place, and like i wrote earlier, you can’t cure stupid.
    I also notice this dumb ass responds to damn near everyone with sarcasm, exept for you, AC. Whats up with that? You got his balls in a death grip, or something?

  220. Randy Paul Says:

    Reg is right GM. What you link to is data from 2008, a recessionary year.

    Moreover, you don’t address the longterm deficits. Even Ryan doesn’t believe that the deficits get fixed overnight. This is a graphic that diesplyas clearly how you can reduce the deficit.

    You might want to explore it a bit. You might learn something.

  221. Jim R Says:

    Be nice Sergio.

  222. Hester Says:

    Pablo says:

    “I just looked again That vile image is still on the GM Roper blog.
    It is disrespectful on several levels: it seeks to de-legitimize the will of the electorate while at the same time it exemplifies dog-whistle racism. ”

    Sorry Pablo, but that is just silly!

  223. pablo Says:

    Hester: More than silly, the image is disgusting..a window to the soul.

  224. Hester Says:

    Oh good grief, such hyperbole. I do not know the blog, but the image is hardly worse than the ubiquitous Bush/Hitler images during the Bush administration. Were you as outraged by those attempts to de-legitimize the will of the electorate?

  225. pablo Says:

    Here a timely discovery from the greatest American poet weighs in our discussion. For the world of literature this is a very good day:

    “.. the discovery of the letters will “shed most light” on Whitman’s work Democratic Vistas, published in 1871, in which the American author discusses the theory of democracy, criticising America for its “mighty, many-threaded wealth and industry”, which he felt hid a “dry and flat Sahara” of the soul.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/apr/14/walt-whitman-working-life

  226. pablo Says:

    Oh good grief, such hyperbole. I do not know the blog, but the image is hardly worse than the ubiquitous Bush/Hitler images during the Bush administration. Were you as outraged by those attempts to de-legitimize the will of the electorate?
    ————-

    No. Bush himself took care of that for me.

  227. AC Says:

    Good catch on the Whitman, Pablo.

    Best Whitman line ever: ‘stand up for the stupid’

  228. AC Says:

    Hester there is a big difference between comparing Bush to Hitler as a reaction to his bloody policies than the racist tat still being whipped round the internet depicting Obama as a monkey etc.

    Of course the most alarming moronic and ironic epithet thrown at him: Socialist/Marxist is hilarious given…well read Pablo’s succinct and chilling brief of who not just Obama but the master all President’s serve.

  229. Degreed cryptozoologist Says:

    Hmm. AC, the way you fawn all over pablo should be embarrassing to you. But then, from reading some of your posts, i conclude you, like our resident moron, have no shame.
    I wonder, does pablo have YOU by the gonads, like as you with reg?

  230. av2ts Says:

    False pretense for war in Libya?

    EVIDENCE IS now in that President Barack Obama grossly exaggerated the humanitarian threat to justify military action in Libya. The president claimed that intervention was necessary to prevent a “bloodbath’’ in Benghazi, Libya’s second-largest city and last rebel stronghold.

    But Human Rights Watch has released data on Misurata, the next-biggest city in Libya and scene of protracted fighting, revealing that Moammar Khadafy is not deliberately massacring civilians but rather narrowly targeting the armed rebels who fight against his government.

    But intervention did not prevent genocide, because no such bloodbath was in the offing. To the contrary, by emboldening rebellion, US interference has prolonged Libya’s civil war and the resultant suffering of innocents.

    Despite ubiquitous cellphones equipped with cameras and video, there is no graphic evidence of deliberate massacre. Images abound of victims killed or wounded in crossfire — each one a tragedy — but that is urban warfare, not genocide.

    Nor did Khadafy ever threaten civilian massacre in Benghazi, as Obama alleged. The “no mercy’’ warning, of March 17, targeted rebels only, as reported by The New York Times, which noted that Libya’s leader promised amnesty for those “who throw their weapons away.’’ Khadafy even offered the rebels an escape route and open border to Egypt, to avoid a fight “to the bitter end.’’

    So we have another President that deliberately lied and twisted words around in order to start a war. Anyone give a crap?

  231. pablo Says:

    Degreed cryptozoologist:

    You misinterpret the banter.

    Isn’t there a crouching tiger or hidden dragon suitable enough for your next advanced degree?
    If I am not mistaken that would be your 5th Time Around.

    So why snipe?

  232. Degreed cryptozoologist Says:

    I misinterpret nothing, pablo. You have AC practically drooling over your every word. But have a caution in your dealings with her, my friend. She could, and likely will, turn on you at the drop of a hat. The moment she “misinterprets” your disagreement over whatever issue as a sign of betrayal, you can expect to feel the knife go in, hard and deep.
    For more info on the phenomenon that we know as anna churchill, look up border-line personality disorder.

  233. reg Says:

    I need to apologize to GMROper – I said that his link has nothing to do with his ridiculous allegation about the top 1%. I just looked at the last column on tax rates. But if you look at all columns it becomes obvious that Roper posted a link that disproves his silly comment – even in a recessionary year – with essentially the same information that I offered.

    Degreed Cryptozoologist must be marveling at Roper’s deft move…which I assume he can do in his shaving mirror.

  234. reg Says:

    “I do not know the blog, but the image is hardly worse than the ubiquitous Bush/Hitler images during the Bush administration.”

    Had, say, marc cooper or any of the other liberal blogs I read – Political Animal, TPM, Think Progress, etc. – featured such an image on their website, I would have considered them cranks not worth taking seriously. Which, of course, applies to the moron in question. We’ve now got Donald Trump trumpeting birtherism and the most popular (or tied for first) GOP candidate among both Republicans and independents. Sorry, but the cancer that is contemporary (and phony) “conservatism” has no equivalent among liberals. You can point anecdotally to stuff at the margins of anything, but the GOP has jumped the shark and has mainstreamed both Big Lies and something that is dangerously close to insanity. And it’s all in service – in terms of policy – of an elitist agenda, with a fundamentalist/racial & cultural resentments smokescreen to give it a “populist” patina. It’s a cancer on the country. Among other things, the right-wing has driven the deficits up over a generation, and done it deliberately out of contempt for the very idea of responsible government.

  235. Hester Says:

    “Had, say, marc cooper or any of the other liberal blogs I read – Political Animal, TPM, Think Progress, etc. – featured such an image on their website, I would have considered them cranks not worth taking seriously.”

    Precisely. My point was that Pablo was investing the posting of the Obama/ Soviet General image with just a bit too much power and seriousness.

  236. pablo Says:

    Just the opposite! I was reminding the readers of my previous report about the image; remarkable enough that it also got critical condemnation by the editor of Beautiful Horizons -both here and on that blog-, and is being offered as circumstantial evidence that GMROPER should not be taken seriously if at all!

    Hester then compared my assertion that the vile image of President Obama on Roper’s blog de-legitimizes the will of electorate to be analogous to those of depictions of Bush/ Hitler as also delegitimizing the will of the electorate… an amazing claim in the face of a stolen election.

    Off-topic arcane criticism of an off-hand collateral observation regarding GMRoper’s obdurate snark behaviour should give the reader pause. Perhaps the criticism is a substitute for other assertions I made earlier- critical of the Dems and Obama- in this, or other, threads.

  237. Sergio Says:

    Off topic?

  238. Hester Says:

    Pablo, really, this is becoming even more silly by the word! My comment was nothing more than what I said it was.

    Believe me, I have no problem with your criticism of Obama, the Dems or anybody else, so my criticism was not a “substitute” for your other assertions! I must say, your third paragraph is a gem of convoluted reasoning.

    As for that tired old meme, Bush’s “stolen” election, good lord, spare me. I voted for Gore, but really, the persistence with which you ideologues hang on to this stuff is bizarre.

  239. AC Says:

    Hester you are in dreamland.

    i wasnt even in US for that election but was listening to internet radio right after when all the reports from precinct workers were piling in with all the witnessed fraud from fucked up machines to obstruction of the polls.

    the tired old ‘meme’ is dismissiveness…

    there is nothing ideological about the outright criminal behavior that was being witnessed and reported immediately during the voting and right after.

  240. pablo Says:

    Sergio:

    My recital at this cyber-Caupolican Theater has ended for this evening.

  241. Jim R Says:

    Promise?

  242. GMRoper Says:

    Randy, those are, as far as I can determine the latest figures. The total adjusted gross income for the top 1% is $1,685,472,000,000.00 or 1.685 trillion dollars. Let’s assume, since those are “recessionary incomes.” that their income doubled to the present time, and you know that didn’t happen, but let’s use that doubling figure for example. That would give the total of 3.37 trillion dollars AGI. Since the current debt is (accumulated deficits) is 14 trillion my statement stands and even if we use that initial figure for the current annual deficit we are talking about 1.347 trillion (and growing by the minute) projected to be around 1.54 trillion and that is only this year.

    Randy, my initial statement was “You could take 100% of the income of those top1% and it wouldn’t make a dent in the deficit.” with a 14 trillion dollar deficit (debt) and the top 1% having an AGI of 1.685 trillion I’d think you could see that I did have proof. Perhaps you and reg need to take a remedial math course.

    Of course, none of you can or will admit that the current profligate spending can be sustained, and that the deficit of the bush years which you complained about ad nauseum has been dwarfed by The Won and the Democrat hacks in the congress.

  243. GMRoper Says:

    “can be sustained” should read “cannot be sustained.”

  244. GMRoper Says:

    I’m tired of screwing around with willful ignoramuses such as reg.

    GM Out!

  245. reg Says:

    You don’t know the difference between the debt and the deficit?

    OMFG! You’re even dumber than I thought. You’re using an annual income figure and comparing it to the total national debt. You said “wouldn’t make a dent in the deficit,” when it’s obvious that the top 1% take in a larger income than the federal budget.

    “Deficit” refers to budget deficits and apply to fiscal years. “Debt” refers to the accumulated national debt over decades – and the only important measure is as % of GDP. You’re using an idiot’s “apples and oranges” comparison and don’t understand the words you’re tossing about. Sorry Roper, but once again you prove that you are the moron. Also, your understanding of the source of deficits in the last two years are completely bogus. Most of the current deficits are driven by decisions made during Bush’s term. This is a fact, but I’m not even going to bother to link, because you are so deep in your pit of ignorance, you’re beyond reason. This last turn of yours is just one more boring testament to what a wilfully ignorant, dishonest and rancid crank you happen to be.

  246. Randy Paul Says:

    I’m tired of screwing around with willful ignoramuses such as reg.

    Projection?

    Reg nails you, GM.

  247. Jim R Says:

    “Ryan’s ideological “cause” posing as a budget plan has been thoroughly debunked – but you’re still clinging to it like a lifeboat.”

    We are all clinging to lifeboats. The difference between us is responsible adults see the need to bail out water flooding in, while irresponsible useless dead-weights stand around watching. No, telling everyone not to believe their lying eyes.

    The President, like the Captain of the Titanic, wants to cruise on autopilot, full speed ahead in well known treacherous waters, believing the Titanic Economy of the US will not likely hit a huge iceberg, but even if it did, his Keynesian left-wing economists are telling him the Titanic can survive it.

    It’s interesting these Keynesian ideologues, like Krugman, are all liberal leftist Washington worshipers. One has to wonder which came first, the belief in the economic theory or the political theory. I believe the latter. They just fit to conveniently together.

    At a time we seriously need a serious and mature leader, we are hobbled with an inexperienced immature follower who enjoys running his mouth, and Airforce One, more than working in the Oval Office on a huge country’s huge problems.

    Hillary is seriously pissed, and I hope to hell she does something seriously about it.

  248. reg Says:

    More incoherent blather, Jim….congrats.

  249. Anna Churchill Says:

    There is Wisconsin and then there is Missouri:

    http://www.aspca.org/News/National/National-News-Detail.aspx?NDate=20110415&NType=National#News1

  250. Anna Churchill Says:

    I wonder how partisan the issue of animal cruelty is.

  251. Anna Churchill Says:

    why gosh, gee, its very partisan:

    http://www.kansascity.com/2011/04/14/2801542/missouri-bill-limits-lawsuits.html

    Missouri is puppy mill capitol of the country.

  252. reg Says:

    This is probably the most telling graph as regards budget deficits.

    http://www.cepr.net/calculators/hc/hc-calculator.html

    Go there and click on the boxes for France and the Netherlands, both of which have longer life expectancy and quality care, and see what our budget deficits would look like if we modeled their universal health care systems and achieved the same cost-per-capita. This is simple, empirical stuff – yet we have ravers here making hysterical noises and pointing in every wild direction except toward the realities of our long-term budget issues…

  253. Jim R Says:

    If you refuse to help bail, any chances of removing your dead-weight? Since this won’t happen for obvious reasons (hell you want even a scale back with us on the rations), any chance of getting you to at least shut-up while the rest of us are bailing to save your ass.?

  254. Randy Paul Says:

    any chance of getting you to at least shut-up while the rest of us are bailing to save your ass.

    A lot of sound and fury there; not signifying anything . . .

  255. Dan O Says:

    Jim R

    Everyone is Keynesian. It’s just that Republicans hide the public spending in the military budget.

    Also, you seriously need to stop arguing by analogy all the time. Boats, bailing, credit cards, household budgets, captains, icebergs, blah blah. It’s an incredibly weak form of argument that often clouds the substantive issues at play.

    It’s great for demagoguing, though–you got that part down.

  256. pablo Says:

    …all of the nautical terms, the tempest and shipwreck as metaphor for budget are shrill exaggerations couched in polemics and a parroting of Sean Hannity.

    Shrill in the sense the the underlying objections are related to the philosophical underpinning of limited government entitlements except for the military and that the present recession is the canard employed to gin up a further transfer of wealth upward.

    Exaggeration in the sense that the CBO now reports that after all of the kabuki theatre emanating from the two ruling parties- replete with a recitation of every nautical disaster from the Hesperus to the Morro Castle- that this latest “historic” legislative accomplishment accomplishes little.

    Polemical in the sense that none of the issues relayed to debt or deficit touch you personally and you have not been asked nor will you make any personal sacrifice.

    Parroting in the sense that the very same Titanic metaphor
    were part of the fascista talking points and was employed across the Fox spectrum just three days ago; packaged for the neo-conservative panjandrum with the instruction to use liberally.

  257. reg Says:

    I’m going to double down on the half-baked analogy and suggest that the “Captain” of this particular Titanic was Ronald Reagan who (although he initiated what was the biggest tax increase in California history – one sixth of the state budget – and raised taxes 11 times as President, taking back a full half of his 1981 cut and increased the size of the federal government at twice the rate of Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford combined) is the Patron Saint (okay, so he’s a “Saint” AND a “Captain”) of the Gospel of Tax Cuts (now we’re navigating a boat by a sacred doctrinal text, but these are blog comments, so what the hell.)

    Reagan tripled the gross federal debt in 8 years – which had taken 31 years to accomplish prior to his ascension. Both Bushes followed suit. Clinton famously worked to produce a surplus. While WBush inherited a surplus from Clinton, Obama has, according to all independent analysts – Politifact for one – inherited most of his debt from the active policies (tax cuts to erase potential surpluses, unfunded Medicare and unfunded wars, financial crisis and deep, deep recessionary impact that marked the Bush years. It’s also a simple fact – not “ideology” – that government needs to come in with stimulative measures that have an inevitable immediate cost in budgetary terms when consumer demand and investment are in the toilet, as they have been.

    This is pretty basic stuff – aka “facts” – but Jim R is too dense to catch on to any of it, and Roper is too much of an insane ideologue who is so small he can’t even acknowledge error in the context of making a silly off-hand comment. Pathetic. The narcissism of these two is mind-boggling.

  258. reg Says:

    Any recent generational reading of “Titanic metaphors” leads to the musical question that follows Bob Dylan’s “the Titanic sails at dawn” line from Desolation Row – “Everybody’s shouting, which side are you on?”

    Regarding the Foxoid incantation however, the “iceberg” has been Tax Cuts as fiscal doctrine, unhinged from any responsible accounting of actually existing obligations of the federal government – something that can’t be “wished” away or simply “starved” without confronting the politics of doing something as extremist as eliminating Medicare as a cost-effective single-payer insurance for seniors (the most cost-effective health insurance system within the US borders, despite the Big Lies and Aggressive Ignorance of Foxoid mouth-breathers and acolytes of the militantly anti-Christian pot-boiling polemicist pf self-love, Ayn Rand – who is by his own admission Paul Ryan’s “inspiration.” (But Paul Krugman is an “ideologue.” Hah!)

  259. reg Says:

    Dan O – “Everyone is a Keynesian”
    Dick Cheney – “Reagan taught us deficits don’t matter.”

  260. pablo Says:

    you forgot the deck chairs..

  261. reg Says:

    Deck chairs? How about the government funded “mobility scooters” that provide such comfort to the FOX audience as they immerse themselves in the glorious spectacle of Glenn Beck’s Chalkboard of the Apocalypse! There I’ve mixed another metaphor in. Soon we will attain Perfect Understanding. (But not likely without at least one reference to football…the “unreal” one.)

  262. Rob Grocholski Says:

    Ya, boats alright…
    It’s just that some are assigned to be rowers.
    And the current edition of the ‘always-be-cutting-taxes’ crowd never put their oars in the water…

  263. AC Says:

    just in: Allende’s body to be exhumed to see if it was suicide or death by Kissinger:

    …”"The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves… I don’t see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people,” Kissinger said at the time.”

    Just a reminder of the ship of reality.

    Get off the Ship of Fools all ye who claim to be progressive

  264. AC Says:

    http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/04/ryan-2012-budget-passes

    thats a happy thought…

  265. qdpsteve Says:

    Deck chairs? How about the government funded “mobility scooters” that provide such comfort to the FOX audience as they immerse themselves in the glorious spectacle of Glenn Beck’s Chalkboard of the Apocalypse!

    Apparently you didn’t get the memo Reg. Beck is officially old news at Fox News:

    http://patterico.com/2011/04/06/beck-program-off-the-air-at-fox/

  266. reg Says:

    He’s still among their highest rated shows…despite their plans for moving his deck chair and the likelihood that he will launch his own Intergalactic Chalkboard of the Apocalypse Channel as soon as he’s picked Ailes pocket for all he can walk off with.

    Don’t act like Beck isn’t a big player among “conservatards” still, despite the slight embarrassments he’s brought to a movement that seems to increasingly be coalescing around the more credible Donald Trump.

  267. qdpsteve Says:

    Reg– not that you asked but I personally could care less about Beck. Don’t watch him, don’t listen to him, don’t read his books. Same with Rushbo. I know about him for the same reason I know about Oprah going away this summer… because he’s a media juggernaut other folks like to write/snark about.

    Assuming you’re correct about his show being one of Fox’s ‘highest rated,’ however… doesn’t make sense to me why Murdoch would let him go if he’s still bringin’ in the bigtime advertising bucks. It’s not like he was turning into something crazy/crazier, a la Charlie Sheen.

  268. jim hitchcock Says:

    Beck’s sponsors have been bailing at a prodigious rate.

  269. reg Says:

    First the GOP congress votes almost unanimously to kill Medicare, then this…

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/poll-donald-trump-leads-gop-primary-by-wide-margin.php?ref=fpb

    If the Dems can’t take this insanity to the bank, so to speak, I’ll let Pablo fill in the preferences on my voter reg card for 2014..

