The Talented Mister Sharpton [UPDATED]
Like million of other hooples — and not wanting to ignore the national zeitgeist– I briefly tuned into the Michael Jackson Death Marathon this morning and what I saw was a LOT of very talented performers. The likes of Smokey Robinson, Jennifer Hudson, Stevie Wonder, Lionel Ritchie and Magic Johnson are not to be sneezed at.
But even added together and multiplied several times, they are mere pikers compared to the Man With The Most Talent in the Room. I refer, of course, to the greatest parasite of all times, the very Reverend Al Sharpton.
What a genius. Really.
Here’s a guy:
Who was caught in an FBI drug sting and turned into an informant.
Who began his entire public career in riding the back of a racially-charged hoax.
Who ran a supposedly liberal Democratic presidential campaign which was, in reality, engineered by a notorious Republican dirty trickster.
Who is a master dead beat.
And, yet, there he was barging into a global TV audience of hundreds of millions. And met with applause instead of a barrage of rotten tomatoes.
That, my friends, is what I can unbridled, brute, raw, awesome talent. Huzzah!
Hats off to Al Sharpton.
On a related note. My new favorite blog (to which my daughter contributes), The Awl, has some great observations about today’s events. I particularly liked the re-publication of the chart below that puts into proper historic context the Reverend’s suggestion today that The Gloved One was personally responsible for the advancement of African-Americans in recent history.
UPDATE: My daughter went out to do a post-mortem on the funeral for The Awal. cruising by the Staples Center and then buzzing over to watch the hooples gathered at Jackson’s star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Take a read.
July 7th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
He was great in an episode of Boston Legal.
July 7th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
He wasn’t “caught in an FBI drug sting” Did you even read the link, Marc?
But I know: You figure his rep is bad enough that you don’t have to get your facts straight…
I sure hope your students don’t follow your example.
July 7th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
Let’s see BB:
Sharpton turns up in a video that features an undercover FBI agent posing as a cocaine dealer. Explain what part of that isn’t an FBI drug sting? Or if you prefer, a corruption sting, which includes and FBI agent posing as a drug dealer.
Anyway, Mister Buster, when we last left off, after repeated insults from you suggesting I am a media whore, I challenged you to reveal just how it is you make a pristine living in such a corrupt America. No answer from you yet. In the meantime, I’ll worry about my students all on my own, thank you very much.
You’ve got exactly 24 hrs to put up or get out of Dodge. I am getting VERY tired of you. You contribute absolutely nothing to these threads….and that’s with some pretty stiff competition. Tick tock.
July 7th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
Oh I dont know. Yes the good Reverend is basically competing for a job-the go to guy for black America– which for reasons that I don’t have time to get into doesnt exist, and he is more than a little bit of a charlatan. All true. That said, his politics are pretty much social democratic and as anyone who watched the Democratic primaries can tell you, he can more than handle himself during the debates. He won almost all of them in 2004 and makes mince meat of his opponents, while acting as the “left flank” of the Dem party. I gotta say that I like the Rev and have plenty of time for him.
As for his performance at Michael’s memorial, sigh, it was a bit much. If I wanted to think about it more I’d say that it reflected a very problematic tendency which roots an authentic “real” blackness in this gendered idea of a black male, embodied in this case in the very being of Michael, contrictions, paradoxes and all. Any attack on MJ is then portrayed as a kind of symbolic lynching as he has been particularly in the past few days been reclaimed by the black community. Like I said I find a lot of this troubling but to an extent I understand it so I give Al some slack. He is alright.
ps the memorial had some high points; Smokey bless him, Stevie Wonder just killing it, and surprisingly Brooke Shields.
pps okay now lets move on
July 7th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Something wrong with this site. I post here and it disapears only to then show up hours later. Is it just me or everyone. Maybe the MJ brouhaha on top of my role here guarding the left field has rankled our host
July 7th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
A thread back or so, someone brought up the word unctuous.
Very useful word to describe Mr. Sharpton.
July 7th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
ol’ al. i was laughing during his speech
“your daddy’s not weird.”
how strange to say that to MJ’s young children.
the only thing that “got me” during the whole tribute was the little girl crying at the end and that’s just because i can’t stand seeing any child in pain.
alright. MJs gone. let’s get back to news that actually affects the lives of people (actually i am sure they will find things to report about for weeks to come concerning the ol’ single gloved pop star)
but i’m officially tuning out
July 7th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
oh jesus christ. Sharpton is a con. Cons are cons no matter how far to the “Left” they are in debates. Sharpton is slime are most if not all of the people that participated in that spectacle on TV today. America is increasingly moving away from capitalist imperialism and towards being a straight up idiocracy. MJ is the perfect example! A useless week. The death of Mcnamara should have inspired lots of debates around his legacy. We missed out due to the death of a child molesting song and dance man.
Anyone that stands up and defends a guy who was rich enough to buy his way out of facing the consequences of exploiting numerous children is just plain gross.
Defending scum suckers like Sharpton let alone equating them with some sort of progressive or left wing politics will ensure that the Dems stay to the center. Good luck!!!
July 7th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
People who talk a good game, who can speak the “progressive” language can also be bad people. Not everyone on the center left is “good.” It is not black and white, all or nothing, Hall of Justice versus Legion of Doom.
Al is poison and should just go away once and for all.
July 7th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
We also missed out on what seems to be a sharp turn toward improved relations with Russia and a return to nuclear arms negotiations (no matter how limited). We continue to miss out on the dilemma in Honduras, the sharpening divide over health care reform, and the UNREAL California budget crisis (with the state issuing IOU’s which won’t be honored by banks past Friday and with several Golden State cities veering into literal bankruptcy). The good news is, indeed, learning that MJ wasn’t a weird father, that his young daughter loves her deceased Daddy and that CNN probably spent more resources (by far) on the Jackson show than on all the other above stories put together times five. What a shameful, shameful, day for the American news media.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:12 am
Is this the same Josh who a couple years back was posting nauseous articles by Hithchens/Berman et cetera arguing that the US armed forces were spreading liberal secular enlightment philiosophy in Iraq and those who argued otherwise were leftists aligned with facsitsa Islam and the dreaded multiculturalists. How exactly sis that turn out. While you were playing internet commando Sharpton was at least travelling across the country denouncing the war, so he’s one up on you in that sense, the tale of the tape says.
I also said that Sharpton is a charlaton but perhaps no more and probalby less than every single Congress person, establishment politician and our president whi are beholden to finance dollars orginting from big pocket special interests inclusing the nefarious military industrial complex. Compared to these cats as bad as Jesse and Al may be, trust me they come out lookinng like pearly clean grassroot saints.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:15 am
“We continue to miss out on the dilemma in Honduras”
What weasely language for what is coup and attempt to militarily remove a democratically elected president. Has Marc Cooper and Thomas Friedman ever been seen in the same room?
July 8th, 2009 at 12:23 am
“Sharpton is slime are most if not all of the people that participated in that spectacle on TV today.”
Dude are you saying the same of musical geniuses like Stevie Wonder and Smokey Robinson?
July 8th, 2009 at 12:59 am
not to mention marc, the media showed little attention to what is happening in china.
in a post modern world, what is the value of a life? how much media attention it gets.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:15 am
one must prioritize what is morally important and valuable to a people and then the reporting and media coverage should reflect that so that its citizenry is well informed.
then AFTER the important news has been discussed in detail, throw in some funk, weirdness, and sensational masturbation.
hell. i have a freaky side too.
July 8th, 2009 at 3:16 am
What weasely language for what is coup and attempt to militarily remove
Hey Ahmed, just a few posts back Marc talked about Honduras, called it a military coup and said it must be condemned. You posted to that thread about 12 times. Summer break must be doing a number on your memory.
July 8th, 2009 at 3:50 am
it’s almost comical how these things slip into vitriolic pedantry.
scientists say there’s only two percent difference in our genetics and that of chimps: which, among many other things in regards to that special “human” 2 percent, is where langauge emerged. i sometimes think our language is just a derivative and highly stylized verbosity of the hoots and howls and the screams of those chimps…
come to think of it, ol’ mj had a chimp. maybe this is can be a segue for us to talk about him again and describe how sweet he was to animals!
we all return to dust. he returned sooner to it than we.
next subject please.
July 8th, 2009 at 6:26 am
Marc – just a slight factual correction. Sharpton rode the Bernard Goetz and Howard Beach controversies in NYC into the limelight before Tawana Brawley. He was already pretty well established when he hijacked that mess – which exposed him as a pure demagogue, if anyone hadn’t already gotten it.
I think the key to Sharpton’s appeal is precisely why he must have been in his element at the Michael Jackson funeral. He’s got great entertainment skills and he’s shameless in his self-promotion. Probably the most interesting comment I ever heard about Al Sharpton was during the 2004 Democratic primaries when my mother, who was in her 90s and living in an apartment complex for seniors said that the old folks watching debates together really got a kick out of Al Sharpton more than the other candidates – presumably because he harked back to some of the classic firebrands and charlatans of American politics before the slick consultants took over. Whatever else you think of such guys, they’re riveting. Palin is obviously shooting for the “hockey mom” version of the same shameless, narcissistic, “I speak for you” bullshit – but she’s not as good at it as Sharpton.
July 8th, 2009 at 6:37 am
“I also said that Sharpton is a charlaton but perhaps no more and probalby less than every single Congress person, establishment politician and our president”
Ahmed – I’m afraid you’re descending into the same pit you objected to when someone complained about “most if not all” of the folks at the Jackson funeral being slime.
I can name at least several dozen folks serving in Congress who are nowhere near Sharpton in the shameless demoagogic charlatan sweepstakes – and to imply that Obama is equivalent to Sharpton is lazy and IMHO disgusting – it exposes your “crackpot left” flank, to put if bluntly. That’s “psycho talk”, as Ed Schultz would say. You’re running on empty in the wake of too much Michael Jackson fever…
July 8th, 2009 at 6:50 am
Re the Jackson service, I caught a couple of replays which balanced bona fide slime (Mariah Carey, Berry Gordy, Kobe Bryant) with decent folks at their worst (Stevie Wonder singing an utterly and atypically crappy song and Lionel Richie, typically crappy, trying to sing gospel and failing.) What I saw – which admittedly was a few minutes – was shit, even as these things go. Didn’t see Jennifer Hudson, who I like.
