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White Roots

Looks like it's time for another dye-job for the Net-Roots. Their natural white is starting to peek through again. Bad news for the shadow boxers over at KOS, MYDD and others who believe the frontline of the political fight is on cable TV. After their successful Web campaign to block the Nevada Democratic Party from co-sponsoring aPresidential debate with Fox News comes this------> The Congressional Black Caucus has just agreed to stage two such debates with Fox over the course of the year. What's a matter with these folks? Don't they know that Fox will make Biden wear black face? That Obama will be forced to do a minstrel dance with Roger Ailes? That the earth itself will spin off its axis as horrified bloggers from Digby to Hamsher wail their guts out? No. "The CBC Institute is committed to presenting the presidential candidates to the broadest audience possible," Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., the chairman of the institute, said in a statement. "Collaborating with Fox News provides an opportunity to take this presidential election to millions of households." Oh, what a rare thought. We're in an election and we have a chance to speak to an audience of millions who ordinarily wouldn't listen, so let's take a shot. Wasn't that easy? Not for KOS. His anaylsis is that the CBC is "stupid," it's decision no less than "breathtaking in its stupidity."

68 Responses to “White Roots”

  1. reg Says:

    For what its worth, your link notes that a coalition of black on-line “activists” led criticism of this move by the CBC leadership Institute. Are they “natural white” too ? Is this post an airing of differences on how to deal with FOX, or just another cheap shot at liberal Dems who’ve actually been doing something to change the center of gravity in their party ? Reads like the latter. I don’t happen to take the CBC as the last word on strategic progressivism. God knows they’ve got a better record than most Beltway cliques, but the way they dealt with the Jefferson scandal made it clear that they’re not above criticism. You make it sound like it’s borderline racist to disagree with them. Otherwise why the framing of this bit of news in racial terms ? Especially when according to the article, there’s a coalition of black political bloggers who differ with the CBC on this. Perhaps they’re merely pawns of the all-powerful KOS, dancing to his tune.

  2. Marc Cooper Says:

    Reg, no I dont grant CBC any moral absolution. I took them to task during the 2004 DNC for their whorish dance with Lockheed to commemorate, of all things, the MDFP.

    I think simply that Bennie Thompson’s statement sez it all. No Democratic constituency shou;ld be more wary of its treatment by FOX than the CBC and if they can understand the upside in doing it, everyone should.

  3. reg Says:

    Fair enough argument. I’m not even 100% on this, although I lean toward pushing back agaiinst FOX as something other than a mere “news” operation – I think you’d agree that their “objectivity quotient” doesn’t come close to most other major news organizations and that their adherence to RNC talking points is more than a mere coincidence. The thing that irks me about a lot of your criticism of folks like the netroots is that you often package your intended points in so much snark and near-contempt that it doesn’t do much to advance your POV.

  4. reg Says:

    And, yeah, I know I’ve got a lot of nerve taking you to task over your manners…

  5. bob williams Says:

    This is no big deal. Kos, MYDD and MOVEON are all pretty darn white, anyway.

  6. richard locicero Says:

    A prediction. Obamaa won’t attend and neither will Edwards. And Richardson declined the first debate so I bet he’s out too.

    So what will you have? Hillary and and the four dwarfs? That’s if Dodd and Biden don’t drop. Not to mention mrs Clinton.

    So I guess Dennis the Menace gets his big shot.

    Wonder if he’s ready for his close-up?

  7. richard locicero Says:

    Of course the CBC probably took advice from FOX’s newest commentator, Harold Ford, who now heads the DLC and told us today that the Democrats would be making a big mistake to hamstring the President by putting limits on his ability to achieve “Victory” in Iraq!

    Yeah those stupid white boys on the blogs were sure put in their place by that, ah, negro!

    (And for your info one of KOSs earliest offshoots is the NEWSBLOG and last I heard Steve Gilliard was (shush!) Black

    He’s in the hospital now, recovering from heart surgery but he was no fan of FOX, Ford, or the CBC.

    Just another sell-out to the dirty hippies on the netroots, I guess.)

  8. richard locicero Says:

    And I’ll repeat this for some of people unable to read demos or ratings. The largest audience on FOX is about 2 million. People not households. That’s less than half what Timmy boy gets on Sunday mornings for MEET THE PRESS. And see Mellman for their politics.

