Comments on: The Other War: Race http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/ Tue, 06 Mar 2012 06:55:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Natalia Nykiel http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-620682 Natalia Nykiel Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:45:31 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-620682 Too good dude! I liked it!! Too good dude! I liked it!!

]]> By: Lee http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-531024 Lee Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:01:44 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-531024 <strong>Lee...</strong> If you’re just getting started in Internet Marketing you may be awed by the amount of Internet Gurus out there, each one making millions of dollars (or so they claim) and for some reason seem more than willing, for a fee, to teach you their bigge... Lee…

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]]> By: Ben http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-493909 Ben Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:41:37 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-493909 <strong>Ben...</strong> ... Ben…

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]]> By: Egypt Homes http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-393180 Egypt Homes Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:06:28 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-393180 <strong>Egypt Homes...</strong> I Googled for something completely different, but found your page...and have to say thanks. nice read.... Egypt Homes…

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]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/ Tue, 06 Mar 2012 06:55:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 Comments on: The Other War: Race http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/ Tue, 06 Mar 2012 06:55:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Natalia Nykiel http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-620682 Natalia Nykiel Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:45:31 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-620682 Too good dude! I liked it!! Too good dude! I liked it!!

]]> By: Lee http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-531024 Lee Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:01:44 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-531024 <strong>Lee...</strong> If you’re just getting started in Internet Marketing you may be awed by the amount of Internet Gurus out there, each one making millions of dollars (or so they claim) and for some reason seem more than willing, for a fee, to teach you their bigge... Lee…

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]]> By: Ben http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-493909 Ben Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:41:37 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-493909 <strong>Ben...</strong> ... Ben…

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]]> By: Egypt Homes http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-393180 Egypt Homes Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:06:28 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-393180 <strong>Egypt Homes...</strong> I Googled for something completely different, but found your page...and have to say thanks. nice read.... Egypt Homes…

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]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

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]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-531024 Lee Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:01:44 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-531024 <strong>Lee...</strong> If you’re just getting started in Internet Marketing you may be awed by the amount of Internet Gurus out there, each one making millions of dollars (or so they claim) and for some reason seem more than willing, for a fee, to teach you their bigge... Lee…

If you’re just getting started in Internet Marketing you may be awed by the amount of Internet Gurus out there, each one making millions of dollars (or so they claim) and for some reason seem more than willing, for a fee, to teach you their bigge…

]]> Comments on: The Other War: Race http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/ Tue, 06 Mar 2012 06:55:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Natalia Nykiel http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-620682 Natalia Nykiel Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:45:31 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-620682 Too good dude! I liked it!! Too good dude! I liked it!!

]]> By: Lee http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-531024 Lee Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:01:44 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-531024 <strong>Lee...</strong> If you’re just getting started in Internet Marketing you may be awed by the amount of Internet Gurus out there, each one making millions of dollars (or so they claim) and for some reason seem more than willing, for a fee, to teach you their bigge... Lee…

If you’re just getting started in Internet Marketing you may be awed by the amount of Internet Gurus out there, each one making millions of dollars (or so they claim) and for some reason seem more than willing, for a fee, to teach you their bigge…

]]> By: Ben http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-493909 Ben Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:41:37 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-493909 <strong>Ben...</strong> ... Ben…

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]]> By: Egypt Homes http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-393180 Egypt Homes Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:06:28 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-393180 <strong>Egypt Homes...</strong> I Googled for something completely different, but found your page...and have to say thanks. nice read.... Egypt Homes…

I Googled for something completely different, but found your page…and have to say thanks. nice read….

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-493909 Ben Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:41:37 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-493909 <strong>Ben...</strong> ... Ben…

…

]]> Comments on: The Other War: Race http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/ Tue, 06 Mar 2012 06:55:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Natalia Nykiel http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-620682 Natalia Nykiel Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:45:31 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-620682 Too good dude! I liked it!! Too good dude! I liked it!!