July 8th, 2009 at 7:09 am
“Hey Ahmed, just a few posts back Marc talked about Honduras, called it a military coup and said it must be condemned. You posted to that thread about 12 times. Summer break must be doing a number on your memory.”
Yes but in this thread it has been donwgraded to a dilemma. That strikes me as the kind of sliperry language Friedman and others would use. A bit like people who dont want to talk about the Israeli occupation calling it instead the middle east “problem” or Israeli/Palestinian “issue”
July 8th, 2009 at 7:20 am
It isnt totally related but this article by Chris Hedges who really is one of the country’s top journalist almost immediately came to mind after reading reg’s reply
http://www.truthdig.com/report/page2/20090420_wheres_rev_wright_when_you_need_him/
July 8th, 2009 at 7:31 am
“not to mention marc, the media showed little attention to what is happening in china.
in a post modern world, what is the value of a life?”
Obviously its that the media spent too much time on Jackson but to suggest that if he were not around Hondures, Iran, China and Russia would be handled in a way that actually informed us, is to be naive and to poccess a very superficial crituque of the mainstream press. Here’s Greenwald’s observation about how the “war of terror” legacy and our deminization of muslims has cut of out of really identifying wiht persecuted muslim minority in China
According to The New York Times this morning, violent clashes between Chinese government forces and Muslim Uighurs — that country’s long-oppressed minority — have left at least 140 people dead and close to 1,000 injured. This incident in Western China highlights an important fact about America’s “War on Terror.”
Just imagine if the Uighurs were a Christian — rather than Muslim — minority, battling against the tyrannical Communist regime in Beijing, resisting various types of persecution, and demanding religious freedom. They would be lionized by America’s Right, as similar Christian minorities, oppressed by tyrannical regimes, automatically are. Episodes like these — where a declared Tyranny like China violently acts against citizens with whom we empathize — are ones about which, in general, the American political class loves to sermonize.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/07/06/uighurs/
July 8th, 2009 at 7:34 am
Jeremiah Wright is a giant of integrity and theological complexity compared to Sharpton – at the minimum, Wright has built a congregation that serves a community in practical ways on a daily basis as the foundation of his reputation. It’s that, not the rhetorical overkill, that has won people’s respect – including Barack Obama’s when his sights and concerns were more limited. So I don’t get dragging Wright into the discussion, except in the example of his worst moments, such as at the National Press Club. Personally, those sermons don’t impress me very much – certainly not compared to the much richer sermons of a Howard Thurman or a Martin Luther King – and the years of reflexive applause and amens some of those guys seem dependent on tend to inflate egos and invite hubris more than humility. I don’t know Chris Hedges – don’t follow him – but I’d hate to see Jeremiah Wright sent to the UN to represent the US. That would be completely idiotic and a misapprehension of Wrights actual talents – as opposed to his unseemly penchant for grandstanding.
July 8th, 2009 at 7:46 am
I think the issue of China’s complex and interdependent relationship to the US has more to do the degree to which we ignor the Uighurs than their religion. When it served a defined US interest in the Balkans, we intervened on behalf of Muslim minorities. China is actually more repressive and imperial than Russia is right now, but it’s not in any defined interest – beyond the rhetorical stuff – to act on behalf of the Uighurs. I don’t think it matters much what the Christian Right thinks about any religious minority anywhere – we won’t boycott China or any such thing because of the dependency this country has carved out on their labor markets and their ability to buy our debt. That would hold true if the Uighurs were Christians, although there might be more inflamed rhetoric. The Christian Right can’t even come close to dictating foreign policy inititatives or defining broad national interests – all they are, which is bad enough, is a swing vote to be manipulated by more serious contenders like the neo-cons.
July 8th, 2009 at 7:54 am
Oh reg I dont know. I’ve been reading some backround this week about the treatment of the Uighur muslim minority and it seems to me quite comparable to Tibet, with the exception of course that there are no public campaigns around this issue, no Richard Gere and others, no grandstanding politicians taking up the cause. I do think this has to do with with not only a kind of rhetoric which was heightened during the “war on terror” but also a much broader orientalist legacy which has long framed the US’s understaning of “islam”
July 8th, 2009 at 7:58 am
“I don’t know Chris Hedges – don’t follow him”
He writes a regular column for Robert Sheers website, Truthdig, and was for many years the man at NYT covering the middle east. He is also the author of one of the best mediation on war by a war correspondent. Its one of my favorite book of all time “War is a force which gives us meaning”. You should be following him more closely
July 8th, 2009 at 8:10 am
For Al to say to Michael’s children at their father’s funeral “You’re daddy’s wasn’t weird”, for godsake Al. Of course they didn’t think he was weird, idiot. But now they’re wondering why your talking weird at their daddy’s funeral and making them cry.
If you didn’t think their daddy was weird Al, why mention it. Jeezus! There was only one really really weird dude there, and it wasn’t Michael…..this time.
I loved the short and touching and brave statement by Michael’s daughter. What ever else Michael was in this trouble life, he raised one find daughter. And she knows he was one fine father. What better legacy can one leave this world with.
July 8th, 2009 at 8:28 am
And one can safely surmise, imo, if Michael’s father had been a better one himself, Michael would not have spent a good part of his life trying to recapture the innocent childhood he was never allowed to have…by all accounts.
July 8th, 2009 at 8:30 am
‘recapture’ should be ‘recreate’.
July 8th, 2009 at 9:07 am
Ahmed – now that you mention the book, I remember hearing or reading an interview with him and he’s an interesting, smart guy.
July 8th, 2009 at 9:16 am
Re the Uighurs, you’re certainly right that being Muslim doesn’t especially help at this juncture but I’m betting a contingent of celebrities – perhaps the Tibet folks – is going to start dropping their names. I’ll admit I’d never heard of them before the couple of guys at Guantanamo got press…
July 8th, 2009 at 9:41 am
Is this the same Ahmed that praised the “Iraqi Resistance” as a legitimate force for liberation as opposed to a violent group of orthodox religious fanatics and gangsters? Of course it is!!! I wouldn’t expect less from someone who actually believes in a magical space god, no wonder you like Jackson.
I get it, just cause Sharpton agreed with you he is ok? Just cause you like Jackson’s music that makes the rest of the ignominy ok? I get it. You would make a great Stalinist.
July 8th, 2009 at 9:53 am
It would be impossible for you to dig up anything which would substanciate that crude and ultimately reductionist claim you’ve made, although Im sure that I wouldnt have any problems backing up mine. Enough said. Magical space gods? Go back to writing thise crude “anti capitalist” rants presumably form the desk of that indie record music industry desk. The unctuous and reductionist rants about “capitalist imperialism” coming from you are revealed for what they are–projected self loathing
July 8th, 2009 at 11:04 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T1E1aI95Ro
July 8th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
“You would make a great Stalinist”
But dude I am already a Marxist surrealist feminist who is not just anti something but pro-emancipation, pro-liberation waving no flags but making an exception for the Palestinians, although on occasion borrowing from my friend Max Blumenthal responding to our host, I would describe myself as a liberal Lennonnist
July 8th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
“Probably the most interesting comment I ever heard about Al Sharpton was during the 2004 Democratic primaries when my mother, who was in her 90s and living in an apartment complex for seniors said that the old folks watching debates together really got a kick out of Al Sharpton more than the other candidates – presumably because he harked back to some of the classic firebrands and charlatans of American politics before the slick consultants took over.”
A fascinating observation. For what it’s worth I think that Revered Al walks a fine line between being a demagogue, a race hustler and charlatan on one hand while also existing within the African American rhetorical tradition in which language and emotion is essentially mobilised in order to speak truth to power, and articulate the hopes and desires of the marginalised. Again, based mostly on watching him closely in 2004, I’s day his politics can be described, roughly, as social democratic.
Although they are both great speakers, Sharpton’s rhetorical style is much more rabble rousing than Obama – his appeal is to passion, not wonkery. I think that kind of style makes the bourgeoisie nervous, because they’re always nervous about the potential disruptiveness of the masses. Gotta keep them tranquilized and hopeless. Don’t get them fired up.
July 8th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
…’a Marxist surrealist feminist’.
you are a hoot, Ahmed.
Could you give an example of how that would translate into practical action?
where you stumble is when declaring flag waving an affront UNLESS its the Palestinian flag.
Ah, Ahmed. Bummer. I kinda liked you. But that one little remark kinda takes you off the map
As to Sharpton. He’s a huckster in the great American tradition of huscksters. They are the Tricksters.
And the Jackson spectacle is just now a global Bread and Circus feeding frenzy. Can we move on now?
No. Because no one wants to UNDERSTAND why this shit keeps recurring.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
“Ah, Ahmed. Bummer. I kinda liked you. But that one little remark kinda takes you off the map”
That’s alright you have not yet been forgiven for disrepecting the memory and commitment of the late Rachel Corrie, whose compassionate and dedicated parents now travel throughout the US educating Americans about the effects of our policies on a long and suffering people.
July 8th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
“where you stumble is when declaring flag waving an affront UNLESS its the Palestinian flag”
Is that where I stumble ms unctuous one? I like what angry arab says that he dislikes flags and he dislikes nationalism but for palestinians anything and everything. That statement usually positioned under a picture of young Palestinians defying their armed occupiers hit me, in an emotional sense. cheers, yo
July 8th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Some more dirt on Sharpton, circa 1994.
As part of his efforts to increase local control of NYC public schools in Harlem, he entered the middle-school on (I believe 134th/Lennox) with a TV crew filming and demanded office space for his staffers. The asst principal told him the school had a space shortage so Sharpton took his request to the black principal (who was obviously enthralled by his mere presence) and she subsequently obliged. As a result, several speech therapists, psychologists and special ed instructors (I was one) were moved down to a boiler room in the basement where many of the children were afraid to come due to the noise of the 19th century boilers. None of Sharpton’s staffers ever came to the school, the offices went unused for the rest of the school year but hey, Sharpton was on the six o’clock news that night.
July 8th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
josh.
go back to reading your hitchen’s book “the long short war” as your bible.
life and history is probably too nebulous for you.
take iraq. little josh, yes there are iraqi fascists and gansters. but wait. you said iraq? are we talking iraqi sunnis? shiites? and if we’re talking about shiites, are we talking about sadr’s followers or al sistani’s? WAIT. but there’s the kurds too…
wow thank you for really enlightening me about the nature of the iraqi resistance
and that they all are a
“violent group of orthodox religious fanatics and gangsters”
a little lesson for you if you don’t mind, try not to come off like an 18 year old kid who loves punk rock when you’re writing about a vast complex and multi facetted political struggle.
the sentence of yours that i quoted is only categorically true of the nihilistic al queda in iraq.
the rest my boy, might be a little more nuanced
July 8th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Hey Marc, re your update, your daughter’s writing has really improved over the past year or so.