    And for the five people left you sell your soul?

  9. richard locicero Says:

    In short. We’ll talk about opportunities to reach a new audience when Pacifica announces their hosting of a GOP Presidential Debate moderated by Amy Goodman!

  10. Bill Bradley Says:

    Richard, you are on New West Notes so I know that you know better than this. Richardson ducked because he was asked to by Harry Reid, who was pissed about Ailes’s joke. Obama will be there because he has problems with blacks notwithstanding Jesse’s endorsement today. (Jesse will tell him to go.) Edwards? Has any Democrat spent more time on Fox News than Edwards? LOL

    >richard locicero Says:
    March 29th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
    A prediction. Obamaa won’t attend and neither will Edwards. And Richardson declined the first debate so I bet he’s out too.

  11. richard locicero Says:

    Well Bill that’s why, next to baseball, politics is my favorite spectator sport. Let’s say we disagree on this and we’ll see who is right.

    (If you care to predict who will be in the World Series this year I’m open to that as well!)

    (And I’m conflicted there since my father made me an old Yankee fan – something about DiMaggio, guess you have to be Italian. But I spent time in Boston and Fenway’s my favorite “Pahk”. Red Sox and Yankees? I know. Talk about voting for it before voting against it!)

  12. Jim R Says:

    Massa’ Moulitsas is surely having trouble keeping the negros in line, and he’s taken out the longest, meanest looking blogwhip I ever did see. He’s on his way to making the CBC an example of what will happen to those who try to stray from the political Plantation.

    Clearly there is more than this one escape attempt that worries him so. Why else roundup the contented loyals to his side, the ColorOfChange. Shouldn’t this be ColorOfSame??.

    Could it be shear fear of a third awaking, a renaissance, a people who long to be free once again. Free from the styfling mothering, the unending sympathy, the low expectations, the hollowing of their religious heritage, the relentless march against their judeo-christian values that’s left their family structure in ruins, free from the rich white Political Plantation owners that have never done a days LABOR in their lives. But most of all, freedom from the relentless reminders of an ugly unjust past they are never allowed to ESCAPE from.

    Yes, if I were Massa’ Markos, dependent on a large population of Black folk for a biennial harvest of votes, I’d be mighty worried indeed.

  13. Michael Balter Says:

    The Department of Defense has identified 3,237 American service members who have died since the start of the Iraq war. It confirmed the deaths of the following Americans this week:

    FORSHEY, Curtis J., 22, Sgt., Army; Hollidaysburg, Pa.; 101st Airborne Division.

    GOLCZYNSKI, Marcus A., 30, Staff Sgt., Marines; Lewisburg, Tenn.; Fourth Marine Division.

    McDONALD, Sean K., 21, Specialist, Army; Rosemount, Minn.; First Infantry Division.

    THOMAS, Sean M., 33, Master Sgt., Army; Harrisburg, Pa.; 28th Division Support Command.

  14. reg Says:

    You’re a hoot, Jim R. Come back when you can do better than a blackface act straight out of the Strom Thurmond Memorial Party’s bullshit talking points.

    Let me get this straight – liberals are racist when they are afraid to disagree with blacks and racist when they do disagree. Sounds like desperation from a faction that has much to be desperate about these days. The trope that blacks are too stupid to recognize that their interests lie with Karl Rove & Co. has been recycled so many times to no avail, one would think you’d be embarrassed by trying to retread it.

    The GOP decided to become the last refuge of racists when they embraced the Dixiecrats defecting from the Dems. Live with it. You’re not the party of Lincoln in 2007 – you’re the party of the traitors and neo-KKK who fly the confederate flag. Scum…

    Are you enjoying the investigations ?

  15. Michael Balter Says:

    “We’ll talk about opportunities to reach a new audience when Pacifica announces their hosting of a GOP Presidential Debate moderated by Amy Goodman!”

    That would be a great idea, actually. Goodman could direct questions at the Repubs that they would not get on Fox news.

    btw, how come no one on the left complains that Pacifica is not fair and balanced? If it’s a legitimate complaint to make against Fox, why isn’t it a legitimate complaint to make against Pacifica? Just wondering. Perhaps someone could explain this double standard to me, or perhaps we should just stop whining about Fox and learn to deal with the situation.