]]> By: Lee http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-531024 Lee Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:01:44 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-531024 <strong>Lee...</strong> If you’re just getting started in Internet Marketing you may be awed by the amount of Internet Gurus out there, each one making millions of dollars (or so they claim) and for some reason seem more than willing, for a fee, to teach you their bigge... Lee…

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]]> By: Ben http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-493909 Ben Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:41:37 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-493909 <strong>Ben...</strong> ... Ben…

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]]> By: Egypt Homes http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-393180 Egypt Homes Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:06:28 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-393180 <strong>Egypt Homes...</strong> I Googled for something completely different, but found your page...and have to say thanks. nice read.... Egypt Homes…

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]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

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May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

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]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

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]]> By: Egypt Homes http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-393180 Egypt Homes Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:06:28 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-393180 <strong>Egypt Homes...</strong> I Googled for something completely different, but found your page...and have to say thanks. nice read.... Egypt Homes…

I Googled for something completely different, but found your page…and have to say thanks. nice read….

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> Comments on: The Other War: Race http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/ Tue, 06 Mar 2012 06:55:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Natalia Nykiel http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-620682 Natalia Nykiel Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:45:31 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-620682 Too good dude! I liked it!! Too good dude! I liked it!!

]]> By: Lee http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-531024 Lee Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:01:44 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-531024 <strong>Lee...</strong> If you’re just getting started in Internet Marketing you may be awed by the amount of Internet Gurus out there, each one making millions of dollars (or so they claim) and for some reason seem more than willing, for a fee, to teach you their bigge... Lee…

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]]> By: Ben http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-493909 Ben Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:41:37 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-493909 <strong>Ben...</strong> ... Ben…

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]]> By: Egypt Homes http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-393180 Egypt Homes Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:06:28 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-393180 <strong>Egypt Homes...</strong> I Googled for something completely different, but found your page...and have to say thanks. nice read.... Egypt Homes…

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]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> Comments on: The Other War: Race http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/ Tue, 06 Mar 2012 06:55:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Natalia Nykiel http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-620682 Natalia Nykiel Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:45:31 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-620682 Too good dude! I liked it!! Too good dude! I liked it!!

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]]> By: Egypt Homes http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-393180 Egypt Homes Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:06:28 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-393180 <strong>Egypt Homes...</strong> I Googled for something completely different, but found your page...and have to say thanks. nice read.... Egypt Homes…

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]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

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]]> By: Egypt Homes http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-393180 Egypt Homes Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:06:28 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-393180 <strong>Egypt Homes...</strong> I Googled for something completely different, but found your page...and have to say thanks. nice read.... Egypt Homes…

I Googled for something completely different, but found your page…and have to say thanks. nice read….

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> Comments on: The Other War: Race http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/ Tue, 06 Mar 2012 06:55:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Natalia Nykiel http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-620682 Natalia Nykiel Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:45:31 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-620682 Too good dude! I liked it!! Too good dude! I liked it!!

]]> By: Lee http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-531024 Lee Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:01:44 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-531024 <strong>Lee...</strong> If you’re just getting started in Internet Marketing you may be awed by the amount of Internet Gurus out there, each one making millions of dollars (or so they claim) and for some reason seem more than willing, for a fee, to teach you their bigge... Lee…

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]]> By: Egypt Homes http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-393180 Egypt Homes Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:06:28 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-393180 <strong>Egypt Homes...</strong> I Googled for something completely different, but found your page...and have to say thanks. nice read.... Egypt Homes…

I Googled for something completely different, but found your page…and have to say thanks. nice read….

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> Comments on: The Other War: Race http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/ Tue, 06 Mar 2012 06:55:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Natalia Nykiel http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-620682 Natalia Nykiel Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:45:31 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-620682 Too good dude! I liked it!! Too good dude! I liked it!!

]]> By: Lee http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-531024 Lee Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:01:44 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-531024 <strong>Lee...</strong> If you’re just getting started in Internet Marketing you may be awed by the amount of Internet Gurus out there, each one making millions of dollars (or so they claim) and for some reason seem more than willing, for a fee, to teach you their bigge... Lee…

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]]> By: Ben http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-493909 Ben Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:41:37 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-493909 <strong>Ben...</strong> ... Ben…

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]]> By: Egypt Homes http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-393180 Egypt Homes Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:06:28 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-393180 <strong>Egypt Homes...</strong> I Googled for something completely different, but found your page...and have to say thanks. nice read.... Egypt Homes…

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]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> Comments on: The Other War: Race http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/ Tue, 06 Mar 2012 06:55:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Natalia Nykiel http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-620682 Natalia Nykiel Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:45:31 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-620682 Too good dude! I liked it!! Too good dude! I liked it!!