July 8th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
“a little lesson for you if you don’t mind, try not to come off like an 18 year old kid who loves punk rock when you’re writing about a vast complex and multi facetted political struggle.
the sentence of yours that i quoted is only categorically true of the nihilistic al queda in iraq.
the rest my boy, might be a little more nuanced”
Nice Josh, rightfully, gets taken to class
July 8th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
The hyperbole of Sharpton is truly asinine. MJ broke the color bar? Nat King Cole had a television show more than a year before MJ was even sperm and ovum.
Louis Armstrong, Dorothy Dandridge, Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughan, Fats Waller, Andy Razaf, Duke Ellington, Billy Strayhorn, Count Basie, Ralph Bunche, W.E.B Dubois, Zora Neale Thurston, Lorraine Hansberry, the Nicholas brothers, Teddy Wilson, Sidney Poitier, the film “Island in the Sun”, Marian Anderson, Ralph Ellison, James Baldwin and countless others paved the road. All MJ did was ride on it.
The idea that MJ broke the color bar is more nonsense from the culturally and historically illiterate.
Ahmed at 11:04 a.m. I knew Miles Davis was done for when he covered Human Nature.
July 8th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
randy paul, don’t forget my girl nina simone.
that woman was pure beautiful fire.
July 8th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
Justin,
I did say countless others.
July 8th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Randy: if you wanna go WAY back, don’t forget Scott Joplin and Robert Johnson…
And then there’s (the aforementioned) Sammy Davis Jr., as well as Cab Calloway, Mahalia Jackson, Billie Holliday (Reg’s fave), Otis Redding, “Booker T.” Jones (Green Onions is one of my all-time favorite albums), Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Jimi Hendrix, Billy Preston… I’m sure we could go all night naming others…
July 8th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
Within the “countless others,” my vote goes to Sammy Davis, Jr. — A Michael Jackson tribute
…to a deserving man.
July 8th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
Oh, Ahmed. You are going bonkers. I can’t even begin to unravel the contradictions.
And one day we will finish the discussion about the points I was making about Rachel Corrie and the culture and history of the world that produced her and the context in which she lost her life.
You still insist on interpreting what I wrote about her as a smear on her and a cavalier attitude to Palestinians. Which means you have never read a fucking word I have written which has excoriated the Israelies and the descent of Jewry into the atavism of Neo Conservatism…among other things.
Can you say “nuanced”?
July 8th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
Marc alleges: “repeated insults from you suggesting I am a media whore.”
No dice, Marc. I directly refuted that. You’re no whore, at least not any more of one than any working person is. My view is that everyone but a few very talented artists are either parasites or prosititutes — but that, really, is neither here nor there.
My point all along has been that you are irresponsible as a journalist.
You present unproven allegations as fact and willfully distort — the latter as in the case of Sharpton.
More specifically, I’ve taken issue with the fact that you seem to believe that if a guy’s a crumb, you don’t have to be honest or ethical about reporting on him.
It ends up with people claiming anyone who demands simple accuracy in journalism is “defending” the attacked, e.g. Sharpton or Michael Jackson.
I’m not defending Sharpton, I’m defending the concept of honest, transparent, accurate journalism.
As for how I earn a living, if you can explain how in the world that’s relevant, I’ll be happy to bore your readers with a description. I’m neither ashamed, nor especially proud, of my job. I do think it’s sad, though, that you insist on styling criticism of your work as “insults” and proceed to maximum personalization…
July 8th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
anna. i would love to hear what you have to say about rachel corrie.
bunker buster, actually, if you look at….and can we get off the al sharpton bullshit and about things that actaully FUCKING matter…. if you look at marc’s reporting, thoughts, etc about el salvador, chile, iraq…they are anything but irresponsible. they are thought out. they are rational. they even, if i may dare say in this god forsaken world, have an edge toward caring about the plight of other people especially those people that “media whores” typically DON’T care about…whatever that term might mean.
who cares where you work. who cares if you are rich or poor. but when you have an opinion about a subject, stick to arguing about your opinion on the subject
and leave the argumentum ad hominem bullshit out….well for the most part. sometimes a person needs a good ass reaming.
but i don’t think marc is one of those people
July 8th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
Ok. Let’s have a little nuance for people who blow themselves up in busy squares because the people around them are of a different sect.
Justin you old bloated fart you, I have never read the book in question and frankly I do not much care much for have nuance in regards to the kooks who blow themselves up or kill others of different sects.
All religion is nihilistic so they are all a bunch of nihilism. While we are on the subject of nuance, do you old fat and bloated Justin, and our favorite pseudo intellectual Ahmed applies this nuance to US foreign policy? NOPE. You only apply it to “Iraqi resistance” and petafiles like Michael Jackson or good old Al Sharpton. All of these people somehow deserve nuance and a quick look the other way while when talking about the U.S. and the West, it is black and white.
The Iraq war was a mistake and will always be a mistake. The religious fanatics (apply your own nuance) who have a politics that is nothing short of reactionary, (certainly not Marxist, Feminist, or Progressive like old Al) have done NOTHING good for Iraq. All that blowing up of innocent people did NOT get the U.S. out any quicker. Not sure why old Ahmed thinks he has some sort of moral high ground on this for his loved resistance of fanatics, by the grace of god, did not have their day.
Iraq is a broken society that has been bombed and looted for over a decade. Hopefully the US will depart for good and let’s hope that the reactionary forces that old Ahmed and Justin hold so dear (again, apply your “nuance” all you want) will not gain power.
I know that a secular left wing party will not because none exists because phony space god believing charlatans like Ahmed have failed to show an ounce of solidarity to these near non-existent forces. Wanna see the failure of the left? Look at Iraq.
Sadly, Ahmed and the old fart Justin will have their day and he can apply the entire nuance they want to the thugs that battle for control of Iraq. You can smile and cheer at the blood that is spilled and apply your nuance till the cows come home!!!
July 8th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
Well, Bunkerbuster… allow me to drag this out one more round. Dispassionately, I will point out that on myriad occasions you have, in fact, trashed me as some sort of whore who collected my paycheck while running from a fight at L.A. Weekly (ha!). On other occasions you have pointedly suggested that I’m in journalism mostly for the money and am a lazy reporter (Fact check: 90% of my income now comes from teaching, not writing).
So….it is DAMN relevant that you disclose how you make it through this world without your integrity tarnished by your employer. WHich are you, by your own words? Parasite? Or prostitute? (Holy hell, that’s what you think MOST people are?) So tell us why it is you haven’t organized a workers’ council wherever the hell it is that you work, instead of allowing such naked exploitation of your fellow workers to continue unabated?
This is your last chance, compadre. And then….flush.
Ahmed… nice try with that little anecdote about the Old Ladies cheering on Al Sharpton. In my life, I’ve seen lots and lots of nice old ladies and young ones too and people of color and what have you cheer on all sorts of blowhard demagogues, dictators and fascists. Al Sharpton is none of those things. Nor is he a “social democrat.” He’s a two bit hustler and huckster.
July 9th, 2009 at 1:51 am
marc stop. i hope that you had a few drinks in you when you reaponded to them.
they ain’t worth responding to.
imagine hegel or goethe responding to these pedants.
for me personally, keep reporting on local la issues. to be honest with you,
i am a fucking fool when it comes to local issues.,
it’s like my little mind can’t circle around such things.
i remember when you helped expose the union based upon cesar chavez…on a funny note i lost a girl friend over what you said about chavez..
there are fanatics on both sides. lol. even a girlfriend isn’t worth the truth
just keep reporting the way you do, i can’t believe you actually get upset over these things..
well what should i call them..
“unique people” that respond to your site.
i am sure that you probably don’t like him but norman finkelstein…he began a debate with alan dershowitz…and it annoyed me. except for the fact that i worked 5 years to get a BS in bio and what we were always taught is that a debate could not begin until sources were shown to be true and accurate..
i mean in biology, they get mean if your sources are not accurate.
so him vs dershowitz
i understood it. what did you think about that debate marc?
hey.
how in a pragmatic way, even if both parties agreed, would they split the two terrorities in a way where both parties would be half way happy?
al sharpton.,…
how about that question?
July 9th, 2009 at 7:18 am
I like BB’s comments in general, but it is rude and over the top to come into someone else’s abode and accuse them of whoring, in their on profession no less, then expect no consequences. I know BB thinks he didn’t do this and was taken wrongly, but I did read it as Marc took it BB.
I wish BB would just do the right thing and appologize to Marc for insulting him, on several occasions, and stay around. Marc is very tolerant of others views on his blog. I should know.
The least he can expect for that is not to be taken for granted and attack him personally when we disagree with him.
July 9th, 2009 at 9:08 am
For what it’s worth one of the reasons that I kept going at the MJ story wasn’t that I thought Marc had no right to be unmoved or that I disagrred with him that the media speactacle was absurd. That’s fair enough. No it was the repetitive snarkyness as if everytime he mentioned MJ it signified how more mature, sane and intelligent he was compared, I suppose, to the stupid, celeb crazed masses. It’s that attitude of superiority, pompously boasting to be “above it all” that I’ve seen so much of on the left. And it doesn’t help
July 9th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Marc – I disagree with you on Sharpton. He is too a “blowhard demagogue.” Also I think his political agenda is pretty much social democratic, but it’s long been wrapped in a bunch of opportunistic race hustling so policy points don’t much matter in his world. I actually thought he handled himself during the Obama campaign much better than Jesse Jackson. I was expecting more of a train wreck. I know…low bar and all that. But his recent performance at the Jackson funeral restores my faith in his authenticity as a – to use your formulation – huckster and hustler. For a while there he’d started to worry me…
July 9th, 2009 at 10:25 am
“All religion is nihilistic”
That pronouncement is just plain weird.
July 9th, 2009 at 10:37 am
“because phony space god believing charlatans like Ahmed”
This is the second time the space god thing was brought up and I still don’t get it? Am I missing something, what is this kid getting at? Maybe the name Ahmed has him confused for Farrrakhan who I think believes some strange stuff about aliens, space and the white man. Can someone help me out.