  16. reg Says:

    I don’t think Pacifica is anywhere close to “fair and balanced”. My own view of KPFA is that it’s an absolutely terrible source for news and not particularly good for “opinion” radio. One big difference is that Pacifica makes no claim to be anything other than an “against the current” leftwing station. No one thinks Air America is anything other than a vehicle for a left-liberal agenda. I pretty much found Air America worthless, except for Franken because he was always extremely well prepared with his guests and interview – much better than most real journalists. You could learn far more real information listening to Franken for a half-hour than you’d get in a week of Chris Mathews. He wasn’t the greatest broadcaster ever, but he was sharp and quite fair, albeit sarcastic. FOX claims to be MORE fair and balanced than, say, CBS – which is completely ridiculous. I don’t think we should whine – I think we should deal with it by making it clear who they are and treating them the same way one would treat Rush Limbaugh. They’re hardly better. The way that the rightwing pushed the “liberal media” line into mainstream discourse was by making it part of an aggressive strategy to delegitimatize centrist reporting and intimidate reporters into over-compensating for anything that could be construed as “liberal”, thus playing into the hard-right’s hands and shifting the framing of issues farther to the right. Why not do the same thing to FOX – make it clear to anyone who’s not already in the tank that they aren’t a news channel – they’re a shameless propaganda machine.

  17. Samuel Stott Says:

    Fox: “We report, you decide.”

    The thing Left-wingers hate about Fox is summed up in that motto, the idea that You (We) get to decide. Fox is forthrightly right-of-center, pro-Republican party and anti-Democratic party. Fox is proudly and honestly biased, in that it admits to being pro-Christian and pro-Capitalist, Pro-Right and anti-Left.

    CBS-ABC-NBC, on the other hand, (explain the difference) laughably, absurdly, along with the likes of the New York Times, continue to insist that they are objective, disinterested and non-partisan.

    Since the advent of Fox, leftists have ceased to attack CBS-ABC-NBC from the left and instead, defend it as “objective” and non-partisan.

    No one buys it. Everyone knows that CBS-ABC-NBC skew left of center.

    There is no reason on earth why Fox shouldn’t have a left-wing analogue, beyond the fact that they already do—every other network.

    American Leftists are as numerous as Rightists and they have slightly more buying power and indisputably they dominate the coasts and the big cities. They are a major market easily served, but, incredibly, Leftists explain that capitalists are too fastidious to sell rope.

  18. Bill Bradley Says:

    If Markos whatever the frack his name is, who of course lives over in Berkeley, ever worked in a political campaign before setting up his echo chamber yakfest, I am completely unaware of it.

    Maybe these censorious hyperpartisan frackwits should get lives and do some real political work instead of wasting everybody’s time with these virtual crusades of theirs.

    Just a thought … LOL

  19. jcummings Says:

    Pigs fly. I found Jim R funny.

  20. jcummings Says:

    Only the first part. I do htink that the whole netroots thing is somewhat sectarian without being radical. There is no way in hell any Democrat refuses to debate on Fox, and risk dissing the CBC. And they shouldn’t risk dissing the CBC.

    Which reminds me, they should debate on the CBC. I mean the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. Anyone familiar with Canadian TV would agree that it would probably be the best moderated, most informed – and most cheaply producd – debate ever. Moderation by Ian Hanomansing, or perhaps George Stromboulopolos.

  21. jcummings Says:

    No one buys it. Everyone knows that CBS-ABC-NBC skew left of center

    Lest I link to that Democratic echo chamber MediaMatters (which does good research but also attacks anyone who criticizes a Democrat in any way shape or form, and encourages censorship, not unlike Kos) – I refer anyone who truly believes CBS, ABC and NBC of being “left” to FAIR.ORG, the original progressive media watchdog.

    The big networks may be less troglodytic in their presentation of information than Fox, given different demographics, but to suggest that there is anything remotely left of centre about any of these networks…(unless like some rightists contend, investigative reporting that makes the government or some corporation look bad, as appears twice a year or so on 60 minutes) is just foolish.