]]> By: Lee http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-531024 Lee Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:01:44 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-531024 <strong>Lee...</strong> If you’re just getting started in Internet Marketing you may be awed by the amount of Internet Gurus out there, each one making millions of dollars (or so they claim) and for some reason seem more than willing, for a fee, to teach you their bigge... Lee…

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]]> By: Egypt Homes http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-393180 Egypt Homes Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:06:28 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-393180 <strong>Egypt Homes...</strong> I Googled for something completely different, but found your page...and have to say thanks. nice read.... Egypt Homes…

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]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

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]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

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]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> Comments on: The Other War: Race http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/ Tue, 06 Mar 2012 06:55:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Natalia Nykiel http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-620682 Natalia Nykiel Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:45:31 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-620682 Too good dude! I liked it!! Too good dude! I liked it!!

]]> By: Lee http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-531024 Lee Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:01:44 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-531024 <strong>Lee...</strong> If you’re just getting started in Internet Marketing you may be awed by the amount of Internet Gurus out there, each one making millions of dollars (or so they claim) and for some reason seem more than willing, for a fee, to teach you their bigge... Lee…

If you’re just getting started in Internet Marketing you may be awed by the amount of Internet Gurus out there, each one making millions of dollars (or so they claim) and for some reason seem more than willing, for a fee, to teach you their bigge…

]]> By: Ben http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-493909 Ben Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:41:37 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-493909 <strong>Ben...</strong> ... Ben…

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]]> By: Egypt Homes http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-393180 Egypt Homes Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:06:28 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-393180 <strong>Egypt Homes...</strong> I Googled for something completely different, but found your page...and have to say thanks. nice read.... Egypt Homes…

I Googled for something completely different, but found your page…and have to say thanks. nice read….

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> Comments on: The Other War: Race http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/ Tue, 06 Mar 2012 06:55:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Natalia Nykiel http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-620682 Natalia Nykiel Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:45:31 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-620682 Too good dude! I liked it!! Too good dude! I liked it!!

]]> By: Lee http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-531024 Lee Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:01:44 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-531024 <strong>Lee...</strong> If you’re just getting started in Internet Marketing you may be awed by the amount of Internet Gurus out there, each one making millions of dollars (or so they claim) and for some reason seem more than willing, for a fee, to teach you their bigge... Lee…

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]]> By: Ben http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-493909 Ben Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:41:37 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-493909 <strong>Ben...</strong> ... Ben…

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]]> By: Egypt Homes http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-393180 Egypt Homes Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:06:28 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-393180 <strong>Egypt Homes...</strong> I Googled for something completely different, but found your page...and have to say thanks. nice read.... Egypt Homes…

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]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

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]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

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]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> Comments on: The Other War: Race http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/ Tue, 06 Mar 2012 06:55:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Natalia Nykiel http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-620682 Natalia Nykiel Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:45:31 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-620682 Too good dude! I liked it!! Too good dude! I liked it!!

]]> By: Lee http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-531024 Lee Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:01:44 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-531024 <strong>Lee...</strong> If you’re just getting started in Internet Marketing you may be awed by the amount of Internet Gurus out there, each one making millions of dollars (or so they claim) and for some reason seem more than willing, for a fee, to teach you their bigge... Lee…

If you’re just getting started in Internet Marketing you may be awed by the amount of Internet Gurus out there, each one making millions of dollars (or so they claim) and for some reason seem more than willing, for a fee, to teach you their bigge…

]]> By: Ben http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-493909 Ben Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:41:37 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-493909 <strong>Ben...</strong> ... Ben…

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]]> By: Egypt Homes http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-393180 Egypt Homes Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:06:28 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-393180 <strong>Egypt Homes...</strong> I Googled for something completely different, but found your page...and have to say thanks. nice read.... Egypt Homes…

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]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

]]> Comments on: The Other War: Race http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/ Tue, 06 Mar 2012 06:55:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Natalia Nykiel http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-620682 Natalia Nykiel Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:45:31 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-620682 Too good dude! I liked it!! Too good dude! I liked it!!