  270. Dan O Says:

    The deficit! The deficit! Oh my god, cut the deficit! It’s the only way to save us!

    http://www.businessinsider.com/british-austerity-warning-2011-4

  271. Jim R Says:

    God I hate you bastards. Well, maybe not Pablo. He tries to be a nice boy I think.

    I especially hate old people like reg. He can’t die soon enough for me.

    Glad my metaphor irritated you guys. Metaphors are especially effective for those who can’t, or won’t, see reality.

    Here’s two more. Daddy is now in charge of the checkbook. It’s time to starve the hydra-headed money eating monster.

  272. Jim R Says:

    What was more surprising than the news the 2% spending cut actually turned out to be .0002% (Washington lovers accountants working their magic), was how many more bushels of billions were already allocated, laying around, for the monster he couldn’t eat fast enough without choking.

    But we ain’t got no spending problem, we’s got a revenue problem folks.

  273. Randy Paul Says:

    Glad my metaphor irritated you guys. Metaphors are especially effective for those who can’t, or won’t, see reality.

    Actually it’s the metier of those who have a piss poor grasp of facts and history.

    I can’t speak for Dan or anyone else but myself, but the constant metaphors do precious little more than underscore the vacuity of your arguments.

    Dan’s right: you’re little more than a flatulent demagogue. It’s all you’ve got,

  274. reg Says:

    Go fuck yourself Jim. You’re a miserable psychopath. Terminally toxic and ignorant as hell. You’ve completely stripped yourself of any moral “high ground” – after proving yourself incapable of rational argument or even simple grasp of facts. Worthless. If an little shit like you didn’t “hate” me, it would do serious damage to my self-esteem.

  275. GMRoper Says:

    I see trash mouth is still pontificating with his usual garbage. I wonder who must have slapped him upside the head when he was a child and permanently scrambled his thinking processes.

    Randy, if you really think reg’s absurd claims and potty mouth got me, you are not a serious thinker nor a serious commenter. Your supercilious comments not withstanding that is.

  276. Degreed cryptozoologist Says:

    Thats a good question as to why reg is like he is. A great deal of it is his general stupidity, that explains why he’s always so quick with the insult. Like all lower IQ people, he’s not capable of anything more. However, i wager that in real life he comes across as meek as a lamb, understanding that if he lets loose like he does here, sooner or later some one gonna happily shut his mouth. Hell, it probably happened to him a few times already, and who amongst us wouldn’t pay to see that ass kicking.
    I also notice randy paul like to jump in to defend this brainless moron every once in a while. I wonder why. Probably nothing more complicated than both of them being like two peas in a pod.
    I swear, of all the leftie communist lovers here, anna churchill’s got the biggest set of balls of the bunch. Notice how she bitch slaps reg every now and again when she thinks he’s drifted from the party line. And then notice how he gets back in, without so much as a whimper to AC. The only person she won’t correct is pablo, but i sense thats more in line with her hero worship of him more than anything else.

  277. AC Says:

    reg, i am begging you: stop being a chump to Jim, GM et al. By playing into their game you unwittingly capsize every thread…keeping with the nautical theme.

    Wouldn’t it be interesting to see just one thread with a grown up conversation.

    Baring that time to start keelhauling a few people…mmm lets see…Randy if you hold Decrazy down i’ll tie the rope. Dan can toss him over board.

  278. Degreed cryptozoologist Says:

    Thanks for making my point about the size of your gonads there, AC. In addition to having the biggest set, i bet they’re also made of brass. How else could you cry about the lack of adult conversation without dying of shame at your own hypocrisy?

  279. Randy Paul Says:

    Randy, if you really think reg’s absurd claims and potty mouth got me, you are not a serious thinker nor a serious commenter. Your supercilious comments not withstanding that is.

    I’m thinking of Macbeth, Act 5 Scene 5 Lines 27 and 28.

  280. Randy Paul Says:

    I also notice randy paul like to jump in to defend this brainless moron every once in a while. I wonder why. Probably nothing more complicated than both of them being like two peas in a pod.

    [BIG YAWN]

    Personally I think it’s Woody posting from a cyber cafe or somewhere that Marc hasn’t yet captured the IP address.

  281. Randy Paul Says:

    Paul Ryan appears to be living in a big glass house and is a nasty hypocrite.

  282. AC Says:

    Randy, copy that. Suspected it might be Woody.

  283. AC Says:

    If not Woody, then certainly, as you allude to…an idiot.

  284. qdpsteve Says:

    I especially hate old people like reg. He can’t die soon enough for me.

    Uh, Jim: you know this could be construed legally as a threat of violence, right?

    However loathesome you may find Reg and Randy Paul and their rhetoric, they ain’t worth going to jail over.

  285. GMRoper Says:

    Randy, I was thinking more of A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act 3, scene 2 line 115 substituting the word “progressives” for the word “mortals.”

    Puck: “Lord, what fools these mortals progressives be.”

  286. GMRoper Says:

    Jim, I’m a member of the “old people” class as is I assume you think reg is. As much as I dislike reg’s obnoxious posts that comment of yours is out of line. You should apologize or get the hell out.

  287. Jim R Says:

    Easy boys. I’m not picking on old people or threatening anyone’s life for godsake. It was a satirical admission I’m fitting the liberal/lefts description of the right-wing wanting old people to die, and quickly according to ex-Senator Grayson’s famous speech on the Senate floor.

    Regarding “God I hate you bastards”, its what I say to my friends when their serial ribbing me about whatever. It’s not meant literally. I don’t take politics anywhere near as seriously as some. Jezzus!

    This not an apology because none is needed by any stretch. Instead, you two need to lighten up…..and find a funny bone.

  288. Randy Paul Says:

    At least mine needed no alteration.

  289. AC Says:

    oh i love it when the PC putz’s jump in. this just gets more and more surreal.

    reggie: this is what happens when you engage trolls whose JOB it is to do drive by canned right wing nonsense. their JOB is to capsize liberal threads. the only way it can happen is if posters take the bait and try to gulag them for ‘re education’. unfortunately, reggie, they have nothing to loose by not confessing the sins of their ideological corruption. now if you were the commandant of a re education camp such as the monks in Tibet are about to be sent to…

    save us, reggie.

  290. AC Says:

    and pretzel boy you have outdone yourself with your bendy brain salad logic: you take offense that Jim says silly nonsense but don’t when civilians are being bombed. can we see an mri of your brain? maybe its just a bunch of old nautical rope tied in knots. or…maybe a bag of pretzels. that must be it.

  291. Sergio Says:

    The (coming soon) death of the US Empire will include whiny old online liberals as well.

  292. GMRoper Says:

    Randy: “At least mine needed no alteration.”

    Perhaps, but it has been overused by both sides, to the point of triteness, and you weren’t clever enough to alter it. ;-)

  293. GMRoper Says:

    Jim, some four years ago, a troll by the name of York made a comment directed at me along these lines: “something else is eating you now” referring to my battle against lung cancer.

    That line was inappropriate, though York tried to defend it saying it was in jest.

    Joking about the death of a political opponent is never appropriate, in any venue. Haven’t the, what may be very real, death threats against both liberals and conservatives meant anything to you?

    You may have meant it as humor, but it really doesn’t come across as such.

  294. AC Says:

    @ GM: given your political views; i wonder how ‘appropriate’ you feel about a battle against lung cancer fought by someone with no health insurance? ou…peut etre quelqu’un who was say….mmmm a first responder after the WTC and like hundreds is now faced with all sorts of health, lung, respiratory, cancer problems AND NO HEALTH CARE…until only recently…did that bill finally pass? did the patriotic republicans vote to make sure these people were taken care of? and why should it have been necessary to even have to create legislation for such a thing?

    i wonder, GM, do you ever play your political ideology off against reality? like most republicans you only care about yourself. i find it really offensive that you play victim to someone on a blog taking a poke at you, but find no offense in your political ideas that directly and indirectly KILL PEOPLE.

  295. GMRoper Says:

    AC, do you ever stop and think yourself. I have significant problems with Obamacare precisely because a one-size-fits-all approach. I do NOT have a problem with providing access to health care for those that can’t afford it. In fact, in my own health care business I always, ALWAYS provide counseling to at least one individual or family or service man or the surviving family of a serviceman when they have a need for mental health services and have no way to pay for it.

    I think Obama care was not well thought out, remember pelosi’s “we have to pass it to see whats in it.”

    So AC, kiss my hind end. Because I’m conservative you automatically assume you know what I support or don’t support.

  296. AC Says:

    did you enjoy benefit of Medicare?

    and you are not worth having a debate with just on the basis of you calling the deformed piece of legislation (thanks to appeasement and the monumental greed and stupidity of Republicans) “Obamacare”.

    already you take yourself off the table for any serious discussion.

    about anything.

    and your completely lunatic sentence: “I do NOT have a problem with providing access to health care for those that can’t afford it. ”

    in that sentence alone is the conundrum you refuse to acknowledge.

    and your further demonstration of refusal to deal with facts rather than ideological mind bending is one you further refer to the need for a civilized universal health care program as: ‘one size fits all’.

    again: Medicare working alright for you since you declared yourself an ‘old guy’ or are you too rich to bother?

    let see you answer the question on whether or not you enjoy your benefits?

    just answer that question. because when you say yes. you might as well jump off a cliff with all your canned gibber about ‘Obamacare’.

    I’ll meet you on the edge of the Grand Canyon.

  297. AC Says:

    If you want to be taken seriously answer how you felt about first responders being hung out to die for lack of healthcare…not to mention the conditions at Walter Reade and the plight of veterans.

    get out that magic republican slide rule and caclulator you guys seemed to have been born with as opposed to a silver spoon– and do a little ideological number crunching.

    there is such a thing as the HUMAN COST. factor that in.

  298. AC Says:

    good fun…the deficit 101:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzULm4d8h8w&feature=share

    …and how i learned to stop worrying about Bush and started worrying about Obama instead.

  299. tfile Says:

    Waiting for GM’s reply.
    Again…GM took a BM and disappeared.

  300. GMRoper Says:

    did you enjoy benefit of Medicare?
    I’m not on medicare – yet
    but as it currently stands, do you have any idea what medicare will cost? No, neither does anyone else because it is an open ended benefit. I would suggest that anyone with an AGI over 250K would have their benefit slashed or some form of means testing. Medicare, when originally enacted did NOT include all the benefits currently allowed. It is an open ended entitlement with few limits.

    I protested the conditions at Walter Reed (learn to spell

    Talk about canned gibber, do you do anything here except mouth the latest democrat tropes about how evil rethuglicans are? No? I didn’t think so.

    and your completely lunatic sentence: “I do NOT have a problem with providing access to health care for those that can’t afford it. ”

    in that sentence alone is the conundrum you refuse to acknowledge.

    Crap, my sentence that you didn’t like was in direct response to you averring that I did. Keep track of your own arguments and quit erecting strawmen and/or shifting the argument when you don’t like the answer you get.

    tfile, you can kiss my ass too.

  301. Jim R Says:

    Help us out here Marc. Change the subject with a new post. May I suggest your take on the Royal Wedding, to include any inside info regarding the Wedding dress choice.

    ITMT, S&P just downgraded US creditworthiness from ‘stable’ to ‘negative’. Have a nice day.

  302. Jim R Says:

    That’s “Have a nice day everyone, and pray for peace in the budget war.

  303. reg Says:

    Not that truth matters in an insane asylum, but:

    “S&P maintained its ‘AAA/A-1+’ credit rating on U.S. sovereign debt, saying the nation’s ‘highly diversified’ economy and ‘effective monetary policies’ have helped support growth.”

    Those “effective monetary policies”, of course, would be one of the measures that the right-wing cranks claim are destructive and “inflationary”, which is total bullshit.

    But arguing anything here on evidence as opposed to notions pulled from one’s ass has become a fools errand.

  304. reg Says:

    Incidentally, anyone who considers Standard and Poors (or Moody’s) as something other than a tarnished arm of the financial services industry (they have a monoply licensing deal with the American Bankers Association, among other things) is sipping Kool-Aid. Prior to the 2008 melt-down, “credit ratings of AAA (the highest rating available) were given to large portions of even the riskiest pools of loans. Investors, trusting the low risk profile that AAA implies, loaded up on these CDOs that later became unsellable.” Standard & Poors is neither unbiased nor particularly trustworty, one way or the other. They will not stray far from the Wall Street reservation and the interests of the economic elite. Deficit hysteria is their big club right now, despite the fact that their “Tax Cuts Uber Alles” ideology drove the deficits (deliberately IMHO) And useful idiots amp up the volume. Pathetic.

  305. Jim R Says:

    So can we put you down as present in this war between the Extremists and the Ostriches reg?

    One only need look at reg’s attitude, reflective of the general Democratic Party’s, to understand how we got this deep in shit to begin with. There is no need for negotiations because there is no problem?

  306. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Says:

    Over 300 comments so far and no one has mentioned the “N” word. Must be a record.

  307. Jim R Says:

    Alan Greenspan, a smart person but a free market idealog in total denial regarding the need to regulate Derivatives (the primary cause of the financial meltdown), said this Sunday on MSNBC the Bush Tax Cuts need to be rescinded as part of a debt deal.

    I happen to agree with him. To fucking bad he was recommending just the opposite when Bush was President, and fought like hell to keep regulators out of the financial markets, even pro-active enforcement of existing regulations at the time (we can’t blame it all on the SEC).

    But I only agree if the President is also willing to match increased revenue with decreased gov’t spending and size. The classic problem with increased taxes for decreased spending is taxes go up but gov’t size and and speeding never do. We just witnessed what happened to the $38 Billion speeding bill, before the ink even dried.

    Conservatives in general are not against taxes to support NEEDED gov’t services. The problem is selfish career politicians collude to not only give more stuff away when the economy is good(it is not their personal money they are spending after-all), but are terrified of losing their ‘gov’t career’ if they agree to cut back on these out-of-control programs when the economy sucks.

    When the fear of losing their job is driven more by failure to control programs than by the blatant political demagogues (the Demagogue-in-Chief is actually leading for a change), then those responsible for actually paying the bills, including politicians bloated personal perks, will win.

    This is beginning to happen.

  308. reg Says:

    Jim – I understand how annoying it must be to have anyone cloud your mind with more information…

  309. reg Says:

    I guess I’m a real lunatic not for not bowing to Standard and Poors’ bit “downgrade.”

    I mean the interest rates on Treasury bonds dropped nearly a tenth of a percentage point today after the “big news.” Yeah they dropped. Terrible news! The sky is falling!

    Oh…wait a minute. What’s that you say, Mr Krugman – and anyone else who has an iota of a clue about how that world works? An interest rate drop means the Treasury is finding bonds even easier to sell. So that interest rate drop is good news regarding those big time investor’s confidence in the US’ ability to handle its debt?

    Well, why let facts get in the way. The sky is falling because…well, because somebody said so on the internet!!!!

  310. reg Says:

    “big downgrade” and what’s with two “nots” ??

  311. Degreed cryptozoologist Says:

    I wouldn’t worry about apologizing for your consistant fuck-ups, reg. They’ve become so commonplace that when you DON’T screw the pooch, its big news.
    Like most dumbasses, you’ll occasionally get some kind of minute spark in that soggy, dense noggin then literally trip all over yourself to get it posted. Hell, maybe you get in such a hurry because you fear another bitch slap from AC if your pitiful thoughts aren’t frequent enough and/or to her liking. Remember, when compared to pablo, in her eyes, you look and sound like someone tried to stuff 10 pounds of shit into a 5 pound bag.
    I’d hate to be a pitiful so and so like you.

  312. reg Says:

    You dumb fuck. You didn’t even understand what I wrote.

    You’re not even on par with a bag of hammers. My assumption is that you’re what comes out at night in what’s left of GMRoper’s mind. If not, you apparently can’t even scrape together his occasional moments of grace. Very sad – or it would be if I gave a shit.

  313. reg Says:

    Jim R – you actually showed some glimmers of sanity (along with a lot of the usual self-contradictory and confused bullshit.)

    Congratulations. Seeing even a sliver of a possibility for your redemption gives me a reason to go on living…

    Your lucky fucking day!

  314. Hester Says:

    Is Marc on vacation?

  315. Degreed cryptozoologist Says:

    Leave it to a numbnuts like you to speak of grace, not even having the first fucking clue what that is. No surprise there, as i highly doubt you have the first clue about most anything. Keep posting your nonsensical rants, though. If you slack off by much AC’s gonna make another one of her periodic appearances and knock your dick stiff again.

  316. reg Says:

    Impressive…

  317. reg Says:

    I was particularly struck by “degreed cryptozoologist’s” sobering analysis of today’s 3% drop in interest rates on Treasury bonds in the wake of the big S&P “downgrade.”

    That was enlightening…

  318. reg Says:

    James Fallows at the Atlantic, who is of course a complete fucking idiot and runs scared of Anna C, asks:

    “What I’d really like to know is who S&P likes in the Hornets-Lakers series, or this season of American Idol. Their views would carry just as much weight. Also I’d like to know why the news ecology treated this as such a big deal?”

    Degreed Cryptozoologist takes another scalp…

  319. AC Says:

    GM…better minds than yours have proven the efficacy of Medicare. you are still humping the crazy platform of the kleptocrats.

    you still havent answered the question about your personal relationship to Medicare other than now you say you are not old enough to use it– after having declared you were an ‘old guy’.

    do you plan on using Medicare? so you are telling me that had your health crisis happened when you were 65 or older you would not have used Medicare out of conscience because all the modern treatments that were not in existence back when Medicare was instituted?

    what about social security. planning on giving that back?

    have you ever been to europe– lived in a european country?

  320. Ahmed Says:

    Three hundred and nineteen. Wow. Y’all like to yap :)

  321. GMRoper Says:

    AC, I have to make a “medicare” decision no later than July of this year because I turn 65 in Sept. My current thinking is that I will not sign up as I’m covered by private health insurance with no reason to believe that it will be ending any time soon. As to my lung cancer expenses, I paid plenty out of pocket expenses and deductables. There was a 5K cap on out of pocket which I obviously met. But, there were also a number of people getting chemo beside me every week, covered by either medicare or medicaid and that is fine, as I said, I have no problem with people getting the care they need, but there is a cap.

    I have lived in Europe and in Central America, I was born in Germany. I have seen first hand what an unlimited welfare state causes and don’t want this country to go through the same.

    If my health care crisis had happened after age 65 (and that is still a possibility, cancer can always re-occur) I’d still be using my private health insurance. I’m very lucky that I have it, and I think that we, as a nation can afford at least basic health care for our citizens.

    I also live in a poverty stricken area (deep south Texas) and have visited the ER at night. Once, an officer of INS walked in and the ER almost emptied in less than 10 minutes… are you telling me that those folk suddenly got well?

    As was famously said, the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money.

    But lets ask you… do you accept any form of welfare benefits? SSI? Medicaid? Medicare and do you try to limit what you use, or do you say “WTF – Someone else is paying for this?”