  22. Jim R Says:

    Reg, your response to my inconvient truth is old and outdated. You appear to be living, along with your party, about a quarter century behind times.

    It’s is way past time for the silly and lazy same-ole same-ole classic canned name-calling retoric to legitmate and valid opposition views of the down-side the smothering-mothering party have done to, not just to black families, but to the American family as a whole.

    The days of the gutting of responsible traditional family values are coming to and end, and they must. A nation cannot survive the destruction of fathered families, the destruction of responsibility, the destruction of basic moral values, the destruction of self-respect.

    This is the ugly legacy of a numbly neuturing nurturing and nude liberal party……in angry and total denial; re: your response.

  23. Jim R Says:

    I want to add, liberal intentions are good. But too good for their own good. What’s missing is a father’s prespective it’s policies in-advertently tend to replace with that big and broke_n Uncle in DC.

  24. reg Says:

    Jim R – the notion that the GOP represents moral values is laughable. The only conclusion one can draw from that ridiculous rhetoric of your above is that blacks are so stupid that they vote for Democrats, who destroy their families and hate their religion. The problem with that is that Nixon was the architect of the “send the ghetto bums a check and be done with them” system welfare as we have known it. Any hope of more sophisticated interventions in “the war on poverty” were systematically destroyed by the Nixon gang.

    And most of the tensions in current American family life – and culture, for that matter – are rooted firmly in the exigencies of capitalism. Allowing the industrial economy to vanish from our shores also has contributed mightily to the economic and social wastelands we see in large chunks of urban, black America. Which, presumably, is the “liberals” fault. Your childish cartoon version of reality won’t wash. It’s all hack slogans that we’ve heard for years – with nothing to back it up. Black people hardly think Democrats are their saviours, but nearly 9 out of 10 of them who act on these issues know the GOP for the “don’t give a damn” bastards they are. Any vestiges of credibility one might ascribe to “Compassionate conservatism” were washed away in New Orleans. Trying to round up homophobic black preachers to do a demogogic dance for the hell-bound hysterics at Focus on the Family won’t turn the tide among black voters. It just proves how shameless and utterly rotten contemporary “conservatism” has become.

    For the record, I have NEVER – even at my most leftist – supported the welfare system as it actually evolved. I’ve always thought it was disastrous to seperate income from work and/or education and that linking AFDC to mothers only was wrong. But any anti-poverty efforts that were more robust were stymied by reactionaries. For one reason, a more effective approach would have cost considerably more. So most liberals settled for less, to their discredit, and handed racists and reactionaries a talking point – despite the fact that conservatives were instrumental in setting the political limits that created the system. They railed against any more expensive or interventionist work, training and community organizing programs.

    Excuse me now. I’ve got to finish my manifesto for the War Against Easter. Any public displays by Christians promoting their belief in the Easter Bunny will not be tolerated.

  25. richard locicero Says:

    Actually he lives in San Francisco Bill and he and the crowd at MYDD (Chris Bowers and Matt Stoller – both of whom have worked for candidates like Mark Warner, Howard Dean, Jon Tester and others) have actually had an impact on real elections. You can disagree with them but this belittling of these folks is getting real old real fast.

    In case you didn’t notice it the Boys and Girls on the Bus are taking notice. Wanted to find out about the Libby Trial? Everyone (and that includes the NYT) went to FIREDOGLAKE for coverage. And tell me, who has been more thorough on the Attorney scandal – or on Abramoff and the Duke-Stir – than Josh Marshall and TALKING POINTS MEMO.

    And on politics I notice that KOS regularly gets contributions from people like Kerry, Tester, Webb, Edwards (both Liz and John) and others. Guess they find it a useful place to practice politics.

    (Course you could be POLITICO and hope that Drudge picks you up. Seems to be their model)

  26. reg Says:

    “Maybe these censorious hyperpartisan frackwits should get lives and do some real political work instead of wasting everybody’s time with these virtual crusades of theirs.”

    Like Bob Schrum…

    Yeah, the professsional political consultant class have served the Democrats so well, I can’t believe that a bunch of upstarts using grass-roots media would have the nerve to think they should be challenged. What a waste of time…

    Was there ever a crusade more “virtual” than the crap generated by the traditional political campaign whores, with their insder ad buy deals and retreaded media strategies ?

