Comments on: The Trouble With Ramsey http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/ Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:56:04 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Betting http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-74010 Betting Tue, 01 Aug 2006 16:56:35 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-74010 Betting <a href="http://www.threadbomb.com" rel="nofollow">Betting</a>baseball handicapping <a href="http://www.threadbomb.com/sportsbook/baseball-handicapping.html" rel="nofollow">baseball handicapping</a>baseball picks <a href="http://www.threadbomb.com/sportsbook/baseball-picks.html" rel="nofollow">baseball picks</a> Betting Bettingbaseball handicapping baseball handicappingbaseball picks baseball picks

]]> By: brigite bardotxjj http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-71692 brigite bardotxjj Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:10:57 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-71692 Ein Schloss, Ein <a href="http://niemachujanamariolke.com/" rel="nofollow">poker</a> Wurst, Ein Kopf !xjj Ein Schloss, Ein poker Wurst, Ein Kopf !xjj

]]> By: Freddy the Pig http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23340 Freddy the Pig Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:20:31 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23340 A couple of years ago a friend of mine sent me the "indictment" Ramsey Clark had written as articles of impeachment for Bush. (This may even have been before Iraq, and all been about his war crime of overthrowing the Taliban.) What amazed me was not only that it was a bunch of crap, that was expected, but that it was a bunch of crap that bore absolutely no resemblance to the actual grounds for impeachment specified in the US constitution. Bush was to be impeached for not signing Kyoto (should every senator who voted against it be impeached too?), for violating this or that rule of the UN, for failing to give his full support to gay marriage, for being funny-looking. There was not, in that, a single charge that could last a minute in a Congressional hearing; it was just clubbing Bush with any stick at hand. None of that would be surprising coming from your run of the mill college lefty but one does assume some higher standard of basic legal competence in the former Attorney General of the US. Apparently one assumes it in vain in regards to the ridiculous Mr. Clark. Whatever motivations of resentment, vanity and just general nuttiness drive him, he is not a serious person who trades on the seriousness of an office he held long, long ago. A couple of years ago a friend of mine sent me the “indictment” Ramsey Clark had written as articles of impeachment for Bush. (This may even have been before Iraq, and all been about his war crime of overthrowing the Taliban.)

What amazed me was not only that it was a bunch of crap, that was expected, but that it was a bunch of crap that bore absolutely no resemblance to the actual grounds for impeachment specified in the US constitution. Bush was to be impeached for not signing Kyoto (should every senator who voted against it be impeached too?), for violating this or that rule of the UN, for failing to give his full support to gay marriage, for being funny-looking. There was not, in that, a single charge that could last a minute in a Congressional hearing; it was just clubbing Bush with any stick at hand.

None of that would be surprising coming from your run of the mill college lefty but one does assume some higher standard of basic legal competence in the former Attorney General of the US. Apparently one assumes it in vain in regards to the ridiculous Mr. Clark. Whatever motivations of resentment, vanity and just general nuttiness drive him, he is not a serious person who trades on the seriousness of an office he held long, long ago.

]]> By: A Blog For All http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23298 A Blog For All Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:09:51 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23298 <strong>Iraq to Ramsey Clark: Go Home</strong> Iraqis know what Saddam Hussein did to their country. And yet there appears to be no stronger defender of Saddam Hussein than Ramsey Clark, who now runs ANSWER (the far left anti-American organization), and who seeks to find fault with every bit of A... Iraq to Ramsey Clark: Go Home

Iraqis know what Saddam Hussein did to their country. And yet there appears to be no stronger defender of Saddam Hussein than Ramsey Clark, who now runs ANSWER (the far left anti-American organization), and who seeks to find fault with every bit of A…