Josh also grossly inflates my own importance. Let him start his own thread dedicated to uncovering who is the greater charlatan Rev Al or me, Ahmed!
July 9th, 2009 at 10:43 am
“frankly I do not much care much for have nuance in regards to the kooks…..”
It’s not really nuance that Justin is calling you on. He was just saying what would be obvious for anyone readign through your blather. You just thrown out a bunch of stuff, like rhtetorical terms, a kind of Hitchens for dummies, without making so much of an effort to even find out or read anything about the history, identity and politics of the country (iraq) that you’re describing. Ironically, you end up being a mirror reflection of the grotesque, shortcutting, lazy and ignorant archeotype American society which you pretend to critique. In reality bro, these are your people
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-23-2009/jason-jones–behind-the-veil—ayatollah-you-so
July 9th, 2009 at 10:55 am
“who is the greater charlatan Rev Al or me, Ahmed!”
I can only speak from my own point of view, but Al Sharpton has never – I repeat NEVER! – called the dog Sergio out on me…
July 9th, 2009 at 11:09 am
“Ahmed… nice try with that little anecdote about the Old Ladies cheering on Al Sharpton.”
Are you confusing me with reg. The anecdote came form him not me
July 9th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Ahmed lordy!!! Listen to this guy. At the same time that you seek some humility about your impact (yes you are a total hack), and then you throw out some judgments about “gross stereotypes.”
Yes Iraq clearly has a complicated ethnic and religious history that is greatly complicated by Western imperialism from both colonization and neocolonization and neocon bombardment. In acknowledging this history, do I need to have a nuanced view of the kinds of violence that the various sects (with complicated histories) impose upon the people of Iraq and each other? Does the complicated history legitimize this violence? Should this complicated history somehow force me to conflate these sects with some sort of “progressive” form of resistance?
The violence did not subside due to altruism or patriotism, rather due to dirty dealing with the U.S. So the glorious resistance that Ahmed celebrated with triumphantly actually ended up working with the Evil Empire in the end. What does that say about the character of these “noble” groups?
If anyone is reducing things Ahmed, it is you. U.S. bad, ANY group that appears to be some form of “resistance” is good. If it appears to be a resistance movement that opposes the U.S., it is worthy of support . Then you project “progressive” politics onto these reactionary forces. Just like you do with Al. It is a non-thinking, robotic way of operating.
You didn’t have the capacity to HONESTLY address the barbarism of these thugs nor do you have the imagination to construct a vision of the kind of politics or society they create if they had the chance. While you have this left wing pose, when push comes to shove you will easily support reactionary thugs. Is it possible that both sides in this horrible conflict are bad? Or that one bad one is slightly better than the other?
Gosh Ahmed, you are just a parody of a grade inflated pseudo left wing intellectual. More marginalized and irrelevant than ever.
July 9th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Not like it matters but I’ve never expressed such a carricature type on Iraq or anywhere else in the world for that matter and since this blog is archieved Im sure you could look this up. You don’t even try to substanciate anything you say in that weird, wild and incoherant rant you put out. Odd. Since it is so weird much like your participation in this thread, I’ve decided to compile a short, best of Josh list, featuring the wild, the swinging, the nonsensical and incoherant. Here we go, son
“It is not black and white, all or nothing, Hall of Justice versus Legion of Doom. ”
“I wouldn’t expect less from someone who actually believes in a magical space god”
“All religion is nihilistic so they are all a bunch of nihilism”
“You would make a great Stalinist”
July 9th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Josh Pot calling Ahmed Kettle, black:
Yes Iraq clearly has a complicated ethnic and religious history that is greatly complicated by Western imperialism from both colonization and neocolonization and neocon bombardment. In acknowledging this history, do I need to have a nuanced view of the kinds of violence that the various sects (with complicated histories) impose upon the people of Iraq and each other? Does the complicated history legitimize this violence? Should this complicated history somehow force me to conflate these sects with some sort of “progressive” form of resistance?
The violence did not subside due to altruism or patriotism, rather due to dirty dealing with the U.S. So the glorious resistance that Ahmed celebrated with triumphantly actually ended up working with the Evil Empire in the end. What does that say about the character of these “noble” groups?
Oi. Josh. None of that shit woulda gone down if the US hadn’t stormed into Baghdad ripping the infrastructure in two and the limbs and heads off a great many members of the population. The appoint a scum sucking wack job like Bremmer to really stoke the flames of hatred by sacking the entire police force leaving them jobless AND ARMED rather practicing a little of the tactics and humanity invoked by both the Brits in how they treated German POWS housed in the UK and the very deliberate effort and salvaging the German population after the war rather than further give cause to another holocaust fed by more resentments.
The Iraqis…oh never mind. Your lunatic after the horse has bolted from the barn mediation of the “complexities” in Iraq starts from the point that denies the invasion and ripping to shreds of the country and the outright, documented pronouncement by an officer or two as the first forces landed declaring they weren’t there to save or liberate anyone but to get the fucking oil.
July 9th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
You’ve got exactly 24 hrs to put up or get out of Dodge. I am getting VERY tired of you. You contribute absolutely nothing to these threads
As opposed, apparently, to Woody. Marc doesn’t ban people for not contributing anything useful, or for attacking other commenters mercilessly, being disruptive, and turning his comments page into a circus to the point where he threatens to shut it down entirely — he only bans people for criticizing his personal integrity. That’s his right, of course, but it says a lot about him … and his personal integrity.
July 9th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Anna defending Ahmed (whom she earlier said was going bonkers) against Josh … gotta love it, and right on.
July 9th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Anna,
Iraq wasn’t a mess prior to the US invasion? Really? Far from Utopia.
The US invasion only made a horrible situational all the worse.
An absence of Western imperialism does not equal utopia. Human being are subject to the same flaws. It is pretty universal.
The US invasion is cynical yes indeed. But the religious, ethnic, and tribal conflicts that haunt that region (and most of the world mind you) might not always be directly related to the war. I guess I am a big more nuanced and tend to believe that too much credit is given to the U.S. for stoking sectarian conflicts. Tribalism and religion if taken seriously are powerful forces and create conflict on their own.
July 9th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Ahmed, you forgot to mention your radical pedigree. You like to drop that every once in a while.
July 9th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Josh get a grip, boy.
How does what I say equate to Iraq being a Utopia prior to the US smashing it literally to bits?
Does everything have to be ex plah ainnnneDDDDD.
Even under that rat fuck Saddam there was an infrastructure. I mean there was water, electricity, phones, food– when the US wasnt fucking flow with sanctions, and peoples houses werent a pile of rubble. THey just lived in fear of their lives. Ha ha.
So in bops the US and literally smashes all civil infrastructure, refuses to hire Iraqi professionals, sets loose a huge police force– armed. Many of whom would have probably been just as happy to do their mean little police thing as all policemen do under a less repressive regime and would have forgotten the hairy one.
Given that the US occupation under Bremmer fucked up an already unbearable civil situation and set loose a horde of utterly untrained stupid savages in the use of private security forces that alienated everyone. Compounded with no medical, food, blazing heat, no supplies, your house is in rubble and your child has been blasted in two….Gee wouldnt it be easy for utter chaos to ensue fueled by the hatred now of the occupiers who have only brought death and destruction on a massive scale, sacked their cultural heritage artifacts.
Do I have to go on, you moron? There is nothing worse than these smug sit back and jerk off in my LA living room and spew nonsense about how people behave under siege. Ever watch the Katrina show? You fucking stupid moron.
Try THINKING
July 9th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
It’s as if Marc’s NPUT (new post up top) doesn’t even exist.
July 9th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Marc: Your protest against being labeled a whore doesn’t wash for at least two reasons: 1. I consider whoring legitimate work — no better, no worse than journalism. And what I do — what most of us do — for a living is not necessarily morally superior to what prostitutes do. It would be meaningless and silly for me to call you a whore, and the record shows clearly I never used any word resembling that. The inferences are yours, not mine.
Secondly, I made a very different point about the tension between your roles at LAW and as a freelancer. My point was simply that you had every opportunity to INVEST your talents in securing LAW’s future. You chose — seemingly wisely — not to do that. Instead, you invested your talent elsewhere. That doesn’t make you any less of a professional journalist. It probably makes you more of one, on the whole. But it should limit your scope for criticizing others who similarly chose to hedge their bets on the LAW. It seems to me that you expected the paper’s owners to put their full faith and credit into LAW, whereas you were smart enough not to.
Marc asks: “Which are you, by your own words? Parasite? Or prostitute? (Holy hell, that’s what you think MOST people are?) So tell us why it is you haven’t organized a workers’ council wherever the hell it is that you work, instead of allowing such naked exploitation of your fellow workers to continue unabated?”
I am most definitely a type of prostitute, in that I provide a service that I would not choose to provide without pay. Sure, there are parts of my job I enjoy and, even, take some pride in, but that needn’t distinguish me from the typical strumpet.
Almost all the exploitation at my workplace is mutual, in that myself and my colleagues exploit my employer’s wealth and stability, while the company exploits our talent and need for steady income. Hence I’m no parasite. There’s no need, in my view, for any worker’s council, as my employer is enlightened enough and focuses on carrot rather than stick. That could change, of course, at which point a council, or union, may well be worthwhile.
As for my integrity being “tarnished” by my employer, that does happen, to a degree. I am sometimes compelled to contribute to a product I feel doesn’t meet the ideals I’d like to live up to. Then again, prior to this job, I was doing similar work, but running the show and, even more often, I was compelled to be involved with a product that I was not 100 percent pleased with.
Lastly, I still don’t see how my work has anything to do with whether it’s OK to print inaccuracies about Sharpton and Michael Jackson.
July 9th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Anna,
Oh. So you equate the behavior of Ahmed’s glorious resistance with the entire population that is “under siege?”
I actually don’t. Some nuance here.
The thugs that Ahmed and you claim are a left wing “resistance” force do NOT represent the general population of Iraq. Maybe you and Lord Ahmed are convinced that is the case. Rather they are a small group of thugs that are
Many populations that are under seige or repressed are not vile sectarian groups.
Iraq may have had infrastructure that the US greatly damaged through a decade of bombing. Lots of roads and palaces to be used by Saddam. The “resistance” has done just about everything it can to destroy what is left and blow up anything that might be built, like schools.
Anna, I do not feel that you can speak for life “under siege” anymore than anyone else. The truth is that humanity is haunted by tribalism and religion and that deserves plenty of blame.