  27. reg Says:

    Josh Marshall has pretty much run circles around the traditional journalists – and just about everybody else, including the official outreach and media arms of the Democratic party and traditional liberal organizations – during both the Social Security fight and the current federal attorney scandal. The emergence of TPM and TPMmuckraker is, to my mind, a watershed event in political journalism. Just as the ability of “netroots” to bring a major new campaign finance player – lots of little guys – into play is a watershed event in ground-level politics. Anyone who scoffs at them from the older sanctums of journalism or politics is, to put it mildly, clueless.

  28. richard locicero Says:

    As they say in Congress I would like to revise and extend my remarks.

    Seems that Markos Whats-his-name has worked on campaigns. He consulted for Howard Dean in 2004.

    (maybe you figure that don’t count)

    And YEARLY KOS will be hosting fundraisers for Russ Feingold and Brad Miller. That sure sounds like political activity to me.

    Now as to the CBC and Fox, between 2002 and 2005, they received between $47 – 98K from the Murdochians. Figures are unavailable for 2006.

    Now I’m just asking so don’t accuse me of racism but do you think its possible that some money changed hands to get them to go with FOX and not MSNBC which may have merely offered them airtime?

    Nah! wouldn’t happen!

    (And, no, that was not the money that Willie Jeff was keeping on ice!)

  29. richard locicero Says:

    Yesterday it was suggested that I was wrong to assume that Obama would boycott any debate on FOX because his new pal , Jesse Jackson appears on that station.

    Well I just heard that Jackson has denounced the CBC for agreeing to a debate on a service that, among other things, has called black churchs a “Cult”.

    Money CAN’T BUY you love!

  30. reg Says:

    Wait a minute, rlc. It’s liberals who lampoon black people’s churches and denigrate their families, not reactionary shits like Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity – who claimed that Obama’s Trinity United Church of Christ congregation is a “cult” because they promote “Black Family Values”.

  31. richard locicero Says:

    Right Reg and I’m sure its all liberal racism from the likes of KOS that will keep Obama, Edwards, and others off FOX!

  32. K Nardy Says:

    Reg, I would mind your generalizations. Yesterday, Randi Rhodes did a vastly superior job in covering the Sampson hearings than Judy Woodruff did on the sometimes good PBS News. Biased? Shrill? Yep, also, more accurate and informative.
    For instance, Woodruff (and her liberal side guest) left the viewer with the inaccurate impression that Samson had been unchalleged on the critical point that the White House had correctly reviewed one off the fired Attorneys, and had a weak record on prosacuting immigration violations. This was false and debunked at the hearings, but you never would have known it from watching Woodruff.

    With another story, such a blunder might break pro-liberal (though I must say, I’d be surprised with if it happend with Woodruff), indeed, the nutball obsession Fox News has with puffing up the Sandy Burger story is at least in part provoked by the Dems silence on the subject.

    But most of the time, Air America, Media Matters, even the liberal hating left Pacifca can serve as useful self defence against the MSM and “objective” Refs like our host here.

  33. Randy Paul Says:

    Fox: “We report, you decide.” The thing Left-wingers hate about Fox is summed up in that motto, the idea that You (We) get to decide

    LOL. Fox is America’s Al-Jazeera network

  34. reg Says:

    I can’t listen to Randi Rhodes…she’s completely grating and cringe inducing. Even when she’s conveying good information, I think her “packaging” undermines her credibility. Also, I don’t think she’s either witty or entertaining. If she was, I’d be more than happy to give her a pass. Judy Woodruff, on the other hand, is a used paper bag.

    Those are generalizations I’ll stand by.

  35. Michael Crosby Says:

    I was generally against allowing Fox to direct a debate among Democratic candidates. However, this may be different, depending on the details.

    It has been noted often that one flaw of the primary schedule (up thru 2004) is that the candidates are chosen–or at least drastically reduced–by contests in states with minimal black (or any non-WASP) populations. Having a debate with the agenda focusing on issues deemed important by (probably) black media and policymakers is a very good thing. I’m for it if that would be the effect.

    Democrats can’t systematically ignore black, Hispanic and labor interests and build a coherent political party.

  36. jcummings Says:

    Al Jazeera has higher journalistic standards than just about any broadcast organization I know of.