    Do you cheat on an insurance claim thinking that your carrier can afford it. Do you tell the clerk at the convenience store that he gave you a dime too much in change or do you think “well, what the hell, they charge too much on everything else?” Do you pay taxes, and if so, do you contribute extra to the IRS… if not, why not?

    Do you cheerfully increase your withholding to the maximum amount so that you get a large refund and generously loan that extra money to the IRS in what amounts to an interest free loan?

    Do you maximize your itemizations on your tax return or just the minimum thinking that the government needs your money more than you do?

    Do you bitch when you get a speeding ticket thinking the cops ought to be out catching the real crooks?

    Do you give generously to charity, and neglect to deduct it from your tax return? Or do you take every deduction you can, legally or “otherwise.”

  322. GMRoper Says:

    I also think Medicare needs to be means tested and that Medicaid and SSI need careful screening as to it’s use. I think that too often, benefits are abused including such as fairly wealthy (family wise) college kids using food stamps. Technically, they have no income while in college, but their family can obviously afford meals for their child in school. I have, on occasion, a parent ask me to diagnosis a child with ADHD because they plan to apply for SSI for their child. I refuse if the child doesn’t have severe ADHD or if their ADHD is controlable with treatment or medications from their doc.

  323. Jim R Says:

    “you actually showed some glimmers of sanity (along with a lot of the usual self-contradictory and confused bullshit.) Congratulations. Seeing even a sliver of a possibility for your redemption gives me a reason to go on living…”

    Why do I think your glimmers of my sanity reg had to do with my ragging on Bush’s boys, Greenspan and Wall St, as well seeing the need for more revenue (your favorite by far) to go with certifiable spending cuts to dig us out of the total fucking financial mess both party’s self-serving and selfish politicians have put us in.

    The differences between us is I see and understand the sense and sins, the pros and cons, of both sides, both ideologies. I refuse to let my bias, my preference enslave me, blind me, reduce me to nothing more than a fucking parrot.

    Your lucky fucking day will be when you begin to set yourself free, the day you start forcing apart the jaws of that bear trap lock on your reason (there I go again) and start listening more than parroting.

  324. Jim R Says:

    I prefer my insanity to enslavement.

  325. reg Says:

    I guess when Roper lived in Germany he missed the part where the system of universal insurance and private delivery of health services – which dates back to that “socialist” Bismarck – is as effective as any in the industrialized world, but costs half of ours per capita. There is literally no comparison in terms of cost-effectiveness WITH broad availablilty of coverage, resulting in far less of the German GDP eaten by health care inflation and profiteering – all with health outcomes, even given the sausage diet, ranked well above the US.

    That Roper drops the word “Germany” with no accounting for anything connected to evidence from the real world and a straw-man cliche thrown in for good measure is typical and telling. I recall him criticizing the Affordable Care Act as “one size fits all” – which isn’t even close to being a valid characterization, since it keeps a variety of existing “systems” while mostly just making sure that they do in fact include “all” – i.e folks with existing conditions, folks who want to start a small business or change jobs, and folks who need some subsidization to afford a policy withing the private insurance exchanges. But the casual cliche is supposed to “mean something” – unhinged from any relevance to what is actually being discussed. Characters like Roper and Jim R – aside from the periodic descent into sheer ugliness of death wishes or psycho cartoons – are running on empty…

    That said, given the evidence of Western Europe’s health insurance systems versus ours (average costs of about half per person, which makes theirs sustainable and ours not, no matter who is footing the bill) I guess one of the problems of capitalism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.

  326. AC Says:

    GM, sorry but your points are so full of right wing marketing fodder and based on such loony logic they are impossible to counter.

    your point of view is based not on facts or empirical evidence but on emotion and ideology…so matter what facts are brought before you there will be no intelligent discussion.

    and your sad little prejudices show everywhere in how you frame your ‘arguments’. your comment agbout an er full of illegal immigrants emptying out was particularly vile and showed how little you know about this country’s economic policies and business policies that are directly responsible for the fact that ER was full of ‘illegal’ immigrants.

    that is what is sad about guys like you, GM. you have no humanity. you are the epitome of the republican personality. always find a scapegoat. always look to blame the victim rather than the perp.

    I suggest you do a little heavy lifting about the history of Mexico and US interests in it.

    just for starters. then maybe you will have a leg to stand on when entering into a discussion about ‘entitlement’ programs.

    might change your mind about just who is actually entitled to what and who thinks they have been entitled…

  327. AC Says:

    and then take a course in math.

    you tell me how we should all pay health insurance premiums to a for profit entity becomes more sustainable rather than making payments directly into a health insurance pool where billions in profits are not needing to be extracted.

    you know what…you can’t frame that argument except through the illogic of your ideological prejudices.

  328. GMRoper Says:

    I’m waiting for you to answer my questions AC…

    reg… so, why is Germany rethinking it’s socialistic healthcare program? did they run out of other peoples money? From Der Spiegel:

    “The expected deficit of €11 billion in 2011 will be cancelled out,” Rösler told reporters on Tuesday. He said he was optimistic that the new contribution regime would result in lasting stability for Germany’s health care finances, but added that the system for how contributions are made must still be reformed.

    Rising costs have dogged Germany’s health care system for years, and multi-billion euro deficits have become the norm. As recently as 2006, Merkel — then in coalition with the center-left Social Democrats — proudly announced what she called “far reaching reform.” (it didn’t) [emphasis added]
    [...]
    Then, as now, however, the reform was a far cry from what was originally promised.
    [...]

  329. reg Says:

    Explain the reforms, answer the issue of how their system spends half of what ours does and I MIGHT consider engaging you beyond your profound superficiality.

    You’ve countered exactly nothing in the evidence I presented – only offered a tactical diversion that I doubt you even comprehend. That a system that has roots in the 19th century might be subject to re-balancing over time, or that health care inflation – which is in fact the root of most of our long-term deficit problems and which the idiots like Paul Ryan do exactly ZERO to address, only shift costs to old people on fixed incomes, which is not a serious alternative – also requires some tweaks to the system.

    Sorry man, but the evidence of Western Europe and Canada’s superior, and hugely more cost-effective insurance systems is overwhelming. It’s really not something that’s debatable, except in the minds of ideologues or the willfully ill-informed.

  330. reg Says:

    Also your inference that German health care is “socialist” – it isn’t – or that they are “rethinking” the system in a structural sense as opposed to adjusting revenue sources for inflation is absurd.

    You either don’t know what you’re talking about or you don’t care about presenting anything contextually or factually, only in accordance with your half-baked biases.

  331. reg Says:

    Here are two facts for you to consider as you ponder the “rethinking” of “socialist” health care in Germany:

    The U.S. spends 16% of gross domestic product on health care, Germany 10.7%.

    The rate of increase in its costs is less than half our rate of increase over the last 15 years, even though their population is statistically older than ours.

    I know stuff like this is difficult for you – data based on actual evidence rather than FOX News nostrums – but it’s clear that the Germans are in much better shape over the long term in sustaining their (actually semi-private but regulated) insurance system and their private network of providers.

    I’m out of this, however, because I have real work to do and you’ve proven over the years – and again with this weak tea – that you’re not worth my time. If anything -give your record of sliming, lying and misdirection – I’ve treated you far more politely than you deserve. Same goes for “Death Wish” Jim.

    You guys are on your own – enjoy swimming in the murky pool of half-truths and comforting narcissistic nostrums.

  332. Ahmed Says:

    GM Roper swims in the pool of murky bigotry, his unchallenged ideas never warranting doubt, he trumpets darkness as light. His latest blog post features a lengthy meandering write up from one of Ropers English comrades , delving into leadership debates hampering the white nationalist, immigrant bashing English Defence League-called “terrible people” and racist by that caliphate inspired raging leftist British Prime Minister David Cameron-a group Roper sees as admireable, at least in its original form. Roper’s a chump who likes groups that physically terrorise immigrant communities. I’m not debating suckers.

  333. reg Says:

    Ahmed – don’t you understand who is cluttering up our ERs? It’s a national disgrace and stifling further reduction of tax rates.

    Something must be done about the scourge…as a fellow white man you surely understand.

  334. Ahmed Says:

    You’re quite funny at times.

  335. AC Says:

    Hi Ahmed, thank you for reminding me that our resident victim of the brown scourge of humanity has a website touting white-ism.

    another wanker to sideline alongside the vile dripping white corner wack off.

    And…I did think of you on reading about the astonishing Vittorio.
    @##$%%^^&&*

  336. pablo Says:

    Something must be done about the scourge…as a fellow white man you surely understand.
    —————-
    Since race has crept in…invariably, it had to, as racism is implicit in the social contract; the Pax Romana between the American landowner and the landless.. supplying the raison d’etre for voting against class interest by creating solidarity based on fear of the other, the non-white.. and, it still works!

    A late friend of mine, a true one-of, made this ditty some years back at home in Quebec:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I0l9ZJGYuU

    So ‘old school’, I was shocked to see some of Pierre’s work preserved on the YouTube. Just last night Shiu and I watched some of the interviews which brought back tears.

  337. Ahmed Says:

    Before I get accused of bullying Roper-I’m guessing that he now bolts- away from this site by way of hyperbolic accusations, do one thing, if you must- visit his site. It’s the most recent link. His flirtation with quasi fascist European white nationalist is creepy and sad. Really.

  338. GMRoper Says:

    reg “You’ve countered exactly nothing in the evidence I presented”

    You offered evidence of superior fiscal performance in GERMANY…

    BS… did I miss it, which comment above reg?

  339. GMRoper Says:

    Read the article Ahmed… you lie, flat out lie. Lion Heart calls the EDL leadership a bunch of crooks and neither he, nor I do anything to support that group.

    Ahmed, would it be ok to say you are a chump who enjoys terrorizing white folk? No, I didn’t think so… listen you bastard, and while you are at it reg you too, am not a racist, I worked my ass off in my younger days for civil rights, I proudly stood at the lincoln memorial with Dr. King in 1963, I marched numerous times in DC so you can all kiss my ass.

    Fuck all of you…

    Roper out.

  340. GMRoper Says:

    Ahmed, you are a real asshole. I am no more of a white nationalist than you are an Islamic terrorist.

    You are all a bunch of dishonest idiots with no more honesty about you than the man in the moon (which despite reg’s drunken foul mouthed diatribes does not exist).

    Ahmed, if you think I’m out of here, you really don’t know me jerk. I’ll leave when I damn well decide to. And you can kiss your own ass.

  341. AC Says:

    is GM White Corner Boy?

    you didnt happen to get shot or thrown off your bike or some such thing by a black guy did you? and then so traumatized your whole sensibility is now wrapped around rationalizing the superiority of whites and demonizing darkies. I remember WCB going on about how assiduously he had once worked for civil rights…

    if not, you are still a sad little fucker. tuned into a bout 60 seconds of your podcast with hate monger Fausta– suppose the pun not intended on her name.

  342. reg Says:

    Roper – you are not coherent. I don’t know what to say – but first and foremost, I don’t give a shit that you’re analytically, intellectually and – dare I say it? – morally incompetent.

    If you really do have an IQ of 140 as you’ve boasted, it’s been wasted on a lazy, blindered, absurdly partisan fuck.

  343. reg Says:

    Comment 10:18 has the goods on Germany’s health care remarkably superior stats compared to ours.

    Frankly, if you don’t already know this, you’re dumb as…uh…a hidebound GOP partisan with his head stuck up his ass.

    I’m not in charge of your education. Grow up and grow a pair. This shit coming from your “corner” is laughable – especially from an alleged “health care professional.” God help those who come to you for help.

  344. reg Says:

    “I worked my ass off in my younger days for civil rights”

    Not an excuse for showing little other than the ass you pull your crank opinions from at this late date.

    Pathetic.

  345. reg Says:

    For the conservatarded:

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/146992-comparing-u-s-healthcare-spending-with-other-oecd-countries

  346. reg Says:

    Jesus – I just tried to read that screed about the “demise” of the English Defense League from their glory days.

    Your are truly one crazy little bastard, GM. Psycho shit. Enjoy the mudbath.

  347. reg Says:

    I’m a total fucking idiot for even attempting to engage this crud merchant in “rational” discourse. I apologize to everyone here who has their head even minimally screwed on.

  348. reg Says:

    Even Sergio…

  349. Ahmed Says:

    “I proudly stood at the lincoln memorial with Dr. King in 1963.

    Even more depressing that in 2011 you stand with Pam Geller and the EDL-in mandate, Roper-you bicker only with their current leadership regime. You’re a sad man. Go off with your fellow English “patriot” the absurdly named “Lionheart”-LOTG sounded more legit. You’re obviously too busy defending civilisation from beastly hordes to comment much here anyway. Peace.

  350. Sergio Says:

    Decay.

  351. Jim R Says:

    Too many old people with nothing else to do between bus rides to the casinos……or ER for a hang-nail.

    Ahmed, wouldn’t your time be better spent help keep your relatives (guessing) newly won freedom out of the hands of the Brotherhood.

  352. Jim R Says:

    ……or Hamas. Oops, too late.

  353. Jim R Says:

    “Since race has crept in…invariably…”

    And who ‘creeps’ it in invariably Pablo? You have seen the racist and it is you.

  354. AC Says:

    @ Jim r

    your comment to Ahmed is, in my view, absolutely grounds for your being kicked to kingdom come…and if not “there”– off this blog or any other.

    along with De Crazy who seems to have left since a couple of us accused him of being Woody.

    you obviously love negative attention–which seems to be the hallmark of right wing trolls. so glory in this:

    a Sartrian eternity in Mecca during the Hajj. For some like Brother Malcom, it resulted in an epiphany of….brotherhood. For you it will be an endless terror that you might have an epiphany.

  355. Ahmed Says:

    “Ahmed, wouldn’t your time be better spent help keep your relatives (guessing) newly won freedom out of the hands of the Brotherhood.”

    I suppose for you people who live outside your borders make up a homogeneous blend-undifferentiated mass of brown skinned people with funny names, all related and probably sharing similar agendas. Point of fact: I don’t have any relatives, in the blood familial sense, in Egypt. I’d love it if I did-Cairo’s quite the city (I went there for a visit years ago en route to Joburg)- but don’t. Could you try to read my content instead of stopping at “Ahmed” the name?

  356. Ahmed Says:

    On the other hand I have tons of friends and relatives in London, England- quasi fascist thugs like the EDL mean them harm.

  357. Ahmed Says:

    ps Did anyone else catch the lively exchange between Cornel West and Sharpton over Obama? Perhaps brother reg will find this of interest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m5bmVgxGc0

  358. GMRoper Says:

    Tons of quasi fascist thugs like the Muslim Brotherhood mean harm to many English peoples, American peoples, Jewish Peoples.

    Get off your high horse Ahmed, you don’t own the patent on absurdity, though you seem to think you do.

  359. AC Says:

    Roper, you are nothing but a nazi thug. since you claim to be under 62 or 65 it means despite your being born in Germany– it was after the war though we don’t know if thats because your father was in the service–your mother perhaps German–or your parents are German and managed to become IMMIGRANTS taken into the bosom of Amerika. It does mean you were born in the immediate aftermath of the war IN Germany if you have not screwed with the statements you made.

    however your relation with Germany has come about– whether simply by a brief stay in a hospital as an infant–you still have the personality of one who had they been of age in Germany in the 30′s would have not been able to put on a brown shirt fast enough.

    you are EXACTLY the type. and every excretion onto the cyber page documents that fact.

    i have no patience with proto fascists. and that is what you are.

  360. AC Says:

    PS. Your friend Herr Ober’s revolting screed is pure nazi drivel.

  361. reg Says:

    Ahmed – Ta Nehisi Coates had that Bro-brouhaha posted. Very enjoyable.

    But what was MSNBC thinking putting Ed Schultz – who is a good guy and probably has more black folk on his show than anyone else in cable – in charge of “The Black Agenda?” That was like an admission of total fail. But come to think of it, actually MSNBC has some cute young woman on for several hours in the afternoon who should have been given the nod for this hosting job. They could have done the role reversal and Ed could have been her sidekick, if they were intent on his participation for whatever reason. (I do have to say, I’d prefer Ed Schultz to Tavis Smiley and his oversized Ego – which is saying a lot in the self-love-ridden world of Teevee hosts.)

  362. Godwin's law proved again Says:

    “Roper, you are nothing but a nazi thug”

    Bingo on comment #358.

  363. reg Says:

    For all of the (probably largely deserved) flak the journalist profession takes, it’s worth remembering that while a lot of guys (and gals) sit on their asses in studios, on cellphones and at keyboards offering two-bit speculation, “conventional wisdom” and recycled “insiderisms”, there are some truly courageous heroes out there risking everything to bring us some perspective from the frontlines:

    http://witnessla.com/war/2011/admin/heartbreak-restrepo-director-tim-hetherington-killed-covering-libya/

  364. reg Says:

    I’ve decided that for what’s left of Lent I’m going to give up telling either GMRoper or JimR to go fuck themselves.

    The bad news for JimR is that I made it back from Reno with that busload of old ladies without either choking on the free peanuts or a fatal encounter with a semi-truck.

    Better luck next time I go “gambling” at the free buffet tables.

  365. qdpsteve Says:

    Funny Reg would mention gambling, especially given “Black Friday” last week.

    For Marc and everyone else here who loves–or used to love– their online poker, thought you’d find this (from, admittedly, a Vegas poker player who’s also pretty much a hard-line libertarian) worth reading.

    http://pokergrump.blogspot.com/2011/04/notes-on-crisis-part-3.html

  366. Dan O Says:

    Probably no point in jumping into this tediously long thread, and with all due respect to reg and Ahmed who find Roper to be a constant annoyance, which I sometimes do as well, I feel like Anna needs a good slapping on the Nazi comment about Roper.

    Yeah Roper can be a super hyperbolic windbag sometimes, but he can also be thoughtful, and if you take the time to engage him with questions like it’s a real conversation he’ll usually give you the courtesy of a real answer.

    Even reg mentions his moments of grace which I’ve witnessed here numerous times. He’s not Woody who is 100% troll.

    I think he’s exactly the kind of person who *would not* join in with any nazi or fascist thugs. Anna’s hyperbole never fails to flood over the edges, so it’s no surprise she says stupid and thoughtless things.

    Roper can deservedly have loads of criticisms leveled at him (and the EDL are a putrid bunch of people), but joining the ranks of the autocrats is, I think, not among them, and he doesn’t deserve to get punched around for that.

    For what it’s worth, that’s what I think.

    I know Anna, I’m a liberal pussy who doesn’t get Jung, thinks atavistic thoughts, and wouldn’t recognize irony if it was shoved up my ass. Save your breath.

  367. Ahmed Says:

    When someone openly praises and celebrates deranged folks like Pam Geller-a nut-case out for money paranoid shrill appealing to white identity nativism -who publishes exposes “proving” that Obama is the lovechild of Malcolm X, then that person should be called out. When a poster-from afar-compliments the mandate of hooligan immigrant bashers of the quasi fascist variety, the EDL, then, I’m sorry, but again, criticism is warranted. My attacks only expose Ropers open positions, his attraction to a dangerous and paranoid form of identity politics, predicated on dehumanising others. Sure, at times he is thoughtful and kind. People are complicated that way-think Obama’s grandmother :)

  368. AC Says:

    Yes, Dan, you are all of those things and also predictable and have absolutely no clue as to what makes people tick. many nazis were kind and thoughtful to their dogs and children and even their neighbors as are all thugs. are you really that foolish and naive and ideological about ME that you can’t see what is right in front of your face…like read his fucking blog, Dan. you are being obtuse and just, frankly, an asshole with those comments. you prefer to defend the indefensible than to admit you are wrong or to concede i may have a point.