Pathetic sentimentalist lefties might think Iraq was whole and that the mess the U.S. created is the sole cause of the sectarian and tribal violence, I disagree.
July 9th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
The only thing pathetic, Josh, is that you sit back and spew your clap trap based on not one shred of humanity. The reason I am driven to rant on this blog is because there is a common tone to most all who post here— just the most endless regurgitation of political theory sucked out of every glassy rag and broadsheet as opposed to just sitting back and feeling the pain and deducing something from whatever might be left of you that is human.
You blanketing reality with your smug little little little weeny knowledge of the real world or experience and then building a whole construct that sweeps aside the most screechingly obvious human suffering…making assumptions that every Iraqi is somehow deserving of their wretched fate because you…YOU sniveling little been know where felt nothing know nothing little white boy SEZ so.
You just love flinging around the words “sectarian” and “tribal”. Make you get hard?
I would love to sit back and watch a fucking bomb fall on your house, squash your family and then watch you squirm for survival when you can’t pick up the phone and call 911 or get water or find food because whatever you knew as civil society has been decimated. And this is after trying to stay alive under a dictator that the same assholes set up and are now deciding to take down say they can steal your country’s biggest natural resource.
You know NOTHING. You are the one stuck in a sectarian rut as everything you call a thought is just a sausage ground out by your right wing little sausage grinder that passes for a brain.
July 9th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
For what its worth my own views on Iraq and the forces at play during the occupation were more through reading the Robert Fisks, Patrick Cockburns and Dahr Jamails than Ramsey Clark’s but Josh is evidently not a very serious person. I also feel that those in this country who mobilised to fight against the war, evedn those who Josh’s man called “fat slobs” are in some ways responsible for the marginalisation of the neo cons and the lessening of a chance that the US will strike Iran, which would have been a disastor for the movment we see in the street now. And Josh, you’re so concerned about democratic freedom and rights in the middle east that I suppose yu advocate and speak up for the Palestinians? I didnt think so…..
July 9th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
“The thugs that Ahmed and you claim are a left wing “resistance” force”
WTF are you talking about. Can you find these claims I have never in my life called any of the rather unsavory factions in Iraq a “left wing resistance force” Substanciate this fool
July 9th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
“An absence of Western imperialism does not equal utopia. Human being are subject to the same flaws”
Could you be any more obtuse, is it possible for you to speak in, hmmm, any more generalities. Dude go to the library read some books, refine your thinking and then come back here. If thats too much effort stick around LA music scene, just choose another place to project all that self loathing. peace
July 9th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
I’ve just read through Anna’s responses to the resident moron Josh, and for once I appreaciate her. Pitch perfect reoly to such a weasel
July 9th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
Right wing!!! WOW. Anna oh dear. If you support the “resistance,” you are supporting some rather reactionary people. You care not to investigate the beliefs of these people do you? Again. Nuance. If one does not support Ahmed or your delusional beliefs that the thugs blowing up innocent people than they are right wing? It is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time meaning oppose US imperialism and horrible sectarian groups. Looks like YOU need some nuance.
The US is capable of horrible things. Iraq is an example. The sectarian groups that blow up other innocent Iraqis are equally disgraceful. It is possible to strongly oppose both forces.
Yes Ahmed 100% support Palestinian freedom and self-determination. Israel is a state based on ethnicity and religion and despite the historic injustice that has been done to European Jews, that does not justify the behavior of Israel. I would rather have a 1 state solution where Palestinians and Israelis lived together in a secular democratic state. Thanks to both sides that will not happen so the 2 state solution will have to do. Ahmed throwing out that question points is telling though…
It is simple. Not obtuse at all. The thugs in Iraq that you praise as a resistance force are not necessarily a creation of the United States bankrupt policy towards Iraq. They are in fact a product of the complex history of Iraq and the Middle East. You dearest Ahmed have convinced yourself that only if the U.S. and the West were to stop meddling in the affairs of others, then poof!!! Peace and tranquility would consume the Middle East and everyone would love one another, amen.
Well, the U.S. should stop meddling in the affairs of others. Yet when the meddling ends, we will not necessarily have a progressive utopia. A force has to fill the void. I would love to see global capitalism collapse once and for all but sadly, no alternative is in place if it did.
Thanks to a generation of psuedo intellectuals like you, their is NO real alternative. Their is no imagination of something other than neoliberalism. The likes of you continue to come under the spell of the Sharptons or some phony 3rd world radicalism. Need not look all that far Ahmed, yes the NLR actually praises Hugo Chavez in its pages.
The truth is that Western Capitalism and Imperialism are as bankrupt as communism in 89 yet no viable alternative exists. So Ahmed, you arrogant goon you, pat yourself and your fellow “scholars” on the back and thank yourself for nothing.
I don’t live in LA dude. Not sure what you are talking about.
July 10th, 2009 at 6:50 am
anna stop listening to josh
or responding to him
homo sapiens is a very funny thing.
i am still curious what you had to say about rachel corrie.
July 10th, 2009 at 8:17 am
“# jim hitchcock Says:
July 9th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
It’s as if Marc’s NPUT (new post up top) doesn’t even exist.”
I just emailed Woody and we’ve agreed – since we’ve been shut out of this thread – to turn that relatively empty comments section into a death match…there will be blood. These folks are amateurs.
July 10th, 2009 at 8:19 am
“Thanks to both sides that will not happen so the 2 state solution will have to do. ”
It’s like you’ve puit yourself in a time capsule, sealed yourself off from eveything that’s been happenning post, oh, say Oslo and have refused to even bother to find out about the actual “facts on the ground”, the extent to which a “two state solution” has been made an impossible with the further growth of Israeli settlements which doubled post Oslo years, the chocking of any viable Palestinian economy and political soverreignty (referred to as “politicide” by a brilliant and now deceased Israeli sociologists) and the routine violence aimed precisely to destroy civil society. Saying you are for a “two state solution” withoujt engaging in all of this, is to imply that you might be okay with a banstustan like existence for Palestinians and its fucking to speak in horrid generalities. More so Palestinians have had bad leadership but they are a people occupied, under conditions we could not imagine, the great Max Blumenthal was writing the other week of th routine imprisonmnent and killing of Plaestinian non villent protestors who are mobilising in bi’lin against the “wall” which is illegal and going through there communities. These killings are never reported i n major US media, so the struggle no matter how it is conducted ends up being marginalised.
Your game was fucking revealed in that lazy and awful line that “both sides” are ayt fault as if that makes any sense here. That’s enough with you
http://maxblumenthal.com/2009/07/neda-in-palestine-sentenced-to-die-alone/
July 10th, 2009 at 8:21 am
Yes Anna. Do not listen to any disagreement whatever. Your mind is made up, and it is right…uh left, by golly. In this way, you never have to live in a world with those knuckle dragging homo’s.
This little run of back and forths between Josh vs Ahmed and Anna, is here Ahmed and Anna have some one who agrees the US sucks, the Iraq war sucks, and the US is an imperialist pig, but is is good for Iraq that the US wins here.
But, hell. Josh is just not left of left enough. He has to denounce all war for whatever reason. War is bad, peace is good. That’s it. Don’t confuse me with useless reality.
What has passivism ever done for the world Anna. What has passivism ever done for people brutalized by actual brutes in the history of the world Anna? What human soul has ever been set free by your ideals Anna?
No nation is perfect, but there are some nations more perfect than others. Then on very rare occasions in the history of mankind, that innate longing in mankind to be free from the tyranny of totalitarianism that breeds brutes, gets lucky and a nation powerful enough and ‘good’ enough to stand up to tyrants and brutes total disrespect for mankind, arises to stand up and really fight for them. Greece was the beginning, the US is the current evolution of this rare phenomena.
Regardless of the original motives the US has gone to war, it has always been to defend either itself or to stop the spread of a totalitarian brute’s power by its attack on another nation.
The US frees or keeps free other people Anna with its own blood and treasure. Name one person your passivism has ever freed from in a world dominated by dictators and brutes? Let me answer that, because you will not admit it. ZERO!
Your kind is fine with letting mankind rot in hell as long is no man has to die trying to free or be free.
July 10th, 2009 at 8:28 am
“Need not look all that far Ahmed, yes the NLR actually praises Hugo Chavez in its pages.”
And without saying that I support him a hundred per cent as my critque is mostly grounded in not liking cult of personalities and demogogic leadership, but for the most part, all things considered, I, too, like and support Hugo Chavez but not as much as my man Evo in Bolivia who really seems interested in a whole different kind of poltics which starts from empowering the social movements and building politics bottom up. Now there is a leader I like.
Okay, I’ve given this troll too much of my time
July 10th, 2009 at 8:30 am
“No nation is perfect, but there are some nations more perfect than others.”
Kind of like Orwell’s four legs thing. In fact, I think humanity has finnally found a worthy succesor for the author of “animal farm” and its you-Josh!
July 10th, 2009 at 8:45 am
Oops that was Jim R a fellow fan of the gloved one who should really know better than to write all that nonsense. I’ve never reduced say that US to some carricature which you acsribe to me. And then we get this
“Regardless of the original motives the US has gone to war, it has always been to defend either itself or to stop the spread of a totalitarian brute’s power by its attack on another nation.”
Hmmmm, ask Marc about his experience in Chile, or how about those three million corpses in Vietnam, or democratic governments like Irans in 1953 which were overthrown because they sought to nationalise their economy and the list goes on. The world, too, is a little more complicated than you imagine. And, yes the desire once one accumulates power, to dominate does not start nor does it end in the US, its part of all of us and must be fought against. Dude, its human nature
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgmbYALa0no&feature=related
July 10th, 2009 at 9:04 am
ps just like Marc’s daughter, Katha Pollitt’s kin blogs too!
http://sanseverything.wordpress.com/2009/07/10/hidden-in-plain-sight/
July 10th, 2009 at 11:30 am
ps Something for troll indie music industry, faux political commentator Josh to think about
“More to the point, the lessons that McNamara tries to draw from his life have real urgency. In Iraq today, we see once again an American military led by arrogant technocrats who have little feeling for foreign cultures. Just as McNamara couldn’t have imagined that the Vietnamese were motivated by patriotism, Donald Rumsfeld is fecklessly stirring up the hornet’s nest of Arab nationalism. While Americans are often proud patriots, they have a hard time understanding that other peoples also have a sense of national self-worth.”
http://sanseverything.wordpress.com/2009/07/06/mcnamara-the-managerial-revolution/
July 10th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Jim I can hear the Star Spangled Spastic swooning in the background as you type that absolute tosh.