  37. Ahmed Says:

    “LOL. Fox is America’s Al-Jazeera network”

    Randy Paul sounds as if he is getting his talking points from Fox news. Anyways his stupid one liner demonstrates how insular and ignorant Americans are, on the left and the right, when it comes to the arab world. Al Jazeera earned the scorn of almost all of the autocratic arab dictatorships as well as washington precisely because they offer the full range of views that are out there. As for them being an outlet for say anti semtism, well there is clearly anti semitism in the arab world. If there is anti-Semitism out there, then put it in a context where it becomes an object of argument rather than an unchallengeable given. Same thing for terrorism. In the Arab world different terrorism contendsagainst occupying armies alone (Israel in Lebanon or Palestine; America in Iraq); or against civilians in illegal settlements; or against the foe’s homeland. Along with variant terms: jihad, resistance, martyrdom. In the West, it all gets conflated as terror, and you may want to condemn them all, but I don’t think it hurts to be aware of the profusion. It might help you figure out what is going on. Al Jazeera has being consistently open to a wider variety of views (colin powell, politcal islamists, secularists, israeli officicals et cetera) then you would find on CNN or any other mainstream ameircan outlet. But Randy Paul obviously doesn`t speak arabic nor has he probably watched al jazeera in his life. In the face of such ignorance, it becomes much easier to rely on cheap xenophobia and arab bashing. Ah, american libs

  38. Woody Says:

    Michael Crosby said: Democrats can’t systematically ignore black, Hispanic and labor interests and build a coherent political party.

    Well, Republicans and conservatives are building bridges to identify more with blacks.
    See Fox video on M.C. Rove.

  39. Ahmed Says:

    btw, how come no one on the left complains that Pacifica is not fair and balanced? If it’s a legitimate complaint to make against Fox, why isn’t it a legitimate complaint to make against Pacifica? Just wondering`.

    I`m surprised that Balter, a more serious fellow then Randy, would say something so silly. Obviously both Fox news and Pacifica are biased. This strikes me as pretty vague and banal observation. In fact, we might want to problemalitize the very idea that there exist some sort of neutral unbias out there, as if certain common sense assumptions don`t prevail and go unquestioned in our society. The pursuit of profit at the expense of our collective well being…Thing is there is a huge difference between pacifica and fox. Fox is owned by one of the largest media conglomorate in the entire world. Their perspective is reinforced on a daily level by the dominant power struture in our society. I dont think that its unfair to say that they appeal to the worst of people and prey on their weaknesses. Cheap nationalism, myopia, minortities, arabs, illegal immigrants. They are a profoundly toxic presence. I remember when a poll was done saying that fox viewers were far more likely to believe that Saddam hussein was directly involved in 9 11. The scumbags over there are not interested in political discourse. If you think otherwise you might want to check out Oreilly ìnterview`or jeremy glick or his censorship of sam husseini (`cut his mic`) Amy goodman has never dome that to AIPAC folks or DLC hustlers. There is a huge gap between the power of pacifica and that of fox news. Pacifica is biased, sure, but are representing viewpoints that are maginalized and suppressed. During Israels bombing of Beirut, Amy goodmans show provivded the best coverage of not only the atroacities but also what people were saying on the ground. That isnt to say that Pacifica is above reproach. Or that it isnt at times an echo chamber. But to compare it to fox news is silly

  40. reg Says:

    I think Ahmed stretches it a bit with the argument that al Jazeera has a wider range of views than any mainstream media outlet in the U.S. – although I wouldn’t hold them to that higher standard in order to recognize their value and departure from standard practice among mostly government-controlled networks in the region. The movie Control Room (was that the title) showed al Jazeera to be far more complex and multi-faceted than the Bushies and most mainstream media here generally portray it. I can’t make any ultimate judgement, because I obviously couldn’t understand what the hell was going on even if I watched it, but that doc seemed pretty “fair and balanced” and showed them to be far more than just the usual propaganda that has constituted most “news” in the Arab world where governments tend to have a heavy hand over journalism.

    I don’t hold any brief for Pacifica, but I think Ahmed also makes a good point that whatever one might say about Amy Goodman, she doesn’t engage in the cheap shoutdowns or bullying of guests that O’Reilly and the rest of the FOX crowd use to compensate for their profound ignorance and bigotry.