    READ HIS BLOG, DAN. before you make a fool of yourself with your completely surreal inability to judge character.

    you need to hear jackboots and see bodies before you get it?

    do you know what a fascist is, Dan?

    its people like you that let shit happen, buddy. think about it.

  369. AC Says:

    reg has been piling on the ad hominems or hominy grits or whatever you call them but i call the guy out for being what he IS…a raving fascist and you think reg is being polite. he’s been telling GM to fuck off for days now.

    you are really a head case, dan.

  370. AC Says:

    and he doesnt deserve to get punched around….

    Dan, truly, you are an asshole of monumental proportions.

    READ WHAT THE MAN WRITES AND WHO HE INVITES TO CONTRIBUTE TO HIS LITTLE GOEBBELS MACHINE.

    hyperbole cant match the sick garbage he posts and the pathological ideas and fixations he has.

  371. AC Says:

    there is something people like dan and many of you dont get:

    the Tea Party has made being a fascist legitimate. These types can come out of the wood work and underneath the rocks they once had to inhabit. these types are always with us and in normal times taboos keep them under wraps…but then the zeitgeist conspires to let them out of their lairs. we are in such a time now as when Hitler became the lightning rod for the undercurrents of madness in Germany.

    Obama’s election caused the seething racism that was smoldering for years under legislation and a very different zeitgeist to erupt along with the native reactionary sensibility that is a constant here.

    dig it Dan O.

  372. reg Says:

    Honestly, “qdp” I would be embarrassed to use “Black Friday” in reference to the market over this past week. You guys are truly desperate little men if what we get here are your best shots. The pettiness and analytical dysfunction is hilarious – also, if you look at the polling on the “serious” GOP budget proposal, America hates you clowns. Even the Tea Party types reject Ryan’s actual agenda. Must feel like shit to be a “conservative” these days. You’ve got nuthin. Even after a big midterm win, the know-nothingism, ideological overreach and descent into sheer crazy comes back to bite “conservatives” in the ass. After all of the triumphalism, your boys blew it in just a few short months. The GOP is so full of shit that Donald Trump is picking up the pieces. Keep us laughing…

  373. Jim R Says:

    Speaking of the Donald, please don’t leave us Anna. The entertainment factor here would be just irreplaceable.

    But could I ask one small favor. Please try to get more creative regarding the over use of ‘asshole’. Mix it up a bit with, say; dick, prick, jerk, mf, heartless, conservative, republican, rich, white…..the possibilities are just endless.

    I do recognize you try here and there with a nice garnishment of ‘racist’ or ‘fascist’ prefix. It helps.

    Btw, who was it that finally did in Brother Malcolm, after he began to moderate and pull away from the Brotherhood? Which brings up the broader question, is Islam inherently violent? Just asking…..

  374. Jim R Says:

    …..one thing we can all agree on, we know they hate jews, especially the successful white ones……and much much more if they have to live next door to them.

  375. Randy Paul Says:

    Anna’s hyperbole never fails to flood over the edges, so it’s no surprise she says stupid and thoughtless things.

    Res ipsa loquitur.

  376. Hester Says:

    Paul Ryan booed at his own town hall
    The Republican legislator’s own constituents send him a very simple message: Tax the rich!

    http://www.salon.com/news/paul_ryan_rwis/index.html?story=/tech/htww/2011/04/21/paul_ryan_booed_at_his_own_town_hall

  377. AC Says:

    jim, i see you and GM both got your degrees at the Goebbels Institute of Propaganda

    Randy and Dan think i exaggerate …and as i supposedly exaggerate you and GM reveal the true nature of your ideological bent more and more.

    Ya basta to you Randy.

  378. reg Says:

    That town hall meeting of Ryan’s was hilarious. According to current polling even the Tea Partiers – no strangers to incoherence Charlie Sheen levels of self-delusion – reject Ryan’s kill Medicare “plan.” The 2010 mid-term triumphalism of the GOP is in a shambles, as extremist ideology clashes with political reality. Obama is going to eat these guys alive. I think – the “Larry Summers” problem aside, which is mostly where the White House lost me in terms of policy – there have been some massive messaging failures over the last two years, but watching the GOP set itself up for the country to hate their guts and consider them nothing but clowns revives the (unlikely) notion that when Obama is cool and we want him to come out fightiing, he’s playing some weird 3-dimensional chess with his opposition. What’s really happening is simply that the GOP has lost any pretense of being serious about anything other than exploiting “little people’s” resentments while they do the work of the economic elite. But they seem to have lost their touch and are engaged in a stupendous over-reach. Which, of course, means a lot of them can get those Beltway lobbyist jobs they crave sooner rather than later.

    Here’s just one example of how blatantly full of shit these assclowns happen to be:

    http://www.capitalgainsandgames.com/blog/stan-collender/2222/ryan-republican-plan-requires-debt-ceiling-be-raised-6-trillion

  379. qdpsteve Says:

    reg– what the hell are you talking about? I linked to a post about the recent crackdown against online poker by the DOJ, not to just another piece on the economy. Also, the libertarian leanings are all Rakewell’s (the name of the guy writing at my link).

  380. qdpsteve Says:

    Here’s a clip of what I linked to re the DOJ crackdown on online gaming sites last Friday (a la “Black Friday”):

    “If you read this blog, you probably share my outrage that people like Jon Kyl and Bob Goodlatte can so flippantly decide that they think online gaming is, in some sense, “bad,” and therefore write and pass laws that ban or greatly restrict it, and go home feeling that they have done good work and made the country a better place to live. But if you at the same time applaud the passage of laws that prevent others from marrying who they choose or ingesting whatever substances they most enjoy, you’re a hypocrite. More pragmatically, you’re locked in a perpetual battle that you cannot ultimately win, like the oppositely-tinted black-and-white guys at each other’s throats at the end of “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield.”

    Let me put this bluntly, and in a way that I know in advance will raise hackles: If you voted for either Obama or McCain in the last presidential election, or for either Bush or Kerry before that, you’re now getting what you deserve, and, moreover, what you asked for.

    Oh sure, you didn’t specifically want them to ban online poker. But you had to know that all of the major-party candidates were, at heart, statists–men who believe that the government should have ever-increasing power and control over the lives of its citizens. Maybe you voted for Obama because you thought he would sign into law tougher environmental restrictions or erect protectionist tariffs, or for McCain because you thought he would crack down on immigration or continue a ban on gays in the military. It doesn’t really matter what the details were–you were voting for somebody on the basis that he would use force to prevent other people from doing what they wanted to do. You had to just cross your fingers and meekly hope that the people you elected wouldn’t do anything to keep you from your favored activities.

    Sorry, but you miscalculated. You put into office people because you supported their banning of A, B, and C, and you end up shocked–SHOCKED–that they also banned D, which you think is among your God-given rights. Well, as Fox Mulder once asked in “The X-Files,” “Did you really think you could call up the Devil and ask him to behave?” Statists are statists. They not only think they have the moral authority to enact restrictions on various freedoms, they deep-down think it is their duty, their mandate from the people to do so.”

    Last time I checked, Kyl and Goodlatte were Republicans. Anyway, if that sounds like a neocon screed to you, Reg, Charlie Sheen wants some of whatever you’re smoking.

  381. reg Says:

    I’m sorry qdp – I don’t know a damned thing about gaming and don’t really care. I thought you were referring to that other roulettee table – the stock market – in context of a small and short downturn on Friday in reaction to S&P’s arm-waving about deficits.

    My mind was totally on the track of the other “conversation” that JimR had been driving. My comment about Reno was totally a stupid joke, tweaking JimR for his Death Wish.

    Again, sorry I dragged you into something that was totally off target in response to your gaming comment.

  382. pablo Says:

    Note Godwin’s Law invoked at 2:14pm in response to the comparison to “nazis”made at 1:38 pm.

    This comparison itself is being made to Ahmed’s refernce to an entry on the GM Roper blog concerning a reported member of the EDL now wishing to distance himself from some the er, excesses of his white supremacist organizational leadership (run now by irish instead of english) who are reportedly corrupt and thus giving islamophobia a bad name.

    Where Dan@ 8:46 PM goes awry is that neither the recalcitrant EDL member given twenty paragraphs in GM Roper’s blog nor GM Roper himself repudiate the EDL as a hate group engaged in racist vigilantism.

    Indeed it chimerical for GM Roper to play snark here by trying to distance his own propinquity with the aims of the EDL when he penned in his intro to the piece published on
    his blog:

    “The following is from an English Patriot by the name of Lionheart. He graciously sent me his article and with his permission I re-post it here. Read the whole thing – its that important. ”

    So who is the EDL and what are their aims? They are the violent and yobbo wing of the BNP, who are trying to pretend to be “normal” in order to get votes. They are thugs, pure and simple.

    So to assert that GM Roper is not himself sympatico with the EDL or the BNP is also to assert that GM Roper is ignorant. Further, it is a claim that he not be held responsible for the content on his blog. I don’t buy it.
    There comes a point when one’s embrace can be interpreted as a sign of love.

    Without going into detail here, this latest revelation on GM’s Place is yet one more brick in the chain of inference concerning where he is… and the direction of his party.

    Ahmed and Anna should be thanked.

  383. reg Says:

    Also, as Ahmed noted, GMRoper persists in praising “Atlas Shrugs” Pam Geller as an astute and important voice, when she is in fact little more than a racist thug. One doesn’t need to invoke nazism when dealing with bigots like Geller who engage in some of the oldest group scapegoating demagogy in the book – hate-filled garbage that has long history on our own soil, pre-dates Hitler and outlives him. That Roper is a fan-boy of this ugly loudmouth is telling.

  384. jim hitchcock Says:

    The fuck, reg…you didn’t stop in Carson City and say hello?

  385. Ahmed Says:

    “Btw, who was it that finally did in Brother Malcolm, after he began to moderate and pull away from the Brotherhood? Which brings up the broader question, is Islam inherently violent? Just asking…..”

    There’s so much that’s laughably bad about the above statement. Maybe I’ll respond when I’m not in a rush. Let’s just say that you in your rush to false homogenize Islam, you fail to appreciate the ways that identifies are formed around particulars-hence the NOI located its appeal in an American society-mishmashing black nationalism, conservatism, authorataranism, “self reliance”. Brother Malcolm, who embodied his own contradictions, break with Elijah was in my view associated more in the world of politics than the esoteric. Im reading Manning Marable’s book right now. RIP Manning.

  386. Ahmed Says:

    Paranoia and unworldliness makes dumb of men on the contemporary right. Just saying, my people. Peace. It’s a beautiful sunny day. Enjoy ;)

  387. Dan O Says:

    I’d love access to Marc’s blog database for an hour so I could count how many times Anna has called someone here a Nazi, a fascist, an asshole, a fuckhead, a twat (Marc made her stop that), a cunt (he made her stop that too), and what all.

    I also love how she accuses people of things she then turns right around in the same post and does herself.

    Remember that time she was telling “reggie” how he drags down every thread? Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick, that was a good one. I almost couldn’t reattach my jaw. The lack of self-knowledge is just galactic in scope.

    She’s a sledgehammer, an intellectual sloth, an outhouse in a cesspool, she’s a one-trick pony, the world is all lions and hyenas to her.

    I’m so sorry I defended Roper in a mild way. I guess I just get tired of cartoons and insipidness disguising a as intellectual rigor

    It’s just relentless indiscriminate id rage all the time, and I personally hate the idiotic way the words nazi and fascist are thrown about with such disregard for their actual meaning. We’re killing concepts that matter.

    And Pablo, I know about the EDL, and so you think there is some discernible connection to nazis. Ok, fine. That doesn’t cut it for speaking about Anna however, because she throws this insult around about people all the time. You think she’s on to something here, but she says it constantly. Broken clocks and all that.

  388. pablo Says:

    And Pablo, I know about the EDL, and so you think there is some discernible connection to nazis.
    ————-

    I hope you see a connection, too.

    I held back @ 1:59 PM. GM Roper’s gracious english corespondent, Paul Ray aka Lionheart, is a founder of the EDL, is a convicted drug dealer from Luton, and was prosecuted for hate speech in 2009.

    The EDL is the violent yabbo wing of the BNP. Up until recently the BNP itself was banned in Britain. In fact membership itself in the BNP precludes employment in the civil service and police which makes member- a founding member of the EDL, shocktrooper for the BNP, that much more an unsavory character.

    I see little discernible difference between this…:

    http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1329&bih=775&q=edl+rally&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=

    …and the pre-1933 nascent national socialist movement except for the targets of the pogrom.

    Thus the nub of your comments about GM Roper appear in the form of a defense:

    “I think he’s exactly the kind of person who *would not* join in with any nazi or fascist thugs. Anna’s hyperbole never fails to flood over the edges, so it’s no surprise she says stupid and thoughtless things.”

    To the first assertion- GM Roper has joined in… and thus Anna’s observations are prescient and not hyperbolic.

  389. pablo Says:

    By “joined in” I mean this:

    “The following is from an English Patriot by the name of Lionheart. He graciously sent me his article and with his permission I re-post it here. Read the whole thing – its that important. ”

    Then proceeding to give twenty paragraphs to the EDL’s Lionheart.

  390. AC Says:

    Dan O i only throw around the word fascist…when confronted with one.

    you are the indiscriminate one, brother. you lack discrimination, common sense and talk about yer intellectual sloth— you reek of it with your pandering to PC ism and thinking you are a gentleman.

    you are dangerous person with your pretense at civility and smug superiority as if no one really has a dark side despite the blood letting.

    you would have been one of those smug Germans Jewish or not who thought the brown shirts were just a bunch of riff raff and it would all blow over and such a culture as Germany couldn’t possibly entertain such nonsense. well, brother Dan,the world turns on such nonsense and your pollyanna crap about GM and his intentions is inexcusable.

    you still havent acknowledged that you have actually read the vile bilge that comprises his blog.

    and Marc never told me to stop anything.

    people like you are more dangerous than people like Jim and GM

  391. AC Says:

    exercise your critical thinking, Dan…and your imagination. what do you think a bunch of educated professional middle class white men are up to when they bother to create blogs dedicated to fascist drivel?

    you think they just spend hours obsessing over the brown scourge in their basements in front of their computers?

    you need a little history lesson on the KKK. directed by the nice white business class who were behind of lot of what went down and who kept the fires burning.

    wake up Dan.

  392. AC Says:

    by the way, Dan, do you intend to address Pablo’s presentation of the evidence that contravenes your point of view or are you going to pull another Dan/woody/jim/GM stunt and lard on the personal attacks rather than engage in a debate.

    really going to enjoy watching you squirm out of this and finally reveal yourself. lets see you prove your intellectual superiority here…because if we went through your posts you attack me rather than refute and prove wrong the assertions i make.

    bite that, danny.

  393. AC Says:

    not through with you yet, Dan…

    i call GM a fascist based on the empirical evidence splashed across the threads of this blog and most particularly within his own.

    but you just waltz in, jut out your little chin and say ‘uh uhhhhhh’ despite all the evidence to the contrary.

    definitions of neo fascism:

    Neo-fascism usually includes nationalism, anti-immigration policies or, where relevant, nativism, anti-communism, and opposition to the parliamentary system and liberal democracy

    In order for fascism to come to dominate an identity group, it must have a compelling narrative. Whether group identity is based on nationality, ethnicity, religion, class, caste, gender or whatever, there is sure to be a story that glorifies the “tribe” and sets it above all others. Typically, it reaches far back into history and has elements both of exaltation and humiliation, triumph over its adversaries and victimhood. And it will come replete with slogans and symbols, and nowadays, more than likely, bumper stickers.

    To sum up, the linguistic root of the term fascism and its visual representation clearly refer to identification with a particular group of people, originally based on family, clan and tribe, including place and language, evolving eventually into what we would nowadays call nationalism, or internationalism when it is based on a politico-economic ideology like capitalism or communism. As will be discussed further, the essential principle applies to any kind of identity politics that distinguishes between “Us” and a “Them” and asserts “Our” interests as primary. At what point, then, does this basic pattern, which is neither good nor bad in itself, become malevolent and get properly labeled as “fascist”? One could say that it turns ugly when sports fans, for example, start physically assaulting one another rather than just rooting for the home team. At the scale of international relations, when nationalism becomes aggressive and predatory, then we can clearly identify the pattern as fascistic. The simplest manifestation is that of the schoolyard bully, usually consisting of a leader and his loyal followers. Writ large, it supplies the tacit or explicit rationale for all wars.
    ——————————————————-

    i wouldnt think that someone with your intellectual rigor would have to be educated as to what the term fascist or fascism implies.

    i could go on forever finding citations that validate my assertion that GM is a fascist. his own screeds and those of his guest excreters notwithstanding.

    now take this evidence and shove it, Dan. your personal attacks just for the sake of personally attacking someone is tiresome.

    all you do is rag rather than refute with FACTS.

  394. qdpsteve Says:

    …Again, sorry I dragged you into something that was totally off target in response to your gaming comment.

    Sigh. No worries Reg. :-)

  395. Dan O Says:

    QED

  396. Degreed cryptozoologist Says:

    Congratulations, dan o! You’ve found your calling in life, that of human shield protecting shit-for-brains reg from the wild bull of the pompas anna churchill. And just as a wild animal would, she’s shifted from periodic smacks to reg’s empty noggin to coming after you with everything but the kitchen sink. I expect if she can get her hands on one, it’ll be coming your way as well.
    Ever see the show fatal attractions? This is what happens when thoughtful, intelligent people like you, me, GM roper, jim r, and maybe one-two others here try to engage in a rational conversation with someone with the lower than average IQ of reg, or the seething hostility of one who’s had a boatload, and then some, of lifes disappointments like AC.
    You can be sure of one thing, though, that poor stupid reg and his sore head appreciates your sacrifice.

  397. reg Says:

    I love this guy. Proof of everything I’ve ever thought or said about conservatards. For sheer pettiness and inability to offer even a grain of substance beyond a play-by-play on the absurdly inconsequential, he makes even the rest of “his” crew here seem like giants. His worst insult, however, is putting Dan O in the stupefyingly low company of himself, Roper,et al. As undeserved as the nonsensical crapola spit in Dan’s direction from AC (“more dangerous than GMRoper” glad she doesn’t do hyperbole!) – but arguably much creepier because it comes as a disingenuous embrace offered from the gutter.

    I love your comments about me, however. They’re reassuring.

  398. AC Says:

    well lets see…at least i am only considered raging rather than one of average IQ…seems there is hope for me yet.

    so Dan…lets get down to brass tacks. i offered up the much beloved on this blog– what other people say– sample definitions of what fascism is and how it precisely corresponds to what GM writes and admits to. But you are just like Jim/GM and Woody where you refuse to respond when challenged by EVIDENCE.

    Q.E.D to you, shnooky.