]]> By: Lee http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-531024 Lee Mon, 02 Jul 2007 08:01:44 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-531024 <strong>Lee...</strong> If you’re just getting started in Internet Marketing you may be awed by the amount of Internet Gurus out there, each one making millions of dollars (or so they claim) and for some reason seem more than willing, for a fee, to teach you their bigge... Lee…

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]]> By: Ben http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-493909 Ben Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:41:37 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-493909 <strong>Ben...</strong> ... Ben…

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]]> By: Egypt Homes http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-393180 Egypt Homes Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:06:28 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-393180 <strong>Egypt Homes...</strong> I Googled for something completely different, but found your page...and have to say thanks. nice read.... Egypt Homes…

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]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180804 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:00 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180804 Right on. Right on.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180802 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:31:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180802 "reg’s going a bit over the top" I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn't be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion. “reg’s going a bit over the top”

I just wanted to give Woody something that wouldn’t be disorienting if he checks back into this discussion.

]]> By: Rob Grocholski http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180799 Rob Grocholski Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:22:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180799 OK, I'm guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn't help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc's site.... quick feedback on reg's "I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man" I'm assuming reg's going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan. OK, I’m guilty. Not yet finished reading all of the Ellis Cose piece, but I couldn’t help but taking a peek at where the discussion is at on Marc’s site….

quick feedback on reg’s

“I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man”

I’m assuming reg’s going a bit over the top with that last part, but I think its worth noting that the UAW AND General Motors both oppose Prop 2 in Michigan.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180784 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180784 "white man's rule" ? - no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like "death blow to the White Man". There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today's climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it's in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I'm making a case on something that's pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill's 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I'm reluctant to simply dismiss it. “white man’s rule” ? – no I want to induce maximum paranoia, if only for tactical effect. I like “death blow to the White Man”.

There are a lot of companies where the notion of unionization in today’s climate might as well be Waiting for Godot. As for health care, frankly I think if we get anything that remotely looks like a decent universal health care package out of DC it will be, in part, because at least a significant faction of corporate America recognizes that it’s in their own self-interest. As for window-dressing, something can be effective PR, and still be worthwhile. I’m making a case on something that’s pretty narrow here, but when you think of some of the tangibles in terms of some Joe or Jill’s 9-5 experience stretched over several decades, I’m reluctant to simply dismiss it.

]]> By: richard locicero http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180785 richard locicero Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180785 Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I'm not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I'm not sure what you're going to do about it. This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US. Wall raises some interesting points but I really should remind him that we live in a capitalist society and, until that changes, it is progress if larges organizations decide that it is good for business to be diverse. I’m not sure what you mean by creating products of debatable impact on society. Sounds a lot like production for use and then we get into the question of what is useful. Cell Phones? HD TVs? Viagra? Again we have market economies and until that changes I’m not sure what you’re going to do about it.

This does not mean lassez faire. Europe has capitalist societies and market economies and also provides generous social safety nets. And, lately, higher growth rates thatn the US.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180762 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:50:47 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180762 Reg, perhaps that should be "white man's rule."(?) Or.... corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that's O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it's important not to use racial slurs. I hope you're right, but I'm waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department. Reg, perhaps that should be “white man’s rule.”(?) Or…. corporations promoting diversity in their ranks will enevitably use it as window dressing. What if it becomes harder and harder, for instance, to obtain affordable health insurance without working for a huge, non-union company that creates products of debatable impact on society at large? But that’s O.K., we have seminairs explaining why it’s important not to use racial slurs.

I hope you’re right, but I’m waiting for some healthy skepticism to be brought to some of these issues. I expect it will roll in around the time we review no bid contracts in the Defence Department.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180739 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:27:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180739 I forgot to mention the part, for Woody's sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step. I forgot to mention the part, for Woody’s sake, how I do think that over the long term corporations promoting diversity in their ranks might make it a bit easier to bring Imperialism to its knees and deal a death-blow to the White Man. As Chairman Mao said, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180738 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:24:10 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180738 I'd say that it's liberal...as distinct from social democratic. The only point I'm making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it's part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who's at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn't be much of a surprise. It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker - and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it's not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever's in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it. I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment - not a small thing. I’d say that it’s liberal…as distinct from social democratic. The only point I’m making is that some corporations are, in fact, committed to diversity as more than window-dressing in the sense that they see a necessity to go beyond tokenism in their hiring and promotion practices. And, yes, it’s part of their business plan. This has real benefits for real people in the workforce and probably some significant benefit for custumers in terms of service. That it might only glacially impact who’s at the very top or and not affect one iota how the profits are divided up shouldn’t be much of a surprise.