You sad fuck. Nothing is just a human issue for you. You can never imagine yourself—as most potato faced Americans can’t–in any other situation but your own. You are a zenophobic, ignorant freak.
Nothing I wrote had anything to do with Right or Left. Only right and wrong.
Your pathetic ignorance of history and politics just makes you a typical American fuck wit. Drooling about America and its mythology. God where do you idiots get this shit. Are you injected with it in the womb?
The only thing you know about Greece is all those dirty little pictures on the urns in picture books.
God, you missed your era you belong right there with the Nazi’s. I can see your glistening little corneas twinkling in the klieg lights of Nuremberg now as some guttural voiced thug reads your little pean to Amer i kuh:
No nation is perfect, but there are some nations more perfect than others. Then on very rare occasions in the history of mankind, that innate longing in mankind to be free from the tyranny of totalitarianism that breeds brutes, gets lucky and a nation powerful enough and ‘good’ enough to stand up to tyrants and brutes total disrespect for mankind, arises to stand up and really fight for them. Greece was the beginning, the US is the current evolution of this rare phenomena.
July 10th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
I bet you have wet dreams about Sarah Palin.
July 10th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
And I am sure you would have been on the bridge in Gretna shooting at the sick, dying, dehydrated, suffering, heat prostrate, traumatized citizens desperate for refuge and water tried to come into your little white high ground community.
Ah yes, thats the image of a perfect America no country can touch that is good and stands up to tyrants. Yes, the one that has put more tyrants into power than ever in the history of the world and has with absolute malice inflicted more intentional suffering than any nation in the history of the world.
Was it Westmoreland who was kicked out or sent away…the one who exhorted during Viet Nam to get them by the balls and their hearts and minds would surely follow.
When were you ever threatened by a Viet Namese person, Jim? Other than if you were over there trying to kill him.
July 10th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
You have all the information in the world at your fingertips yet all you can muster is to regurgitate the jingoism of a Fox news fuckcaster.
July 10th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Nothing is more fun that watching Anna and Ahmed and now Justin wig out!!! Anna, you are foaming at the mouth.
July 10th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Ahmed, you comment on this board way more than I do making you a troll. You also take comment that poor saps write on other sites and cross compare. TROLL!!!
Finish this off by mentioning your radical pedigree. Let’s hear the resume while we are at it.
July 10th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
For what its worth all that yelling, swearing, ranting about Nazis and then the odd comment about Jim R having wet dreams about Palin is odd. It’s the reason that no matter how much, in one sense I may agree with Anna, I find her style and delivery bizarre and unhinged. Sorry Anna its the truth although thanks for sticking up for me.
As for Legere, of course he cant even bother to engage with my comments so he throws out some names. Again this is the same fool who sebveral years back was regurgitating eveything Berman and Hitchens wrote about Iraq into placard type dogmas and calling those who disagree with him fascists, islamofacists, stalinists and the like. Le plus ca change, le plus c’est le meme.
I still dont understand either the radical pedegree or “space gods” thing. Weird as is he seeming obsession with me
July 10th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
Ahmed, I write down to the level I am addressing.
The monumental sterility of content and rata tat tat of recitation of regurgitated opinion pieces rather than actually having a human or interesting take on a situation causes me to just want to splat in the comments box.
Objectively its a female sensibility coming up against the most dull, arm chair, skewed masculine sensibility. Just a lot of blah, blah without any feeling to it.
I have never seen so much evidence of such scary compartmentalized “thinking”. Very linear. So I like to be as intuitive, sloppy and outrageous as possible.
And your commenting on “swearing” is what is the most telling and makes me rest my case. The chauvinism rampant on this thread you could scrape off with a shovel. The comment about swearing is hilarious. That phony umbrage is the sure sign of a real control freak and shit.
Lewis Black had a riff on the hypocrisy of those who think swearing isnt a legitimate form of self expression.
But of course you wouldn’t watch Lewis, or Pryor, or Murphy or…gee every stand up that was worth his salt and actually funny– because they say FUCK.
Find me another word that so beautifully defines the hideous and venal.
I guess you don’t have the sense of irony to appreciate a chapter in one of Hunter Thompson’s books titled: Jesus Loves Bald Pussy.
July 10th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Or the sensitivity to understand the pure sense of outrage and genuine passion–the kind that idiot Josh or Jim drools about in what they think patriotism is– that caused him to coin such a title in the first place. Understanding subtext goes a long way in actually understanding anything.
July 10th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
Anna
Would u mind taking down the ad hominem and the venon down a few degrees? Please. It makes for very unpleasant reading.
That said, the “tolerance” you and Ahmen show for a dissenting view, from the left like that of Josh is really a tad too much.
The U.S. has a bllody record of imperialism and is responsible for much suffering. The Soviets, meanwhile, offed about 20 million foks, Mao and the Chinese dinosaurs are right up there with the same numbers (not to mention the noxious support China currently offers to a motley crew of third world dictators). In Iraq, the U.S. has unleashed hell. Or better said, has aggravated hell. But when some deluded friggin zealot of the “resistance” blows up 60 innocent people with a random car bomb the victims are just as dead as those killled by an American air strke.
Ok, now you can start calling me filthy names too, But it sure is FUCKING boring! And by the way, I just read Lewis Black’s book today so all I can say is fuck them all.
July 11th, 2009 at 1:30 am
“said, the “tolerance” you and Ahmen show for a dissenting view, from the left like that of Josh is really a tad too much. ”
Marc give me a break. Reread Josh’s post its full of all kinds of attacks against me, that I support kooks, that I believe in space gods, that define all resistance to US imperialism as glorious, et cetera and not one of these claims are substnaciated nor did he engage with anything I wrotte. Tolerence, my friend, goes both way, n’est pas?
July 11th, 2009 at 1:39 am
Btw, I know it’s an issue of definitions but I would hardly say Josh’s inherant rants represent a dissenting view for the “left”.
July 11th, 2009 at 5:44 am
Was it in “Bruno” or an earlier masterpiece that Sasha Baron Cohen cons his way into a meeting with an actual terrorist and tells the guy that Osama bin Laden needs to shave and clean up, as he looks like a “homeless Santa Claus.”
That line alone is the worth the price of admission — cubed.
July 11th, 2009 at 6:05 am
he first says: you look like a “dirty Wizard”.
Got that from the trailers running on tv.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:06 am
Marc, how could you assume that because I critique the US–or rather make a point by simply pointing out the THE HISTORICAL FACTS–that I am blind to human nature and that war, killing, greed, stupidity and venality are attributes only the US demonstrates, refines into an operational tool and then inflicts upon the rest of the world?
You also show your colors by assuming I am some alien from the Left side of the galaxy. My whole rave and rant about all you guys is that you label and judge everything as being either Left or Right. THAT Herr Cooper is what is BORING.
I see the dilemma as one of the slow, violent crawl up from the slime. The ever present human problem.
When I react to the stupidity of a Josh or Jim in their sterile little world view of how say IRAQ and its destruction came to be I am simply reminding them of the FACTS. We were NOT discussing Russia, the RUssian character, Stalin or the fact Russia was the last feudal society into the 20th Century with a goofy Czar who could whimsically do whatever. We were not discussing the crushing filth, poverty and horror of the 19th Century; the technological advances that eclipsed the human factor and became the carrot and the stick that has driven the West into the hole that it now finds itself dragging the rest of the world down into it.
I made the fatal error of assuming there were a few facts that could be accepted as a baseline reality for any discussions on this thread. Like: given half a chance human beings will act badly. And do. Climate, geography and the cultures that are shaped by those two only dictate how the venality manifests. The Germans were considered the most civilized of people…
I have lived in 7 different countries, Marc. I think I get it about how different cultures behave and the lessons of history. I also have a pretty good grasp of the what the Myth of America is. I understand the poignancy of it in ways you and the rest of this gang have NEVER demonstrated. Especially the reactionary rotters who like to continually demonstrate what is the worst of America while claiming to pimp for what they think is “great”.
And until Americans take responsibility for what is done in their name–as most other European citizens have…and states in Africa and other places–this country cannot fulfill its destiny. America is still a work in progress.
My disgust and fury is at the magnitude of Josh or Jim’s Star Spangled Stupidy about the horror of what people endure in war or natural disaster. That anyone can sit back in their little sterile box and make the kind of crass judgments based on nothing but jingoistic gibber makes me want to load the nearest Hummer with whatever I can buy off the internet and set off to give little Jim and Josh a taste of their own medicine.
I don’t like people who are cavalier and make sweeping judgments about things such as… wanton destruction.
Old Cowboy saying: if you want to get out of a hole…stop digging.
The more you insist on this antiquated right/left label the less you are able to understand the problems that beset us or talk about them intelligently. I divide everything between the stupid and the not stupid. Which reminds me that a supposedly very clever doc film on climate change called the Age of Stupid has already premiered in the UK and shown at some film festivals here. But, of course, because of all the Western countries America has dragged its feet the longest over implementing policies and continues to see “green” as nothing more than a money making opportunity. (However, I do concede to the many efforts being made in communities all across the country to take matters into their own hands.)(When you here that chicken clucking from your neighbor’s backyard in Reseda you will know what I mean)
NB: Your insistence on surprise over the convulsions going on in journalism. I have to laugh as you froth and fret that somehow journalism– or the art of interpreting or reporting is somehow doomed when in fact it is actually MORE important than ever, more immediate, more necessary. YOU are the dinosaur, Marc! Its just all about words and where they can be seen and paid for by some form of remuneration for those who put their skills behind those words– and an infrastructure that supports the wordsmiths and is accountable for its accuracy. All that has changed is that the flow of capital has been shaken down. Newspapers survived on the most basic premise of this now dying economic paradigm: advertising. As the capital to the businesses who advertised dried up newspaper publishers then panicked and the usual stupidity to address the problem further revealed the stupidity of the system the whole house of cards is shown for what it really is.
Look up the word enantiodromia.
If anything, Marc, there is more opportunity for journalism and journalists than ever.
July 11th, 2009 at 7:27 am
There’s more than a few exceptional moments in “Bruno” which I saw last night but I’ll be quiet for others sake this early on
July 11th, 2009 at 7:38 am
# Josh Says:
July 9th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Anna,
Iraq wasn’t a mess prior to the US invasion? Really? Far from Utopia.