  399. Jim R Says:

    Keep it coming Anna. You should have your own road show, Charlie Sheen style. People would pay for it.

    Your last explosion of uncoordinated verbal arm thrashing was pure entertainment. Our very own Snooki.

    Mr. President, Please get the hell off the road running your mouth in front of our innocent children you’re stealing from. We need you at work. On second thought, birds of a feather…….

  400. AC Says:

    and a little taxi zum klo to you Jim.

  401. AC Says:

    ‘Mr. President, Please get the hell off the road running your mouth in front of our innocent children you’re stealing from. We need you at work. On second thought, birds of a feather…….’

    talk about explosion of uncoordinated verbal thrashing…

    Q.E.D.

    isn’t Latin fun?

  402. AC Says:

    the thread has officially become Dada.

  403. AC Says:

    maybe devolved…or perhaps Evolved into Dada.

    an improvement.

  404. Jim R Says:

    Right at a serious time in our history where we need a President to be a President, talking to the nation in a mature an adult way, telling us the truth and preparing us for what is inevitably going to be necessary, we have a selfish demagogue running for another term one year and a half before its necessary election.

    A Billion dollars is too high a price to ask us to pay for your second term Mr. President. It wouldn’t even be necessary if you where actual doing the job dealing with the hard work of a 14 trillion dollar credit card bill in the Oval Office, you help run up. Instead, you’re running the roads denying the problem instead, and charming our children like a shiftless pipe piper, playing speak-no-Evil, hear-no-evil….

    Worse, your trashing their parents ready to speak, hear and see it.

    We’re fucked!

  405. Jim R Says:

    ……Anna and Snooki could do a better job. At least Snooki could be counted on to stay awake.

  406. Sergio Says:

    ceci n’est pas un blog

  407. Sergio Says:

    and Empire Shill Obama enjoys Bradley Manning’s detention.

  408. pablo Says:

    Right at a serious time in our history where we need a President to be a President, talking to the nation in a mature an adult way, telling us the truth and preparing us for what is inevitably going to be necessary, we have a selfish demagogue running for another term one year and a half before its necessary election.
    —————–

    Why are you speaking in coded language?

    I heard “the Donald” on some radio chat-up say that he’d charge the Iraqis 1.5 Trillion, payable in crude oil, as reimbursement for their own “liberation”. Implicit in the precatory nature of his remarks is the lament that the cost of empire exceeds the derived benefit and thus Sir Donald (born in South Africa, no?) merely reflects frustration felt by the far -Right towards an ungrateful world. Crime no longer pays.

    Given the choice, both ruling parties have opted to rescue casino-monopoly capital and to maintain the elaborate defense and security apparatus at the expense of domestic entitlement and infrastructure.
    In that sense alone your corse conclusion is correct. I would add that your ideological brethren along with their soi-disant distant liberal cousins seem to enjoy the shaft-ing.

  409. AC Says:

    ahem…back to the politics of gender:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/22/women-arab-spring

  410. AC Says:

    …where woman have no rights they are in the vangaurd…here, they cede their rightsl…as Natasha has noted.

  411. AC Says:

    following up on

    …’lament that the cost of empire exceeds the derived benefit and thus Sir Donald (born in South Africa, no?) merely reflects frustration felt by the far -Right towards an ungrateful world. Crime no longer pays.

    Given the choice, both ruling parties have opted to rescue casino-monopoly capital and to maintain the elaborate defense and security apparatus at the expense of domestic entitlement and infrastructure.’

    is this article gleaned from a mag in a waiting room:

    http://www.biz941.com/ARTICLES/Past-Issues/2011/April-2011/Outside-In.aspx

    hardly a left wing publication…

    a taster:

    …Brazil is already Florida’s largest foreign trade partner, and the United States—particularly Florida—is the largest beneficiary of Brazilian investments abroad. What’s more, the U.S. dollar is under devaluation pressure, the Brazilian real is on its way up, and this opens a window for recession-pummeled companies to enter a booming market with
    their competitively priced products and services.

    Even so, don’t get your hopes too high about a special U.S.-Brazilian relationship. If the selection of classified cables so far released by WikiLeaks is any indication, security and military interests are overshadowing economic interests in our relations with Brazil—despite a long history of friendly relations.

    Example: Our diplomats are wasting time in high-level interaction with Brazilian officials by bringing up, again and again, the supposed danger emanating from Venezuela and Cuba, scolding Brazil for not doing anything about it, according to several cables.

    It’s time to face facts. Brazil has changed; the country has turned away from our military umbrella and now defines its security interests along the lines of its own economic development, that of its neighbors and other emerging nations. Brazil sports close ties with both Venezuela and Cuba, precisely for that reason. Brazilian officials have repeatedly urged the Obama administration to open direct channels to Venezuela and to end the Cuba embargo, according to WikiLeaks cables.

    Our diplomats also have wasted months hawking Boeing jet fighters to Brazilian officials when they should be implementing policy—not trying to sell U.S. products,’

  412. jim hitchcock Says:

    Could Marc be doing undercover work at The Donald for President campaign?

  413. reg Says:

    I certainly hope so – the Trump candidacy is the cherry on top of the GOP’s bananas split. I am fully in support of The Donald as the face of American conservatardism. Perfect candidacy. To Palin’s chagrin, Trump is the ultimate in the politics of PT Barnum. The only sincere candidate among the cranksters, clowns and abysmal self-promoters of the GOP is Michele Bachmann, which means she’s disqualified. She may be nuts, but I think she actually believes what comes out of her mouth.

  414. reg Says:

    If Marc IS following the Trump candidacy, I am going to give him a leg up in this list of questions investigative journalist Megan McCain asked Donald in her recent interview:

    - “Why do you think you’ve made such an impact already? Why do you think you’re catching on in a way that Mitt Romney and Tim Pawlenty really aren’t?”

    - “If you run for president, will you hire me for your campaign?”

    - “Why do you think this birther thing still has such legs?”

    - “You sent people over to Hawaii to investigate, correct?”

    - “Did you find anything?”

    - “Are you really ready for this?”

    - “Have you hired any advisers yet?”

    - “I want to know, is your family ready?”

    - “Have you ever stayed at a Holiday Inn?”

    This is going to be an awfully high bar for Marc to match, but if he spends some time pondering these McQ’s, he just might be able to acquit himself without embarrassment.

  415. jim hitchcock Says:

    Last line of questioning is perfect!

    Stephanie Miller characterized the possible candidacies of Palin, Romney & The Donald as `I Quit, I’m Mitt. and I’m Full of Shit’.

  416. Degreed cryptozoologist Says:

    Don’t bother holding out much hope for yourself, AC. It would probably be but time wasted. Your personality is driven on by pure, hate-driven instinct, like any other animal in the wild afflicted with, for example, rabies, but only you could explain the cause. To address this affliction, you must look inward, and steel yourself for some pretty ghastly discoveries. For more info on your disorder, look into some writings of Carl Jung, etc. I consider him to be among the pioneers of modern psychiatry.
    So take heart AC. Yours is not a totally lost case like our resident birdbrain reg. You might, after some careful self-evaluation, find out you’ve got something to work with, intellectually speaking. (I admit to not seeing anything so far, but who can say what the future holds?)
    Reg on the other hand, is pretty much shit out of luck as far as improving his brain’s capacity for reasoning goes. Remember, one must have something to work with. There is a vast emptiness up there between his ears. Nobody home, in fact there never was.

  417. Sergio Says:

    Grumpy 60 somethings.

    Jesus, the Baby Boom sucked.

  418. reg Says:

    You can always count on Surge and Degreed to bring the substance. I love these guys. Contemplating where they’re at makes it just a little too easy to feel good about oneself. A cheap thrill, but what the hell…

  419. GMRoper Says:

    Oh my goodness, where do I begin? I get excoriated for posting a picture of Fearless Leader in a Soviet uniform, but someone call me a fascist and/or a Nazi and no one bats an eye? I guess it depends on whose ox is being gored.

    Do I post on occasion unpopular posts on my blog including the one about the EDL? You bet, but obviously no one read the entire post. My point in posting that was that the EDL has been taken over by a bunch of crooks. Is the EDL “racist?” Well, as far as I know they are anti-Muslim and anti-Sharia neither of which happens to be a race. At least that was the original idea.

    Has anyone here equally condemned the protests by Muslims demanding that centuries of English law be dumped in favor of Sharia? No? I didn’t think so.

    As to arguments, why most on the left here don’t care about contravening views as much as they truly enjoy ranting and raving and using foul language to lambaste their political opponents (reg, are you there?). Interesting that it is easier to say, as did AC, answer my question when he won’t answer questions put to him. I have to “state my positions” regarding Medicare and what I believe the role of government is in health care, but AC can’t be bothered to state what his are.

    Too often on this blog, serial posters get to rant and rave with out a smidgen of intellectual rigor and don’t even care to answer any challenges. Some in here say “read my proofs” but what they really mean is that their so called proofs are really just their opinion. Then they lambaste sources from, admittedly, conservative sites but offer nothing in contrast but “liberal” sites. As if this proves anything.

    Dan, thanks for the comment you made. And yes, I intend to be controversial and a pain in the neck on occasion, but only because it riles certain individuals so. Is that trollish? Perhaps, but the resulting blather is so predictable.

    Ahmed, as to Geller, as a strong supporter of Israel of course I support anyone who is anti-Islamist. Geller is vocal about defeating the establishment of a Mosque on (or even near) the site of the worst terrorist attack in American History saving perhaps Pearl Harbor, but at least the Japanese had the cojones to declare war first. In the long run, that attack cost them dearly.

    I don’t doubt and even defend the right of any religious group to establish a center any where they wish, but I also believe establishing a Mosque at the 9/11 site is foolish and provocative. Why do you think the initial “name” was to be the Cordoba Institute? Do you not know the history and reasoning behind the Cordoba Mosque?

    Hoping that somehow there will be a rational, or hell, even a semi-rational response I remain,

    Your’s Truly
    GM

  420. GMRoper Says:

    By the way, I asked Marc if he was OK since he hasn’t posted in a while. He states that he is OK and extremely busy with his teaching duties. I’m glad that is the case and not another heart problem.

  421. Jim R Says:

    “Jesus, the Baby Boom sucked.”

    If they could just stop sucking, a little, we could avoid a financial crisis and save the next generation who actually have to suck their first year to survive.

    We’re finding out the State sow has limited teats to suck on. It’s now every sucker for themselves.

  422. Ahmed Says:

    A sleep inducing clueless kind of banality lies at the core of your “as far as I know” Geller/EDL defenses. I’m not going to bother rebutting someone who neither explains the nature of what they oppose, nor understands the nature of movements they espouse. People, here, can look at information the shrieking neo pogramist Pam Geller. As for the EDL, a shadowy quasi fascist group, you’re backing a group whose membership, made up of soccer hooligans, runs rampage through frightened immigrant communities. Their open call for ethnic purity, the appeals to militant white nationalism, the evocation of genocidal language-all of this is obvious. You wouldn’t have to had marched with King to see it. Whatever man. As a way to elevate the debate I’m posting a good piece by Gary Younge about multiculturalism of fiction versus our complicated real lived experience with ourselves and others.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/14/multiculturalism-fears-fiction-europe-state

  423. Ahmed Says:

    The indomitable Max B, a friend, has spent ample time documenting these movements.

    http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/08/neocon-pogromist-pam-geller-attacks-her-allies-and-supporters/

    http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/03/so-who-are-the-nazis-meet-atlass-thugs/

  424. pablo Says:

    I support anyone who is anti-Islamist.
    —————

    Says it all.

    GM Roper’s fascist friend has been implicated as inciting the Stoke riots where 78 people were carried away to hospital…. in addition to being a convicted drug dealer and being prosecuted for hate speech. The spate of love letters to various american far-right blogs is an attempt by Lionheart to distance himself after the fact from the Stoke Riots.

    So have a look at the EDL here praising Hitler:

    ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-YRwri8S6E

    And here, Paul Ray aka Lionheart, lays it out in his own words:
    tp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTrXt0zNGUc

    So now again in GM Roper’s word heaping praises on the founder of the EDL:

    “The following is from an English Patriot by the name of Lionheart. He graciously sent me his article and with his permission I re-post it here. Read the whole thing – its that important. ”

    It sure is important. Just not in the way intended.

  425. pablo Says:

    sorry the broken links.. here again,

    EDL praising Hitler:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-YRwri8S6E

    Roper’s new best friend, Lionheart:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTrXt0zNGUc

  426. Ahmed Says:

    This, putative Canadian reading friend, is for you. Harper fucked the kids. It’s a keeper.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUh7oElSc28&feature=player_embedded#at=15

  427. reg Says:

    “posters get to rant and rave with out a smidgen of intellectual rigor and don’t even care to answer any challenges”

    That’s you asshole. You haven’t come up with a single piece of evidence to back your nutso claims about Germany’s “socialist” health care. Not a single thing to counter the factual evidence I posted.

    Go to hell with your phony outrage, You’re a total dipshit and obviously none too bright. You’ve never even come close to enaging a discussion here on evidence – only hyperventilation and unhinged assertion that doesn’t even rise to the level of considered opinion. Everyone here has their opinions, but you are one of the worst at backing them up with anything more than your self-regard and ad hominems.

    Kindly go to hell…you’re a total waste of time.

  428. reg Says:

    As to allying with Pam Geller, she’s a bigoted thug and there’s no excuse. None. You’re assertion that you defend the right of religious groups while backing this racist harpy is total bullshit and a face you put on here when you’ve been backed against the wall.

    If you have any brief against Imam Rauf as being somehow implicated in terrorism or sympathy for the 9/11 attackers, bring it on. Otherwise shut your bigoted trap and don’t persecute people on the basis of their faith. Imam Rauf is precisely the kind of influence a modernizing, anti-fundamentalist Islam needs. Your ilk are the problem here – the un-American element, peddling this ultra-nationalist, chauvinistic Gellerite bullshit. Meir Kahane was a strong supporter of Israel, as was Jabotinsky, but both were essentially fascist in their prescription for that put-upon nation, as is Geller.

    And for anyone who is interested, here’s Wikipedia on the Great Mosque of Cordoba and the Caliphate of Cordoba:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Mosque_of_C%C3%B3rdoba

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate_of_C%C3%B3rdoba

    The notion that there was something sinister here is absurd. What was sinister was the Gellerite hysterics which were a stain on our own democratic discourse and even minimal notions of religious freedom.

    Roper is comfortable with hatemongers. It’s really that simple, despite his “Do you know…???” without offering a scintilla of evidence for his insinuations. That, of course, is invariably his best shot here. Rancid character, steeped in little other than a preening narcissism that is predicated on next-to-nothing.

  429. reg Says:

    Incidentally, if using a reference to an Islamic entity established on the European continent during the “Middle Ages” – a social system that actually was very successful and relatively tolerant of other religions compared, say, to the Catholic Inquisition period which came after – than it is scary and offensive to erect a “Roman Catholic” church in a city like NY with a large Jewish population, because of the overt murder and oppression of Jews – unlike anything that ever happened in Cordoba (a tax on non-muslims) – that was conducted by titular “Christians” after Cordoba fell. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition ) But, of course, that would be an unhinged and very ugly assertion.

    This is such incompetent and concocted insinuation, disconnected from anything offensive that Imam Rauf and the muslims associated with the lower Manhattan mosque have themselves done, it’s obscene. If some crap merchant came to my door pushing this bigoted crap against a faith group, I’d chase them down the street. I hate racists and bigots. And Roper clearly is one, based on his blog and his disingenuous insinuations offered as “defense” here.

  430. reg Says:

    Jim R – you prove once again you really don’t know the first thing about the nature, origins or major future problem areas of the deficit issue. You’re totally illiterate and aggressively ignorant on this one. The only reason you keep recycling your one-note whining is because you refuse to actually grapple with the issue beyond lazy nostrums and bar-room bitching. Pretty sad.

    But educating fools is not my job…

  431. Randy Paul Says:

    Geller is vocal about defeating the establishment of a Mosque on (or even near) the site of the worst terrorist attack in American History saving perhaps Pearl Harbor, but at least the Japanese had the cojones to declare war first.

    In a building owned by an American citizen who happens to be Muslim. Which, I hasten to add is already being used by Muslims every day for prayer.

    Apparently the right only believes in private property rights when it’s their property.

    You and Ms. Geller have zero say in this. The community board has approved it. The building was denied landmark status. It’s an eyesore now. It is also a five minute walk from the site.

    All you and Ms. Geller apparently want to do is use it as an excuse to fan the flames of hatred.

  432. Randy Paul Says:

    Reg, you could have merely stopped at this:

    Jim R – you prove once again you really don’t know the first thing

  433. Anna Churchill Says:

    i cannot believe the Geller/Mosque nonsense is back with all the same pointless rebuttals to the twisted ravings of GM or Jim.

    and Dan, if i were you i would be writhing in humiliation at having GM thank you for coming to his defense– in the midst of yet another blatantly psycho pathological post that is such a riotous cliche in his attempt to show himself to be a reasonable fellow– its like a B movie script.

    slink away, Dan. its all you have to do.

  434. Anna Churchill Says:

    rather: its all you have ‘left’ to do.

  435. pablo Says:

    GM ROPER:”…a Mosque on (or even near) the site of the worst terrorist attack in American History saving perhaps Pearl Harbor, but at least the Japanese had the cojones to declare war first..”
    ————————-

    I never knew that the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor was so, so, ….un-sneaky.
    Strange that history can sometimes be so unpredictable.

  436. reg Says:

    Of course, Roper has his head totally up his ass here – Japan didn’t declare war on the US until after the Dec. 7 attack was executed.

    The biggest question here – one that, differences aside, both Pablo and I ought to be asking ourselves – is why the hell are we wasting our time dealing with this puny little man’s narcissistic ravings? Is anyone paying attention to him other than a likely bored family and those of us he attempts to tweak here? Of course, I sometimes play solitaire on my U-Verse feed, which is about as productive. Ridiculous exercise in self amusement, with absolutely no redeeming qualities. Pablo should be enjoying a fine wine and sampling some Proust in French or some such that matches his refined intellectual standards, and I should be listening to the new Paul Simon album while sipping my usual bargain vintage from TJs. It’s all good. But the rational mind is rarely fully in control…

  437. reg Says:

    JimR – you launch ad hominem against Krugman, but suck on this…

    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/23/who-debased-the-dollar/

  438. Ahmed Says:

    “The following is from an English Patriot by the name of Lionheart. He graciously sent me his article and with his permission I re-post it here. Read the whole thing – its that important. ”

    What do you say now, Roper? You’ve linked up-literally, well in internet jargon, you link to these vomit inducing apes-with a disgusting set of characters but it’s not too late. Dig yourself out of the muck. ps Did anyone see this brilliant gem of a film?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8uAtsaPO-E

  439. Ahmed Says:

    ps Not like Roper is interested in anything other then getting drunk on deranged paranoid delusions but for what it’s worth Christopher Hitchens had write-up about Cordoba and its region, Andalusia. Well worth reading especially for Ropes who pompously weaves conspiratorial allegations on this-what should in a sane world-have been a non issue. Sigh.