It does impact most of the jobs and most of the people in some tangible ways. Frankly, working in an environment where you feel like you can be promoted and valued as much as anyone else is very important to any worker – and especially to groups of people who have been routinely discriminated against. Also, in those environments, if it’s not part of the business plan and promoted by the top management, as opposed to whoever’s in charge of putting on the Black History Month festivities, nothing effective will come of it.

I think it makes a lot of difference for a large slice of the workforce in terms of their opportunities and having a decent working environment – not a small thing.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180703 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:53:25 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180703 Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn't sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it's good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it's rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That's done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side. Well, I hope Woody is taking notes. This doesn’t sound too liberal to me. Respectfully, Reg, we seem to be discribing system where a deverse workforce is put in place because it’s good for business and the right thing to do. Said workforce, in all it’s rainbow hues, however, must remain of one mind when it comes to deciding how the spoils of company profits are devided. That’s done by the people at the top, who somehow tend to remain a touch on the pale side.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180545 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 15:19:14 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180545 Never been unionized and they're not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they're "professionalized", heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board - they imagine that they're "financial consultants" as opposed to low-level salespeople. The "proletarianized" pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don't think they'll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn't even begin to describe their approach to "team buliding", but they're not stupid and it mostly works. I'm often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate "culture" initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx's critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It's 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened "human relations", but it's gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I'm a contractor working with their "creatives" and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused. Never been unionized and they’re not likely to ever be. They use a lot of part-timers and students at the most basic entry level, and as soon as folks move beyond that they’re “professionalized”, heavily mentored and given fancy titles across the board – they imagine that they’re “financial consultants” as opposed to low-level salespeople. The “proletarianized” pieces of the operation like call centers are increasingly centered in outlying areas like Montana (I don’t think they’ll be able to move that stuff to India for a variety of reasons). Kool Aid doesn’t even begin to describe their approach to “team buliding”, but they’re not stupid and it mostly works. I’m often amazed at the degree to which the more sophisticated corporate “culture” initiatives aimed at creating cohesion and motivation among employees are like a bizarre parallel universe designed with considerable coherence to, in effect, anticipate Marx’s critique of the alienation of workers under capitalism. It’s 50% annoying BS and 50% enlightened “human relations”, but it’s gotten pretty damned fine-tuned. I’m a contractor working with their “creatives” and outside of the loop that actually creates any value, so I can afford to be amused.

]]> By: Wall http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180520 Wall Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:50:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180520 Reg, how is the corperation on Unions? Reg, how is the corperation on Unions?

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180416 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:32:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180416 This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees - even extending to smaller "markets" in the midwest and southwest. They've got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They're more progressive than most on this, but they aren't as exceptional as one might expect either. This corporation, incidentally, is also very openly promoting gay acceptance among their employees – even extending to smaller “markets” in the midwest and southwest. They’ve got a gay employees organization, with full support of the company, in Iowa. They’re more progressive than most on this, but they aren’t as exceptional as one might expect either.

]]> By: reg http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180412 reg Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:27:32 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180412 I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective - even emotional - appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers' ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity - one is because it's the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a "legitimate" business value), and the other is because it's important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them - for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don't denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn't make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren't bullshitting - although when it comes to upper-level management it's still very lopsided. It's easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there's a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that's being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that's a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I'd rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the "natural" tendency amongst themselves to value or "get" people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects. I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that's seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow. I regularly work with a corporation that has a diversity initiative with a lot of support from the top down. I have to say that some of the best, most effective – even emotional – appeals for the the importance of what I would call inclusiveness, of reaching out to new recruits and younger employees beyond the managers’ ethno-centric assumptions, have been in the context of this corporate initiative. They are very clear that there are two reasons for the emphasis on diversity – one is because it’s the right thing to do for employees themselves (which is an issue of fairness, morale and group cohesion, so it is also a “legitimate” business value), and the other is because it’s important to have your workforce in complement with your customer base (both for reasons of external appearances and marketing as well as for reasons of making rational decisions regarding emerging markets and having the tools to communicate and service them – for example bilingual employees, culturally sensitive people designing marketing campaigns, employees active in their communities and promoting a positive corporate image, etc.) These are all real concerns and, personally, I don’t denigrate them because it means real opportunities open up for real people that would be less likely to exist if the company didn’t make a major effort to push diversity as a core value. They aren’t bullshitting – although when it comes to upper-level management it’s still very lopsided. It’s easy to point to that fact and be cynical about the whole effort (cynical or naive?) although I also believe that while it will be the last level to change there’s a long-term inevitabllity of those jobs opening up given the corporate culture that’s being promoted. Some or another version of affirmative action is alive and well in much of corporate America so far as I can tell, and that’s a good thing with tangible results for real people. Frankly, I’d rather hear a CEO lecture his managers on the need to promote and hire from a broad spectrum, and to recognize that the “natural” tendency amongst themselves to value or “get” people essentially like themselves is a negative for their employees and for the company, than hear recycled rhetoric from the usual familiar suspects.