The US invasion only made a horrible situational all the worse.
An absence of Western imperialism does not equal utopia. Human being are subject to the same flaws. It is pretty universal.
The US invasion is cynical yes indeed. But the religious, ethnic, and tribal conflicts that haunt that region (and most of the world mind you) might not always be directly related to the war. I guess I am a big more nuanced and tend to believe that too much credit is given to the U.S. for stoking sectarian conflicts. Tribalism and religion if taken seriously are powerful forces and create conflict on their own.
Josh do you really think you have said anything profound in this stolen bit of what passes for talking head wisdom?
Have you ever read any of the facts about “the region” as you call it. Iraq is a made up country. Lines in the sand drawn by the British.
Human beings by nature ARE TRIBAL and all of history throughout EVEN EUROPE is about “tribalism” Parts of Europe were still forming and being fought over in the 19th Century.
Communities of ethnic groups still form IN AMERICA and long established communities in America were based on ethnicity.
The area we call the Middle East–like what Europe was like–was made up of many groups who did not get to organize themselves in the same “organic” process that Europe did. (War, plunder…this is mine now and don’t cross over the line) The borders were forced on them from outside rather than one group overcoming another and establishing permanent territorial boundaries.
You still have some lunatic idea that Iraqis were stomping around on camels in the desert under Saddam living in tents. There were cities, towns, schools, sewers, water, electricity, universites…gee and transport run on combustion engines.
You blithely disregard how Saddam got there in the first place and further disregard the implications of his placement and what that means in terms of how the US conducts itself abroad and who runs the show and who reaps the benefits and how that impacts the moral fiber of US and us.
Like the US hasn’t just come off 8 years of religious factionalism that just resulted in an abortion doctor being slain in cold blood for no different reason than a Sunni or Shiite might blow one another up.
Are you on cloud cuckoo land that you can’t see the tribalism and factionalism rear its head in the news HERE all the time?
All America has is a constitution that allows for anyone to try and redress a wrong. THAT IS WHAT MAKES THIS COUNTRY IMPORTANT AND DIFFERENT.
But as we have seen that Constitution is no more viable than those who are in the position to interpret it…and is constantly at risk.
That Constitution is not ‘American” it represents the culmination of all the failures of governance in the history of world–and an attempt to get it right.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:04 am
I’m starting to think it’s good thing I’m a lousy typist.
July 11th, 2009 at 8:20 am
“I’m starting to think it’s good thing I’m a lousy typist”
Brevity is your strength, son
July 11th, 2009 at 9:29 am
If only it were yours, Ahmed
July 11th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Hmmm, lets now kill this thread….Anna pots and kettles, homie
July 11th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Kill the thread? What? C’mon Ahmed. This thing started with Sharpton, mentioned MJ, then meandered onto Iraq, boomeranged onto US imperialism and….
What the heck. There’s only one thing left to discuss:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/06/business/media/06mag.html
Manscape. Ist coming…
July 11th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
For what it’s worth I started off discussing Sharpton offering a partial and contextualised defence
July 11th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
ps like I said I watched Bruno last night and thought some parts of it were exceptional and brilliant. It also makes more sense to think of SBC as a kind of performance artist– so committed to his character that he never leaves it, never winks to let you know its a joke–than a satarist or comic but I will not talk much more until other people check it out
July 11th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Anna,
You need a refresher course on American cultural history. Ethnicity has not proven in most cases to be all that positive.
Just take a look at white ethnic identity. I can provide a reading list.
If we are to decry the consequences of white ethnicity (binary constructions of the “other” leading to our great tragedy of “race”), namely sadistic oppression of people of color than why can’t I decry the same violence in Iraq? Yes I know you will spit back a long wordy relativist argument. Yes, Iraq has its own complex history with its own continguencies, including a long history of imperialism.
Yet this is a typical argument of many on the “left” and a prime example of why the left is not a force in the world today. I personally believe in some sort of construction of a universal human rights and solidarity. That includes tolerance. I do not look back at Americas ugly cultural history and have empathy for the KKK or the white working class race riots in the NYC in the 1800′s. In fact traditional progressive movements in America (the successful ones at least) have always worked to challenge the negative consequences of ethnicity.
Now again, you will come back and focus on the empowering value of ethnic identity. Fair enough. But the white ethnic identity has led to some pretty horrible historical injustices including the construction of “Race.” We all know the ugly history of race in America and I need not reprise it here.
Yes I am aware of the fact that Iraq is a creation of the British. Yea Yea Yea. But in the end, that does not excuse the behavior of these sectarian groups. We could look back at the history of indentured servitude and maybe come up with a half baked justification of white racism in the South. We could refer to “culture” and “identity” to excuse the KKK. We could find all kinds of historical reasons to justify the horror that can be found when Irish immigrant workers became “white” ethnic workers and then proceeded to brutalize African American men in 1800′s NYC. We could look at the role of Okie identity in the Central Valley of California to explain the inequality that exists today. This is all useful in the classroom and in journals and helps us make sense of the world we live in.
Yet, my understanding of American cultural history does not lead me to explain way the behavior of the sick individual who shot up the holocaust memorial in DC. We can dig up the long sordid history of white ethnicity from the Virginia Colony to South Carolina in the Gilded Age to the Northeast before the Civil War, etc… to help us understand the psychology that drives white supremacy.
If we look at ethnic history in the US a little deeper, we can find all sorts stories that don’t fit the Howard Zinn narrative of the oppressive capitalist class outsmarting the united working class just before the moment of revolution. Yes, we find a complicated mishmash of disturbing oppression coming from up, down, and side to side.
Would that excuse the behavior of the holocaust memorial shooter? Do you excuse the intolerant attitudes that many African Americans (if you go by polls the great majority) have towards gays?
How can you have a decent world without some universal concept of human solidarity that challenges not only imperialism from the West but also some terrible behavior coming from side to side.
The sordid history of Iraq does not excuse the suicide bomber blowing up innocent people. The West has been out of Iran for some time and that country has some terrible ethnic and religious discrimination. Does the sordid history of imperialism excuse it? Is the treatment of minority groups in India ok cause of the history of British imperialism?
No. No sane person would say Yes. Again, if we are to have a decent and humane world we have to have some universal sense of justice that decries violence from above, or down, or side to side or from wherever. I tend to have faith in the Iraqi people that they are not brainwashed robots and probably would like a more peaceful society. Thus they are not all captive to this ugly history or the US bombardment of the land and probably aspire for a decent and peaceful life free from US bombs or suicide bombs.
Again, Ahmed’s ego might convince him that he was “right” about Iraq but he and his like were not. The Iraqi resistance ended up dealing with the evil empire via payola. Yes, cash seemed to quell a lot of that “natural tribal” tension after all.
July 12th, 2009 at 1:12 am
For what it’s worth I was never too comfortable with the Galloways and Tariq Ali’s trumpheting the “resistance” because they and I did not have to live in Iraq and bear witness to the hell which was and is the sectarian bloodshet. What I remmber saying at the time is that Bremmers “reforms” imposed from above constitutted in sister Naomi’s terms a kind of shock therapy, a rape and pillage of the Iraqi economy and a brazen attempt to control and privatise oil and Iraq’s economy. I talked about the terrible bloodletting the way in which the occupation empowered existing sectarian indentities and how thug militias step into the void of a non existing state. I talked about the human rights abuses and worse commited by US soldiers and the fact that the mission was led by men who authorized torture and were drunk on hubris. That the policy the US was pursuing was in some ways a continuation of the sanction regimne which decimatd the Iraqi middle class and the country’s infrustructure. Where I differ frm Josh is in my opinion that we, as citizens here, had a greater responsibility to hld our leaders accountable and stop a war which ended up having such brutal and violent consequences
July 12th, 2009 at 9:24 am
Freak show thread.
July 12th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Josh, you are just pulling assumptions about my point of view out of your ass. Assigning me a whole set of ideological constructs that I don’t have.
You insist on interpreting my counter to your smug account of the mayhem in Iraq as then my holding a set of theories– I don’t.
Your problem is you sit back and want to declare America is superior. That is where you go off the map.
Our citizenry blaze their violent pathology in the headlines every day full of individual acts of incredible violence, stupidity and cruelty to both man and beast.
If you don’t understand the psychological ramifications of a sterile culture that breeds common sense out of people in the womb…well then it just leads you to write the sterile drivel that you do.
We go abroad to do the same horrific damage that others inflict within their own “boarders”. Thats so twits like you can sit back and say: see. we are soooooo much more civilized. But then. Oh dear. A “Dirty Wizard” orchestrates a little back lash and 3000 Americans bite the dust. And Americans go: gosh.
We are all humans and human beings have barely crawled out of the slime. We are still murderers and more vicious than ever. In this country most of our taxes went into dirty, filthy programs that experiment with every possible way of killing people. We have a culture that —up until this convulsive new era being ushered in–thrived on death.
You refuse to just deal with facts when it comes to Iraq. The fact is US forces ripped their civil society apart. That will always lead to chaos. You refuse to put yourself in the shoes of someone sitting in their living room one night and having a smart bomb aimed by dumb people smash through your house, your life and the soft tissue of everyone you love. The you refuse to imagine what it might be like to survive that and try to find medical care,water, food and be trapped in 40 centigrade dgree heat.
Oh forget it you don’t have the soul or imagination to work any of it out for yourself.
July 12th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Anna, you my dear need to talk to someone.
July 12th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
“Freak show thread”
Agreed but that’s what happens when you get down and dirty and are forced to wrestle with a skunk like Josh. Actually he is more like a snotty punk
July 12th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Ahmed. We can certainly walk and chew gum at he same time. Hold our leaders accountable (I think the American public agrees and voted to do just that) and decry abuses abroad.
The authenticity of the resistance as an actual “resistance” can be easily found in their willingness to do business with the US as soon as they were willing. Meaning as soon as the US made concessions to these criminals, either with money or power, they stopped blowing up innocent people at the rate the once were.
That was my argument all along and in case you have not noticed, the resistance did not relinquish due to the US leaving. The hibernation is thanks to US bribes. So the resistance did not actually accomplish its goals of US departure, in fact is surely insured US involvement in one form or another in Iraq for many many years to come.
If these thugs actually wanted the US out they would not have blown up innocent people. They obviously didn’t have real goals and instead are the same as thugs and criminals all over the world, looking for payola and their own security and power.