    Hitch

    “[I]t is no exaggeration to say that what we presumptuously call “Western” culture is owed in large measure to the Andalusian enlightenment….
    The migration of Arabic-speaking intellectuals to the southern Spanish cities of Córdoba and Granada, and the magnetic pull exerted on Jewish scholars, was also to have revolutionary effects on the study of medicine–with early Greek texts again revived through translation–and upon the writing of poetry. Menocal has a wonderful chapter on the love poems of the era and on Ibn Hazm’s The Neck Ring of the Dove, a handbook on romance and a memoir of old Córdoba. We tend to forget that Maimonides, another great figure of this culture, wrote almost all his major works–with the exception of the Mishneh Torah–in Arabic. Nothing could be more remote from the bleak and arid doctrines of the Taliban.
    However, it was not Muslim but Christian intolerance that put an end to Andalusia. By 1492 their Catholic majesties Ferdinand and Isabella had completed the reimposition of orthodoxy and begun the expulsion of the Jews and Moors. It was to the Muslim world that the Jews then looked for safety. This book partly restores to us a world we have lost, a world for which our current monotheistic leaderships do not even feel nostalgia.”

  440. AC Says:

    @Ahmed re little BNP redux film:

    notice the look of the child. shaved head, dark eye rings, pasty, terrific strain.

    Its been written about hundreds times–in UK press–how that flag has become a symbol of the far right/BNP/ or whatever new acronyms they are now going under

    @reg re: Meir Kahane was a strong supporter of Israel, as was Jabotinsky, but both were essentially fascist in their prescription for that put-upon nation, as is Geller.

    i could tell you a true story about when i was in Israel circa ’73 a few months prior to the outbreak of the war…this was when, in Israel, JDL graffitti was treated as a criminal offense!

    of course, now, Kahane’s manifesto is pretty much that of the Likkud.

  441. Hester Says:

    Ahmed:

    I think Hitch tends to forget that the great Maimonides had to flee his beloved Andalusia because of the Almohads. The golden age of Islamic Spain was indeed relatively tolerant, but it all depended on who was in power.

    “The Almohads conquered Córdoba in 1148, and life for the Jews changed considerably. Many were forced to convert or to wear humiliating, identifying clothing.[11] Maimonides’s family, along with most other Jews, chose exile, though Muslim sources maintain the family did undergo forced conversion.[12] For the next ten years they moved about in southern Spain, avoiding the conquering Almohades, but eventually settled in Fes in Morocco, where he studied at the University of Al-Karaouine. During this time, he composed his acclaimed commentary on the Mishnah in the years 1166–1168.[13]”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maimonides

  442. pablo Says:

    This, putative Canadian reading friend, is for you.
    ——————————-

    Ahmed, Bon Merci.

    Le Devoir: l n’est plus ce qu’il était, mais bon…

    http://www.ledevoir.com/international/actualites-internationales/321829/quand-le-prix-des-denrees-nourrit-les-revolutions

  443. reg Says:

    I sort of love it when Roper introduces dark insinuations here, as though he was on to something…

    “socialist Germany”, “Cordoba mosque”…

    These implications of some special “knowledge” on his part always end badly. Fun!

  444. Jim R Says:

    Ahmed is as dismissal of the ‘Muslim’ problem as Geller is making too much of it. He reminds me of reg on the debt problem…….there ain’t one fool!

    Anyone who thinks the large majority of leaders in the Muslim community do not at least sympathize with the behavior of the extremists in their ranks, as evidenced if nothing else by failure to summarily publicly denounce it (sorry CAIR but obscure website statements or carefully released paper statements is not speaking out nor is threatened and actual slapp suits against perceived discrimination to attempt to stop even discussion), are in purposeful or honest denial.

    These, of course, are the same ones who purposefully or honestly fail to see the impropriety, the insensitivity, the natural and normal controversy there would be with a large Multi-million dollar Muslim Center/Mosque near and visible to the center of a major attack on the US by the barbaric extremes in said religion……ESPECIALLY when there has been no organized demonstrations, much less prominent and profuse public denunciations by said religion, clearly separating the religion itself from its extremists.

    In other words, after 15 long years of opportunity, the American Muslim community did little to allay the concerns of their fellow Americans about how far other Muslim grievances with the west, that drove 9/11, had penetrated. In other words, they did little themselves to earn the confidence of the people to not be too upset about a Park 51. In has been quite clear from the beginning, their mouth piece, CAIR, has ‘caired’ much more about aggressively demanding all their legal religious and civil ‘rights’ in a free and open nation of laws than aggressively and openly separating themselves and their religious beliefs from the cazies in their religion that attacked it.

    When it comes to the extremes in political and religious ideologies (very similar btw) the old adage “it take one to know one” definitely does not apply. We are all somewhat near sited, and at the more extremes, totally fucking blind.

  445. Jim R Says:

    …..to the sins within and the perceptions without.

  446. Jim R Says:

    This of course didn’t help things either:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DMhzsUKr2s

  447. AC Says:

    @ jim: “than aggressively and openly separating themselves and their religious beliefs from the cazies in their religion that attacked it.”

    many of us, here, on this blog, jim, have been openly separating ourselves and our religious beliefs from the crazies like you and GM. we were part of the huge heave of conscience that acknowledged the west’s imperialist mission in the middle east for over a hundred years that has probably made a few people pretty cross…

    lets throw you in a ghetto for a few decades and see how you fare. shall we? look at the violence in your projections on to people and no one has even disturbed your little white life. imagine what horrors a guy like you could conceive if you actually were put under duress for any amount of time. your sensibility is already warped– by who knows what…genes; abusive parent; religious zealotry…who knows. but i hate to think what monstrous acts you would conjure should you actually have to struggle for your existence.

  448. Ahmed Says:

    :Ahmed, Bon Merci.”

    De rien, tres bien mon amis, Pablo.

  449. Ahmed Says:

    Jim- I’ll be honest with you. I’m not one of those leftist who are fundamentalist in their absolute belief that something called religion is a vessel for evil of all kinds. Nor do I believe that the secular/religious divide is one that’s exists concretely, outside contexts or history. I detest myopic chest pumping religiosity all stripes, including, yes, in some ways, because of who I am, especially, the brain numbing Islamic dogmatists whose violence and misogyny retards the minds of far too many.

    That said the threat posed to democratic values in the West by the likes of the EDL or Geller (or Christian fundamentalist of any stripe) far greatly exceeds that of said countries domestic muslim communities. America whose muslim population are demographically well integrated and middle class (here I exclude more indigenous forms of Islam practiced by African American nations) are not bent on conquering this country, nor on the verge of imposing Shariah law. They are a tiny minority group, diverse in culture, coming from many nations, and often by now third or forth generation immigrants. It’s not true that there werent statements from American muslim groups denouncing the murderous attacks of 9/11-they’re were plenty. But this raises an interesting question. Why should a Muslim American citizen be compelled to have to take responsibility for some fanatics, mostly Saudi born, who have nothing to do with ones life? More so stat after stat shows that, like many communities, there’s a trend among America’s muslim populations towards secularisation, that these tendencies exist, are often compatible with one identifying, in some cultural sense, with Islam.

    I don’t think highly of Imans of groups such as Cair for the same reasons that I’m no fan of most priests or televangelists. These bodies tend to represent religions at their most rigid and entrenched, tied to power. But the campaigns led by bomb throwers like Geller aren’t about an opposition to extremism, nay they are a continuation of a native tradition rooted in racism and hate. The anti semites of an earlier time or those who viewed Irish immigrants as an alien class would identify with the militant nationalism, the calls for purity, the paranoia, the appeals to violence, that we hear. We have age old bigotry dressed up and packaged in a familiar garb. A nasty movement-mobilizing embittered white folk- that, in its extreme, is prone to thuggish violence, voicing genocidal threats.

  450. Ahmed Says:

    “In other words, after 15 long years of opportunity, the American Muslim community did little to allay the concerns of their fellow Americans about how far other Muslim grievances with the west, that drove 9/11, had penetrated.”

    Bullshit. There are according to census reports 7 million American citizens who identify as muslim. For what it’s worth the stagerring majority probably have zero connection to any of the organisations you’ve named, of which CAIR, who I’m not a fan of in some senses, is absolutely right to pursue civil rights cases. Now afer “15 long years” from this 7 million population, there’s been no demonstrable occurances of terrorism or violence. I’m guessing that in the same time obscure militias or Christian sects of some kind have commitied greater per capita violence than our domestic muslim population. More so, in terms of violence, like many immigrant demographics, American muslims, on a whole, are less likely to have broken the law or went to jail than non Muslims. The threat that you speak of, as represented by American Muslims, is hogwash. It provides masturbatory material for racists and bigots.

  451. Randy Paul Says:

    Many were forced to convert or to wear humiliating, identifying clothing.

    Like what happened to the Jews in the Papal States as late as the 19th Century.

  452. Ahmed Says:

    “The golden age of Islamic Spain was indeed relatively tolerant, but it all depended on who was in power.

    Yup for sure. But that “Islamic rule” (quotes because Islamic civilisation like all civilisations was never pure and in Spain absorbed heterodoxical influences) was at certain historical moments, more open and free to others including non Muslims, than competing Christian empires, is a poke in the eye to goofballs like Roper. But he matters little. Let his endorsement of white nationalist thugs and cartoonish attention seeking fascists prone to bouts of plastic surgery (Geller) speak for itself. GM’s worldview encompasses, at its core, such violent hate of Muslims, that, by now, I’m guessing, our old friend from Atlanta is likely the sensible voice of reason over at Roper’s site.

  453. reg Says:

    ??”He reminds me of reg on the debt problem……”

    Surely you must mean Reagan and the Bushes, who created it.

    Engage me in rational discourse based on the facts or just shut up. You’ve offered nothing here but whining and bullshit, devoid of any substantive information. Take a statement or evidence I’ve offered and counter it with something that’s reasoned rather than recycled.

    Jim, you are childish and narcissistic at best. Like you deserve respect because you’ve got some hormonal reaction, despite having absolutely no comprehension. And after your “death wish” you should be embarrassed even to comment here. I’m the fucking “fool” ? I don’t think so. You’ve literally shown us your ass, but you keep it coming. I have yet to see a single thing you’ve offered that counters any of the evidence-based critiques I’ve offered of the simpering little shit, Paul Ryan and his plan to put oldsters at the mercy of insurance companies, and more government dollars in the pockets of “health care” profiteers rather than care-givers.

    Oh, wait a minute, You want old people to die! So Right On Mr. Ryan! Makes perfect sense.

    Thanks for playing the game.

  454. Hester Says:

    Off topic,… but what exactly is the topic? Anyway, these two posts about Syria from the angryarab blog are alarming:

    http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2011/04/from-syria-with-doubt.html

    http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2011/04/syria-and-aljazeera.html

  455. pablo Says:

    In other words, after 15 long years of opportunity, the American Muslim community did little to allay the concerns of their fellow Americans about how far other Muslim grievances with the west, that drove 9/11, had penetrated. In other words, they did little themselves to earn the confidence of the people to not be too upset about a Park 51.
    ——————

    What kind of horseshit is being foisted here?

  456. pablo Says:

    The biggest question here – one that, differences aside, both Pablo and I ought to be asking ourselves – is why the hell are we wasting our time dealing with this puny little man’s narcissistic ravings?
    ————–

    Agreed.

    Time is much better spent on developing ideas for pushing the gov’t toward a leftward embrace of core values. It seems however that this may be where things begin to break down.
    My belief is that unless lib/progs leverage power that liberal identification will become a simple affectation. And here is where I draw bewildered amusement from the reg-ulars.. the very mention of witheld electoral support brings out the knives. So a strategy of conditional support for Dems where necessary is palatable only when the bulk of progressive effort is spent in developing a serious alternative.

    Two quick personal observations… some months back I alluded to my practice of not allowing Republicans into my homes and drew the predictable responses. Taking the two Rightwing arguments above on the issue of Islam, one might begin to fathom my conclusions about Republicans in general whereby the core value reflected in areas of social entitlement and defense spending is the maintenance of privilege based on class stratification and racism.
    There is always occasion for good wine and these should be rare. It is ones duty to live simply regardless of income and never let reward overtake passion; for a passionate life is much more satisfying than wine. Passion is defined as an obsessive quest for the details in whatever endevour one chooses to occupy oneself; an art borne of discipline.

  457. Jim R Says:

    “Surely you must mean Reagan and the Bushes, who created it.”

    Our debt crisis is not about who’s more at fault now reg, obviously both parties are, it is about doing something about it now.

    “Engage me in rational discourse based on the facts or just shut up.”

    It’s difficult to engage someone who’s head is buried in the reg. Everyone but you, and maybe your mentor Krugman, understand we must do something about it now. So what links could I give that could change your mind? But here is one you can deny:

    http://tinyurl.com/3kkudc8

    “And after your “death wish” you should be embarrassed even to comment here.”

    For someone who so hard on everyone else reg, you seem so sensitive when it comes to yourself. It was only a “death wish” for those who actually believe Republicans want seniors to “die quickly”. To anyone else, it was obviously comedy.

    I’m the fucking “fool”?

    No reg. I didn’t call you a “fool” silly. It’s not my style and counter-productive in an argument. Read it again: “He reminds me of reg on the debt problem…….there ain’t one fool!” It’s clearly what I was saying ‘you’ might call others others raising the debt alarm.

    Stop being so serious and have some fun. Lighten up.

  458. Jim R Says:

    “What kind of horseshit is being foisted here?”

    Thanks for picking up on that Pablo. My “In other words, after 15 long years of opportunity….” should have been “…after 10 long years..”

  459. Jim R Says:

    “It’s difficult to engage someone who’s head is buried in the reg” should be “……whose head is buried in the sand reg.”

  460. Randy Paul Says:

    Thanks for picking up on that Pablo. My “In other words, after 15 long years of opportunity….” should have been “…after 10 long years..”

    I guess the answer is slightly shorter horseshit.

  461. Sergio Says:

    I read AA every day, Hester.

    He is right, the left is doomed.

    The Saudi- US- Israeli alliance sees to that with sectarians of all sorts.

    And Obama belives in Easter.

  462. reg Says:

    Jim R – you’ve offered nothing even remotely serious and obviously have read nothing I’ve written and certainly don’t read Krugman.

    Tell me. Who in Congress has offered a concrete budget plan moving forward that achieves the greatest deficit reduction the soonest and actually “shares sacrifice”?

    Paul Ryan ? Nancy Pelosi ? Ron Paul? Keith Ellison ?

    If you have to look this one up, it doesn’t count. And if you don’t know, I can’t take your “concerns” seriously. It means you are clueless as to which ideological camps have actually driven up deficits, what their rationales have been and who has – in the real world rather than rhetoric – offered paths to deficit reduction.

    Also, why have Republican congressman unanimously voted for a budget that will increase deficits by 6 trillion over the next decade, yet are demagogically refusing to raise the debt limit A MOVE WHICH IS NECESSITATED BY THEIR OWN BUDGET PLAN.

    Yeah, I’ve got my head in “the sand” – which means yours must be 100% up your ass. You have the mind and emotional maturity of a child…

    A total waste of time – but keep the ad hominem coming since you don’t have the capacity to engage on matters of substance and apparently are operating zero actual information.

  463. AC Says:

    UNCLE!!!!!

    for something different: anyone see The Fighter? Total knockout.

    in between the fisticuffs on Dissonance i catch up on movies.

  464. AC Says:

    can end this thread with this:

    http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/04/history-political-lying

    preview of new issue with feature called FACT FREE NATION

    apropos…

  465. Ahmed Says:

    “Thanks for picking up on that Pablo. My “In other words, after 15 long years of opportunity….” should have been “…after 10 long years..”

    Driving by the seat of your pants means just saying shit without having to make an argument. Fact free world for rudderless ideologues attracted to the popular prejudice of the moment. Ah brother Jim.

  466. Jim R Says:

    “Who in Congress has offered a concrete budget plan moving forward that achieves the greatest deficit reduction the soonest and actually “shares sacrifice”?

    The President’s Debt Commission. The fact he choose to ignore them and demagogue Ryan’s Republican plan instead, while offering little himself but a speech and mouthwash, is a testament to his pattern of leadership…..uh, followship, in ALL things so far.

    It’s nice though to see you are coming around reg, albeit slowly and late like our fearful Leader, to the nations ‘problem(s)’. It’s time to grow-up and face-up to the ungodly mess BIG government has made of our country and our credit cards. There is some good news however, home prices continue to rise in Washington DC. \

    If the President is as wise as Clinton, he will follow the Republican House leadership and ride the wave of prosperity, be reelected, and get all the credit for a budget surplus in the end. He will accept Clinton’s 1992 Republican forced mantra “The days of big government are over.” and win the future……while the losers (you know who you are) will stand around with WTF on their faces.

  467. AC Says:

    back to thread and unions under siege from the Right:

    http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/04/state-policy-network-union-bargaining

    The Right-Wing Network War on Workers’ Rights

  468. Jim R Says:

    After my right rant, here’s my left.

    It is the duty, calling, and responsibility of the left to make sure those actually in need continue to get what is actually needed. This means they must compete with the political right and fight against any gutting of needed social programs.

    Our political system must have this competition to protect us from the extremes of both right and left. The right is naturally concerned about the liberal and un-managed expansion of social programs and will tend to go too far reducing them. The left is naturally concerned about the widening gap between rich and poor and tend to resist any cuts or control of social programs.

    In the middle, I hope and expect we will have a compromise, similar to the President’s Debt Commission’s where most increase in needed taxes will come from tax code simplification/modification and most needed cost reductions in social programs will come from aggressive oversite and management of waste and fraud from businesses providing social services and reducing those on social services that ought not be there due to fraud and abuse on application forms, or changes in their financial situation they fail to report after application.

    We MUST address the sins of both the givers and the takers. Many if not most of the sins likely lie with the givers profiting illegally from fraud an abuse servicing those they are paid to service by an out-of-control big government too big to manage anything but their continuous campaign to keep THEIR JOBS.

  469. reg Says:

    Jim R – I’m not “slowly coming around” to anything that you’re offering because it’s empty. You are a master of cliches and nostrums.

    You didn’t answer the question – I asked “who in Congress” – you know, people who actually have responsibility for the budget?
    The correct answer, of course, was Progressive Caucus leader Keith Ellison, who has offered the most fiscally conservative budget of any, assuming of course, that deficit reduction is a primary goal.

    Your touting of the GOP House leadership proves you are a know-nothing subject to the most imbecilic demagogy. The GOP in Congress is threatening not to raise the debt ceiling, despite the fact that Ryan’s own budget requires it. If you’re impressed with that crap, it’s a measure of your ignorance and/or incoherence.

    I think you’re a total fucking idiot and some combination of oblivious and toxic to any rational discourse, but at least give me credit for not wishing you dead.

  470. reg Says:

    How do you get “budget surplus” out of a Ryan plan that increases deficits by $6 trillion over the next decade? Can you fucking read ? Do you feel any responsibility to know what the fuck you’re talking about ?

    You embarrass yourself.

  471. Rob Grocholski Says:

    “Reagan taught us deficits don’t matter.”

    Apparently, the Tea Bagger GOP has learnt that facts don’t matter, either.