]]> By: bunkerbuster http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23297 bunkerbuster Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:34:40 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23297 Marc writes: ``You seem to believe that the world is neatly cleaved into two teams; you choose one and swear loyalty. And even a murmur of criticism about “your side” is heresy.'' Sorry, but "my side'' isn't Ramsey Clark or, certainly, Saddam Hussein, and my critique of your approach is that it lacks nuance and context, dwelling as it does on bombastic ad hominem attacks. I would be no less disappointed if you made similar hatchet jobs on W and Dick Cheney. Here's an example of how Marc chooses demonizatin over analysis. He says he's "happy" that Saddam is on trial. Indeed, justice for despots is a pleasant thought, but the facts of how Saddam came to trial and the circumstances of his ongoing trial should be deeply disturbing to anyone who cares about democracy and the ideals and institutions it's based on. But no matter, Marc is happy because Saddam is a demon, enuf said. Marc accuses me of breaking the world into simple categories of the good and bad guys, but I think it's Marc who overlooks the details in favor of demonization. Marc, apparently, has no important response to the fact that Saddam's trial by his most vehement political opponents can't possibly be fair and is itself a product of war crimes. Let me guess: he'll say I'm a leftist dupe of some sort who can't stomach criticism of Saddam. No, I just think supporting the principles of jurisprudence are more important than seeing a dictator, even one as vile as Saddam, fry. What is more important, that Saddam fries for his crimes in an obviously unfair trial, or that the political paradigm that created and sustained him be destroyed? Marc writes: “You seem to believe that the world is neatly cleaved into two teams; you choose one and swear loyalty. And even a murmur of criticism about “your side” is heresy.”

Sorry, but “my side” isn’t Ramsey Clark or, certainly, Saddam Hussein, and my critique of your approach is that it lacks nuance and context, dwelling as it does on bombastic ad hominem attacks. I would be no less disappointed if you made similar hatchet jobs on W and Dick Cheney.

Here’s an example of how Marc chooses demonizatin over analysis. He says he’s “happy” that Saddam is on trial.

Indeed, justice for despots is a pleasant thought, but the facts of how Saddam came to trial and the circumstances of his ongoing trial should be deeply disturbing to anyone who cares about democracy and the ideals and institutions it’s based on.

But no matter, Marc is happy because Saddam is a demon, enuf said. Marc accuses me of breaking the world into simple categories of the good and bad guys, but I think it’s Marc who overlooks the details in favor of demonization.

Marc, apparently, has no important response to the fact that Saddam’s trial by his most vehement political opponents can’t possibly be fair and is itself a product of war crimes. Let me guess: he’ll say I’m a leftist dupe of some sort who can’t stomach criticism of Saddam. No, I just think supporting the principles of jurisprudence are more important than seeing a dictator, even one as vile as Saddam, fry.

What is more important, that Saddam fries for his crimes in an obviously unfair trial, or that the political paradigm that created and sustained him be destroyed?

]]> By: Eleanore kjellberg http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23267 Eleanore kjellberg Wed, 30 Nov 2005 01:32:07 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23267 Was it not the CIA who helped Saddam over-throw the Qassim Regime in 1963? And wasn't the reason for the overthrow, a fear that the Iraq Petroleum Company would be nationalized? So now, we have another game of "musical chairs,"--for the exact same reason. The U.S. governement lost control of another puppet. The high price one despot pays for being too independent -- a mock trial and laughable defense. Was it not the CIA who helped Saddam over-throw the Qassim Regime in 1963? And wasn’t the reason for the overthrow, a fear that the Iraq Petroleum Company would be nationalized? So now, we have another game of “musical chairs,”–for the exact same reason. The U.S. governement lost control of another puppet. The high price one despot pays for being too independent — a mock trial and laughable defense.