I have never supported the war in Iraq or the brutality of the occupation. I simply opposed the US occupation without glorifying the forces that appeared to be opposing the US occupation.
If a Left movement is to have any influence in the world, it has to get beyond resistance movement worship (to be found in everything from Che to Chavez) and construct some sort of universal sense of human solidarity.
July 12th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Ahmed. You my sir are a hack. Plain and simple.
July 12th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
You come for my family, I resist.
You torture my son, I resist.
You bomb my neighborhood, I resist.
Maybe I have little choice but to throw in with other people I don’t like — gangsters, even. I have no choice, because you’ve come for me and for my family.
That’s why I supported the Iraqi resistance from day one and still do. The fact that criminals have insinuated themselves into the resistance doesn’t delegitimize the resistance itself.
July 12th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Josh has proved himself to be a self indulgent punk who when called on his glarring and appaling use of generalities retreats and refuses to engage, like when I responded to him on Palestine he then shut up. He is the mirror reflection of the lazy, ignorant, narccsistic society he pretends to critique. All that boring repetivie bloviating and still he hasnt engaged me with anything that I’ve actually wrote. A total fool and prick. Who wouldnt agree that the left has to “construct a universal sense of human freedom”, okay if I had some time I’d ask what left and shouldnt we be talking about freedoms in the plural and what if “universalism” imagined or normalised as sameness whose narrtaives and experiences get left out as a consequence. Regardless of this I doubt that this “vision” will ever involve any heavy lifting on the part of kids with big mouths, who talk too much and read to little and do the rounds in the indie music LA scene
July 12th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
I agree with Bunkerbuster only in the sense that the right to resist a foreign and hostile occupation of ones country in the abstract is an important principle of justive, that need not act as an apology for attacks on innocent, sectarian targetting or acts of mass killing. The principle though, affirmed in reality by the Algerians and every other liberation struggle, is an important one to defend
July 12th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
Ahmed. I gave a clear answer about Palestine. Maybe it is not to a fanatic like yours likening.
If anyone is a narcissist my good sir, it clearly is you. You have an ego the size of the rock of Gibraltar. So big you take the time to revisit debates from this message board from maybe 4 years ago. You were so bothered by them you had to bring it up, with out of course having the guts to acknowledge your own tortured and silly position. Namely, your support of the resistance. Have you the humility to admit you were pretty wrong? NOPE. I can admit I have been wrong many times. If I was never wrong I would be a pathetic ego maniac hack like you.
That really is the problem here. You seem to think a lot of yourself to constantly refer to my time in the “LA indie music scene.” I do not even know what you are talking about because I almost never go out to see live music and I do not live in the city of Los Angeles. But clearly in your mind you have a far more noble profession than whatever it is you think I do for a living. Do you talk the same way of your mechanic? Probably. What a loathsome person you are. One that clearly make you the sole expert on all affairs. You have the mind of a dictator or just a hack academic. Plenty of them seeking tenure pal. Or are you still adjunct???
Bunkerbuster. Turn up your Pacifica. What a freaking joke. Clearly the resistance in Iraq was not really a resistance at all because they killed lots of innocent Iraqi’s and because in the end they were willing to deal with the “devil.” Human history has plenty of examples of many noble resistance movements. Just cause some are just does not mean all of them are just. Who actually needs some nuance here?
Yes of course “in the abstract” everyone has the right to resist foreign occupation. But that is NOT what the gangsters in Iraq were doing. Just look at how the resistance magically seems to have subsided. Do you wonder why? NOPE. None of you, not our Ego in Chief Ahmed have the capacity to revise your thinking.
If anyone is lazy and non-thinking my god it is you Ahmed. Do you really think I cannot find a zillion “leftist” thinkers who you parrot? I really would love to find one hint of original thinking that departs from the script.
July 12th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
Josh, my dear, my psyche is one of the few healthy ones.
And, Josh, you need figure out that Right and Left are only good for distinguishing between one side of your body from the other and for giving directions.
Do you still go on snipe hunts, too?
July 12th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
Bunker Buster you need to read something besides the news bites on the side of your Yahoo acccount.
Go research the Green Zone and talk to me about who the gangsters are you are so sure you would not align yourself with.
July 12th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Anna, you ignorant slut. Do you think for one second….oh hell, never mind.
July 12th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
See what your tortured tantrums have turned me, a mild mannered and reasonable gentleman, into Anna.
Just another coarse, filthy mouthed classless and clueless hack trolling blogs. I am broken.
July 12th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
Anna: perhaps you could just tell me what’s in the Green Zone that might make me find self-defense distasteful or unadvantageous…
July 13th, 2009 at 12:11 am
“Ahmed. I gave a clear answer about Palestine”
No you didnt. You spoke as usual on placard type language ands generalities and when I replied that your response, with the usual both sides are to blame evasion, didnt even engage with the on the gound developments you didnt reply. There was nothing at all fanatical about what I said. Please see my post at July 10th, 2009 at 8:19 am
July 13th, 2009 at 7:16 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze5dbxPO8cU
July 13th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
Oh lordy Ahmed. I need to roll out my plan for peace between Israel and Palestine? Wow. You really are a one-dimensional person. It really is the sole litmus test and something you constantly go back to when in a corner.
Beyond generalities I do not have much to say. The conflict seems sadly intractable due largely to U.S. involvement (but not without fiddling from other countries such as Iran and other Arab states). Frankly, it simply is not my obsession like it is yours. Lots of violence occurs all over the world, including the US. Lots just over the border in Northern Baja California, easily rivaling the homicides on the West Bank and Gaza. What I am saying is that I think that the conflict to which your life revolves is simply not a big concern for me mostly because I see no end in sight. I support the Palestinian cause up to the point that people start getting blown up in Pizza Parlors. I have no support for the continued settlements and incursions by the radical settlers and the Israeli military forces. The Israel-Palestine conflict does not need to be my obsession.
You Ahmed, the world has lots of problems. Climate change is a big one. Invasive species is another. Food security is a problem. The global economic meltdown. Trade related externalities. Mexico and Central America are plagued by drug violence. Africa by corruption and ethnic violence. I could keep going. It is a big and complex world out there guy. Not sure if you know that or not.
July 13th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
Ah yes, the classic white boy offensive…when all else fails call a female a slut.
What is it about you boys that you can’t define yourself or your lack of belief in anything intelligent except by resorting to cliches that, sadly for you, speak volumes about your lack of character. You, boy, are a whore for stupidity and ignorance.
And Josh would almost have a point in that last post if we didn’t know that he thinks his point of view from his living room ( Like Palin’s from hers) imbues him with a righteous made in America wisdom.
July 13th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
Anna, you really are a nut case.
July 13th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
The reason that I brought the issue up in the first place is that you go on endlessly when speaking about Iraq about the need for greater democratic freedoms, are dismayed at the lack of a secular left and pontificate about the “lefts” inability to construct some “universalist” frame of justice relationg to the middle east. It seems to me that people who have a sincere rather than disingenuous interest in those issues would be rather passionate about the Palestinian cause as they are a stateless people whose continued subjugation and displacement is funded and bankrolled by us, you and me. I’ve long learned that the issue of Palestine exposes, like no other, western hypocrisy especially amoung the so called “liberal left”. And I have no plans not to bring it. Sorry, bro
July 13th, 2009 at 11:29 pm
Ok God Ahmed. Talk about a Narcissist. My god you are full of yourself and you are a fanatic. Yes, a fanatic. I can see the drool. What a self-righteous bore.
Yes, Palestine matters. It takes up plenty of space in the pages of The Nation, NLR, Dissent, etc… even the New Republic. It is an issue that is endlessly debated.
The U.S. undermines democracies all over the world. Put things in just a tad bit of perspective. Try and bracket that fanaticism for a second.
I am not compelled to have an obsession with the issue. The US and US based corporation undermine democracy all over the world. Hell, the silly Drug War in the US has drastic consequences on democracies from Mexico to Columbia. If you did the math and added up drug related homicides in Mexico, Central, and South America from the last 5 or so years you would be shocked. It might not be a sexy issue but the US is doing a good job of screwing with its neighbors.
How about the destruction of the Niger Delta and the ensuing instability and violence due to Shell? Sexy enough for you?
No no no. Western hypocrisy can be found in lots of corners of the world. So can Southern, Middle Eastern, Australian, etc… hypocrisy be found. In fact, the Palestinian issue has lots of hypocrisy beyond the West including those the proclaim to support the Palestinian cause like the horrible Gulf states. Take a gander as to how Palestinian temporary workers are treated in Kuwait. Lots of the Palestinian leadership are also filled with hypocrisy. While the West and the US in particular are central to the issue, they are not the only forces standing in the way of progress. You may want to be a condescending Westerner who refuses to acknowledge the agency of the Palestinian leadership and the population, I do not. Lots of fingers to point even in the US is getting the biggest pointed at it.
Climate change and other environmental problems if not dealt with ASAP have the capacity to destabilize relatively stable corners of the world. See Katrina. So yes Ahmed, lots of important things to think about, not just Palestine.
Who needs some nuance now? How is rather narrow minded? I think you project.
July 14th, 2009 at 12:34 am
OK, this fools comments are by now so boring, tedious and pedestrian that I will no resign from this thread, and given the fact that apparently there was a big UFC fight the other day, let me proclaim myself the winner by tap out or submission rather than knock down as this thing has dragged on for far too long
July 14th, 2009 at 8:47 am
“i got beef with like a hundred children”-Jay Z
July 14th, 2009 at 9:46 am
# bunkerbuster Says:
July 12th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
Anna: perhaps you could just tell me what’s in the Green Zone that might make me find self-defense distasteful or unadvantageous…
MacDonalds, Burger Kings. But you wouldn’t get the reference. For a ramp up on reality try reading Scahill’s Blackwater.
You are a total idiot when it comes to reality, you, JimR, Woody etc, etc, ad nauseum.
If you are such a fucking patriot why don’t you find a way to get yourself sent over to Iraq. Its not like the majority of guys serving over there voted for Obama or anything or that many of them have gone on record with harrowing accounts of the lies and bullshit and cruelty being perpetrated by the military and their trauma from what they felt they had to do as opposed to what needed to be done. Nooooooooooooo you think you are wiser than those who have been there.
June 5th, 2010 at 11:25 am
Great write-up, I am a big believer in commenting on blogs to let the blog writers know that they’ve added something worthwhile to the world wide web!