I also believe that, while affirmative action is imporant at places like the upper-echelon public and private universities, the crisis in our educational system at the entry and middle levels is so extreme for kids of color and poorer kids in general that unless that’s seriously addressed, the rest of it is a sideshow.

]]> By: anonymous http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180275 anonymous Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:36:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180275 Mr. Cooper: May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss. Mr. Cooper:

May God bless you and your loved ones in your time of loss.

]]> By: RcerX http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/comment-page-1/#comment-180031 RcerX Tue, 07 Nov 2006 07:40:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-other-war-race/#comment-180031 I agree Wall, the ultimate issue is class, as many Marxists (and I say this without shame) successfully argue that race is the diversion that the ruling classes utilize to sway the masses from the real issues, wages, child care, health care etc. I'll refer to Marc's earlier posts about Obama, minority organizations taking corporate payoffs and immigration. It's a sign or moral cowardice that Woody (who I do think of as a blog friend) would leave such an incinderary post, but not want to debate - ie" I'm not going to argue about this". What is your fear Woody? Are you a bigot? Scared? Diversity has been completely co-opted by corporations who understand the larger picture. It's not just great PR, but it is also pragmatic. By 2030 whites will only make up % 50-60 of the population. If wages are supressed because the labor force (illegal immigrants, people of color, women) is deemed unworthy by the current majority (Hello Walmart) why would they along with working class/ poor whites unite to change the system? For all of Woody's and GM's whining, they are simply setting up their own descendants for failure. The Reps trot out Condi on 60 Minutes to people of color, desparate for acceptance. "I knew the little girls who got killed in Birmingham and it reminds me of what is happening in Iraq" What a perversion of history. What an acquiencence to immorality from the person who was shopping for $500 dollar shoes while people were drowning in NO. Because real estate is the last true bastion of hard core racism, "diversity" has been allowed to be sold in a non meaninful manner by corporations looking to make a buck. I agree Wall, the ultimate issue is class, as many Marxists (and I say this without shame) successfully argue that race is the diversion that the ruling classes utilize to sway the masses from the real issues, wages, child care, health care etc.

I’ll refer to Marc’s earlier posts about Obama, minority organizations taking corporate payoffs and immigration. It’s a sign or moral cowardice that Woody (who I do think of as a blog friend) would leave such an incinderary post, but not want to debate – ie” I’m not going to argue about this”. What is your fear Woody? Are you a bigot? Scared?

Diversity has been completely co-opted by corporations who understand the larger picture. It’s not just great PR, but it is also pragmatic. By 2030 whites will only make up % 50-60 of the population. If wages are supressed because the labor force (illegal immigrants, people of color, women) is deemed unworthy by the current majority (Hello Walmart) why would they along with working class/ poor whites unite to change the system? For all of Woody’s and GM’s whining, they are simply setting up their own descendants for failure.

The Reps trot out Condi on 60 Minutes to people of color, desparate for acceptance. “I knew the little girls who got killed in Birmingham and it reminds me of what is happening in Iraq” What a perversion of history. What an acquiencence to immorality from the person who was shopping for $500 dollar shoes while people were drowning in NO.

Because real estate is the last true bastion of hard core racism, “diversity” has been allowed to be sold in a non meaninful manner by corporations looking to make a buck.

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