  41. George Boyle Says:

    ” think Ahmed stretches it a bit with the argument that al Jazeera has a wider range of views than any mainstream media outlet in the U.S. -”

    Bwaaaahhhhaaaa! Gee ya think?

  42. George Boyle Says:

    “Randy Paul sounds as if he is getting his talking points from Fox news.”

    Tee hee. Right. To someone so wahcked off the left charts I suppose. His sin must have been failing the all Palestinian all the time test. Many good liberals can be caught in that trap.

  43. Ahmed Says:

    “The movie Control Room (was that the title) showed al Jazeera to be far more complex and multi-faceted than the Bushies and most mainstream media here generally portray it.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-C-pf6ZPmw

  44. Ahmed Says:

    Yawn. It looks like Yorkster is off his meds again

  45. richard locicero Says:

    I notice that no one is ridiculing the boys from the blogs over their FOX boycott or defending Murdoch’s minions. Maybe Jesse Jackson had an impact or maybe the burden of defending FOX just got to be too much.

    I mean, really, if your criterion now is whether or not they are as biased as Pacifica or whether or not Al Jazzera is “Fair and Balanced” (presumably like FOX) you have given the game away.

    BTW I believe that AJ was started by exBBC World Service Arabic broadcasters and now has an English Language Service with people like Sir David Frost. Sounds suspicious to me!

  46. Fred Beloit Says:

    Ahmed: “The scumbags over there [Fox News] are not interested in political discourse.” Where to begin? First, who wants to engage in political discourse? Someone who calls you a scumbag? No. Someone who offers their facilities to candidates to express their qualifications and ideas? Yes.

  47. reg Says:

    “First, who wants to engage in political discourse? Someone who calls you a scumbag? No.”

    I think Fred is getting the point…

  48. Randy Paul Says:

    Ahmed,

    You’re a bit thin-skinned. My coment was directed at those on the wingnut right who believe that Al-Jazeera signifies the imminent arrival of the apocalypse. Not having watched Al-Jazeera nor having seen Control Room, I personally don’t have much of an opinion about them. My point was to merely claim that Fox serves a function for the right that the right has claimed that Al Jazeera serves for every Arabic government.

    But then I forgot that you and jcummings (words are sabotage) are part of the humorless left. I apologize for any confusion. Some friendly advice:

    Lighten up

  49. Ahmed Says:

    If I conducted a quick poll, my guess is that your attempt at humor elicited few if any laughs. Humorless left you say? I don’t know, it sounds to me like you’re projecting. Nice job weaseling out of something you obviously know next to nothing about. Um, when i said Al Jazeera was equivalent to fox, i really meant what the right wing things of fox…right

  50. Ahmed Says:

    “First, who wants to engage in political discourse? Someone who calls you a scumbag? No.”

    I think Fred is getting the point…

    This on the other hand is funny…

  51. George Boyle Says:

    Yeah complex and multi-facted with a very targeted message. Same MO as FOX. Frontline World did a piece on it this week.

  52. Randy Paul Says:

    Give it a rest, Ahmed. My comment was directed to Jim R. Sometimes one has to dumb things down for those on the reactionary right to understand. That’s the route I chose. I also apologized for any confusion. You’re merely proving my point about humorlessness.

    I don’t comment much about the Middle East, but I’ll give you a thumbnail discussion of my opinions:

    I favor an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel.

    I do not favor the mixing of religion and politics whether it’s Islam, Roman Catholicism, Buddhism, Judaism or Southern Baptism.

    I opposed the Iraq War from Day One and still do.

    I oppose monarchies and dictatorships anywhere in the world, but especially in the Middle East, including “elected” dictatorships such Hosni Mubarak’s.

    I have no use for Ehud Olmert.

    I don’t appreciate the fact that my government spends so much of its foreign aid in the region, in particular as much as it spends with the Mubarak regime.

    I don’t really give a shit what you think about me, but when someone has the courtesy to clarify a misunderstanding and apologize for the misunderstanding, a gentleman accepts it and moves on.

    Again, please lighten up.

  53. jcummings Says:

    Randy, I was being flip about words being sabotage, to get your question out of the way.