  472. Johnny Holmes Says:

    Apparently, the Tea Bagger GOP has learnt that facts don’t matter, either.

    The facts indeed don’t matter.

    That’s why you have the incessant drumbeat of right wing mendacity and spin being propagated 24/7 by Fox and AM radio.

    I’d hazard to guess that a huge majority of those who vote against their own interests and for the interests of the top 0.5% wealthy elites get all their “information” from those two sources.

    For the right wing, facts not only don’t matter they’re dangerous.

  473. pablo Says:

    I enjoyed reading GOP: Fact Free Nation imported by AC (above) from Mother Jones… I don’t suppose that MJ would consider a companion article highlighting the Dems Fact Free Nation as MJ has drifted rightward along with the liberal demographic, the very scalps MJ has promised to their advertisers.

    As a former progressive journal MJ was much more interested in changing social relationships than in political change. Even among thinking liberals there is a growing awareness that core issues are not being addressed by either party. Instead the Party is gleeful that so much energy is spent within the confines of political debate between the center-right and the far-right which requires that social change be checked-in at the door before entering.

    On the issue of economic prosperity the differences between a progressive view and the current political palaver could not be more stark. For America at the height of her now bygone economic prosperity was not the type of society that liberals say that they want. The apogee of middle-class prosperity came at a moment when access to raw materials to fuel industrial engines came from handpicked repressive regimes.

    MJ is not alone in abandoning social transformation in favor of political debate. All of the progressive totems have slid rightward content to comment on the competition between right and far right. The deliverance of even a modicum of economic security, rescued by the Center-Right, is transitory and temporary and is subject to repeal.
    This should have been a lesson to progressives with the election of Obama. The Democratic Party can only employ the rhetoric of social transformation to a constituency it takes for granted and then only when pandering for votes.
    Instead, the Party is much more interested in finding compromise with the far-right with whom it has much more in common in making sure that social transformation is never on the agenda.

  474. Anna Churchill Says:

    and now for something completely different:

    http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2066975,00.html

    thought it might be interesting to read about an Israeli doing something other than terrorizing Palestinians

    the future is here

  475. Kyle Says:

    re: JimR “You are a master of cliches and nostrums.”

    Yes, this. You’re a nice guy, Jim R, and in between your swipes at Anna and reg you sound sincere, but every time I read your comments I get so lost in your slogans and cliches that I have no idea what you’re saying. You’re kind of a parallel world version of Anna, who muddies the discourse with Jung and OT links and all sorts of trinkety baubles of bizarreness.

    It’s okay to use analogies to further an argument, and even make a few generalizations from time to time in order to illustrate a point, but you have to stick to constructing your arguments out of grounded facts/assertions, one at a time, if you want your readers to grasp what you’re saying.

    Anyhoo, carry on…

    /meta comment

  476. Listener Says:

    Thanks, GMRoper. I was just getting ready to ask myself.

  477. Anna Churchill Says:

    kyle aka DanO

    uhhhhhhhh you might want to check into my posts just in this thread as your accusations put on par with a Jim R or Roper. Just where have i made a bizarre assertion about ANYTHING. back up your ‘assertions’ which are sounding like the cliches and bizarrenness you accuse me of.

    in fact, you just show me where any assertion i have made (and when i felt inclined) backed it up with some current talking head’s POV as is the custom here.

    my non sequitors with OT posts were to punctuate the unrelieved tedium of reg’s (who i like– and even admire for his nice grammar, tenacity, good will and character) determination to re educate those who have the misfortune to have a corrupt world view.

    and quite frequently my posted links were relevant and…gasp interesting (italics that)

    anyway, hard to take someone named Kyle seriously after having watched South Park

  478. Ahmed Says:

    After bizarrely dropping by to defend his “comrade”, founder of the EDL, who cartoonishly calls himself Lionheart, and reppin Pam Geller, it looks like GM Roper has (thankfully) left the building.

  479. Kyle Says:

    No, I’m definitely not DanO. For one, I have never taken a single word from GM Roper seriously, and I am heartened to see folks like Ahmed keep up the heat on his dishonest postings.

  480. Jim R Says:

    “You didn’t answer the question – I asked “who in Congress” – you know, people who actually have responsibility for the budget?”

    Congressmen on Debt Commission: Sen. Baucus, Rep Becerra, Rep. Camp, Sen. Coburn, Sen. Conrad, Sen. Crapo, Sen. Durbin, Sen. ,Gregg, Rep. Hensarling, Rep. Ryan, Rep. Schakowsky, Rep. Spratt.

    A quick google would have answered this reg.

    “Your touting of the GOP House leadership proves you are a know-nothing subject to the most imbecilic demagogy.”

    I wasn’t touting the House leader as much as I was touting the control of big, expensive, and grossly inefficient political driven spending. Reducing it with pressure the GOP in 1994 worked to Clinton’s credit….just saying.

    I would point out to you, Democrats have had their way with their idea of ‘prosperity’ in your State for decades, with a brief respite of a GOP Gov here and there always crippled in their effort to control its spending with Public Union’s spending to stop them, and how’s that worked out for you reg? CA’s debt disaster just barely squeezes out the President’s home State of Illinois as another debt disaster spot. Another Democratic controlled state for decades.

    It is a fucking shame these once great and prosperous States have been reduced to panhandling for handouts from a once great and prosperous USA, which itself is no longer in any position to pitch a penny into their tin cup.

    The bottom line of course is you don’t help people or gov’ts in trouble by pitching money into tin cups without more information as to how they got to this point and what would they do with more money if you did pitch in. Do you actual help someone with known undisciplined, reckless, and destructive habits by giving them more?

    Let me answer that. No. Common sense tells you you must demand something it return. You must demand a change in the behaviors and habits that landed them in their predicament to begin with. Printing checks from Washington to unknown and unchecked addresses is what has got it in the predicament it is in now, the same place as the panhandler on the street, and I have the feeling China is not stuck on stupid.

  481. Jim R Says:

    “Printing checks from Washington to unknown and unchecked addresses is what has got it in the predicament it is in now,..”

    This goes for both business and residential addresses by the way. Washington is an equally stupid check printer.

  482. Hester Says:

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/04/27/house_votes_to_limit_bargaining_on_health_care/

    “House lawmakers voted overwhelmingly last night to strip police officers, teachers, and other municipal employees of most of their rights to bargain over health care, saying the change would save millions of dollars for financially strapped cities and towns.”

    “The 111-to-42 vote followed tougher measures to broadly eliminate collective bargaining rights for public employees in Ohio, Wisconsin, and other states. But unlike those efforts, the push in Massachusetts was led by Democrats who have traditionally stood with labor to oppose any reduction in workers’ rights.”

  483. Kyle Says:

    You’ve probably already heard the “news”, but the heads of the right-wing birther lunatics are exploding one by one today: Obama’s birth certificate! GASP!

    You mean he’s not a secret Muslim terrorist out of Africa? How will the GOP pander to the nutcases now, in time for the 2012 election? Quick, think! Trump, can you save them? How about you, Santorum? Anyone?

  484. Johnny Holmes Says:

    The birth certificate is a forgery. Obama is a proven Kenyan Muslim Socialist Terrorist.

    Case Closed.

  485. reg Says:

    Sorry Jim, but the debt commission isn’t legislative or a congressional body in any sense and can’t propose budgets. A quick google would confirm this.

  486. Dan O Says:

    Also, Jim

    Blaming Democrats for CA’s debt problems reveals the usual ignorance you bring to the table. The problem is primarily due to the propositionsystem that allowed a tax-averse public to block taxes of any kind basically.

    Prop 13 is the culprit, not Democrats. It allows increases in spending, but negates the ability to raise taxes by requiring a super-majority.

    Totally unworkable and badly irresponsible. The people don’t want to pay taxes and they don’t want spending cut. That’s why we don’d do direct democracy because it’s unaccountable. You might consider laying the balme for this at the feet of the Republicans who have been demogoguing against taxes and government for thirty years.

    Without all that insane baggage we might actually have a semi-reasonable national discourse on taxes and budget.

    Instead we have people like you who think that government budgets are like family budgets, and who just go batshit when they see government spend money on anything.

  487. Dan O Says:

    Kyle,

    Yeah, sorry, I let the situations dictate whether someone deserve defending or not–not a blanket opinion I’ve formed and cling to.

  488. pablo Says:

    Ahmed:

    Pour M. d’Roper, je l’ai déjà vu en dans les pages À Bâbord! Ah non, peut-être Le Couac(Couac, Couac)… j’espère seulement!

  489. Anna Churchill Says:

    Roper probably busy shining Bernie Ecclestone’s shoes.

  490. Jim R Says:

    “Blaming Democrats for CA’s debt problems reveals the usual ignorance you bring to the table. The problem is primarily due to the proposition system that allowed a tax-averse public to block taxes of any kind basically.”

    I suspect your opinion of ones ignorance is directly proportional to how little they agree with your liberalism Dan. What excuse do you have for Illinois, New Jersey, Michigan,…..I think you can connect dots.

  491. Jim R Says:

    As things are lining up for the GOP in 2012, I don’t think the President is going to have to do to much to win another term. He can just sit back and wait for the Thrumps, Pauls, and Palins to impale the Rommeys, Daniels, and Pawlenteys, before they even get to the general. He can let the fucking nuts on the right do his dirty work for him…..with just an occasional strategically timed press conference to show his birth certificate, school pictures, colleges records, etc.

    Jezzzzus. We’re fucked!

  492. Jim R Says:

    One can only hope Anna, Ahmed, and Pablo find a way to convince Nader, Kucinich, and McKinney to challenge him. I think Nader alone might be enough. Worked for Bush.

  493. Anna Churchill Says:

    why dont you run, Jim. you have enough hot air in you to float a spaceship of alien doctrine. you are always using the blog to write your strange cyber letters to the president of the ether…why not do it for real. according to you the whole country is on your side and we are facing a juggernaught of right think wankers ready to rule the republic and you seem just the man to lead…

  494. Anna Churchill Says:

    i nick name you ‘Shimmy Jimmy’.

  495. Anna Churchill Says:

    …he walks, he talks, he crawls on his belly like a reptile

  496. Dan O Says:

    I suspect your opinion of ones ignorance is directly proportional to how little they agree with your liberalism Dan.

    Oh, on the contrary. I try very hard to be fair. I’ve been fair to you. The conclusions stands.

    You made a claim about California, and like most of the claims you make it has no relation to the actual facts. Those facts contradict your claim.

    OK, so where are we at? Do you concede that your claims about California are wrong? If so, that leaves your claim about Illinois. Is that fair?

  497. jim hitchcock Says:

    Okay, I’ve got it now. Marc is one of the `little people (as in, not royalty)’ invited to the Royal Wedding.

  498. GMRoper Says:

    reg: “Of course, Roper has his head totally up his ass here – Japan didn’t declare war on the US until after the Dec. 7 attack was executed.”

    reg, as usual, you don’t know your ass from a hole in the ground. The declaration of war was already delivered to the Japanese embassy and was to have been delivered 30 minutes before the attack was to have begun, but, as things worked out, difficulty in transcription delayed the giving of the declaration to the Sec of State by the Japanese ambassador.

  499. GMRoper Says:

    Dan, your point about California is well taken. However, wouldn’t you say that having known they couldn’t raise the money (tax increases) to pay for added goodies that they wouldn’t have voted for added goodies; knowing the piper must be paid eventually?

    And neither party is blameless in any of this.

  500. reg Says:

    Widipedia: For decades, conventional wisdom held that Japan attacked without any official warning of a break in relations only because of accidents and bumbling that delayed the delivery of a document to Washington hinting at war. In 1999, however, Takeo Iguchi, a professor of law and international relations at the International Christian University in Tokyo, discovered documents that pointed to a vigorous debate inside the government over how, indeed whether, to notify Washington of Japan’s intention to break off negotiations and start a war, including a December 7 entry in the war diary saying, “our deceptive diplomacy is steadily proceeding toward success.” Of this, Iguchi said, “The diary shows that the army and navy did not want to give any proper declaration of war, or indeed prior notice even of the termination of negotiations … [a]nd they clearly prevailed.”[53]

  501. reg Says:

    I love it when Roper defends the honor of those who launch sneak attacks on the United States. But slimes Imam Rauf for being a Muslim, despite his having worked with the US State Department against Islamist extremists…

    What a sick fuck!

  502. AC Says:

    reg, what he is defending is fascism. Japan was an Axis power.

  503. Frank Says:

    For Roper:

    More from Wiki- “Tokyo transmitted the 5,000-word notification (commonly called the “14-Part Message”) in two blocks to the Japanese Embassy in Washington, but transcribing the message took too long for the Japanese Ambassador to deliver it in time. (In fact, U.S. code breakers had already deciphered and translated most of the message hours before he was scheduled to deliver it.)[50] The final part of the “14-Part Message” is sometimes described as a declaration of war, but in fact it “neither declared war nor severed diplomatic relations”.[51] A declaration of war was printed on the front page of Japan’s newspapers in the evening edition of December 8,[52] but not delivered to the U.S. government until the day after the attack.”

  504. AC Says:

    drat…those pesky facts won’t leave me alone.

  505. reg Says:

    Marc may have become the first auto-blogger.

    In the annals of “Nuff said!” I like this from Johan Hari:

    Trump is every trend in Republican politics over the past 35 years taken to its logical conclusion. He is the Republican id, finally entirely unleashed from all restraint and all reality.

  506. AC Says:

    ‘He is the Republican id, finally entirely unleashed from all restraint and all reality.’

    if only the DNC had the brains to use that in their campaigns.

  507. AC Says:

    Hari on Trump:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-donald-trumps-lunacy-reveals-core-truth-about-the-republicans-2276222.html

    Dem campaign spinners should read this and learn

  508. AC Says:

    c’mon, jim, jump right in on cue and prove Hari’s point.

  509. AC Says:

    OT but this bit of news is horrific…the implications:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/may/01/boers-moving-north-african-governments

  510. Jim R Says:

    This bit of news is horrific…..for bin Laden and company, the Navy Seals cometh. The only question for him; was it more hot in hell on earth knowing your next day might be the coming, or in hell itself.

    It may take a month, a year, a decade, but justice cometh. Don’t tread on us.

  511. Jim R Says:

    “jim, jump right in on cue and prove Hari’s point.”

    You already have Anna.

  512. Frank Says:

    Using your religious context Jim, he could just as easily be with 71 virgins right now. For me, he just sleeps with the fishes. Of course I would like to see some proof of that.

  513. Anna Churchill Says:

    thats right, jim, my comment proves republicans are dumber than a bag of rocks.

    here is interesting list of viewpoints about death of OBL…tweets, quotes from around the world…wikileaks etc:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-death-live

    really fascinating to read the contradictory points of view about it all.
    a real hoot to watch spin…spin.

  514. Johnny Holmes Says:

    This is a great day for America, Obama and especially for the friends and family of those killed on 9/11. I would love to have been in Washington or NY last night to help celebrate this bastard’s long overdue demise.

    It’s not such a great day for Republicans. I haven’t yet tuned into Fox or listened to any right wing radio but I have no doubt that O’Reilly, Rush, et al, are having to choke down their own bile at the thought of this Muslim-Socialist Democrat was able to take out Bin Laden.

    From this moment on, the right wing challenges Obama’s patriotism at their peril.

  515. jim hitchcock Says:

    In other news, Generalissimo Franco is still dead.

    -Chevy Chase, Weekend Update-

  516. Anna Churchill Says:

    a little sang froid to temper Johnny Holmes’ John Wayne world view:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-death-significance

  517. Johnny Holmes Says:

    Anna,

    I’m just going to consider the source, the author of your linked article, and his claim that “friends of his” felt the US “had it coming” on 9/11.

    I wonder how he and the rest of his “friends” would feel had Bin Laden crashed a few passenger jets into Wembley Stadium or Westminster Palace?

    And those Muslims cheering as the death toll mounted? I recall seeing them on TV as the twin towers burned to the ground. I don’t know to what extent they represent the majority of Muslims in the middle east but they can go fuck themselves as well.

    Has killing Bin Laden destroyed Islamo Fascism? Has it solved all the problems in the US and the world? Hardly. But I’m fucking happy the SOB is fucking dead. To quote the author in your link:

    He had it coming.

  518. Hester Says:

    Has anyone been to the Neon Tommy site lately?
    The site is fantastic and the students and Marc should be so proud. Well done!

  519. Hester Says:

    Arab In Israel: Two Stories From Lod

    http://www.neontommy.com/news/2011/04/arab-israel-two-stories-lod

  520. Anna Churchill Says:

    Johnny, a little nuance–as the participants in this thread like to remind one from time to time–goes a long way…do note the ending line of the article:

    “…Bin Laden will not be forgotten. But nor will the fact that, in true John Wayne style, the Americans got him in the end. They said they would, and might not have succeeded. But they did.”

    It helps to be able to complete an article and then have some ability to comprehend the points the commentary is making rather than getting stuck on ONE comment; take it out of context; then hang your gung ho hat on it. that is one of the hallmarks of a true reactionary.

  521. Anna Churchill Says:

    One of the points in the article was to temper exactly the kind of gung ho childish suckled on myth reaction that you exhibit.

  522. Anna Churchill Says:

    and its exactly that sort of childish response that defines the repugnant side of the American character that is so reviled and helped to provoke the violence against the US.

    a villain is dead, but the provocations are not.

  523. Anna Churchill Says:

    another sobering antidote to the sports arena reaction:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02/osamas-legacy-american-drift_n_856365.html

  524. Johnny Holmes Says:

    Anna, I know about the nuance of the article. I know about the dangers of vengeance and I know how and why US militarism has created backlash and blowback.

    In spite of all that, Bin Laden represents the absolute worst of mankind. Or I should say DID represent as he’s now proven to be worthwhile for the first time in his miserable life, as food for fish. And I celebrate his death.

    In your mind that sentiment makes me a reactionary. Thats’s cool. I can play that game too. In my mind your opinions make you an Al Qaeda loving Wahabist.

    So Anna, when are you going to move to one of those countries who’s culture and values you identify so closely with?

    How about Afganistan? You can be the Taliban’s new spokesperson. Just be sure and buy a bee keepers suit before you pack your bags. And don’t talk about your education too much lest you lose your nose or some other appendage.

  525. Master suckerpuncher Says:

    Anna churchill wouldn’t be caught dead in any other country than the good old US of A. Like most socialist wannabe’s (who seem to gather at this sight like a herd of thirsty water buffalo’s) she talks the game, but never leaves the safety of her home to actually participate. Its easy to speak of revolution and actively plotting the communist takeover of this great country when one has the protection of seal team six and the like looking out for you.

  526. Jim R Says:

    “You can be the Taliban’s new spokesperson. Just be sure and buy a bee keepers suit before you pack your bags. And don’t talk about your education too much lest you lose your nose or some other appendage.”

    Ouch! Followed by a sucker puncher.

    Anna calling others ‘reactionary’. Oh the irony.

    I for one love you just the way you are Anna.

  527. Anna Churchill Says:

    Grow up.

    your taking the bait and acting like a dim witted cowboy with your over the top projection onto OBL as the epitome of all things evil is why so many gray bureaucrats (AND corporatists) like Kissinger, Cheney, Rumsfeld and a long list of others whose influence and ideas (and this phenomenon is not relegated to the US alone) are able to be the slaughterers par excellence. This has been going on FOREVER.

    your childish need for ONE villain and boogeyman is exactly the stuff dreams of mass manipulation are made of.