]]> By: richard lo cicero http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23261 richard lo cicero Wed, 30 Nov 2005 00:49:40 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23261 TThe late William Kunstler said that every defendant was entiltled to legal representation. But that didn't mean he was entitled to Kunstler's. Ramsey Clark has shown a penchant for some very bad people and, unlike the ACLU, only shows up on one side. The Civil Liberties Union will defend the rights of Nazis to march in Skokie as well as Communists to teach or gays to be scouts. That's the difference. TThe late William Kunstler said that every defendant was entiltled to legal representation. But that didn’t mean he was entitled to Kunstler’s. Ramsey Clark has shown a penchant for some very bad people and, unlike the ACLU, only shows up on one side. The Civil Liberties Union will defend the rights of Nazis to march in Skokie as well as Communists to teach or gays to be scouts. That’s the difference.

]]> By: Mark A. York http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23257 Mark A. York Wed, 30 Nov 2005 00:30:38 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23257 We're all happy he's on trial but he may also just be pulling the stings of the insurgency as well. We’re all happy he’s on trial but he may also just be pulling the stings of the insurgency as well.

]]> By: Marc Cooper http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23251 Marc Cooper Wed, 30 Nov 2005 00:06:23 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23251 Thank you Too Many Steves. Precisely. If Clark sticks his schnozz into this hi-profile trial it seems he makes himself fair game. But we all KNOW the answer to the Big Question. Clark is there to turn this trial around and try the US for its policy in Iraq. What a stupid, fucking way to do it. SLam the policy all you like... but to do that in defense of a mass murderer like Saddam is nauseating. Im happy Saddam is on trial. Shoot me. Thank you Too Many Steves. Precisely. If Clark sticks his schnozz into this hi-profile trial it seems he makes himself fair game. But we all KNOW the answer to the Big Question. Clark is there to turn this trial around and try the US for its policy in Iraq. What a stupid, fucking way to do it. SLam the policy all you like… but to do that in defense of a mass murderer like Saddam is nauseating. Im happy Saddam is on trial. Shoot me.

]]> By: too many steves http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23240 too many steves Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:38:20 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23240 Mark D - but what is it about Ramsey Clark that we should discuss if not his motivation for sitting at Saddam's defense table? We know where he is (Iraq). We know what he is doing there (on the Defense team). The only question left is why? Our respective guesses are as good as any, right? At least Alan Dershowitz, who is also fond of big name show trials, seems to pick ones that have interesting legal questions and challenges. What is interesting about Saddam's case? There's pretty broad agreement on the evidence, the only questions are: what will be his defense and will the prosecution credibly connect the person to the crimes. Mark D - but what is it about Ramsey Clark that we should discuss if not his motivation for sitting at Saddam’s defense table? We know where he is (Iraq). We know what he is doing there (on the Defense team). The only question left is why? Our respective guesses are as good as any, right?

At least Alan Dershowitz, who is also fond of big name show trials, seems to pick ones that have interesting legal questions and challenges.

What is interesting about Saddam’s case? There’s pretty broad agreement on the evidence, the only questions are: what will be his defense and will the prosecution credibly connect the person to the crimes.

]]> By: Mike C http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23229 Mike C Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:28:42 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23229 Holy crap. You've obviously hit a nerve, Marc. (I am shocked that there has been no mention of freeing Mumia yet). I think it is great that you are reporting on the antics of Ramsey Clark. Everyone should take a real look at Clark and International Answer before they go to the next peace rally. Holy crap. You’ve obviously hit a nerve, Marc. (I am shocked that there has been no mention of freeing Mumia yet). I think it is great that you are reporting on the antics of Ramsey Clark. Everyone should take a real look at Clark and International Answer before they go to the next peace rally.