    I’m far from humorless – though anyone will acknowledge htat its impossible to read “tone” or “nuance” into language on the internet. So what may be meant as flip or humorous “sabotag” or “AJ = Foxnews etc.” comes out as serious.

    I also think that most good humor is radical. Anarchist Bill Hicks is a little funnier than Dennis Miller, no? I will say that without being “PC” I’m very disaproving of certain ethnic jokes that liberals like Jon Stewart make about Arabs and Muslims. I think its all well and good to have good humored joke-embraces of ethnicities (Eddie Murphy’s Jewish character, Apu on the Simpsons, etc.) but Jon Stewart’s imitation of ululating and the normal everyday flip jokes about the Arab world – like yours – are not funny.

    Borat Sagdiyev? funny.

  54. Randy Paul Says:

    I think its all well and good to have good humored joke-embraces of ethnicities (Eddie Murphy’s Jewish character, Apu on the Simpsons, etc.) but Jon Stewart’s imitation of ululating and the normal everyday flip jokes about the Arab world – like yours – are not funny.

    I was commenting about a news organization, not an ethnic group.

  55. jcummings Says:

    that should be Bill Hicks WAS funnier…

    You know who’s not funny? Penn and Teller. They used to be, until their recent right-wing libertarian politics started springing up in their routines. They had an episode of their television show “Bullshit” in which they use Chomsky as a foil to prove that universities are dominated by the left – which is just “so obvious” to P and T. Who do they use – in his hipster persona that he remembers from hanging with Huey and the boys – for a talking head on academia? David Horowitz.

  56. jcummings Says:

    My point is not that in particular you were joking about an ethnic group – its that by using – as you admit – that level of discourse to appeal to Jim R, who is an open bigot who should be studies, not argued with – you legitimize their attitudes towards Arabs and Muslims.

  57. Randy Paul Says:

    I apologize, btw for calling you humorless.

  58. Randy Paul Says:

    you legitimize their attitudes towards Arabs and Muslims.

    I see your point, but that was certainly not my intention.

  59. richard locicero Says:

    So the CBC and the crew at FOX go into this bar . . .

  60. richard locicero Says:

    To get back to FOX for a minute. If you go over to MYDD you’ll see some interesting stuff on a poll that the “Fair and Balanced” folks are conducting on debates. One questions asks if the person questioned believes that a televised debate could have an effect on the campaign. Fair enough. But then it asks the respondent to judge a series of “anti-Democratic Party” and “Anti-MoveOn” ads that FOX is considering running.

    Excuse me? Since when do legitimate news organizations evaluate ads trashing a party? Or is this a “Push Poll”? And what is that doing there?

    I’m sorry guys, but everyday FOX – like the rest of the Right Wing Noise Machine – is giving the game away.

  61. reg Says:

    rlc has noted this “elsewhere” and it’s been on some other blogs, but check this guy Matthew Dowd’s story out. Officially Bush’s “chief campaign strategist for 2004″, he’s done a major 180′. Times article below…

    http://tinyurl.com/2lovg6

  62. Jim R Says:

    I leave for a day and the mice……

    Ok, I’m back with my fly-swatter.

    I’m against late-term abortions, but JC reminds me there’s times it’s an excellent choice.

    Randy, ?

    Now you bastards have exposed all my character flaws, time for a new user name. Hello………….Steve.

  63. Michael Balter Says:

    I have spent the last day traveling from Paris to Los Angeles and this thread is still going on. New thread please, Marc! What about those Dodgers?

  64. doubled Says:

    Always amazes me that there are those who believe that any news orginization can be objective.
    Wouldn’t that mean reporting every single event in the world , as not reporting a story is in itself a subjective decision , potentially fraught with bias. In addition , no words should be written or spoken as this to could be skewed by bias.
    Unbiased newscasting is a pipe dream.

  65. Hank Quevedo Says:

    Have we made so much progress in the last ten years, that the CBC can sell their constituents out with impunity to those at Fox who would like nothing better than a Back to Africa Movement?

    It is not audacious or brave to take the Black Caucus to Fox…it is perfidy and pandering.

    The CBC needss to fight to silence hate speech, ergo, to silence Fox. Anything less is betrayal!

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