    OBL is a symptom…dig it.

  528. Hester Says:

    Is it too much to ask that nobody speaks officially unless they have the FACTS!!! And they wonder why they have a credibility problem around the world.

    White House modifies Osama bin Laden account

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/54162.html

  529. Johnny Holmes Says:

    Oh I have lots of Boogeymen Anna, you just don’t know it because you’ve made a huge generalization and assumption from my comment. Nothing unusual about that as I’ve enjoyed your performances here for many months.

    Now I’m curious, were you just a bit sad when you heard Bin Laden had been killed? Mixed emotions?

  530. AC Says:

    Actually, Johnny, I thought he was dead years ago. so my only emotion was surprise…and alarm at the trumped up fan fare over it perhaps spawning more violence.

    i dont have the simplistic view about villainy that you do– though, I admit, i have a special reserve of unchecked hatred for Cheney and Rumsfeld and all bureaucrats who operate in a parallel universe where nihilism and hubris rule…and an even more special reserve of revulsion for those stupid enough to fall for the spin that gives these types their hall pass.

    when i think of Bin Laden (which isnt often) i only see a physically repulsive looking man with a genius for tapping into a particular zeitgeist and spinning a compelling narrative perverting brilliantly everything from Che to the Koran.

    Anger and disenfranchisement are the raw ingredients more dangerous than a 1000 nuclear war heads.

  531. Sergio Says:

    whose. wannabees. buffalos.

  532. Johnny Holmes Says:

    Bin Laden is recognized as a villain.
    Therefore Bin Laden is the only villain.

    That’s your premise and conclusion for my perception of villainy. Only because I’ve stated his death is to be celebrated. Pretty silly Anna.

    Now it’s absolutely true that Bush played right into Bin Laden’s hands by reacting wrongly to the 9/11 attacks. Loss of civil liberties, an unaccountable executive branch, wasteful defense expenditures, the Iraq war, etc. That is why some journalists are claiming that his demise is a hollow victory.

    I happen to disagree. Allowing those who planned and executed the atrocity of 9/11 to escape justice is simply intolerable. At least now the friends and families of those murdered have some closure. That alone is cause for celebration.

    In addition, as I pointed out initially, killing Bin Laden is a huge political coup for Obama. This action has inoculated him from right wing attacks on national security in the upcoming election. Maybe that’s not worth celebrating but it’s good.

  533. AC Says:

    nothing is going to change, Johnny. gives the newspapers and media something fart about for a few days and the rest of the peasants an excuse to roar and slaver.

    what is interesting is that he had bloody great specially built compound next door to military academy and in the burbs so to speak from Islamabad. that shows how rotten western intel has been that something that bold could not have been suspect and that how impenetrable the Pakastani state is…and for some reason UK which has an ethnic population that could have been drawn on as agents etiher wasnt involved in gathering intel or as has happened in past was letting the US jerk off for strategic reasons.

    the issue is that bin laden/al qued was on radar back in late 90′s and all the major intel branches had a lot of very specific information as to key players and an action in the making. but because of some insane culture of competition rather than a sense of unity about security–which certainly validates suspicions about just what these billion gazillion dollar black hole black ops listening apparatus and private security companies of every imaginable type–are really for…

    so yeah, its a fucking hollow victory. if you want to imagine him behind a consul all these years like a Bond villain…

    if you bothered to read a lot of the reactions from around the world and in the middle east OBL is passe and with the advent of what is being called the Arab Spring he has become even more inconsequential. As the general population gains a sense of potency demagogues loose theirs. if only that would happen here.

  534. AC Says:

    “Allowing those who planned and executed the atrocity of 9/11 to escape justice is simply intolerable.”

    oh you are really naive and childish to think there is ever justice in these matters. do you know how many Nazi thugs got invited to the US to live happily ever after because they had a little information? I guess we didnt torture people then to get just negotiated deals.

  535. AC Says:

    and the US is still playing footsie with thugs as are other Western countries. consider Baby Doc Duvalier. Makes Bin Laden look like Santa Claus. think of many of the deposed tyrants who went off with a boat load of cash to live happily ever after.

  536. AC Says:

    Monster Mash:

    Elizabeth Abbott, Haiti: An insider’s history of the rise and fall of the Duvaliers. Simon & Schuster (1988),

  537. Ahmed Says:

    Whereas keeping to myself indifference represents hope. Classic. I spent one summer taking this very train-”next stop Bedford Ave.” Man I love New York.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jox5vMFASLA&feature=player_embedded

  538. AC Says:

    Ahmed. Perfect.

  539. Johnny Holmes Says:

    nothing is going to change, Johnny. gives the newspapers and media something fart about for a few days and the rest of the peasants an excuse to roar and slaver.

    Things have already changed. The friends and family of those killed on 9/11 (I assume you lump them in with the other peasants) have some justice and closure. Obama has bolstered his national security credentials. Whether or not that has a bearing on the election remains to be seen, but it sure can’t hurt. We’ll see how this helps in the greater battle against Al Qaeda.

    what is interesting is that he had bloody great specially built compound next door to military academy and in the burbs so to speak from Islamabad. that shows how rotten western intel has been that something that bold could not have been suspect and that how impenetrable the Pakastani state is…and for some reason UK which has an ethnic population that could have been drawn on as agents etiher wasnt involved in gathering intel or as has happened in past was letting the US jerk off for strategic reasons.

    the issue is that bin laden/al qued was on radar back in late 90?s and all the major intel branches had a lot of very specific information as to key players and an action in the making. but because of some insane culture of competition rather than a sense of unity about security–which certainly validates suspicions about just what these billion gazillion dollar black hole black ops listening apparatus and private security companies of every imaginable type–are really for…

    so yeah, its a fucking hollow victory.

    Are you saying that killing Bin Laden is not a victory because there were intelligence failures and that he was killed now rather than 15 years ago? Certainly it would have been preferable to have killed him before 9/11. Duh.

    if you bothered to read a lot of the reactions from around the world and in the middle east OBL is passe and with the advent of what is being called the Arab Spring he has become even more inconsequential. As the general population gains a sense of potency demagogues loose theirs. if only that would happen here.

    He is, or I should say was, the George Washington of Al Qaeda. He may be inconsequential to the worldwide Arab and Muslim community but not to the followers of Islamo Fascism–regardless of his decreased strategic involvement in terrorism.

    “Allowing those who planned and executed the atrocity of 9/11 to escape justice is simply intolerable.”

    oh you are really naive and childish to think there is ever justice in these matters.

    There was justice in this case. You seem to think it’s “adult” to just let terrorists kill thousands of civilians on US soil and not bother to pursue and destroy them. Pretty bizarre viewpoint.

    do you know how many Nazi thugs got invited to the US to live happily ever after because they had a little information? I guess we didnt torture people then to get just negotiated deals.

    …and the US is still playing footsie with thugs as are other Western countries. consider Baby Doc Duvalier. Makes Bin Laden look like Santa Claus. think of many of the deposed tyrants who went off with a boat load of cash to live happily ever after.

    Since the US government has supported tyrants the US should not pursue Al Qaeda terrorists who kill Americans. Okey Dokey.

    You know Anna, reading everything you’ve said on this topic, I find it most revealing that you proclaim hatred for Dick Cheney yet none for Bin Laden. Very revealing.

  540. AC Says:

    Johnny, you are a paranoid fantasist who watches too much TV.

    oh yes, very revealing that i don’t slaver and froth hatred about someone whose agenda and profile have long been established and has a gazillion dollar bounty on his head along with the calvary on his heels and it being only a matter of time before he would be caught and killed…unless of course he could be proven to be more useful to some corporate interest to be kept alive and set up in some walled palace somewhere– rather than focusing my animus towards state sponsored crooks who get away with mass murder and mayhem and will NEVER be brought to justice EVER. yeah, i make real bad choices.

    and given the thousands maimed and killed and the destruction of Iraq just to get their oil—yeah, johnny come lately to reality, the death of bin laden is a hollow victory.

    and get off the revolting jingoistic high horse acting as if you are speaking for all the victims of 9-11. i seem to recall quite a few of the surviving families being livid with people like you claiming to speak for the politics of their family members that perished.

    and while you are on your high horse about the victims of September 11th how about the first responders who were fucked by their own countrymen and politicians yet USED politically. how many of them have died and are dying from lack of medical care.

    you think the politicians and bureaucrats that refused to IMMEDIATELY grant these people care are ever going to get the justice they deserved? and, frankly, that kind of cold blooded disregard that kills people is, to me, far more heinous than a bin laden.

    i dont give a shit about bin laden. there will always be a bin laden. i do care about what gives them their power…that is what has to be reckoned with. a bin laden or a hitler or a Saddam or a Bush don’t commit their crimes alone. what they stand for resonates with thousands.

    dig it

  541. Johnny Holmes Says:

    Anna, you are completely unable to articulate as well as defend anything you say with even a hint of rationality.

    Your posts on this subject are completely disjointed, full of assumptions, generalities, straw men, and fanciful fits of pseudo intellectual babbling.

    They amount to nothing more than the infantile outbursts of a hysterical nitwit.

    Now please continue your ranting. My eyes are glazing over reading your tiring tirades so I’m done here.

  542. AC Says:

    “The toxic nature of the site—the dust and gases—contributed to illnesses and deaths among thousands of police officers, firefighters, and construction workers. But the government resisted the warning bells for years, until the damage was done.”

  543. AC Says:

    #
    Health effects arising from the September 11 attacks – Wikipedia …
    There is scientific speculation that exposure to various toxic products …..
    the institute estimated that the number of registrants could reach 65000 in two
    years. … The researchers for the study confirmed 98 deaths with death
    certificates. … NYPD Detective James Zadroga, 34, was the first 9/11 responder
    whose …
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_… – Cached – Similar
    #

    Thousands of Heroic 9/11 First Responders Will Likely Die an Early …
    Sep 20, 2006 … Heroic first responders are dying of toxic exposure at Ground Zero. Now they are
    asking the 9/11 Truth movement to wake up the rest of the …
    http://www.organicconsumers.org/2006/article... – Cached – Similar
    #

    9-11 Health Bill the Only Worker Safety Measure Passed in Lame …
    Dec 27, 2010 … Add in illnesses from toxic exposure, and you’re talking about 50000 workers a
    year. … I think we should celebrate treatment for the 9-11 first responders.
    … The actual number of deaths from occupational injuries and …
    news.firedoglake.com/2010/12/27/9-11-… – Cached – Similar
    #

    NYPD Officer’s Body Taken After Wake for Investigation | United …
    Mar 30, 2011 … The ’9/11 toxic exposure’ cause of death stricken from record … had died due
    to gastric cancer caused by “9/11 toxic exposure.” Wong was a first-responder at
    the World Trade Center site on … “In five or 10 years we might find a link,
    then we will have a record of all these deaths of people who …
    http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/united-state... – Cached – Similar
    #

    9/11 First responders death toll nears 1000
    How many first responders were there on 9/11 and who do you consider a first
    responder. … Making sure deserving people get their due versus avoiding an
    …. the average number of active duty deaths per year (active duty … many
    related to asbestos and other toxic exposures and none of the …
    http://www.911jobforums.com/showthread.php%3... – Cached – Similar
    #

    Health News Blog — 9/11 World Trade Center Responders
    And she said she believes illnesses killing first responders can be blamed ….
    But it’s clear that many of the estimated 40000 police, firefighters and other
    … The likelihood of new deaths related to 9/11 increased when the autopsy
    report … there is a scientific link between deaths and exposure to toxic dust.

    http://www.healthnewsblog.com/wtcresponders/ – Cached – Similar
    #

    9/11 Asbestos Exposure at Ground Zero
    Jul 26, 2010 … It’s now estimated that more than 100000 individuals may have … Most of the
    first responders were not wearing protective gear when … who may have been
    exposed to toxic asbestos from 9/11 buildings, … Mesothelioma Deaths by
    Industry · Mesothelioma Deaths by Occupation · Mesothelioma Statistics …
    http://www.asbestosnews.com/asbestos/911-exp... – Cached – Similar

  544. AC Says:

    …”It’s now estimated that more than 100000 individuals may have … Most of the
    first responders were not wearing protective gear when ”

    ________________________________________________________

    I remember it being on the news that first responders were told NOT to wear masks or protective gear…

    this same monstrous insanity occurred during the BP clean up.

    ——————————————————–

    Lets talk about Katrina shall we, Johnny?

    1800 something because of the levees and because a Mayor and a governor and a long corrupt political system that was fueled on stupidity and venality couldn’t create a protocol to evacuate hospitals, care homes or the vulnerable and people without transportation. Inexcusable.

    Bin Laden? an amateur compared with the contemptuousness that killed nearly two thousand people

  545. Jim R Says:

    Where’s all the anger coming from Anna? Who done this to you? The bastid ought to be hunted down and shot….even if it takes 10 years.

  546. AC Says:

    btw: AP article day raising just the issue i was over disgust with OTT death glee AS EXPRESSED BY SURVIVING FAMILY MEMBERS OF THOSE KILLED ON 9-11. Including a kid whose father was killed and came home feeling sick about the kids stupidly jumping about over OBL death. many equated the American euphoria with that of those shots of a few groups of men in the middle east cheering the destruction on 9-11. think about it…

    what you dont get is its not that one isnt relieved that his acting still as strategist has been stopped its the perverse American phony patriotic childish jumping up and down quick fix glee lacking in any real understanding of all the politics involved that is disturbing.

  547. AC Says:

    and Jim…whats your beef with the poor and disenfranchised? someone take your stuff when you were a kid? your father beat you…is that why you become a right wing thug? or did you just grow up in some inbred fundamentalist cult?

  548. AC Says:

    http://www.voltairenet.org/article164179.html

    Over 1 Million Iraqi deaths caused by US invasion and occupation

  549. Frank Says:

    A Monster of Our Own Creation:

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/a_monster_of_our_own_creation_20110504/

  550. Jim R Says:

    I rather believe he was a monster of the Soviet Unions creation. We didn’t start the cold war, but we finished it using whoever and whatever was necessary. A noble cause only slightly less than defeating the Third Reich.

    We will finish this evil as well.

    Frank and Anna just don’t like the evil of the war necessary to defeat the greater evil. In addition, regardless of how Frank and Anna want to justify their unjustifiable position by claiming the US is interested in defeating and occupying territory, history shows the opposite…..a and highly unusual behavior throughout history for powerful nations to free others people and leave they are safe and strong themselves.

    Iraq is almost ready for our exit.

  551. Jim R Says:

    Another evil is those who pollute young and impressionable students minds with warped, negative and angry dogma while they are classroom captives.

    How some of these characters ever get into these positions of influence over our young people is another issue altogether. It borders on criminal professionalism.

  552. Jim R Says:

    ….that would be ‘unprofessionalism’ of course.

  553. AC Says:

    Jim r, you are like a Stepford right wing robo bozo. you need a new chip.

  554. Degreed cryptozoologist Says:

    I think this maniacal anna churchill dislikes any war or action the USA gets involved in because she desperately hates this country.
    I’d be willing to bet she literally burst into tears the day the berlin wall came down. In her twisted, perverted and murderously hate-filled view, the wrong side won.
    Unlike our resident boob reg, whose stunningly low IQ renders him unsalvagable, i still hold out a small kernal of hope for AC. Even the one’s here who so dislike her would have to admit, i think, that she’s a powerful advocate for her beliefs, distorted though they be. Like an attacking pit bull, she grabs hold and won’t let go, come hell or high water. As such, i have respect for her, and i’ll say it again, she’s got more balls than most anyone else at this site. If we conservatives could channel that fury and bring it to our side, we’d have one more powerful weapon in our arsenal.
    We could periodically let her off the leash and watch her render these liberal socialists asunder.

  555. pablo Says:

    We didn’t start the cold war, but we finished it using whoever and whatever was necessary.
    —————

    I never imagined that the past could be so unpredictable.

  556. pablo Says:

    “render”? “asunder”?

    Oh DAmN! The lexicon does seem to have left its fingerprint.
    Our multi-monikered serves up the usual caca… perhaps never aware that the likes of a Mark Twain (muy socialista!) or a Walt Whitman (a bridge in Philly named after him, too!) were far more strident than our resident bulldog.

    Best understood In Canto General: “America, I like your face but not your mask”… a jingo cannot parse out the empire from the republic and thus conflates the two at every turn… The Alamo is remembered, Custer was massacred, the Spanish blew up the Maine…. and now AC “desperately hates this country”… there is an indefeasible sacrosanct narrative: “He was reaching for his gun…”

  557. Jim R Says:

    Analysis paralysis.

  558. Jim R Says:

    Nuance numbness.

  559. Jim R Says:

    Lost in the grass.

  560. reg Says:

    Once more I have to applaud Degreed Cryptozoologist. What’s interesting in his comments (and I’m leaving my own views on AC aside) is his assertion of certain perverse traits (“pit bull…fury”) that he then proceeds to applaud. Rarely does one see such an open admission of the intellectual, analytical and moral bankruptcy of what is called “conservatism” in our contemporary political discourse. Of course, the right-wing is populated by the type of women he pines for – no wonder so many of his ilk (and I think there’s a better than 60% chance this brain-dead sod is GMRoper’s alter-ego, so this is particularly appropriate a reference) couldn’t generate any enthusiasm for John McCain’s candidacy until he took on the baggage of Baby-Girl Palin, the Fatima of Facebook.

    Keep it coming. This thread is burned out beyond belief, but I do rather enjoy DCZ’s forays into telling self-degradation.

  561. Anna Churchill Says:

    lolololol

    de crazy ca ca and jim jingo

    de crazy gives me credit for being a secret Lisbeth Salander! if only!

  562. Anna Churchill Says:

    de crazy is either woody or white corner boy…but sounds more like a Woody.

  563. Anna Churchill Says:

    on a more serious note: de crazy you are stalking me and being obsessive in your personal comments rather than commenting on issues. i wonder if you aren’t getting close to crossing a legal line…so watch it. you are being watched.

  564. Anna Churchill Says:

    does anyone remember the name of the other woody-esque poster last year i outed as possibly being some Northrup Grumman VP of accounting or some such?

  565. Anna Churchill Says:

    and right after I posted the link to the NG sight with a name and picture his posts stopped.

  566. rob Says:

    As someone who reads Marcs blog updates, whenever he gets to them, may I remark that I’ve never met a more pathetic bunch of losers than you all.

    thank you.

  567. Jim R Says:

    Glad rob changed the subject to losers. Let’s talk about the losers…..and winners.

    Winners:
    *CIA Intelligence
    *CIA Interrogators
    *US Military
    *Navy Seals
    *President Bush
    *President Obama
    *9/11 Victims

    Losers:
    *WH Loose-lips
    *Leftist Appeasers
    *Eric Holder’s Lawyers
    *bin Laden
    *Al Qaeda
    *9/11 Victims

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  569. Jared Gasque Says:

    I ponder if it is going to b right? Is The Donald gonna go after president? He’d get a ton of votes!

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