]]> By: Rich http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23228 Rich Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:24:28 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23228 Oh, and Marc, not to give you a writerly ribbing, but you sound like the angry band member who chastises the crowd for not playing what they want. True, they're (usually) paying fans in that example, but unless you're writing in your private journal, or playing songs on your acoustic guitar in your lonely basement, your audience will engage with you--poke, prod, gush, whine, chastise. All the good stuff. Not that you can't poke back, of co-- Yeouch! hey, that hurt! I'm remembering that ol' Smiths classic ... "Hang the DJ (hang the dj), hang the DJ.." Oh, and Marc, not to give you a writerly ribbing, but you sound like the angry band member who chastises the crowd for not playing what they want. True, they’re (usually) paying fans in that example, but unless you’re writing in your private journal, or playing songs on your acoustic guitar in your lonely basement, your audience will engage with you–poke, prod, gush, whine, chastise. All the good stuff. Not that you can’t poke back, of co– Yeouch! hey, that hurt!

I’m remembering that ol’ Smiths classic … “Hang the DJ (hang the dj), hang the DJ..”

]]> By: Josh Legere http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23227 Josh Legere Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:21:55 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23227 To tell you the truth, I don't care much about the WM3. There are plenty of poor folks sitting in jail who nobobdy pays attention to. I guess they have boring cases and are not heavy metal fans. Ramsey is a nut job. But is he not kind of a staw man? Everyone knows he is going to defend the more vile person he can find. Better to ignore him and the Answer nuts. The RCP too. To tell you the truth, I don’t care much about the WM3. There are plenty of poor folks sitting in jail who nobobdy pays attention to. I guess they have boring cases and are not heavy metal fans.

Ramsey is a nut job. But is he not kind of a staw man? Everyone knows he is going to defend the more vile person he can find. Better to ignore him and the Answer nuts. The RCP too.

]]> By: Rich http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23226 Rich Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:17:30 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23226 "frank"..."al derardo".. "jimmi fox"... AKA good ol' steve. :) Where's "whitey herzog" been hidin'? “frank”…”al derardo”.. “jimmi fox”… AKA good ol’ steve. :) Where’s “whitey herzog” been hidin’?

]]> By: richard http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23225 richard Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:16:58 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23225 I ain't Josh. What legal remedies, short of revolution, currently exist for the WM3? None? Thought so. I ain’t Josh.

What legal remedies, short of revolution, currently exist for the WM3?

None?

Thought so.

]]> By: frank http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23224 frank Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:15:49 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23224 a decade ago, i was supporting the wm3...and other cases like it...all the things that cooper accuses Clark of not caring about...my bad. a decade ago, i was supporting the wm3…and other cases like it…all the things that cooper accuses Clark of not caring about…my bad.

]]> By: frank http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23223 frank Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:15:03 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23223 a lost cause? you must be kidding. WM3 doesn't meet Josh's politically correct litmus test I guess...ho hum... a lost cause? you must be kidding. WM3 doesn’t meet Josh’s politically correct litmus test I guess…ho hum…

]]> By: richard http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23222 richard Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:13:45 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23222 The West Memphis Three are a completely lost cause. The time to fight that fight was, oh, a decade ago. WHERE WERE YOU A DECADE AGO? The West Memphis Three are a completely lost cause. The time to fight that fight was, oh, a decade ago.

WHERE WERE YOU A DECADE AGO?

]]> By: Josh Legere http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23221 Josh Legere Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:10:54 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23221 The West Memphis 3 and Mumia people are great. I love them. While the WM3 folks are far more sane than the Mumia nuts, they still seem to think that any moment not spent talking about that case is wasted. Leonard Peltier as well... I love these cases. The West Memphis 3 and Mumia people are great. I love them. While the WM3 folks are far more sane than the Mumia nuts, they still seem to think that any moment not spent talking about that case is wasted. Leonard Peltier as well… I love these cases.

]]> By: frank http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23219 frank Tue, 29 Nov 2005 19:53:40 +0000 http://marccooper.com/the-trouble-with-ramsey/#comment-23219 oh yeah, i know Marc...that's really the fringes...I hear ya... why would a blogger like yourself ever wanna talk about such trivial things...eh? oh yeah, i know Marc…that’s really the fringes…I hear ya…
why would a blogger like yourself ever wanna talk about such trivial things…eh?

]]>